Taking Hewlett-Packard India to Court

[koshyjohn]

Source: http://koshyjohn.com/hp

UPDATE: I won the case. http://www.koshyjohn.com/hp/docs/ccjudgement.doc - judgment copy.

** QUOTING FROM A LETTER TO MARK HURD, CEO & PRESIDENT, HP:
Sir,

A high-end 17" laptop was purchased from HP at Dubai in April 2007. Unfortunately, over the last 14 months, it has been functional for only 5! It has been useless for close to 70% of its life!

HP India refused to service it from September 2007 to February 2008 (6 months). Finally in February, HP allowed us to bring it in for repairs.

Almost every part of the laptop was replaced including the display, keyboard and the motherboard (5 times!). After 3 months of keeping the laptop with them, they finally return the laptop with the wrong motherboard configuration.

Given the extreme nature of the inconvenience caused, a fresh replacement was requested in the beginning of May 2008. It was agreed to in principle but even after 27 calls to customer care over a period of 1 month, all that was achieved was a series of escalations with a huge number of broken promises for a call back (even by the case manager assigned).

All the details of this case are put up at http://www.koshyjohn.com/hp including details pointing to FRAUD which may also be detrimental to HP.

Even a mail to HP India's President Mr. Balu Doraisamy didn't yield any result.

Being a loyal HP customer for over 9 years, this is a very shocking and disappointing experience. We are at a loss of what to do -- short of initiating legal action against HP and publicizing this ordeal. Being provided with a constructive solution would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your valuable time.

** TIMELINE:

1. Purchase and Configuration (April 07)
- Purchase details
- Configuration details
2. Service History (Sept 07 - May 08) - parts replaced
- Sept, 07 - Feb 19, 08
- Feb 19, 08 - Mar 20, 08
- Mar 20, 08 - Apr 17, 08
- Apr 18, 08 - May 07, 08
- FRAUD by HP / Service Center
3. Telephone Support History (May 08 - June 08)
- Re-registering Case
- Escalation
- Case Manager
- Escalation to Singapore
- Mails to HP Executives
- HP India President
- HP CEO & President Mark Hurd
4. Legal History (National Consumer Forum) (June 08 +)
- Contacting NCF
- Contacting HP
- Nortech Executive
- My Settlement Demands
- Legal notice and court case

** Current status

Registered a complaint with the National Consumer Forum in India. I was asked to give HP 10 days to respond to my satisfaction before initiating a court case.

Source: http://koshyjohn.com/hp

Is there anyone here who's been in a similar situation with HP or any other manufacturer? Have you been to consumer court? What are your experiences like?

[MetalheadGautham]

intresting read.
the funny thing is that HP is supposed to be the MOST customer friendly company according to many people.
I know lots of loyal HP Pavillion Fans.

Guess HP too has a dark side.

[gopz]

Are you hoping to get a reply from Mark Hurd?

Better contact the legal division of HP India, and ask them for a brand new laptop and compensation else take it to the courts.

I feel really sorry for you dude.

[victor_rambo]

Excellent move.

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Maybe his grandchildren will get a new lappy by the time the court issues it's verdict !

[naveen_reloaded]

dell is better imo

[theKonqueror]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan Quireshi

Maybe his grandchildren will get a new lappy by the time the court issues it's verdict !

Amen bro...

[adithyagenius]

17" laptops of HP have overheating problems. They can't handle heavy duty applications and games for more than 10 mins without automatically shutting down. It also develops cracks overtime due to heat. Lots of people were trying to planned sue HP went lazy. If you succeed in India, it will be great.
All those people who have to take out their dvd drive just to make sure there is enough ventilation for the HP 17" laptop to extract file for installation without autoshut will feel happy if you succeed. Best of luck!

[W i d e S c r e e N]

I believe with Consumer Forum you will get what u deserve and vice-a..with HP..be patient justice will prevail

[Pat]

All the best buddy! Btw, I think this belongs to Chit Chat!

[koshyjohn]

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

intresting read.
the funny thing is that HP is supposed to be the MOST customer friendly company according to many people.
I know lots of loyal HP Pavillion Fans.

Guess HP too has a dark side.

HP is really customer friendly until the day your laptop really screws up. Their laptops are the best if you never have to make warranty claims. But unfortunately a lot of people seem to be having complaints - you should hear about all the stories I heard from customers while waiting at the customer service center.

Originally Posted by gopz

Are you hoping to get a reply from Mark Hurd?

Better contact the legal division of HP India, and ask them for a brand new laptop and compensation else take it to the courts.

I feel really sorry for you dude.

I did get a reply from Mark Hurd (his aides of course). You haven't visited my site I guess. I've already started walking down the legal road.

I've indicated that I want a laptop costing as much as the original. Such a configuration today would turn out to be: Core 2 Duo T9500 2.60Ghz, Windows Vista Ultimate 64bit, 17" WSXGA+ HD widescreen display, 4GB DDR2 RAM, HP Imprint finish+Webcam+microphone+fingerprint reader, Intel Pro/Wireless 4965AGN with Bluetooth, 640GB 5400rpm (320GBx2) dual hard drive, BluRay ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer

Originally Posted by adithyagenius

17" laptops of HP have overheating problems. They can't handle heavy duty applications and games for more than 10 mins without automatically shutting down. It also develops cracks overtime due to heat. Lots of people were trying to planned sue HP went lazy. If you succeed in India, it will be great.
All those people who have to take out their dvd drive just to make sure there is enough ventilation for the HP 17" laptop to extract file for installation without autoshut will feel happy if you succeed. Best of luck!

All the problems you listed above are fixable. The crack is due to a design defect and HP replaces the affected parts for free sometimes even out of warranty period. If you know anyone suffering those problems, please tell them to visit a service center. Overheating can be fixed by reapplication of the thermal paste and/or replacement of the heat sink.

Originally Posted by Pat

All the best buddy! Btw, I think this belongs to Chit Chat!

If so, could a moderator please transfer this thread? Sorry for the inconvenience.

[gopz]

Why dont you ask for a refund instead of replacement, and try some other brand, this time?

[koshyjohn]

Originally Posted by gopz

Why dont you ask for a refund instead of replacement, and try some other brand, this time?

It's cheaper for them to give me a new notebook and therefore more easier to negotiate out of court. Plus dv9700 series are actually very good notebooks (and HP's service is actually very good in many countries - it's only in India that these things happen - if I was in the US, I'd have got a replacement last year)...

And I forgot to add, I'm asking for a 3 year international warranty for the hassle... If they do agree and delay it much longer, I'll ask for the new dv7t series with the NVIDIA 9600 gfx cards that are releasing internationally this month.

[Jayanth.M.P]

best of luck.....I hope they opt in for a out of court settlement else its going to take years.

[koshyjohn]

Originally Posted by Jayanth.M.P

best of luck.....I hope they opt in for a out of court settlement else its going to take years.

Does the 'years' thing *still* hold for small claims against a solvent company? The way the National Consumer Forum seems to be functioning and advertising it's services, I was thinking of a quicker resolution period of around a year. And in any case, when I win, my settlement demands will ensure that I get whatever is the configuration selling at that time for the original system's price - just in time to replace the less-than-perfect-but-still-functioning laptop they've left with me.

If it really will take a lot of years, it will cost HP a lot in terms of attorney's fees and I will be ensuring bad publicity for them even if it doesn't come by default - because one of the things they've had their hands in is FRAUD.

Whether I win or lose, HP has got to learn it cannot treat customers like this and expect to get away with it. And maybe some other soul will benefit from this situation's outcome in the future.

[narangz]

Originally Posted by koshyjohn

Source: http://koshyjohn.com/hp

** QUOTING FROM A LETTER TO MARK HURD, CEO & PRESIDENT, HP:

Can I have the email addresses of Mark Hurd & HP India president? I would love to give them a piece of my mind.

[koshyjohn]

Originally Posted by narangz

Can I have the email addresses of Mark Hurd & HP India president? I would love to give them a piece of my mind.

Mark Hurd: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/hurd/
Balu Doraisamy: https://h50043.www5.hp.com/formlab/e...5085114_1.aspx

What problems have you faced?

[ax3]

LOL ........ just LOL ......

[tarey_g]

Originally Posted by Jayanth.M.P

best of luck.....I hope they opt in for a out of court settlement else its going to take years.

This is not true , these kind of cases are solved quickly. Thats why its a good idea to file a case in consumer forum.

[narangz]

Originally Posted by koshyjohn

Mark Hurd: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/execteam/email/hurd/
Balu Doraisamy: https://h50043.www5.hp.com/formlab/e...5085114_1.aspx

What problems have you faced?

Thanks!

Well I have a Compaq V3425AU. I bought it about 10 months ago, I guess. The battery is not upto the mark. Sometimes it refuses to work & sometimes it works flawlessly. The display developed dead pixels. Got it replaced twice till date. The laptop gets too hot on summers. My friend who has also the same model has got everything (except motherboard & processor) replaced multiple times. He still is not happy with display, battery, hard disk & DVD writer. A user here at digit forum (Thor) also has the same model & is suffering just like us.

Did the HP India President reply to your mails? Their customer service is very good at making fools out of the customers.

Originally Posted by tarey_g

This is not true , these kind of cases are solved quickly. Thats why its a good idea to file a case in consumer forum.

True. It won't take much time.

[MetalheadGautham]

thats intresting.

Because when I had recently gone laptop (window) shopping, I enquired about some sub 25k notebooks from Acer and Compaq. Both offered similar configurations at the same price, with the difference being that acer offered an extra 40GB disc space compared to compaq. When I asked the dealer for the difference in the two, he said both were the same thing under different hoods. But when I asked about the durability, life, etc, he said compaq is better than acer according to the customer response he got.

[koshyjohn]

Originally Posted by narangz

Thanks!

Well I have a Compaq V3425AU. I bought it about 10 months ago, I guess. The battery is not upto the mark. Sometimes it refuses to work & sometimes it works flawlessly. The display developed dead pixels. Got it replaced twice till date. The laptop gets too hot on summers. My friend who has also the same model has got everything (except motherboard & processor) replaced multiple times. He still is not happy with display, battery, hard disk & DVD writer. A user here at digit forum (Thor) also has the same model & is suffering just like us.

Did the HP India President reply to your mails? Their customer service is very good at making fools out of the customers.

True. It won't take much time.

No, HP India's President didn't bother replying but the worldwide CEO did. Both e-mails are quite useless but you can use both as evidence that you've tried your best to resolve the issue if you go to court.

The notebooks from HP seeing failure rates are as follows:
(MOST FAILURES, least cost) Compaq > HP Home Entertainment > HP Business (LEAST FAILURES, highest cost)
HP Business laptops are very expensive (and honestly don't look very attractive; which is why you rarely find them in stores) but the support you get for them is amazing in the rare chance that they do fail. In the *long run* though, the HP Business laptops are more likely to cost the least. The above is a known fact and I've seen it among my friends and the pattern continues with what you are telling me. Search on the net for problems with business laptops - you won't find much.

VERY IMPORTANT: I *very* strongly recommend that you get your warranty extended to 3 years. It is worth every penny if you are already facing serious problems in the first year - because the parts that they put into your system during repairs are refurbished parts - fixed parts from some other customer's notebook - the cycle repeats with the old parts that are taken from you.

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

thats intresting.

Because when I had recently gone laptop (window) shopping, I enquired about some sub 25k notebooks from Acer and Compaq. Both offered similar configurations at the same price, with the difference being that acer offered an extra 40GB disc space compared to compaq. When I asked the dealer for the difference in the two, he said both were the same thing under different hoods. But when I asked about the durability, life, etc, he said compaq is better than acer according to the customer response he got.

Extra 40GB? The Compaq must have offered 120GB while Acer offered 160GB... I am not familiar with Acer's durability levels but the general opinion I hear is that HP has better quality usually. But that might not be the reason why the dealer gave you that answer. It might be entirely possible that he is getting a better margin of profit from selling the Compaq than the Acer. Face it: at the end of the day the dealer has to make as much money as possible, you are not likely to remember much of what he said if you laptop fails 10 months into its life.

[virus_killer]

I had faced the similar problem once, I own a Compaq Presario V6102AU , and couple of months before i was facing a strange problem. My laptop wasn't starting even if i press the power button, Blue LED comes for a while and then went off after few seconds, wireless was not working either. i talked to HP people and they told me that your laptop is out of warranty period and therefore you will have to pay $140 Dallas just to look up for the problem and they will charge further more if they find any major problem.

I thought i would probably buy the new laptop rather repairing this one. but before buying the new one i was looking for the solution. and then i found one page on HP's website, that they have got some manufacturing defects with the model comes under V6000 model (which i already had). so i called them again and tell the story. they agreed with me and told me that your motherboard will get replaced. and that too for free. i went to their service station and just gave them the reference number which that call center guy had given to me. and thats it. i got the new motherboard. and its working fine now.

In short, i had good experience with HP people, and i hope you will get fair feedback from them.

cheers.

[gcbeldar]

Originally Posted by narangz

Thanks!

Well I have a Compaq V3425AU. I bought it about 10 months ago, I guess. The battery is not upto the mark. Sometimes it refuses to work & sometimes it works flawlessly. The display developed dead pixels. Got it replaced twice till date. The laptop gets too hot on summers. My friend who has also the same model has got everything (except motherboard & processor) replaced multiple times. He still is not happy with display, battery, hard disk & DVD writer. A user here at digit forum (Thor) also has the same model & is suffering just like us.

Did the HP India President reply to your mails? Their customer service is very good at making fools out of the customers.



True. It won't take much time.

Hey all, I am also suffering with V3425AU laptop, CPU temps reads 65C with load it reaches 90C, One some replacement done by HP sevice centre, still temp reads 65C idle and 90C with load.

[phreak0ut]

I had asked Aditya to do the same thing as koshy, but he simply keeps getting parts replaced

[narangz]

Originally Posted by koshyjohn

No, HP India's President didn't bother replying but the worldwide CEO did. Both e-mails are quite useless but you can use both as evidence that you've tried your best to resolve the issue if you go to court.

The notebooks from HP seeing failure rates are as follows:
(MOST FAILURES, least cost) Compaq > HP Home Entertainment > HP Business (LEAST FAILURES, highest cost)
HP Business laptops are very expensive (and honestly don't look very attractive; which is why you rarely find them in stores) but the support you get for them is amazing in the rare chance that they do fail. In the *long run* though, the HP Business laptops are more likely to cost the least. The above is a known fact and I've seen it among my friends and the pattern continues with what you are telling me. Search on the net for problems with business laptops - you won't find much.

VERY IMPORTANT: I *very* strongly recommend that you get your warranty extended to 3 years. It is worth every penny if you are already facing serious problems in the first year - because the parts that they put into your system during repairs are refurbished parts - fixed parts from some other customer's notebook - the cycle repeats with the old parts that are taken from you.

I got an email recently from HP. It was about free warranty extension of certain models. They gave a link in the email for more information regarding that. Here's the link:

https://h50084.www5.hp.com/rd.asp?ID...prek1nJTNEJTNE

Please go through the page & tell me whether I should go for warranty extension as you mentioned? My laptop comes under V3400 series & product number is- GN399PA


Thank you!

[virus_killer]

Originally Posted by narangz

I got an email recently from HP. It was about free warranty extension of certain models. They gave a link in the email for more information regarding that. Here's the link:

https://h50084.www5.hp.com/rd.asp?ID...prek1nJTNEJTNE

Please go through the page & tell me whether I should go for warranty extension as you mentioned? My laptop comes under V3400 series & product number is- GN399PA


Thank you!

My laptop was falling under the same category. and i got my motherboard replaced because it was having most of the symptoms listed on that page.

[koshyjohn]

Originally Posted by gcbeldar

Hey all, I am also suffering with V3425AU laptop, CPU temps reads 65C with load it reaches 90C, One some replacement done by HP sevice centre, still temp reads 65C idle and 90C with load.

65C idle and 90C load is definitely on the higher side. Tell them to replace the heat sink and the thermal paste - sometimes it may come with the processor as part of the package. But don't worry if it comes under warranty. I faced similar problems with this laptop once and they replaced the motherboard and it didn't solve anything. They hit upon the correct solution only in the second attempt. I used to see 74C idle and 100C full load. Now I see only 30 to 40C idle and 55 to 74C full load depending on room temperature - I have a 2Ghz core 2 duo - if you have a slower core 2 duo u should be seeing lower temperatures.

Originally Posted by narangz

I got an email recently from HP. It was about free warranty extension of certain models. They gave a link in the email for more information regarding that. Here's the link:

https://h50084.www5.hp.com/rd.asp?ID...prek1nJTNEJTNE

Please go through the page & tell me whether I should go for warranty extension as you mentioned? My laptop comes under V3400 series & product number is- GN399PA


Thank you!

You better hope that you see those symptoms within 2 years of your laptop's life to get it fixed free of cost. What is mentioned above is a warranty enhancement - it covers only those symptoms listed there and the solution is only replacement of motherboard. A warranty extension, on the other hand, comes as an approx 8k purchase (if bought within the warranty period) or 11k (if bought outside the warranty period) and covers everything except the battery for 2 years more (total 3 yrs on a 1 yr warranty laptop). Remember a hard disk failure will set you back 6k+, motherboard 16k+, keyboard 4k+, etc. so if your laptop is failure prone it is indeed worth it.

[gopz]

Will this work for laptops purchased in the US? My brother has a DV2000 but it was purchased in the US, does anyone know if its still qualified for the motherboard replacement, if it has those symptoms? The warranty is not valid in India, so I have a doubt...

[koshyjohn]

Originally Posted by gopz

Will this work for laptops purchased in the US? My brother has a DV2000 but it was purchased in the US, does anyone know if its still qualified for the motherboard replacement, if it has those symptoms? The warranty is not valid in India, so I have a doubt...

Are you absolutely sure that the warranty is not valid in India? If it says international warranty you can somehow get it covered.

Since what you are talking about is a widespread problem, you should consider contacting HP Customer care in India and asking them about it... If that does not work, contact the support services in the United States...