How Microsoft lost the office file format battle

[Cyrus_the_virus]

When MS announced that SP2 for Office 2007 would support ODF and not OOXML, it suffered defeat at its own hands

By Neil McAllister (InfoWorld) 30/05/2008 11:41:18

Score one for the good guys: Last week, Microsoft announced that not only would Office 2007 Service Pack 2 support the ODF (Open Document Format) standard, but the productivity suite would not offer support for the ISO standard version of Microsoft's own OOXML (Office Open XML) format until its next major version, release date unknown.

The move is sure to please some customers, particularly in government agencies in the US and around the world, who have been clamoring for an open, standards-based document format. For Microsoft, however, it should be seen as nothing less than a defeat, after a protracted and often bitter rivalry between the competing document standards.

How could OOXML have gone so wrong? If we take Microsoft at its word that its goals include greater interoperability and transparency, we can only chalk this disaster up to plain blundering. From its inception, OOXML has been a textbook example of how not to develop an open standard.

There are two main ways to fail at the standards game: You can create software that handles documents in formats for which no true standards exist, or you can create a standard that exists only on paper and in committee, with no reference software implementation. Amazingly, for all its hype and bluster, with OOXML Microsoft has managed to do both.

In the course of researching a recent article on next-generation Web technologies, I was given a firsthand look at how healthy standards processes work. Take, for example, Google's efforts to bring new features to the forthcoming version of the HTML standard. It began with Google Gears, a set of plug-ins that adds new capabilities, including local database storage, to the current generation of Web browsers.

"You can take a look at the HTML 5 proposal that's being actively edited at the moment and you'll see that there's a database API like Gears has a database API," Dion Almaer, a developer advocate at Google, told me. "We very much want this to be part of the Web for everybody to use."

Google is actively involved in the HTML 5 committees at the W3C, where it's helping to draft portions of the standard that reflect the Google Gears capabilities. In turn, as the standard evolves, so too will Gears. Compare that to how Microsoft began with closed, proprietary office file formats, then shoehorned them into XML versions that reflected neither prior art nor industry consensus.

Similarly, Adobe has been working to improve ECMAScript, the standard upon which both ActionScript and JavaScript are based. "Programming 'in the large' has been a problem with untyped languages like JavaScript," says Ed Rowe, director of engineering for the Adobe AIR platform. "That's why Adobe has been working with [ECMA] on ECMAScript 4 ... to introduce concepts that are compatible with building large-scale applications."

In essence, the ActionScript 3 engine found in Flash Player 9 is Adobe's implementation of where it believes ECMAScript is headed. By comparison, Microsoft implemented OOXML and then sent it off to committee, where it has since changed and evolved. Now, although Office 2007 claims to support OOXML, its implementation doesn't meet the published standard.
The key point to recognize is that standardization must be a two-way street. Significantly, both Google Gears and Adobe's ECMAScript engine are open source. As a result, there is transparency and accountability for the standards at the implementation level, not just on paper.

"If you look at standards that have been successful versus ones that haven't, in my view, uniformly it's whether or not they've actually been tested or whether they were just a bunch of vendors in a room trying to work out what to do," says Google's Almaer.

Even ignoring the reported voting irregularities in the OOXML standardization process, it's clear that Microsoft's method simply isn't how it's done. By insisting on unilaterally creating the OOXML draft standard, then implementing it with proprietary, closed-source software, it has defeated the transparency it claims to want every step of the way, virtually dooming itself to failure.

But there's one more point to recognize here. For all its success, HTML and its associated languages are hardly the poster children for standards compliance, either. Internet Explorer isn't the only culprit here; Firefox, Safari, and even Opera have all struggled to implement the published standards exactly. Rather than gloat, however, Microsoft should take this point as a lesson: Drafting and implementing a complex standard file format is very, very difficult. In fact, it's far too difficult for even Microsoft to do on its own.

Here's looking forward to Office 2007 Service Pack 2 and ODF.

Source

[victor_rambo]

Now a days, most of the anti-microsoft news is written by biased people. 1 in 3 linux article propagates that microsoft is bad. Well, it actually isn't so bad as they make it look.

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by rohan_shenoy

Well, it actually isn't so bad as they make it look.

So, you do agree it's bad

[victor_rambo]

Ya, it does have shortcomings, but thats is no reason to badmouth it as 'Winblows' or 'M$aft' or whatever.........For me.........Windows Rocks!

[desiibond]

^^LOL. Linux started supporting FAT file system, did that mean that linux accepted defeat
Linux started developing wine to support designed-for-windows s/w's, did that mean that linux accepted defeat?

MS providing support for OOF and OOXML is not coz they accepted defeat. It's because they want to grab those linux users who are using openoffice etc for open source formats. Remember, they still have 99% desktop OS market share. They need not accept defeat. They will go on and on and on.

[victor_rambo]

Edited :d

[desiibond]

^^Sorry buddy. That lol was for the article. I am strictly against that article.

[sourav123]

Originally Posted by desiibond

^^LOL. Linux started supporting FAT file system, did that mean that linux accepted defeat
Linux started developing wine to support designed-for-windows s/w's, did that mean that linux accepted defeat?

MS providing support for OOF and OOXML is not coz they accepted defeat. It's because they want to grab those linux users who are using openoffice etc for open source formats. Remember, they still have 99% desktop OS market share. They need not accept defeat. They will go on and on and on.

If MS only intends to get those OOo users by supporting ODF, then it should lower the pricing of MS Office. OOs is completely free and why on earth will somebody pay a fortune to get a software which does the same thing as OOo.

I think its bit of an eyewash from MS. Everybody knows what happened during the ISO voting. All horse-trading from MS.

[desiibond]

the same reason why people are paying so much for windows.

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by desiibond

^^LOL. Linux started supporting FAT file system, did that mean that linux accepted defeat
Linux started developing wine to support designed-for-windows s/w's, did that mean that linux accepted defeat?

MS providing support for OOF and OOXML is not coz they accepted defeat. It's because they want to grab those linux users who are using openoffice etc for open source formats. Remember, they still have 99% desktop OS market share. They need not accept defeat. They will go on and on and on.

Mate, the real reason is pretty much the same. They tried to get an ISO for a standard even they themselves could not implement, there is no other standard in the history of technology that doesn't have a working example even after getting intial ISO acceptance.

ODF was implemented because of extreme pressure by MS office users as Microsoft said. They couldn't implement OOXML and pressure was mounting on them by their users to implement an open standard and they had to do ODF.

Even ISO has not released the final document specification within the 30day appeals period which means, no one on earth knows what is the final format that everyone blindly voted for at ISO not even Microsoft knows what changes need to be made. They had to cover this up and take away some attention and they did that by announcing implementation of ODF.

Bill Gates who would kill himself rather than stepping down for competitors. Unless it's desperate, he would have never allowed this to happen. It's a loss for MS anyways because now, lesser people are going to use MS Office as people can use free softwares for their daily Office work and send documents in ODF to anyone in the world as ODF is now being implemented in MS Office. No one needs to stick to MSOffice now just because their client uses it or because your manager cannot open files not created in MSOffice. So, this is not a win situation for Microsoft. After the giant OOXML scandals, they were under pressure for a real form for OOXML which they themselves couldn't implement, and they had to give up something to atleast try to keep the existing users of Office going.

[sourav123]

Originally Posted by desiibond

the same reason why people are paying so much for windows.

One reason for this is Windows comes pre installed with a lot of machines. But its not the same with OOo or MS Office (mostly). Besides OOo runs without a hitch on Windows. Even considering the cost, for an average home user, MS Office costs a fortune. Do you think all those people using MS Office has paid for it? 99% of them are using pirated copies. As MS comes down hard on piracy, they will now switch to OOo. Now MS will kill itself.

Also, for other non profit organisations and governments, it makes sense to go for OOo, to save cost. And indeed this is what most are doing. So, in the end, only the private companies, will be the only ones using MS Office and MS knows that they will expect to have ODF compatibility. So, the announcement.

[praka123]

well, this is NO WAY a biased article.it just says what is reality.

well,reg M$ or M$haft -it is to just show my hate for this monopoly.but not towards poor scapegoats called window$ users

not biased.I dont want to kill anyone for using windows.but want to let them know how better if we move all together to Open Source,Open Standard rather than sticking with a dead horse(vi$ta? )

[gary4gar]

I don't think MS is defeated here. Infact its good that a company listens to demands of its customer and makes changes according to their needs.

A good move IMO, It would help resolve Document Incompatibility prevailing in Industry.

[ax3]

cool ...... finally they have started LOOSING .........

[dheeraj_kumar]

^^ That is not the first. MS has lost several legal battles regarding intellectual laws, and have paid several bil as compensation. I dont have the sources atm, but I think it was CNET where I read about it.

[kumarmohit]

Did someone say MS lost?
I dont think so. Infact they would end up making more moolah by selling more copies of Office 2007 in comparison to what they have been selling until now!

BTW How many people here smell - 'Embrace, Extend... Extinguish'

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by kumarmohit

BTW How many people here smell - 'Embrace, Extend... Extinguish'

I smell... 'Embrace, Extend... Self Destruct'

You see, general public is getting smarter, they are simply not going to start wasting a fortune to make ODF files when the alternate is so easily available for free. It's not what it was 5 years ago. It's different. People have become more knowledgeable and the worthwhile choices have grown considerably.

[iMav]

The article is hilarious, the comments here by some members are without even reading what the article is, the title is sensational to get hits.

[chandru.in]

Originally Posted by desiibond

MS providing support for OOF and OOXML is not coz they accepted defeat.

If MS provided support for both ODF and OOXML, then what you say may be true.

But it said it cannot implement OOXML till 2012. Now that is their acceptance of defeat with OOXML.

[kumarmohit]

Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus

I smell... 'Embrace, Extend... Self Destruct'

You see, general public is getting smarter, they are simply not going to start wasting a fortune to make ODF files when the alternate is so easily available for free. It's not what it was 5 years ago. It's different. People have become more knowledgeable and the worthwhile choices have grown considerably.

Joking???

How many people, who are not into computers even know about open office, leave alone use it?

I agree that ppl are getting smarter but the number of computer users is growing waaay faster in comparison than the number of people getting informed about such things. The Self Destruct' part is high optimism, Going by the realities IMHO this would not happen for atleast next quarter of a century.

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by kumarmohit

Going by the realities IMHO this would not happen for atleast next quarter of a century.

Now, that's optimism. Much more than what I had

[iMav]

I wonder releasing the NTFS patch for Linux was acceptance of defeat by Linux

[victor_rambo]

One thing which I don't like about aggressive OSS supporters is that they leave no opportunity to badmouth Microsoft. Every blog post posts hatred and cons of Microsoft. It looks very petty. I often feel that some bloggers blog not to propagate open source but to vent out their anger at Microsoft. This looks so petty that no average person will consider open source seriously. For them, these OSS guys are 'just a bunch of frustrated fanboys'. MS never badmouths open-source communities, whereas some OSS users just live to badmouth MS.


And about OpenOffice, it is not comparable to MS office. MS office has a great deal of features.

Has anyone seen the way Praka decorates his posts with 'M$haft' or 'winblows'

Remember, every average user, unaware of open source, has a great subconscious feeling of respect to the software he uses, which happens to be a Microsoft product in majority of the cases. He is very happy and satisfied. And one day, he logs on to a forum on to find some people saying that 'Windows is crap'. He will never accept that 'Windows is crap' because Windows has been satisfying him. This is where he develops a defensive attitude towards the fanboys and so whatever these fanboys say will again be subconsciously 'rejected' by the average user. Along with, it also spoils the attitude of that user towards the open source communities. He perceives that open source communities are just a bunch of negative brain washers. There goes down the drain all your effort to propagate open source.

If a linux fanboy comes to me and gives me some Linux OS on a CD/DVD and says 'Windows is crap, try this Linux', I will break that CD/DVD into 2 pieces.

I am a proud, happy and satisfied Windows user. I have nothing against open source. The key reason to being satisfied with a software is that you should know that softwares too have their limitations. You should not expect the world from softwares.

If you guys want to really propagate open source, propagate it on basis of its own merit. If you try to propagate it on basis of Microsoft's demerit, you will face this question without fail: "Will open source products do everything that this paid software doesn't do?".

Saying things like "How Windows lost to Linux or OSS", "Why windows is crap", etc is not going to propel you upwards, it will only push you downwards.

[chandru.in]

Originally Posted by iMav

I wonder releasing the NTFS patch for Linux was acceptance of defeat by Linux

No it was not. Because NTFS just became an addition not that ext series was stopped from development.

But in MS case, they have not only implemented ODF but have also postponed their own so called standard (OOXML).

If they had implemented ODF now and may be planned for OOXML in another say 1 year (as it is newer standard) it would have been fine. But having to break their head till 2012 to implement an XML dump of their current binary format is plain ridiculous and shamefull defeat for OOXML.

[iMav]

^^ they have not postponed, it was on their road map itself, it was for complete addition in the next office release. Office 2007 already has certain OOXML features

Also ODF has been added and OOXML has not been stopped from development. dude you say something for Linux & when the same thing comes to Windows you guys go like, no no aisa thodi hai, woh toh waisa hai

[chandru.in]

Originally Posted by rohan_shenoy

MS never badmouths open-source communities, whereas some OSS users just live to badmouth MS.

Are you new to technology world?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06...x_is_a_cancer/

And in that he speaks absolute non-sense about the GPL. Poor guy!!

Originally Posted by iMav

^^ they have not postponed, it was on their road map itself, it was for complete addition in the next office release. Office 2007 already has certain OOXML features

Also ODF has been added and OOXML has not been stopped from development. dude you say something for Linux & when the same thing comes to Windows you guys go like, no no aisa thodi hai, woh toh waisa hai

You are contradicting yourself, they propagate a standard which they claim is already partially implemented in Office 2K7. Then when time comes to implementing their own so called standard, they say they can't do it till 2012 while they can implement a totally new standard from the scratch within months. Well I understand your struggles to protect the falling giant.

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by iMav

Dude are freaking dumb or blind?

Reported!

Originally Posted by iMav

Dude you are intellect is worse than Cyrus or Praka man.

Reported!

Dude, keep your frustration with Vista inside your pants, don't flame on this thread. Post Reported for flaming.

And as far as abusing me is considered, your hosting account is going to be suspended for 2 days. I hope you read the terms&conditions about verbal abuse.

Originally Posted by rohan_shenoy

MS never badmouths open-source communities, whereas some OSS users just live to badmouth MS.

Wake up!

Originally Posted by rohan_shenoy

Every blog post posts ..............

blah..
blah..
.................., it will only push you downwards.

This is technology news and not chit chat, read the news and move on, if you got something to say about fanboys, create another thread, don't turn this one into one.

I can see that you're taking out your frustration of the blue screen of death that appeared and had to reinstall everything.. well.. carry on.. but not on this thread. Don't forget which section you're posting in.

[victor_rambo]

Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus

And as far as abusing me is considered, your hosting account is going to be suspended for 2 days. I hope you read the terms&conditions about verbal abuse.

Abuse, where did he abuse you? Through a email to your hosting support? or on this forum?

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by rohan_shenoy

Abuse, where did he abuse you? Through a email to your hosting support? or on this forum?

I guess it's better if you can mind your business or atleast answer to what I've quoted to what you said and not answer what I've told anyone else.

[iMav]

Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus

And as far as abusing me is considered, your hosting account is going to be suspended for 2 days. I hope you read the terms&conditions about verbal abuse.

if you want to make this personal be my guest

@Rohan: forget it, I guess I was wrong about certain assumptions previously.