They Criticized Vista. And They Should Know.

[aryayush]

They Criticized Vista. And They Should Know.

By RANDALL STROSS
Published: March 9, 2008

ONE year after the birth of Windows Vista, why do so many Windows XP users still decline to “upgrade”?

Microsoft says high prices have been the deterrent. Last month, the company trimmed prices on retail packages of Vista, trying to entice consumers to overcome their reluctance. In the United States, an XP user can now buy Vista Home Premium for $129.95, instead of $159.95.

An alternative theory, however, is that Vista’s reputation precedes it. XP users have heard too many chilling stories from relatives and friends about Vista upgrades that have gone badly. The graphics chip that couldn’t handle Vista’s whizzy special effects. The long delays as it loaded. The applications that ran at slower speeds. The printers, scanners and other hardware peripherals, which work dandily with XP, that lacked the necessary software, the drivers, to work well with Vista.

Can someone tell me again, why is switching XP for Vista an “upgrade”?

Here’s one story of a Vista upgrade early last year that did not go well. Jon, let’s call him, (bear with me — I’ll reveal his full identity later) upgrades two XP machines to Vista. Then he discovers that his printer, regular scanner and film scanner lack Vista drivers. He has to stick with XP on one machine just so he can continue to use the peripherals.

Did Jon simply have bad luck? Apparently not. When another person, Steven, hears about Jon’s woes, he says drivers are missing in every category — “this is the same across the whole ecosystem.”

Then there’s Mike, who buys a laptop that has a reassuring “Windows Vista Capable” logo affixed. He thinks that he will be able to run Vista in all of its glory, as well as favorite Microsoft programs like Movie Maker. His report: “I personally got burned.” His new laptop — logo or no logo — lacks the necessary graphics chip and can run neither his favorite video-editing software nor anything but a hobbled version of Vista. “I now have a $2,100 e-mail machine,” he says.

It turns out that Mike is clearly not a naïf. He’s Mike Nash, a Microsoft vice president who oversees Windows product management. And Jon, who is dismayed to learn that the drivers he needs don’t exist? That’s Jon A. Shirley, a Microsoft board member and former president and chief operating officer. And Steven, who reports that missing drivers are anything but exceptional, is in a good position to know: he’s Steven Sinofsky, the company’s senior vice president responsible for Windows.

Their remarks come from a stream of internal communications at Microsoft in February 2007, after Vista had been released as a supposedly finished product and customers were paying full retail price. Between the nonexistent drivers and PCs mislabeled as being ready for Vista when they really were not, Vista instantly acquired a reputation at birth: Does Not Play Well With Others.

We usually do not have the opportunity to overhear Microsoft’s most senior executives vent their personal frustrations with Windows. But a lawsuit filed against Microsoft in March 2007 in United States District Court in Seattle has pried loose a packet of internal company documents. The plaintiffs, Dianne Kelley and Kenneth Hansen, bought PCs in late 2006, before Vista’s release, and contend that Microsoft’s “Windows Vista Capable” stickers were misleading when affixed to machines that turned out to be incapable of running the versions of Vista that offered the features Microsoft was marketing as distinctive Vista benefits.

Last month, Judge Marsha A. Pechman granted class-action status to the suit, which is scheduled to go to trial in October. (Microsoft last week appealed the certification decision.)

Anyone who bought a PC that Microsoft labeled “Windows Vista Capable” without also declaring “Premium Capable” is now a party in the suit. The judge also unsealed a cache of 200 e-mail messages and internal reports, covering Microsoft’s discussions of how best to market Vista, beginning in 2005 and extending beyond its introduction in January 2007. The documents incidentally include those accounts of frustrated Vista users in Microsoft’s executive suites. Read more...

[Via The New York Times]


Poor ol' Microsoft and all the hardware partners who get screwed every time Microsoft messes up.

[ray|raven]

Originally Posted by aryayush

Can someone tell me again, why is switching XP for Vista an “upgrade”?

[drgrudge]

A great article - a must read.

But things are not as bad as written. SP 1 will do the damage control - but it's taking a lot of time than we expected.

Personally I like to have XP and apply some VS than going for the Vista (I hate its looks).

[ray|raven]

^ As if paying for the OS wasnt enuf , I gotta pay for an app to change the theme too.
What's next ? Maybe pay for an app to change wallpapers?

[drgrudge]

^^
Eh? Without the need for any app, I can change the looks via VS. It involves patching uxtheme.dll file and then applying it.
http://www.manast.com/2007/04/02/10-...or-windows-xp/

[napster007]

even a idiot know's that he can d'load the vista compatible drivers of the internet. If ur sticking to Xp just cus ur old driver's arn't supported well...thats simply ignorance

[ray|raven]

^ Duh!,I know. I did use Windows XP, albeit for a small amount of time.

But , Why exactly do I have to go and "patch" stuff in an OS that i paid for?
It sure isnt some feature that's gonna put my system at risk.
And arent the windows guys advocating "out-of-the-box-functionality"

Gimme one goddamn reason why MS has to disable themes?

[ring_wraith]

This article made me say one thing... ouch.

Windows Vista is following the sign that says "Complete and irrecoverable failure"

If this continues, I really might have to consider switching to a Mac.

[praka123]

really interesting article.

[gxsaurav]

Originally Posted by aryayush

Here’s one story of a Vista upgrade early last year that did not go well. Jon, let’s call him, (bear with me — I’ll reveal his full identity later) upgrades two XP machines to Vista. Then he discovers that his printer, regular scanner and film scanner lack Vista drivers. He has to stick with XP on one machine just so he can continue to use the peripherals.

Since the hardware manufacturer refuced to release new Vista compatible driver for there old hardware, so that there new hardware can sale...You are blaming Microsoft?

nVidia didn't release proper 100 series forceware drivers for my old FX 5900XT, so is this the fault of Microsoft to bring new technologies to the market.?

His new laptop — logo or no logo — lacks the necessary graphics chip and can run neither his favorite video-editing software nor anything but a hobbled version of Vista. “I now have a $2,100 e-mail machine,” he says.

So it is not the fault of the hardware manufacturer but Microsoft, when MS released in 2002 that Vista will require a graphics card with DX 9 support.

[Gigacore]

Vista sucks, no doubt XP is preferred by most of the users after the release of Vista, major reason: hardware.
Vista will be the primary OS in every PC after the release vienna Coz at that time the hardware can digest Vista, but users can't afford to Vienna

[din]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

Since the hardware manufacturer refuced to release new Vista compatible driver for there old hardware, so that there new hardware can sale...You are blaming Microsoft?

nVidia didn't release proper 100 series forceware drivers for my old FX 5900XT, so is this the fault of Microsoft to bring new technologies to the market.?



So it is not the fault of the hardware manufacturer but Microsoft, when MS released in 2002 that Vista will require a graphics card with DX 9 support.

Sorry, not into a flame war, but I just couldn't control !!!!!

Isn't it the same thing all Lin guys were telling when they were attacked all these days ?

OMG Finally these Lin n Win guys started speaking the same thing

God save Digit Forum

[Cyrus_the_virus]

errr, why is this in the Techonology News section? What kinda news is this? Shouldn't this be in Chit Chat or something?

@arya, being a long standing member here, you should have known better.

[Gigacore]

lol din. whats the fun without a fight in digit forum?

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus

errr, why is this in the Techonology News section? What kinda news is this? Shouldn't this be in Chit Chat or something?

@arya, being a long standing member here, you should have known better.

Frankly, I don't know where to post articles I see online that aren't exactly news but sure are related to technology. I've read each category's title and description and this seems to be the most apt one for this purpose.

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

Since the hardware manufacturer refuced to release new Vista compatible driver for there old hardware, so that there new hardware can sale...You are blaming Microsoft?

nVidia didn't release proper 100 series forceware drivers for my old FX 5900XT, so is this the fault of Microsoft to bring new technologies to the market.?



So it is not the fault of the hardware manufacturer but Microsoft, when MS released in 2002 that Vista will require a graphics card with DX 9 support.

YES, YES, YES, It's Microsoft's fault! What makes you think otherwise?

This is the very thing that distinguishes a company from whether they give a damn about their very own consumers or whether they just care about the money they get from the consumers!

It is the fault of Microsoft to release a product which was being advertised as it could do this, it could do that (which we all now know is just $h1t and the only thing good about it is support for DX10 for games) without making sure that necessary support is available for it to do this and that!

If there is a product which is not expected to do something over the top and having no support for it is understandable but portraying Vista as something so great and capable of doing everything in the world when M$ very well knew it cannot is MICROSOFT's fault! Get this into your head!

How many complain (expect you and other Winboys) that it's Linux's fault for something not being compatible with it! We all know what Linux can do and what's it's capable of and no one is heart broken when they know some of their hardware doesn't work linux (although Linux now has better hardware support than Vista!) But the case of Vista is not like that! It was advertised as something it was simply not capable of doing! and that is M$'s fault!

MS Over-Promised and Under-Delivered! (Makes everyone angry, frustrated and sad)

Linux always Under-Promises and Over-Delivers (Makes anyone happy)

[aditya.shevade]

Originally Posted by ring_wraith

This article made me say one thing... ouch.

Windows Vista is following the sign that says "Complete and irrecoverable failure"

If this continues, I really might have to consider switching to a Mac.

There there.... if you don't like macs then move to Linux. Simple

[mediator]

Originally Posted by Gigacore

Vista sucks, no doubt XP is preferred by most of the users after the release of Vista, major reason: hardware.
Vista will be the primary OS in every PC after the release vienna Coz at that time the hardware can digest Vista, but users can't afford to Vienna

I got a Quad now with 3 gigs of Mem which I think can easily digest 2 instances of VISTA running simultaneously on virtual box on my host werewolf(Fedora). But I have seen and worked on VISTA a lot now. But frankly I agree with @grudge. The looks are pathetic and it works slow on my friends duo core, 2 Gigs Mem lappy. So I guess I wont "upgrade" from Xp to VISTA for my family until and unless forced to.

IMO, XP is far more easy than VISTA which seems to be all cluttered up.

Back then in 2002-03 I guess mine was the latest machine with 2.4 Ghz and having latest windows OS i.e XP. It became bearable after SP2. But with VISTA, first they released late and then SP1 has been released relatively later I guess and it still works slow on fast machines.

[Faun]

Originally Posted by din

Sorry, not into a flame war, but I just couldn't control !!!!!

Isn't it the same thing all Lin guys were telling when they were attacked all these days ?

OMG Finally these Lin n Win guys started speaking the same thing

God save Digit Forum

lol

[anispace]

whats the big fuss about? Vista runs perfectly fine on my 3yr old HP Pavilion Pentium 4 with 1.25GB RAM and a XFX geforce 8400.

No driver issues for anything including the printer. If it doesnt have the driver it downloads it of the internet (if its available from the manufacturer).

I have a licensed WinXP home edition but just wanted to try out Vista. But now i dont feel like going back to XP. Yeah the interface is a little new and some people might take time to adapt but after that its just awesome.
Stability is almost at par with XP even without SP1. Zero BSOD till date.

[din]

@anispace

Consider yourself as very lucky !! I am not against Vista, but I have seen / heard / read a lot of people around the world having issues with Vista and moving back to XP.

[iMav]

Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus

YES, YES, YES, It's Microsoft's fault! What makes you think otherwise?

just goes to show the desparation that u anti-MS guys will go to show Vista and anything MS in bad light .... intel not releasing drivers for vista is MS's fault

[aryayush]

Statements of Windows fanboys that we are supposed to make head or tail out of:

1. Microsoft makes the software, others make the hardware. It is not Microsoft's fault if the hardware guys don't have appropriate support for the software.

2. It is, however, Linux OS' fault if it isn't appropriately supported by the hardware.

3. Apple should sell the software without bundling it with the hardware because as you can see in the first point, that model works so very well.

Madness, I say.

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by iMav

just goes to show the desparation that u anti-MS guys will go to show Vista and anything MS in bad light .... intel not releasing drivers for vista is MS's fault

Read what I said again Winboy. And this time read the whole thing including the justification for the statement, desperation shown not by me, by you by only reading the statement and not the justification for the statement. Get alive

BTW, the bottom line is, Vista is a failure considering what M$ falsely portrayed it to be, and unfortunately I'm not the only person in the world who has that opinion

[gxsaurav]

Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus

YES, YES, YES, It's Microsoft's fault! What makes you think otherwise?

Lolz...desperation at the max.

portraying Vista as something so great and capable of doing everything in the world when M$ very well knew it cannot is MICROSOFT's fault!

What do u do one a computer??? I don't know about you but this is what I do on Windows Vista based new workstation I recently got.

1) Online work such as EMail, browsing etc.

2) My Professional work which includes 3Ds Max, Photoshop CS3, Illustrator CS3, Microsoft Blend & Adobe After effect

3) Games

4) HTPC using Pinnacle PCV Tuner kit for Vista & the supplied PCTV WMC Remote, for TV, Movies, DVDs, VCD, downloaded videos.

5) Music Jukebox. I just connect any friend's Mobile Phone or PMP & WMC plays songs from it automatically either over USB or Bluetooth

6) What else can I do on my PC...hmm, let me know something I can do...

So yeah, we can do whatever we want using Windows Vista.

[NucleusKore]

Nice post Aryayush.

[satyamy]

Recently Upgraded From XP to Vista
Its good and working fine

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

Lolz...desperation at the max.

Already answered, read post#24, why do you winboys make me keep repeating this?

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

So yeah, we can do whatever we want using Windows Vista.

where's the hardware which this conversation is all about?
Once again, @gx's unsuccessful attempt of trying to divert the topic

BTW, if there was something Vista couldn't do for what it portrayed to being able to do, there wouldn't be lawsuits against them about things like Vista capable when it was incapable!

I'm repeating myself once again:
The bottom line is, Vista is a failure considering what M$ falsely portrayed it to be, and unfortunately I'm not the only person in the world who has that opinion

[Hitboxx]

All done guys? If there is more to say just put a note in the post, I got a better section for this supposedly news topic.

[MetalheadGautham]

intresting article.

@grudge: fully agree there. Vista still looks unpolished, but even SP1 is taking its own time.

@raven(regarding first post of yours): talking about paying for changing wallpaper, do you remember that Macintosh was notorious for asking its users to "Pay" to watch videos in Full Screen ? Only quick time pro could view videos in fullscreen, and you had to buy it seperately. But I don't know about the current situation.

Originally Posted by Hitboxx

All done guys? If there is more to say just put a note in the post, I got a better section for this supposedly news topic.

lets put this in the News Club