Opinion column: Why doth thou ignore Asia, O mighty Apple?

[aryayush]

Opinion column: Why doth thou ignore Asia, O mighty Apple?
Posted Jan. 23, ’08, 12:00 PM PT by Aayush Arya

Right off the top, I’ll tell you that this is opinion column is related to Apple’s presence in Asia, or specifically the lack thereof, and the attitude of Indian customers towards the company. If that sounds less than interesting to you, please feel free to skip ahead to the next entry, where you’ll find no mention of Asia, India, or naked dancing tribes. However, if you want a little glimpse into the Indian perspective towards Apple Inc., grab a mug of coffee and make yourself at home—this might take a while.

When I learned that the iPod touch’s January software upgrade can only be purchased through the iTunes Store, my first thought was “what about Indians? What about the residents of all those other countries which do not have the iTunes Store?” An article on CNET Asia by Victor Cheung confirms my suspicions: As of right now, only the residents of twenty-two countries, those that have their own version of the iTunes Store, can buy the iPod touch software upgrade. Read more...

[Via MacUser]


I would love to hear your thoughts on this one.

[lywyre]

I would certainly refrain from buying an Apple product until 3, 5 and 6 happens.

[iMav]

arya u missed an option:

if they made products competent enough

[Charan]

5, 6 . Price should not be a creiterion when buying a quality product. if one has decided to buy a quality product.. he will buy it anyway irrespective of brand or the cost. Yes indian iTunes store is a must and so is indian iTunes gift cards with denominations of 150/250/500/1000. I am already buying music off itunes US store.. its so simple to use with iTunes giftcards.

With Reliance opening the iStore accross the coutry its not hard to find a apple store .

[aryayush]

Do these actually exist? Have you ever been to one? Is there one in New Delhi?

Originally Posted by iMav

arya u missed an option:

if they made products competent enough

It would be weird to have that option for the company that consistently makes the best products in the industry.

[goobimama]

3? Apple has the best customer support in India. Sure they have 'better' support in the US, but compared to any company in India, Apple rules.

[preshit.net]

Obviously I'd go with Options...
1. Slashed the prices by x%.
The prices are hilariously high here, compared to the States. 96K for the MacBookAir ? As Aayush has rightly said, no amount of thinkness will convince one to buy it.

2. Launched an Indian version of the iTunes Store.
Totally. The music industry is hugely popular here. If the current stores can have tracks from here, why can't we have our own iTMS ?

3. Had a functioning Online Store.
Again, Totally. It is so exciting to see the we'll be back soon sign before they launch something

[goobimama]

I'm guessing Bollywood will just die to get on the bandwagon. It's music sales have gone down quite a bit lately.

[nish_higher]

9.i own a macbook pro.apple customer support in india is great.all thats needed is launch itunes,add more outlets and also change those headphones that u bundle with ipod

[aryayush]

Oh, cool! Another Mac user? Check out my PM.

Originally Posted by goobimama

3? Apple has the best customer support in India. Sure they have 'better' support in the US, but compared to any company in India, Apple rules.

Yeah, that's what I said. Compared to the U.S., their customer support practically sucks out here.

Why should we be comparing them to those who are inferior to them and be happy? We want the best too.
____________________________________________

Damn! I wanted to vote for "... stayed just the way they are today" too but accidentally didn't.

[Choto Cheeta]

My Views,

What would you buy ??

Personally, in desktop, I like customization and tweking, but thats for my self only when it comes to business, a system with stable platform which matters the most...

Business Point a View

So in india, as from a business point a view, iMAC is not an option... TFT wont do, price is going pretty high...

• macMINI with better hardware
• Native support for CRT
• Price needs to be down by at -least yes 25 to 30%

To explain, MINI certainly can come with better chipset mobo such as a G965 (GMA x3000 or GMA x3100) or even a grfx card...

I agree I dont have the extesive knowledge as Arya on MAC product but what ever little i read, which suggest MINI is made under power only to push iMAC range

CRT support is must, mini can but with a converter which once again needs user to buy another apple product

Dust really is an issue with TFT in india also the smaller business like ours is still not ready for afforing TFT for all systems

Now about price, for a macMINI (DVD RW) Rs. 41000/- with just one year warrrenty make it 3 years which means another Rs. 6500/- so with 17: CRT and converter for keyboard and input device, it comes at Rs. 54550

Think about it, now the store onwe says, why dont u buy the iMAC as its Rs. 61000/-

for the macMINI the complete package which is now Rs. 54.5k as I see should be around Rs. 30k...

Size is a matter, present mini can never come at that price with its laptop hardware (then again Compaq C702TU with Celeron if can come at Rs. 25200/- then i guess just with C2D 1.86 GHz a mini can come at 30k or 32k), but as I said, in India customer its the price what matters the most so a full desktop is what expected from apple if they want to have a market share

Arya always tells me, that, better things comes with higher price , i agree... but in terms its the software which may better than reguler PC but the hardware is same as what is available local market is the same as apple packs!!!

Personal Use

The notebook range

Hardware config is top end... now doubt about it... but once again its the price which is a factor

I my self is not a high end buyer... and whom i interract with via forums, my blog and locally, I see 55% buyers are not high end either

so there comes our 45 % in which see midrage buys and top end customers... will not going to comment for TOP end customers as in total the % is lower than 5% for whom money doesnt matter

the mid range comes with a idea for a notbook at Rs. 45 to 55k range

So in that, we get a Dell 1520... for apple what comes close to Dell 1520 or dell 1525 or HP DV6516tx is Apple Mac Book Pro 15" which is Rs. Rs. 105000/- (incl all tax) as of last month

"Better stuff comes with higher price"... statement is availd but upto some extend...

Lets build the same config from HP or Dell, which makes up to Rs. 65000/- (incl all tax)

So now the inner hardware is same same product from nvidia or intel or any such,

differnce ??

The Software
The Design
The Screen <<<< May be I am not sure whether actually the screen is better or the software (the OS X) makes it look better

Differnce in price ??

a Cooool Rs. 40k .... upto 10k for me would be justified even may be 15k too, but 40k is really too much

so that 105000 product needs to be at around Rs. 75k to 80k mark that too max...

How about the Highest End

MAC Pro / Pac Book Pro

cant comment to high for me to even think about it

[Charan]

Originally Posted by aryayush

Do these actually exist? Have you ever been to one? Is there one in New Delhi?

I had been to one a few months back, but it was not opened to the public, it was all setup completely with the latest iMacs and Mac Books . But after that I havent visited that store. In bangalore its on MG Road , next to Spencers supermarket. Dono about Delhi.

[goobimama]

@choto: CRTs? Seriously? The price difference between CRT and LCD is negligeable, not to mention they consume more power, and contain a lot more hazardous materials compared to an LCD.

[Choto Cheeta]

Off topic

What is the price of a surf board , u are in goa right so an entry lever board ??

Originally Posted by Goobi

@choto: CRTs? Seriously? The price difference between CRT and LCD is negligeable, not to mention they consume more power, and contain a lot more hazardous materials compared to an LCD.

I understand, you do, but not the market look that sales figure walk in to any store... still the CRT which sales the most... a 17" CRT is Rs. 4100 where as a good 17" TFT would be Rs. 7.5k at lowest with all tax

also people are really destructive in india TFT in public computer in not possible

[goobimama]

What the...! You think Goans are full day on the beach, mingling with the foreigners, drinking Feni and basically pissing their lives away? Anyway, I have no idea how much a surf board would cost, but I do know one thing, stuff is cheaper in the Metros. Mumbai would be much cheaper than Goa for any stuff. I could find out if you want though.

As for CRT vs LCD, my dealer has long since stopped supplying CRTs. I mean one can order specially, but he mainly stocks LCDs. Most people I know don't mind forking out the extra 2-3k for an LCD. Most cybercafe's I've seen have LCDs. One would be really stupid to go in for a CRT these days...

And what's this about Indians being violent while the 'whites' being careful with their things?

[Choto Cheeta]

Originally Posted by goobimama

Most cybercafe's I've seen have LCDs. One would be really stupid to go in for a CRT these days...

Oppss... we have a differnt news

Originally Posted by goobimama

And what's this about Indians being violent while the 'whites' being careful with their things?

may the education has some thing to do with it... here in my place or any place i have been thourgh, i saw people cant show any thing on screen to another one, without touching it

and most of the time its a knowck rather than a touch

lets come back to the point,

Originally Posted by Goobi

I know don't mind forking out the extra 2-3k for an LCD.

OK, supose even we take that as a point, that LCD is all the way, even then too,

I would say a complete MacMini is at 32-33k then (UPS / Input device / Display)...

[aryayush]

@Choto Cheeta,
I agree that they should lower the prices, as is evident by my article, but they should not target the low end of the market, like you want them to.

They will never do that and that's good. Apple has a brand value to maintain. The iMac is the most competitively priced Mac in the line-up, followed by the Mac Mini and Mac Pro. They won't, and shouldn't, slash the prices of these products.

The only Macs that need some rethinking of the price are the MacBooks - all of them - and the accessories.

People who still prefer CRTs or look for notebooks in the range of forties are not potential Apple customers and Apple has no intention to cater for them either. Would BMW ever release a car that costs less than Rs. 10 lac, no matter how much the demand for it? No, they won't.

I don't have a problem with Apple's products being expensive. Like I said, I'm ready to pay a premium for quality. The problem creeps in when they start charging 90K for sub-notebooks, which is too darned expensive even for the high end consumers.

Hope I've made my point clear.


Another point. You're overlooking a lot of points in your comparison which shows the MacBook Air being 40K more expensive than its counterparts. That's a skewed comparison and completely untrue. You're taking the best of Apple and comparing it with the worst in the industry, completely overlooking the advantages of the Apple product and the disadvantages of the adversary. And you're completely overlooking the advantages on the software side of things. It is an unfair comparison.

Originally Posted by Choto Cheeta

I would say a complete MacMini is at 32-33k then (UPS / Input device / Display)...

And that's an excellent price for it.

[Choto Cheeta]

@aryayush

I am yet to even see a MacBook Air so cant really talk on that product....

how ever I have seen and use (though for few days only) Mac Book Pro 15"

I don't have a problem with Apple's products being expensive. Like I said, I'm ready to pay a premium for quality. The problem creeps in when they start charging 90K for sub-notebooks, which is too darned expensive even for the high end consumers.

so just on point to make... I wrote this,

Personal Use

The notebook range

Hardware config is top end... now doubt about it... but once again its the price which is a factor

I my self is not a high end buyer... and whom i interract with via forums, my blog and locally, I see 55% buyers are not high end either

so there comes our 45 % in which see midrage buys and top end customers... will not going to comment for TOP end customers as in total the % is lower than 5% for whom money doesnt matter

the mid range comes with a idea for a notbook at Rs. 45 to 55k range

So in that, we get a Dell 1520... for apple what comes close to Dell 1520 or dell 1525 or HP DV6516tx is Apple Mac Book Pro 15" which is Rs. Rs. 105000/- (incl all tax) as of last month

"Better stuff comes with higher price"... statement is availd but upto some extend...

Lets build the same config from HP or Dell, which makes up to Rs. 65000/- (incl all tax)

So now the inner hardware is same same product from nvidia or intel or any such,

differnce ??

The Software
The Design
The Screen <<<< May be I am not sure whether actually the screen is better or the software (the OS X) makes it look better

Differnce in price ??

a Cooool Rs. 40k .... upto 10k for me would be justified even may be 15k too, but 40k is really too much

so that 105000 product needs to be at around Rs. 75k to 80k mark that too max...

There is a 40k straight differnce in same model (inner hardware) of Dell / HP and Apple

Physical differnce,

The Software
The Design
The Screen <<<< May be I am not sure whether actually the screen is better or the software (the OS X) makes it look better

so personal thought, really i would say, yes design is stylish, software may be better, Screen looks better than Dell / HP (that too i doubt because of the OS X better calibration), that makes me think to pay 10k or may be max at 15k extra but certainly not 40k

[drgrudge]

Always buy Macs from the USA and try to avoid the tax too. Otherwise they're expensive and out of reach for 95% of us.


Apple offers discount on Mac :
1. Back to School offer during Aug/Sep (upto $200 off ; but the person who buys needs to be a student/faculty)
2. Black Friday (upto $100 off; some good deals like the $730 iMac)
3. Refurbished Mac (upto $300 off on new generation Mac ; when I was scouting for my Mac I saw $450 off on an older gen MBP)

Originally Posted by Choto Cheeta

The Screen <<<< May be I am not sure whether actually the screen is better or the software (the OS X) makes it look better

so personal thought, really i would say, yes design is stylish, software may be better, Screen looks better than Dell / HP (that too i doubt because of the OS X better calibration)

Design wise, personally I like Apple and Sony. If only I had not bought Mac, I would've gone for Sony only.

Coming to the screen, I've used Dell for a year and seen all the major companies lappies. In our room only, we have 3 lappies.

MBP's screen wins hands down. I can view from almost any angle. But with Dell/Toshiba/HP/Acer/any other, if you are not viewing from an angle, you can't see what's going on.

Also the screen is LED backlit, unlike other LCDs, so the quality is peeeeerfect. HD movies in my Mac looks stunning.

Originally Posted by Choto Cheeta

Differnce in price ??

a Cooool Rs. 40k .... upto 10k for me would be justified even may be 15k too, but 40k is really too much

It's darn too expensive in India. Get from the USA. I saved Rs 33k and got a free iPod with my Mac. During this black friday, iMac 20" was sold at $730 (Rs 30k).

[Pathik]

The most decently priced Apple product in India is the Macbook. But any sane person would still get the Dell XPS m1530 rather than a 58.4k Macbook.

[preshit.net]

@Choto:
The current gen Mac Minis come with a DVI port, but a DVI - VGA convertor is given alongwith it. No need to buy it separately.

[MetalheadGautham]

if I got MacMini for Rs. 20-25K(the 2GHz version) with a Dual Layer DVD Writer(with DVD RAM support) and lightscribe, I will definitely buy it. Also, if they made their Mouse and Keyboard cheaper, or accepted standard keyboard/mice, I would again think of going the apple way. All this only if they don't forget to include the iLife, OSX Tiger with the box.

If The MacBook 13.3" version was available for 40-45K, I would again concider it instead of other laptops, as it will be a value deal.

Also, If they had an option to buy a product without their software suites like OSX, iLife, iWork, etc, I would be really impressed.

But As none of this will ever happen in India, I choose that option. There is no use bothering about what may be done when it will never be done.

[Gigacore]

nice poll dude.. we can see wat people really think about apple...

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by drgrudge

Always buy Macs from the USA and try to avoid the tax too. Otherwise they're expensive and out of reach for 95% of us.

Can't really do it if you want to buy the iMac or the Mac Pro.

Originally Posted by drgrudge

Also the screen is LED backlit

Uh... your Mac does not have an LED backlit screen.

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

or accepted standard keyboard/mice

All Macs work with standard keyboard and mice. I'm surprised there are people on the Digit forum who do not such a simple fact.

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

OSX Tiger

The name's Leopard. Mac OS X Leopard.

[Choto Cheeta]

@drgrudge

may i go as layman So how much extra are you ready to pay (legal way in India) for a Mac Book Pro 15" compare to Dell / HP same config at Rs. 65k ?

is it 10k or 15k, or are you ready to pay 40k extra i mean what would be an acceptable price for u ??

[goobimama]

Dr's Macbook Pro has an LED backlit. The MBP got it's LED upgrade in June 2007 and has been the same ever since.

[MetalheadGautham]

Originally Posted by aryayush

All Macs work with standard keyboard and mice. I'm surprised there are people on the Digit forum who do not such a simple fact.

The name's Leopard. Mac OS X Leopard.

1. How can I bother remembering the hardware for every indivudual company's hardware?

2. This was the first time I ever mentioned OSX Tiger. Dunno why. Usually I always say leopard... This is as far as I can remember, the first time I mentioned Tiger's existence in text in a forum

And I think Choto Cheeta is currently actively campaigning for the Next version of OSX to be called Cheeta, keeping its big cat naming technique and to give free advertising to him

[goobimama]

The iMac is quite within reach if you ask me. 64k is not as high a price hike as their notebooks. Even the Macbook@55k is a good deal. It would have been excellent if it included that damned DVD writer.

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

1. How can I bother remembering the hardware for every indivudual company's hardware?

It's not a subject of general knowledge. It's common sense. It's not something you need to remember. Every computer that has USB ports can connect to standard keyboards and mice.

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

And I think Choto Cheeta is currently actively campaigning for the Next version of OSX to be called Cheeta, keeping its big cat naming technique and to give free advertising to him

Cheetah is already done.

Originally Posted by goobimama

Dr's Macbook Pro has an LED backlit. The MBP got it's LED upgrade in June 2007 and has been the same ever since.

OIC.

[goobimama]

Dell gives a similar config
(minus)
Mac OS X Leopard
A good display
Good keyboard and trackpad (well, most PC trackpads suck)
It will also be really fat and heavy.
@75k