The Sorry State of the Open Source Today-haan Linux too

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Is a Huge report.An interesting read.esp reg Linux kernel
http://beranger.org/feature/sorryfeature.php
Linux kernel:
http://beranger.org/feature/sorryfeature.php?page=1
GNOME vs Kde
http://beranger.org/feature/sorryfeature.php?page=21

Originally Posted by Foreword

I have been using open source software since the beginning of 1995. It was about Linux (starting with Slackware, after an initial apprenticeship with SLS), then some FreeBSD and NetBSD, to continue with several Linux distributions. What a choice! The future was bright, as the Linux kernel experienced a lot of improvements, the number of the distributions climbed up to the sky, advanced desktop environments appeared, and the StarOffice suite metamorphosed into OpenOffice.org, a very decent alternative to Microsoft Office.

In those times, the possible adoption of Linux or of FreeBSD wasn't hindered by any patent issues: the SCO Group was still living from software, not from lawsuits, nobody was questioning the possible inclusion of Microsoft software patents into the Linux kernel, the restricted multimedia codecs weren't an issue either (what codecs?!), as the desktop was not that multimedia, after all. And Linus Torvalds was living in Helsinki.

We're now more than a decade later than the moment when I judged the open source to have gained a decisive momentum — 1996-1997, when Slackware was the reference, Red Hat was "the other choice", KDE and GNOME were just emerging, Walnut Creek was selling CD-ROMs, and SunSITE mirrors were the home of most of the relevant software. The worst thing that happened was that Yggdrasil Linux died. But the Earth kept spinning.

Ten years ago, Perl was the cherished jewel; now, the gourmets are enjoying Python, the teens are into the PHP-mania, and the most trendy are going Mono. The question is not anymore Emacs or vi?, but SUSE or Ubuntu?

Actually, Linux is now at 15, and Debian Etch was just released. Novell made a deal with Microsoft and no Armageddon followed, so why do I believe that the open source is in a sorry state?

As with many other things in life, gradual changes are never properly noticed, then it comes a day when something like 9/11 or something like Katrina happens, and we're all bewildered: how could this happen? Were we that blind?

We usually are. We're just humans.

1. The kernel and friends, take one
2. The bugs, in the open
3. Our friends, the software patents
4. Devil’s advocate: what if…
5. Detrimental to Linux at large
6. The lost battle of the GPLv3
7. The business model
8. The package management
9. What does it mean to be stable
10. Eye-candy: competing with Vista?
11. The security model
12. Hype vs. real needs
13. Our friends are our foes
14. You can leave your hat on
15. Documentation, at large
16. Fixing bugs by not fixing them at all
17. The Debian kindergarten
18. Freedom and myths
19. The kernel 2.6.20
20. 2.6.16 and 2.4.35: does anyone care?
21. KDE vs. GNOME
22. Alice in BSD-land
23. Shooting yourself in the foot
24. The Awakening
25. Whereto?

What's even amazing is that Someone who can never stop trumpeting the advantages of linux(and admit even one shorcoming of linux) is posting this somewhere else



Full screenshot here:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1215/...718b8209_o.jpg

[iMav]

no wonder he so afraid of windows ... every post first used to be about drm drm drm and now i a m sure it was after reading the sorry state of linux it turned im afraid of ms im afraid of windows

prakash: mummy save me ms is gonna eat my linux
mother: u go eat ur dinner dont be afraid of some 1 eating something else as long as its not u

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Looks like we have some more

[gxsaurav]

one word...chicken ...scared sh1t for not reason

[Stalker]

Originally Posted by iMav

prakash: mummy save me ms is gonna eat my linux
mother: u go eat ur dinner dont be afraid of some 1 eating something else as long as its not u

lol...

[mediator]

Was this thread created for the sole purpose of insulting a fellow member?

Originally Posted by zeeshan

What's even amazing is that Someone who can never stop trumpeting the advantages of linux(and admit even one shorcoming of linux) is posting this somewhere else

We do not need to watch the show of ur immaturity and hear ur comments over someone. If its news then feel free to post. I hope thats not how u treat anyone who says windows is crap and hits a nerve in ur brain!! Grow up!

[iMav]

the news was the purpose rest was lets say a byproduct

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Originally Posted by mediator

Was this thread created for the sole purpose of insulting a fellow member?


We do not need to watch the show of ur immaturity and hear ur comments over someone. If its news then feel free to post. I hope thats not how u treat anyone who says windows is crap and hits a nerve in ur brain!! Grow up!

nah man it's nothin personal , it was just some "taang khichai"

it's only a forum , i may fight with others in thread if i disagree with them but it's only inside threads , outside threads it's like nothing happened

[praka123]

LOL! I dont care.I just posted an article which reviews all facts of Linux and OSS.
the user attitude in this forum is way different than what u find on that forum.there only one M$ fanboy(he is better) is there but he too is understandeable unlike the M$ MV9 fanboy taskforce here.
Most experienced GNU/Linux users take it as a positive critisism that is.
take it as a constructive critisism.the other forum,u dont see M$ fanboys biting and bashing Linux as it is here!U can see things.
Where did i said I am agreeing with all the facts that is provided by the original article author.
As far as BSD kernel is considered,i still believes it is a little more stabler than Linux kernel-this is my opinion
what went wrong with M$ fanboys?but i feel this is inappropriate to quote each and every post of mine from other forums as well
It seems i am started hunted by M$ fanboy task force

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Originally Posted by praka123

As far as BSD kernel is considered,i still believes it is a little more stabler than Linux kernel-this is my opinion

well main yahaan stability ka achaar nahin daalne waala hun

My XP n KUbuntu installations both work perfectly fine and both of them hardly ever crash .

Also , one suggestion , if u want so much stability , go use an RTOS , it is the utmost that you can for in terms of stability .

[praka123]

BOth Linux and other UNIX kernels are much infact way more stabler than NT kernel-uska jo achar jaldi banaane waale hein -thanks to ever growing popularity of BSDs,Linux and even MAC OS X ]
and i try comparing BSD kernel vs Linux kernel which is still a hot debate in FOSS world.=this is a strict comparison of OSS kernels-jo akal ke dushman ho,maashaa! usko jaagdo

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Originally Posted by praka123

BOth Linux and other UNIX kernels are much infact way more stabler than NT kernel-uska jo achar jaldi banaane waale hein -thanks to ever growing popularity of BSDs,Linux and even MAC OS X ]
and i try comparing BSD kernel vs Linux kernel which is still a hot debate in FOSS world.=this is a strict comparison of OSS kernels-jo akal ke dushman ho,maashaa! usko jaagdo

yups , but this debate is valid only in the Server Context(i do follow slashdot , newforge and all Open source blogs) .

On desktop front , Linux and NT kernel are both fine .

[praka123]

Servers running on M$ windows server and Linux/BSD/UNIX Apache-just see the reality-servers running more than a year that is BSD.BSD leads in server market undoubtfully if all u want is stability even Linux too.
go to netcraft.com and see for urself

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=debian.org

^ for debian running Linux kernel


even microsoft.com got dns servers running on linux from akamai.com still very recently.Windows IIS never can compete with UNIX stability.even more the security features of UNIXens which is inherent unlike window$ which needs many 3rd party tools to make it secure,not to say that UNIX is near Virus and malware proof unlike windows and nt series of OS`s.

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Arre Prakash that's what i'm saying , Linux/BSD/UNIX is ahead in Server market and is very stable in server situations that needs extreme stability .

And in case of desktop use NT n Linux kernel both provide adequate stability .

[praka123]

But Windows platform got dreaded Viruses,spywares,trojans,malwares -where lies stability?OK with VIsta for some time u may be getting less viruses.but the OS security portfolio is BAD.
IN UNIX just needs to be careful of the network security aspect which is well been done by netfilter iptables and for security paranoid's there is US military's SELinux(security enhanced Linux)
while for Desktop users,what not apart from gaming(still lags due to support from game companies) which UNIX/Linux doesnot offer-Vista aero got pwned by Compiz-fusion(compiz,beryl) Kde and GNOME can be said way better than the "gaming shell..."-windows .U can get it customized to ur mind.all types of multimedia support available.wht went where wrong or is it another FUD?

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Originally Posted by praka123

But Windows platform got dreaded Viruses,spywares,trojans,malwares -where lies stability?OK with VIsta for some time u may be getting less viruses.but the OS security portfolio is BAD.

Lets' not go into secury issue . Security and Stability r quite distinct .

Also , if user is a wee bit careful he won't get affected .

as a matter of fact , i myself use XP without any Antivirus , but my system is perfectly fine

[it_waaznt_me]

You mean to say that an operating system can be stable without being secure ? or vice versa ..?? Think about it ..

It reminds me of servers getting rebooted by Blaster and Sasser ..

[zyberboy]

Originally Posted by praka123

But Windows platform got dreaded Viruses,spywares,trojans,malwares -where lies stability?

If a user have the ability to use linux distro like ubuntu,the same user can easily stay clear of any viruses, spyware without any AV's in windows. It is true tat if u know ur way windows xp is secure as any other operating system.

[gxsaurav]

Originally Posted by praka123

But Windows platform got dreaded Viruses,spywares,trojans,malwares -where lies stability?OK with VIsta for some time u may be getting less viruses.but the OS security portfolio is BAD.

So, you think with Vista MS has not improved? MS would have solved 95% of the virus problems with locker kernel if it wasen't for Symantec. Vista is much more secure then XP.

IN UNIX just needs to be careful of the network security aspect which is well been done by netfilter iptables

Windows Network Filter in Vista, nope u don't want to read or learn anything. Just want to bash windows.

Vista aero got pwned by Compiz-fusion(compiz,beryl)

Both are GPU accelerated, with Vista Aero having an edge cos it render all the Windows on screen as textures parallel to the monitor screen. So howcome Beryl pwns Aero?

U can get it customized to ur mind.

We have been doing in Windows since ages using registry keys or 3rd party apps. So how come linux is better then Windows in this regard?

all types of multimedia support available.

While Nokia makes bread & Coco Cola makes engine oil . Let me know if I can watch my TiVo recording or MCE Recording of House Season 3 on Linux which is DRM protected.

[iMav]

gx u got house recored ?

[gxsaurav]

Nope, I will get it in few days I suppose.

[iMav]

din if u read this topic im Sorry to go offtopic but whatever

gx u getting the full season or some episodes

[gxsaurav]

Don't know, ask Soura

[infra_red_dude]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

Both are GPU accelerated, with Vista Aero having an edge cos it render all the Windows on screen as textures parallel to the monitor screen. So howcome Beryl pwns Aero?

for the end user, it doesn't matter whether the windows are rendered as textures parallel to the screen or not. it all matters whether its working for him or not. compiz/beryl does everything that aero does and much more. at least in my case compiz definitely pwns aero. i haf an old ati igp. aero refuses to run. but compiz runs flawlessly and smoothly and does much more than aero. i'm happy and thats all that matters!

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

We have been doing in Windows since ages using registry keys or 3rd party apps. So how come linux is better then Windows in this regard?

can u customise an app by compiling it to ur needs? or optimise an app by compiling specifically for ur hardware? both flexibility and performance are key words here. registry keys and 3rd party apps can only do whats already built there. it jus unlocks some useful things. thats not pure customisation.

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

While Nokia makes bread & Coco Cola makes engine oil . Let me know if I can watch my TiVo recording or MCE Recording of House Season 3 on Linux which is DRM protected.

no, it cant'!

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Originally Posted by infra_red_dude

can u customise an app by compiling it to ur needs? or optimise an app by compiling specifically for ur hardware? both flexibility and performance are key words here. registry keys and 3rd party apps can only do whats already built there. it jus unlocks some useful things. thats not pure customisation.

since when did the Joe user start editing code and compiling it to his needs ?

normal user's can't even write a single programm , u expect them to edit the complex code and customize it ?

[infra_red_dude]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan Quireshi

since when did the Joe user start editing code and compiling it to his needs ?

and since when did the average joe start hacking the registry??!!! and nobody here is speaking abt the average joe or how easy is it to customise. plz do read correctly whats posted.

before u jump into the 3rd party apps thing, linux has tweaking tools too and u don't even need to code anything!

[iMav]

actually changing registry keys is far easier as compared to programming and besides there are so manny tweakers for windows available

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Originally Posted by infra_red_dude

and since when did the average joe start hacking the registry??!!! and nobody here is speaking abt the average joe or how easy is it to customise. plz do read correctly whats posted.

before u jump into the 3rd party apps thing, linux has tweaking tools too and u don't even need to code anything!

A normal user cannot hack the registry , but he can simply double-click a .reg file he downloaded from a tweaking site (or got from friend) and that's it , the registry tweak is applied

the same can't be said for editing code .

[gxsaurav]

Originally Posted by infra_red_dude

can u customise an app by compiling it to ur needs? or optimise an app by compiling specifically for ur hardware? both flexibility and performance are key words here

Yes you can.

The recommended Microsoft method for making software for Windows Vista is .net 2.0/3.0. If you follow the Microsoft way then when u make an application for Vista in .net , due to it being native to Vista not only it is fast, but also very slim in file size.

The common runtime for .net 3.0 is already there in Vista which when installed optimises itself according the to the hardware u r using. You don't need compile from source code to optimise for the hardware. You can simply make a basic binary say 80% of the software & then while installing it, optimise the code for it using .net 3.0 runtime to make it 100%. .Net & Vista do this using Native Image Generator or ngen.exe

The method is completely transparent to the user. Just install the software like Paint.net & it will automatically optimise itself during the installation for your computer. Mind you, Paint.net is a quite powerful (not as much as Photoshop) tool for image editing & manipulation weighing only 1.4 MB.

[infra_red_dude]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan Quireshi

A normal user cannot hack the registry , but he can simply double-click a .reg file he downloaded from a tweaking site (or got from friend) and that's it , the registry tweak is applied

the same can't be said for editing code .

lets not talk abt it, coz if u haf to just double click a .reg file in windows then u jus hafta execute a script in linux. scripting is much more powerful and u can perform all kinda tweaks using argumented scripts. so in terms of ease of use, both are equal. i know scripting also exists in windows. but the so called tweaks in linux are basically a set of commands which can be automated by scripts and evoked by jus performing one step of executing them.

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

The common runtime for .net 3.0 is already there in Vista which when installed optimises itself according the to the hardware u r using. You don't need compile from source code to optimise for the hardware. You can simply make a basic binary say 80% of the software & then while installing it, optimise the code for it using .net 3.0 runtime to make it 100%. .Net & Vista do this using Native Image Generator or ngen.exe

oh ok, this is news for me. didn't know abt it. thanks for the update!