Linux leaders plot counterattack on Microsoft

[anandk]

MOUNTAIN VIEW, California (Reuters) - The high priests of free software have congregated at Google Inc. (GOOG.O: Quote, Profile, Research) headquarters this week to debate the future of the movement and face down recent patent threats by Microsoft Corp...

http://www.reuters.com/article/techn...46888520070614

[gxsaurav]

Lolz...they will keep on thinking how to fight MS instead of making better featured products while MS will continue to make money due to better products

[infra_red_dude]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

while MS will continue to make money due to better products

better "advertising"

[sakumar79]

and even just by the fact that it is paid software while those at the meeting make free software...

Arun

[amitava82]

Actually we have done more than just spreading FUD like MS's CEO..

[praka123]

it is M$ who are attacking FOSS with patent warfare isnt it? why again FUDing from M$ fans in da forum
M$ cant do a buy out of Linux and Open Source there u flopped M$ and its kingmakers right from this forum too
M$ can buy apple,but cant buy FOSS and Linux,Lo$ers all the way!I am sure the death of M$FT and Proprietory Softwares are on the hands of TUX and Free/Libre Open Source SOftwares.
Future softwares will be on subscription model,rather than "try u id!ot for 30 days,buy else i am locking" ideology(i know ya ppl go cracking!).Open Source is the way whether u got itching on the butt or what

[gxsaurav]

@ Prakash

Stop talking like an idiot about the death of MS & all that crap, & learn to collaborate with MS instead. If MS technologies can be made available in Linux such as DirectX or DirectShow Engine for videos then it is for the own good of Linux. Tell me after thinking, will there be anything wrong with Linux if MS gives support for it? There won't be & thats why Linspire, Suse & XenderOS are working with MS to bring the best of Windows world to Linux world. By this year end, i am sure even Mandriva will work together.

Linux has tried a lot & can keep on trying. With the current rate of development (GAIM 1.0 to Pidgin 2.0 took many years to come & still not enough features just basic text IM) you can expect yourself that it will take 30 years to beat MS (example). Just being free doesn't matter if Windows does everything for the average Joe & can be pirated.

So stop whining in this forum & start contributing to make Linux a better OS with respect to features,

[infra_red_dude]

yes i agree wid gx. we need each others support in this world. we need to work in collaboration. porting directx to linux will open the lock to the world of gaming. porting other technologies will help in numerous ways. only then can ppl like you, me, gx, arya etc. will be benifitted!

[praka123]

why shud we care about directx in Linux?its just a so called inventory actually opengl needs to be the defacto.
Do u think All Linux users will be thinking of collaborating with dev!l?no way.
M$ is a company which is best in marketing.
get the reality FOSS community in no way are going to embrace M$FT .I know that M$ will be contacting most distro vendors with the FUD game.
M$ sure is worried about Linux marketshare.that may be the pioneer reason for latest patent infringement FUD.
and no lessons please,on Mr.Nice M$FT.knows the history of M$FT and its SCOing and patent warfare on Linux.leave it.

Microsoft has been scanning the horizon to ensure that no one begins to kick at the blocks that prop up their monopoly. They are constantly looking for new ways to create more blocks. Some of these blocks are directx, drm, application/windows APIs, network interoperability (or the lack thereof), WGA/WGN lie, FUD, patents. Writing for OpenGL means you are writing for multiple platforms which gives a greater overall share.

Another new block is DRM. Yes they have had DRM in their product in one fashion or another for decades--copy protection on software back in the 80s, activation keys in the 90s. The WGN/WGA lie in the 00's is a psychological game meant to make the consumer less in control but to give them a feeling they are being protected. They are essentially forcing the consumer to allow Microsoft to spy on them under the guise of protecting the consumer from organized pirating--this is the fundamental lie. The average consumer is already covered because they generally purchase from the likes of Dell, Gateway, etc. Only a small percentage of sales are from systems integrators and the odds of getting one that is dishonest is even more minuscule. Today it is the essential arm-twisting/drafting of the hardware manufacturers to comply with their draconian DRM/CRM procedures.

Their APIs, not just DirectX, are also locking blocks, that block you from other platform development. Most companies don't have the time to learn multiple platform APIs in order to develop software. Apple recognized this (well NeXt computers did) when they were creating their development tools. Another block they use today are patents. Microsoft is not making a patent portfolio to protect itself, it is making it to prop up the monopoly and to attack competitors such as Linux. Software APIs for productivity applications aren't the barrier they once were. You can see that they will, over time, become less and less important as more and more programs build up for the competitor's platform. Since that form is diminishing there must be other ways for Microsoft to lock you into their platform. Gaming is a key API that they can change regularly. If they can keep changing the gaming API regularly then no entity can conceivably create a 100% compatible layer for other platforms. That's another reason why it is just silly to have game developers writing for directx instead of for OpenGL.

Networking interoperability is another key block that Microsoft uses to block migration from Windows to other platforms. If the interoperability is difficult or impossible even over the short term, large, medium, and small companies will very likely decline migration to Linux (or even OSX).

Patents and FUD seem to go hand in hand. Microsoft knows that if they say enough negative about Linux and threaten enough that migration will be slowed. If they create enough of a patent portfolio that will also slow development as competitors are constantly attempting to figure out what they can legally do and what they can't. DRM is similar in that it can't be copied and used in competitors platforms. The DMCA destroys all hope of that, at least if the user wants to stay 100% legal.

I don't know what the current installed base of Linux is and I'm sure most developers don't either. My estimate is that it is somewhere between 10 and 50 million computers.

When you use all of these together, including FUD and attempting to hide the sheer number of Linux (or any competitors true numbers) you can see how strong these blocks are. It only takes companies and individuals to start knocking more of these blocks out faster to bring down the monopoly. It isn't just having a product or even advertising your product or even giving it away for free. It is in ensuring that the right technologies are used and that enough blocks are kicked out that are supporting that monopoly.

Microsoft is scared shitless over this. They have huge monetary investments that rely on their Windows monopoly to fund them. Microsoft has no intention of getting rid of DRM. They only want to make it so that their major competitor in the arena of music is chopped down. Apple hold the market with the iPod and iTunes because of that DRM and if Microsoft can get everyone buying their products instead of Apple's knowing that they aren't locked in Microsoft can exert much greater advertising in order to overcome Apple's lead--not necessarily overnight but in much shorter order. Everyone knows DRM is a locking mechanism. You have an iPod you are stuck with it if you purchase music from Apple's store. That's a great thing for Apple. It is a highly negative thing for Microsoft. Once Microsoft takes over the digital music market then DRM will be back, in some devious way, a way they are planning for right now.

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.p...1&cid=18696149
Red Hat's wonderful Truth Happens video ends with the famous Mohandas Gandhi quote, "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." It's exactly right.

[gxsaurav]

why shud we care about directx in Linux?

Because DirectX is the defacto gaming standerd out there, whether u admit it or not. Posting it to linux will just help the developers cater to a big market. Now don't tell me you don't want some good features on Linux & want to stay forever with a less features OS.

Its just a so called inventory actually opengl needs to be the defacto.

Nothing is de-facto, it all depends on what the developers wants to use for his game engine. OpenGL rocks in Workstations, & why should it be made de-facto? R U afraid of some superb competition from DirectX or you can't face it?

Do u think All Linux users will be thinking of collaborating with dev!l?no way.
M$ is a company which is best in marketing.

Marketing there products which are much easier to use, has maximum number of features, 3rd party hardware & software support, so yeah....Linux should collaborate.

get the reality FOSS community in no way are going to embrace M$FT

Then FOSS is stupid & ignorant just like u r. If MS can license there technologies at a modest price then paid Linux distro's like Mandrive & Suse should really come forward

I know that M$ will be contacting most distro vendors with the FUD game.

Lolz...if Linux is so better then why r u afraid of MS Spreading FUD, why do u care if in the end your product is good (According to u)

[praka123]

I just cant talk to some fanboys who simply got their brains devoted to M$.leave me!Microsoft is a company which wants to kill all it's competitors.they do succeded it with any nasty ways they can.but their good honeymoon came to an end when facing with an open community.there they are using teh Fear,Uncertainity and Doubt card.MS patent warfare is expected as the company is relying on their so called "better OS" Windows market.but with Vista's terrible low sales,M$ frustrated -the truth that is.
Did u in ur good mind ever wants to install an OS which contains DRM,whatever be the reason?
lxer.com got
A Brief History of Microsoft FUD

This time it's patents that will ensure the downfall of GNU/Linux and with it, the entire world of open source. But before hanging up your certified geek propeller-hat and retraining as a dental hygienist, you might want to consider the following brief history of Microsoft's use of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) as a weapon against GNU/Linux. You've got to hand it to him: Steve Ballmer is a master of innuendo. In a recent interview, published in Forbes, he manages to say nothing and threaten everything:

Well, I think there are experts who claim Linux violates our intellectual property. I'm not going to comment. But to the degree that that's the case, of course we owe it to our shareholders to have a strategy.

So, this time it's patents that will ensure the downfall of GNU/Linux and with it, the entire world of open source. But before hanging up your certified geek propeller-hat and retraining as a dental hygienist, you might want to consider the following brief history of Microsoft's use of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) as a weapon against GNU/Linux. It's a story that goes back nearly a decade, and one that has evolved through various stages of corporate denial.
1997: It's not a threat
When I was writing a feature about GNU/Linux for Wired magazine, I contacted Microsoft to find out their views on this new rival. At that time, they were so laid back about it, they were nearly falling over. In fact, GNU/Linux was such a negligible threat, they couldn't be bothered coming up with even a mild bit of FUD for me. They just said: "We have a very talented team of developers making sure NT is the most powerful, flexible, and easy-to-use operating system.”
1999: It's not very powerful
By 1999, Microsoft's position that GNU/Linux wasn't a threat was no longer tenable. Articles started appearing in the technical press that not only dared to compare GNU/Linux with Microsoft's flagship Windows NT, but actually found it better. One, in a Ziff-Davis title called Sm@rt Reseller, for example, stated: “According the ZDLabs' results, each of the commercial Linux releases ate NT's lunch”.
But help was at hand. In April 1999, a performance testing company called Mindcraft issued a press release headed “Mindcraft study shows Windows NT server outperforms Linux”. It then emerged that Mindcraft had been commissioned by Microsoft to carry out the study – the first, but not the last time it would adopt this tactic. A fierce argument between Mindcraft and the open source community ensued about whether the tests had been fair, and how to make them fairer.
In fact, the end results of the re-run was not completely favorable to GNU/Linux, but something rather interesting happened. The open source community took the failures and used them to improve GNU/Linux to the point where it was indeed more powerful than Windows. By finding and drawing attention to free software's weak spots, Microsoft actually made it stronger.
2001: It's not very nice
In the face of the Mindcraft fiasco, and the growing strength of GNU/Linux, Microsoft changed tack. Steve Ballmer was wheeled out to bad-mouth the opposition, as only he can. In 2000, he said: “Linux sort of springs organically from the earth. And it had, you know, the characteristics of communism that people love so very, very much about it.” In 2001, talking to the Chicago Sun-Times, he expressed himself even more forcefully: “Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches.”
Powerful stuff. Unfortunately for the FUDmeisters at Microsoft, this kind of name-calling didn't go down too well with its intended audience. Even Microsoft's own research showed this, as revealed in one of the entertaining Halloween memos leaked to Eric Raymond.
2002: It's not very cheap
Once again, a massive change of tactics was required. Having failed to convince people that free software was either broken or bad, Microsoft decided to “prove” that it actually cost more to use than Windows – the famous TCO, or Total Cost of Ownership, studies. To achieve this, it drew on the “facts” to be found in a number of white papers from various analysts, all of which, by an amazing coincidence, came up with the result that running GNU/Linux was indeed more expensive than using Windows.
But it didn't take long for this story to unravel like all the others. First, it was not always clear whether Microsoft had commissioned the white papers that it liked to cite, or whether they were truly independent. This naturally tended to cast doubts on even those that were produced without Microsoft's input. Just as seriously, the TCO methodologies were often completely valueless, involving estimates of costs several years into the future, or the results were presented in a skewed fashion. When this became clear, people felt that they were being duped by Microsoft, and tended to discount the whole exercise.
The final nail in the coffin of this ironically-named “Get The Facts” campaign from Microsoft is the recent appearance of yet another white paper, which provided cast-iron evidence that GNU/Linux's TCO was actually better than that of Windows (well, as cast-iron as any of these white papers ever are). It is no coincidence that this one was not commissioned by Microsoft, but by the Open Source Development Labs, who were showing that they could fight fire with fire.
2003: It's not legal 1.0
Since GNU/Linux could not be bested either technologically, morally or economically, Microsoft was forced to resort to the law. It chose to provide both direct and indirect support to SCO at a time when the latter had brought a lawsuit against IBM that – purely coincidentally – had begun to sow doubt in the minds of some people about the legality of the code in GNU/Linux.
In many ways, this was the perfect FUD, since it didn't even originate from Microsoft. But to the company's chagrin, the SCO case has gone nowhere. All the bluster at the beginning has evaporated, leaving behind some increasingly annoyed judges.
2006: It's not legal 2.0
Since the indirect legal FUD failed, Microsoft has taken the last, desperate option it has available: to begin direct legal FUD. Hence Ballmer's cunningly veiled threats: he's not saying Microsoft will sue somebody in the GNU/Linux world over possible violations of intellectual property, it's just something that, well, he owes it to his shareholders (like Bill Gates and himself, presumably) to consider. But if Microsoft's track-record in the FUD stakes is anything to go by, it's not going to work – not least because it will pit Microsoft's Goliath against the David of GNU/Linux, in front of a crowd that always roots for the underdog.
Ballmer's comments do indicate, however, that Microsoft has reached the end-game as far as FUD is concerned. After patents, there is nothing it hasn't already tried. So what will Microsoft do then? Simple: lose.

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/57261/index.html

A cross section of the Linux community signaled last week that it's time to get back to work on the open source operating system and move past Microsoft's patent deals and claims of infringement. Lawyers can quibble, but it's up to the community to expand the system's capabilities and maintain its momentum.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=199904892

[techtronic]

Its not only Microsoft that likes to kill its competitors praka123.
Take Adobe for example, the primary reason why it "acquired" Macromedia was its inability to have any progress in the world of Flash and Animation.

This is what they call in business and management as MARKETING STRATEGY
"If you can't outsell your opponent, buy him instead"

And by the way, When will this hatred end ?
There should be healthy competition to prevent monopoly and I am glad MS is getting a stiff competition from our Tux Friends

Talk with a free mind
cheers

[gxsaurav]

Prakash speaks like MS came to his home & vandalised his room for Using Linux

Originally Posted by praka123

I just cant talk to some fanboys who simply got their brains devoted to M$.leave me!Microsoft is a company which wants to kill all it's competitors.

Each & every company wants to do that, this is how the business model works dude. Each & every company out there wants to be the market leader. If Linux was the de-facto standard then I have no problem is assuming that SuSe must have been out there to kill Linspire etc.

their good honeymoon came to an end when facing with an open community.there they are using teh Fear,Uncertainity and Doubt card.MS patent warfare is expected as the company is relying on their so called "better OS" Windows market.but with Vista's terrible low sales,M$ frustrated -the truth that is.

Where did u get your stats from :d .Kangal bank of USA kya

Vista made more then 20 billions in just 100 days of its release.

Did u in ur good mind ever wants to install an OS which contains DRM,whatever be the reason?

DRM, oh you mean the restriction technology used for HD DVD & Blue Ray Disks which MS was forced to include due to MPAA & RIAA in Windows, which also doesn't affect the non-DRM files out there & just HD-DVD & Blue Ray disks, which in turn enables us to play any content be it envrypted HD or CableCARD ready unlike Linux which still has to see a HD Content Media Player.

Yup, I don't mind cos I am not affected with DRM here

[mehulved]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

Prakash speaks like MS came to his home & tormented his room for Using Linux

This gotta be news. Even rooms are tormented now?

[QwertyManiac]

Originally Posted by mehulved

This gotta be news. Even rooms are tormented now?

Yes! Especially if the rooms have furniture, like sofa

[gxsaurav]

Lolz...with so much fanboyism in a room, obviously the room feels the pain

"Vandalised" would have been a better verbal term here.

[praka123]

It seems M$ guys wants to "monopolize" my room .

[sachin_kothari]

having experience of using both windows and linux i would say that no OS is perfect.
i need the best of both world and if this can happen by collaboration (i dont care about other intentions) them i am game for it. i will use what benefits me most whether pirated or free.

[gxsaurav]

Theoretically you room already has a monopoly of your existence.

[blackpearl]

Whatever you say guys, the fact remains that Windows is more popular inspite of being a paid product. Instead wasting time plotting against MS, the open source guys should spend their time developing useful and user friendly products. Just think, after so many years they couldn't come up with a decent application installer.

There are currently 3 options in the OS market:
Windows - paid
Mac - paid
Linux - free

You might imagine that everybody would jump at the free Linux, but that isn't so. Have you ever thought WHY?? Go back to your room and think of it, why?? Why do people fish out hundreds of dollars to obtain Windows instead of free Linux if its bad? People would rather pirate Windows then use the legally free Linux.

Actually I'm not against Linux but it amuses me when people say such stupid things like Linux will kill windows and that sort.

[Sykora]

Originally Posted by blackpearl

Just think, after so many years they couldn't come up with a decent application installer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullsof...Install_System

AFAIK, it is the most used project on sourceforge, correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by blackpearl

You might imagine that everybody would jump at the free Linux, but that isn't so. Have you ever thought WHY??

Not everyone is as informed as you are. The more informed are indeed switching to linux, expecially after Ubuntu.

Originally Posted by blackpearl

Actually I'm not against Linux but it amuses me when people say such stupid things like Linux will kill windows and that sort.

Actually, I'm not against Windows but it amuses me when people say things like :

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

...MS will continue to make money due to better products.

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

The most important thing is , that most Open Source software developers work as full-time(or part-time) PAID developers in software firms . thus if there wasn't paid software then these developer's wouldn't be making their living and churning out FOSS .

[QwertyManiac]

Gone are the days of Browser Wars, its big time OS Wars now. And soon who knows what, maybe Cabinet color wars. We got to name threads like these, something like the use of LOLOS language.

Microsoft throws blank threats at the OSS community, and you expect them to sit quiet? I'd love to see MS get legally owned by them.

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

i think that's LOLCODE

[QwertyManiac]

No, that's for code, I was talking OS. Like you always do these days, obsessed.

[mehulved]

Originally Posted by Zeeshan Quireshi

The most important thing is , that most Open Source software developers work as full-time(or part-time) PAID developers in software firms . thus if there wasn't paid software then these developer's wouldn't be making their living and churning out FOSS .

Ever saw the reality? Why are big firms ready to pump money into FOSS. I wonder how much you even know of FOSS.

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

Lolz...they will keep on thinking how to fight MS instead of making better featured products while MS will continue to make money due to better products

It's MS and the monkeyboy who started the circus err i mean attack by accusing linux of patent violation and threatening to sue. Which, BTW, they never do.
So, get your facts straight before you open your trap.
And yeah, someone mentioned better features?

[gxsaurav]

Originally Posted by mehulved

Ever saw the reality? Why are big firms ready to pump money into FOSS. I wonder how much you even know of FOSS.

I guess you don't know that the primary reason for any money making company to go open source is to cut developement & research cost. This is the same thing Apple is doing by taking the KHTML engine. KDE Developes it while Apple uses it gives so less back in the form of Webki.

And yeah, someone mentioned better features?

Yup, lods of better features like...multimedia, HD DVD, Blue Ray etc etc etc

[eddie]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

...HD DVD, Blue Ray etc etc etc

How many have you seen on your Windows Vista PC? Can we have a list?

[gxsaurav]

He asked for features, I just listed those.

[eddie]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

He asked for features, I just listed those.

LOL! Yeah "features". Actually it was my fault. I forgot that there are people in this world who would pay for something that they can't even use. They are features alright...carry on