Don't be surprised if Apple TV turns out to be the next big thing for Apple.

[aryayush]

Hello!

I think most people would agree with me when I say this that the Apple TV is a very simple and highly under powered device. It has extremely huge potential but for reasons unknown, Apple has sqashed it all and made the device a very basic way to get limited content from your computer to your TV. Yes, it is the simplest way to do it and has a beautiful interface to go along, but for the extremely limited set of things it does, it should have been a lot cheaper.

But, of course, Apple couldn't have made it cheaper because it is not just a set-top box. Under the hood, it is a computer running a fairly full fledged version of Mac OS X, the world's most advanced operating system. It ships complete with a processor, hard drive, motherboard, USB ports, Wi-fi, etc.

This brings us back to the problem of its being under-powered. So it is logical to surmise that if it were somehow possible to make the Apple TV do a lot more than it is capable of in its out-of-the-box state, but still retain its simplicity for those who are technologically challenged - it would strike a cord with a large number of consumers.

Turns out, this has already started happening. Since the Apple TV runs on a variation of OS X and is a full-fledged computer under the hood, it is infinitely hackable. As of this writing, the Apple TV already runs with standard television sets, the hard drive can be upgraded to facilitate a larger one and it can be controlled with the television remote. But the real improvements, the ones that can also be done by regular users of the machine, have been achieved on the software side.

Apple TV can run VLC media player which basically means that it can play just about every multimedia format out there. You can enable SSH and AFP, which are already present in the system, so that you can control it remotely. You can run Apache on it, though it sounds downright useless to turn your Apple TV into a web server. It is now possible to boot your Apple TV from an external USB drive. You can even run Joost, allowing you to get your TV shows onto the machine without needing to purchase them from the iTunes Store. I am sure that Miro (formerly known as Democracy Player) will soon be running on the Apple TV as well allowing you to get all sorts of video content through the BitTorrent network. There is a plug-in that allows the Apple TV to play non-iTunes content so you can store your media directly onto the hard drive and play them on the TV without the need to convert and import them into iTunes. And the latest development is that the Apple TV now has full support for external USB devices.

The best thing about these software hacks is that most of them do not even make you void your warranty. It has hardly been a month since the Apple TV was launched and it is doing a lot more than it was intended to already. It seems only a matter of time that Apple will also jump into the fray with software and firmware updates that could take the Apple TV above and beyond what it is capable of doing today.

Apple, like most other companies, suffers from the problem that the first generation of any product line is generally severely flawed. So it is hardly a strect to predict that the second generation of the Apple TV will be a lot better than its predecessor. But even right now, it is a very powerful machine that is very simple for people who want to get things done without any fuss, and is a veritable haven for those who are into all sorts of geekery and want to juice out every last drop of functionality out of the small box. Once these hacks are refined and made to work with perfection, the Apple TV will gain a lot more patrons and might start flying off the shelves, if the humungous amount of interest in the product even in its default state is any indication.

Taking all this into account, don't be surprised if it turns out that Apple purposely crammed in OS X into the device and made it very easy to open it up and mess with the hardware. This way, they have made sure than the Apple TV is a simple device that just works and also that the huge potential of the mahine does not remain untapped. The way I see it, the sky is the limit and the future is only brighter.

Please let me know your opinions.

Update: Apple TV can now be hacked to run the full fledged version of Mac OS X.

I voted for the fifth option (actually i wanted to vote for the third)

[aryayush]

Yeah, I sort of expect the third and fifth one to be the most popular options.

[gxsaurav]

So many limitations & average joe won't hack it anyway. Why can't Apple just open up? Whats the problem in playing any video?

[aryayush]

"average joe" would also like a simple way to get things done.

You should read this: The trouble with gee-whiz gadgets

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

yeah , but "average joe" would have a hard time playing an unsupported format

[aryayush]

How many formats does an iPod play? Fewer than the Apple TV.

Strange, I don't see many people complaining.

[eddie]

^ iPod plays MP3 (most popular format). Apple TV does not play Xvid/Divx (most popular format) files.

[aryayush]

OK, point.

But that is what my opinion piece was about. People who want to play everything will soon learn about these hacks and will install VLC media player on their box. As time goes by, these hacks will mature and become more and more easy to implement.
That is what I am saying. It has the potential to be a so so product, but it also has the potential to really take off in the market in a big way.

[gxsaurav]

In other news, AppleTV is rejecting hacks

[eddie]

Originally Posted by aryayush

But that is what my opinion piece was about. People who want to play everything will soon learn about these hacks and will install VLC media player on their box.

How many people do you think buy a good product and then hack through it to get what they want out of it? If people loved hacking to get things done, Linux would have replaced Windows on Desktops long time ago. You see people cribbing about installing codecs on Linux in a "tech forum"...that should give you a picture of the common users out there.

[aryayush]

Apple TV is now running the full fledged installation of Mac OS X. As I was saying, it was only a matter of time.

It is now the cheapest Mac that has a lot more extensibility than your normal Mac, except the Power Mac. This little thing has absolutely immense potential.

[nepcker]

I think the real Mac Nano is the iPhone .. runs OS X.

Anyway, I voted for the first. (Though I'm not going to buy it now!)

[FatBeing]

This is not a Fight Club topic. This is news.

Turning it into a fight will result in the usual consequences.

[aryayush]

News update

Apple TV now comes with a 160 GB hard drive and supports YouTube.


Steve Jobs also said that the iTunes Store will soon start selling HD content.

Cool. I might actually even want to buy one now if I ever buy an HDTV.

[goobimama]

Honestly speaking, this thing is worth it for people who have no idea about technology. For those who know how to do configurations and tweaking, one should look somewhere else, cause there are much more functional options out there only very difficult to use.

I don't think one can dare trying to decode a 1080p mkv HDrip on one of these...

[aryayush]

Yeah, it doesn't actually play high definition content... yet...

[gxsaurav]

Originally Posted by goobimama

Honestly speaking, this thing is worth it for people who have no idea about technology. For those who know how to do configurations and tweaking, one should look somewhere else, cause there are much more functional options out there only very difficult to use.

You have never used a Windows Media centre PC with media centre extender deivce, have u

I don't think one can dare trying to decode a 1080p mkv HDrip on one of these...

To be very frank, why Apple TV uses computer components is still unknown & weird. Everything Apple TV provides could have been done using simply an ATI XIllion Chip + TV Encoder from Philips/Conexent + WiFi Module from Conexent or Broadcom. There is nothing in Apple TV for which it required components of a PC. With these components, it would have easily decoded 1080p

A C2D based CPU, 256 MB RAM, GeForice 7300 Go is not required in Apple TV, to make it an iTunes extension at all. This is what makes it so costly. They try to run MacOS X (Excuse) everywhere where it is not even required.

Oh! I can just imagine how much users will like to see a 320X240 Youtube video at a 25" TV or above

[adithyagenius]

My dad is doing fine with Vista Home premium laptop with 17" 16:9 screen with remote control and Media Centre. Also with K-Lite Mega codec he can play anything. He needed to be taught how to use the aspect ratios and touch window from outside /inside using right click menu ( damn Moser Baer guys record movies with black bands on top and bottom due to aspect ratio problem ). He just plugs his Bose music system in for better audio. It switches to hibernation when he closes the lid. If he wants streaming content he knows how to type the url in IE7. Also not forget the bandwidth still isnt cheap. If its unlimited its slow, if its 2 mbps its costly.
My point is that this is way more useful because he use the same thing for presentations using projector, check up spreadsheets and documents (office work) and most importantly carry it with him without the techness overwhelming him. Also, I can play HL2 on it with very high settings with high FPS (7600 Go).
My mother would not touch a thing as sophisticated as a PC or Apple TV. She cant use my N70 to answer a call if I am not there.
Not useful for most of the people in AP. It wont sell unless Apple leverages its style and its brands name to sell it at most importantly affordable prices and very affordable broadband comes to india. Else instead of selling like ipod it will sell like imac.
Sorry for any typos

[dd_wingrider]

you got a point

[sandeepk]

Apple TV original (without any hack) has so many limitations that it becoming the next big thing for Apple is pretty less possibility.

[nepcker]

Check Apple bringing YouTube to Apple TV

Besides, Apple will provide free updates for Apple TV which will expand its capabilities

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

Oh! I can just imagine how much users will like to see a 320X240 Youtube video at a 25" TV or above

I am sure you wouldn't have held this opinion if it was Microsoft that had come out with this device. And I am one hundred percent sure Microsoft would never ever have given away such a huge feature away for free even to existing customers without promising to do so beforehand.

Oh, and BTW, I am sure people who buy this device would be ready to do a bit of a compromise for the convenience of watching YouTube so conveniently. It is amazing how much fun YouTube's original videos can be even if they aren't recorded using the best camcorders.

[goobimama]

@GX: You seriously think a Media Center PC would cost anything less than $500? First of all there's the cost of the OS itself ($300 for Home Premium?). Then there's the hardware. Then there's the network configurations (and that's no way, no way as simply as configuring Mac OS X).

15k is more than reasonable in my opinion, especially considering its size, form factor, aesthetics (looks good next to an HDTV), zero noise, and zero configuration. Add in the divx/Xvid support and its all good from there.

ATI XIllion Chip + TV Encoder from Philips/Conexent + WiFi Module from Conexent or Broadcom. There is nothing in Apple TV for which it required components of a PC. With these components, it would have easily decoded 1080p

You obviously haven't played any 1080p eh? And I'm not talking about those low bitrate, low compression one's, I'm talking about high bitrate, high compression x264 content...

[gxsaurav]

I am sure you wouldn't have held this opinion if it was Microsoft that had come out with this device. And I am one hundred percent sure Microsoft would never ever have given away such a huge feature away for free even to existing customers without promising to do so beforehand.

Now that would be your personal comment, even I hate MS not giving HD DVD Drive as standerd in XBOX 360 but then again, it is a gaming console first.

And No, you are not correct. MS gave 1080p scaling, HD DVD support & what not XBOX 360 users via free system software updates, but I am sure you did not bothered to read those articles.

@GX: You seriously think a Media Center PC would cost anything less than $500? First of all there's the cost of the OS itself ($300 for Home Premium?). Then there's the hardware. Then there's the network configurations (and that's no way, no way as simply as configuring Mac OS X).

Um...goobi, do some research. Windows Media Centre PCs are OEM only. With Vista, MCE does comes with the OS but for that $500 you are getting a full computer which can play anything, any file....on any TV, from any source. Try doing that with Apple TV

15k is more than reasonable in my opinion, especially considering its size, form factor, aesthetics (looks good next to an HDTV), zero noise, and zero configuration. Add in the divx/Xvid support and its all good from there.

Try telling that to someone who owns a HDTV.

"This is Apple TV, it costs 15k but comes without a HD DVD drive or DVD drive. It required you to purchse & setup a wireless connection with your PC in that room, so that you can see only H.264 content playable in iTunes on your Living room HDTV. Nothing else will play, unless you open this device of 15K, violating the warrenty & hack it with moded firmware or hacks, which might or might not work. If it doesn't works, chances are you will end up with a dead Apple TV cos since u opened it yourself Apple will not repair or repalce it for U. They might do it, by charging Rs 3k or 4k more. So when are you opening it to hack it so that it can play DivX files & all the files you downloaded Via torrent?"

You obviously haven't played any 1080p eh? And I'm not talking about those low bitrate, low compression one's, I'm talking about high bitrate, high compression x264 content..

Obviously U don't know what ATI Xillion Processor is made for, right

[ECE0105]

Well Well Well,

After Reading about this and all the posts. I don't really think anyone is going to buy this stuff except the Apple lovers (Fanboys, I think u call them)..

Well guys, I do admire Apple for their Creative products and in Love with my iPOD, but u fanboys are really making it hard for people.

Do u guys think any sane person would Invest good money on a product and then spend hours(if not days) on the internet to search for a hack and then Hack that thing so that u can utilize it to the fullest?

Interpreting a flaw as a great feature (to increase your technical capability) is not for the avg. user.

My parents are happy with a normal DVD player. Just pop in a DVD and press Play and bingo... They do not even know what a DIVx format is... Do they really need to? All that matters is, did they watch the movie or not.
So, trying a Hack to install VLC Player(They don't know wat this is either) to play different formats is stupidity.
Infact, when in the mood for a movie, I myself wudn't want to be spending time on these stuff. I really doubt, if you fanboys wud too....

And yes, the part I liked the most is : Apple TV Supports Youtube...

I sure would like to meet a fool, who invests in a HDTV and then watches those small (320X240 as someone said it) videos from youtube on it...

I really don't think it is about M$ or Apple, but it is about the Price:Feature Ratio....


P.S. : A humble request to the Mods and Admins... Please move any post regarding an Apple Product to Fightclub, cos, that is what such a post turns to

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

And No, you are not correct. MS gave 1080p scaling, HD DVD support & what not XBOX 360 users via free system software updates, but I am sure you did not bothered to read those articles.

Oh really? AFAIK, Xbox 360s come with an HD DVD drive standard. Why would Microsoft need a software update to enable something that is already there?

[gxsaurav]

Originally Posted by aryayush

Oh really? AFAIK, Xbox 360s come with an HD DVD drive standard. Why would Microsoft need a software update to enable something that is already there?

:ROFL:

Go to XBOX.com & read the pages again boy. Why don't u do some simple research before saying anything.

XBOX 360 comes with a Standerd DVD-9 Drive, while the HD DVD drive is an addon, if u want it then buy it, if you don't then don't buy it. Simple. They are not imposing something on U.

[goobimama]

True. I had not heard of the ATI Xilleon chip till now. But as it turns out, not many have. I googled it, and even searched the hdbits (the best HD tracker with some real experts on HD) and there was not one mention of the ATi Xilleon.

However, on this site (http://www.linuxdevices.com/products/PD4781682328.html), it does mention the chip. Seems good, but its nothing more than a slightly powerful set top box capable of oh ho, yeah huh, MPEG 2 decoding! Even a celeron can play MPEG2 1080p.

And as for converting video to h264, its so very simple. Just Quicktime > Export > Apple TV. Like I said, this device is NOT for any geek (other than an Apple fan, or one who doesn't mind hacking into it). Its for those who have no clue as to what IP addresses are and what ports to use. Plug and play. I certainly won't be buying this...

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

:ROFL:

Go to XBOX.com & read the pages again boy. Why don't u do some simple research before saying anything.

XBOX 360 comes with a Standerd DVD-9 Drive, while the HD DVD drive is an addon, if u want it then buy it, if you don't then don't buy it. Simple. They are not imposing something on U.

Yeah, whatever. So, what is Microsoft giving away for free here? I don't see anything.