"Vista Shows Better Security Than Mac OS X does"

[aryayush]

Yes, exactly. I know that from all the history I've been reading too. That is why I always mention OS X specifically in my posts.

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

Plz provide the source

Vista Viruses - The Next Generation

The site's URL should prove its authenticity.

Do a little experiment on your Windows Vista. Fire up LimeWire and search for some porn. Download any file that is less than 2 MB in size and open it. There, you already have a virus on a brand new copy of the most expensive version of Windows Vista.

Originally Posted by mAV3

hey thunderbird ... u got a source paste it here ... dont shoot arrows in the air ... almost every1 has said tht vista is MS most secure OS till date if not the best ...

And who is that everyone. Post "everyone" source here then. Iam not the one who is shooting the arrows is the air. The one who told me that does that.

[gxsaurav]

Originally Posted by arya

do a little experiment on your Windows Vista. Fire up LimeWire and search for some porn. Download any file that is less than 2 MB in size and open it. There, you already have a virus on a brand new copy of the most expensive version of Windows Vista.

One thing which should be made clear, the virus for Windows XP do not work with Windows Vista. Try running the blaster worm on Vista, it won't affect (personally tried this with Vista RC1). Using limewire & downloading viruses like that won't affect vista, if they are not made for Vista file structure & file system

about the first virus for vista, quoted from the website

[ The virus is an emulated service with a driver attached to the file system as an alternate stream

u have to be an admin first to give such permision to install a system lavel service in vista. It's just like what u said above in case of MacOS X, giving open access to the file, which in this case the user did. He went ahead & installed the virus himself, ok...not his fault, most people lack common sence, but comon....system lavel access via a rootkit, no virus can do it himself.

quote=arya]The Australian hacker who wrote the first virus for Windows Vista proclaimed it boldly all over the internet[/quote]

He wrote a virus, for which version? again, plz provide the source

I admit, obviously, your system will be compromised, if u go ahead & install a virus yourself, i doubt if the user was using Vista RTM

P.S. = Almost a fight section material . i m out of here, have to go quite far for north indian dinner

[Kiran.dks]

Originally Posted by mail2and
I know you;re pointing toward me. But, the best thing in life is to actually read into a thing before posting.

You said something.. I corrected you with a news story from the same site, which actually reported the hack.

If you read the last part of my previous post, you would have understood what I meant.

Every OS has its vulnerabilities. It's bound to happen. If it is coded by a man, it can be broken by a man, too. However, till date, *nix based operating systems have proven to be more secure. It's a fact.

However, if you are still trying to prove yourself right, despite being proven wrong, then be my guest.

Well well well.... Hold on before making me a guest here! I couldn't verify the links you have given due to firewall problems in office. Anyways here it goes now...

Did you check the after effect of Apple claim? No. Apple blamed the user for creating multiple user accounts. I agree that it is the stupidist thing to do - as good as giving a password. Mac could have been better protected. But, it will not make any difference as the hacker exploited a vulnerability that has not yet been made public or patched by Apple. The Hacker said that Apple's OS-often touted as more secure than its Windows counterpart -is "easy pickings" when it comes to vulnerabilities and that relatively low marketshare leaves most hackers uninterested in the platform.

The code that Apple uses in its applications and libraries is relatively under-audited, which leaves a lot of low hanging bugs... reports Suresec's Neil Archibald, a researcher. He then adds..

Some of the security vulnerabilities we've seen during research on OS X were fixed on most other operating systems 10 to 15 years ago," said Suresec's Neil Archibald. The company said that as Apple's marketshare grows, malicious users will find and exploit more of the underlying flaws. Apple is slow to fix them after they are found, and doesn't use the right software to preven them in each release, according to the firm.

Some researchers still believe that the 'Old' security flaws still persist in Mac OS X.

Check out these links:

'Old' security flaws persist in Mac OS X

Mac OS X hacker gains control in 30 min

I hope aryayush got his answer.

[kumarmohit]

@aryaayush - I meant Virus writing for any platform not just Windows or Mac or Linux or Symbian or anything else.

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by Kiran_tech_mania

Well well well.... Hold on before making me a guest here! I couldn't verify the links you have given due to firewall problems in office. Anyways here it goes now...

Did you check the after effect of Apple claim? No. Apple blamed the user for creating multiple user accounts. I agree that it is the stupidist thing to do - as good as giving a password. Mac could have been better protected. But, it will not make any difference as the hacker exploited a vulnerability that has not yet been made public or patched by Apple. The Hacker said that Apple's OS-often touted as more secure than its Windows counterpart -is "easy pickings" when it comes to vulnerabilities and that relatively low marketshare leaves most hackers uninterested in the platform.

Well, I suggest you read this more carefully.
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/21...report-prompts

I have always maintained that all platforms are insecure, however this hack attempt was debunked by experts.

I quote:

The University of Wisconsin's challenge provides contestants with a URL for the system that they need to hack.

The system is a Mac Mini running the latest version of OS X as well as all the latest security updates. It has been configured with two local user accounts and has SSH and HTTP open. The latter are not typical settings for an average user, according to Schroeder.

Contestants who claim to have succeeded in hacking the system must provide details about how they breached the security walls, which will be provided to Apple. The winner gets a claim to fame, but no material price.

Why am I not surprised that no one won that particular contest?

There are lots of dumb people in the world. The guy who started the hack contest was one of them.

For the record, it was an independent blog that posted the article, and not Apple.

[mediator]

Originally Posted by Kiran_tech_mania

Most of the Virus aren't ment for getting famous! It's for stealing information from the victim's PC. Imagine I would write a virus for Windows. Certainly I am not goin to bla bla to everybody that I am the creator!

It seems u r confusing trojans with virii and passive attacks with active attacks!

[mehulved]

To all those who say that other OS'es don't have viruses, why does symbian, whose userbase is not so large as Windows have viruses, too. OK symbian usage is growing exponentially now, but there have been viruses for it since the time it wasn't so popular.

[iMav]

i agree tht its not the popularity only factor leading to trojans and viruses .... but it is an important factor ... creating a trojan for mac will have a small effect as compared to tht for a windows trojan ....

no 1 is saying tht mac/linux are not good ... they are good hence hav stood the test of time ... but saying tht they are unbeatable and saying viuses cant be coded is foolish for any person who has been associated with technology for more than 6 months

[mehulved]

I haven't seen anyone so far say that Linux/Mac/Solaris/BSD etc are virus proof.

[subratabera]

Here are some hard facts...

The first confirmed Windows Vista flaw, a denial-of-service issue that was publicly released on an underground Russian hacker site, is still unpatched. And, yes, it hits both Vista and older versions of Windows.
The MSRC is expected to issue a formal security advisory with pre-patch workarounds. In the interim, the company is urging customers to enable a firewall, apply all security updates and install anti-virus and anti-spyware protection.

Source

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

I haven't seen anyone so far say that Linux/Mac/Solaris/BSD etc are virus proof.

Exactly. No one, either me or Anand, said that it is virus proof. But it is inherently much more secure than Windows is. It is far easier to create a virus for Windows than for Mac OS X (and even Linux, for that matter).

Originally Posted by Kiran_tech_mania

I hope aryayush got his answer.

No, I didn't. First of all, I am not aware of this exploit thing you guys are talking about but after reading mail2and's posts, it is quite clear that the incident does not reflect anything on OS X's security. It was an incredibly stupid thing to do and anyone could have cracked it. Basically, mail2and has debunked whatever you've said thus far. And secondly, finding links to random articles from random people who have some grudge against OS X and go on record saying things against it, evidently backed by research, is not going to prove anything. If Mac OS X really had security holes fixed by Windows 5-10 years ago, wouldn't it have been all over the internet? Wouldn't it have been quoted in every Windows vs. Mac debate? C'mon guys, at least check the authenticity of the sources you refer to.

Originally Posted by Kiran_tech_mania

Apple is slow to fix them after they are found, and doesn't use the right software to preven them in each release, according to the firm.

First of all, that firm is craptastic. Second, Apple is slow in fixing bugs, right? The Month of Apple bugs project, in their thirty days, announced four bugs that were directly related to Apple and Apple has already fixed the first one. Apple releases updates to their operating system every three-four months. Microsoft does it in two-three years.

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

To all those who say that other OS'es don't have viruses, why does symbian, whose userbase is not so large as Windows have viruses, too. OK symbian usage is growing exponentially now, but there have been viruses for it since the time it wasn't so popular.

Exactly.

[praka123]

the main curiousity of windows users about why Linux or Mac not getting affected by Viruses easily can be explained in a single line-these UNIX derived OSes are having a user-file permission system which is RWX(read-write-execute) .and only through any loophole(like setuid) that it can get a root user power can a so called POC viruses propagate or do its destruction work in UNIXens.while DOS and Windows are inherently insecure,it can at max set a read only permission to prevent a file misuse.

though afaik UNIXens can be affected by worms,not a virus.

UNIX is quite Old nearly 30? years..and it is staying here and will stay tomorrow too.it is its inherent security features that is rocking in 21st century also

To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it

We've all heard it many times when a new Microsoft virus comes out. In fact, I've heard it a couple of times this week already. Someone on a mailing list or discussion forum complains about the latest in a long line of Microsoft email viruses or worms and recommends others consider Mac OS X or Linux as a somewhat safer computing platform. In response, another person named, oh, let's call him "Bill," says, basically, "How ridiculous! The only reason Microsoft software is the target of so many viruses is because it is so widely used! Why, if Linux or Mac OS X was as popular as Windows, there would be just as many viruses written for those platforms!"

read more(is a must read for windows/microsoft only users(fanboys):
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/10/06/linux_vs_windows_viruses/


The short life and hard times of a Linux virus

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by aryayush

Exactly. No one, either me or Anand, said that it is virus proof. But it is inherently much more secure than Windows is. It is far easier to create a virus for Windows than for Mac OS X (and even Linux, for that matter).

I think GNUrag can explain this bit very nicely. GNU where are you!

[Kiran.dks]

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

To all those who say that other OS'es don't have viruses, why does symbian, whose userbase is not so large as Windows have viruses, too. OK symbian usage is growing exponentially now, but there have been viruses for it since the time it wasn't so popular.

Now why did you bring in Symbian issue here? Get your facts right before commenting.

World’s first Symbian OS phone "Ericsson R380" was launched way back in 2000. The first malware "SymbOS/Cabir" for a Symbian OS was seen in June 2004. It was around the same period the Symbian OS occupied a considerable amount of market share. Popularity DOES make a huge difference in development of malwares, may it be Windows or Mac or Linux.

Aryayush & mail2and, hold your horses for a while till I reply to you.

[gxsaurav]

this thread is still in news section?

[Kiran.dks]

Originally Posted by aryayush

No, I didn't. First of all, I am not aware of this exploit thing you guys are talking about but after reading mail2and's posts, it is quite clear that the incident does not reflect anything on OS X's security. It was an incredibly stupid thing to do and anyone could have cracked it. Basically, mail2and has debunked whatever you've said thus far. And secondly, finding links to random articles from random people who have some grudge against OS X and go on record saying things against it, evidently backed by research, is not going to prove anything. If Mac OS X really had security holes fixed by Windows 5-10 years ago, wouldn't it have been all over the internet? Wouldn't it have been quoted in every Windows vs. Mac debate? C'mon guys, at least check the authenticity of the sources you refer to.

First of all, that firm is craptastic. Second, Apple is slow in fixing bugs, right? The Month of Apple bugs project, in their thirty days, announced four bugs that were directly related to Apple and Apple has already fixed the first one. Apple releases updates to their operating system every three-four months. Microsoft does it in two-three years.

See who is making big comments here. A Mac guy who doesn't know the famous hacking issue. This shows how much updated you are in OS knowledge.
It is very easier to dismiss facts as "non-authentic". Anyway, if that was non-authentic for you and mail2and, then take this one from "Secunia". Now don't ask me about "Secunia".

Windows is more secure than you think, and Mac OS X is worse than you ever imagined. That is according to statistics published for the first time in 2004 by Danish security firm Secunia.

The stats, based on a database of security advisories for more than 3,500 products during 2003 and 2004 sheds light on the real security of enterprise applications and operating systems, according to the firm. Each product is broken down into pie charts demonstrating how many, what type and how significant security holes have been in each.

One thing the hard figures have shown is that OS X's reputation as a relatively secure operating system is unwarranted, Secunia said. This year and last year Secunia tallied 36 advisories on security issues with the software, many of them allowing attackers to remotely take over the system - comparable to figures on operating systems such as Windows XP Professional and Red Hat Enterprise Server. "Secunia is now displaying security statistics that will open many eyes, and for some it might be very disturbing news," said Secunia chief executive Niels Henrik Rasmussen. "The myth that Mac OS X is secure, for example, has been exposed."

More info

[s18000rpm]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

this thread is still in news section?

i too wonder why.

[gxsaurav]

yo S1800RPM how did u made that image bar?

@kiran

Who are u arguing with man, it won't make any difference, don't waste your time, they are not going to understand anything. U got a life man, do other things....arguing with macboys is just waste of time. They say the same thing again & again, get pawned, & then come again with the same old thing. Anything Anti-Apple is war material for them. Just let them post & my advice is that do not reply. It won't make any difference, be happy with what u use.

(issued in public interest)

[s18000rpm]

i made the first one using "Userbar Generator 2.2"


rest i d/l frm the links given in this thread - SiggyBar/UserBar Creation

& created the animated gif usin that s/w

[ax3]

nothing is SECURED ............

[Kiran.dks]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

yo S1800RPM how did u made that image bar?

@kiran

Who are u arguing with man, it won't make any difference, don't waste your time, they are not going to understand anything. U got a life man, do other things....arguing with macboys is just waste of time. They say the same thing again & again, get pawned, & then come again with the same old thing. Anything Anti-Apple is war material for them. Just let them post & my advice is that do not reply. It won't make any difference, be happy with what u use.

(issued in public interest)

I completely agree with you saurav. Enough is enough. I am fed up of these guys. I see other recent thread which is really against all morals. I simply don't understand them. I know how much frustrated you are (so as I am).

[mehulved]

Originally Posted by Kiran_tech_mania

Now why did you bring in Symbian issue here? Get your facts right before commenting.

World’s first Symbian OS phone "Ericsson R380" was launched way back in 2000. The first malware "SymbOS/Cabir" for a Symbian OS was seen in June 2004. It was around the same period the Symbian OS occupied a considerable amount of market share. Popularity DOES make a huge difference in development of malwares, may it be Windows or Mac or Linux.

Read my reply again and understand if you can't then forget it. There's no point in explaining it to you cos you surely do selective reading.

[rajasekharan]

My new o.s "kataboom" the best ever . To be released sometime by me . Install it and FORGET it . Please include my "kataboom"in this section too

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by Kiran_tech_mania

I completely agree with you saurav. Enough is enough. I am fed up of these guys. I see other recent thread which is really against all morals. I simply don't understand them. I know how much frustrated you are (so as I am).

So, simply because you were wrong, and I corrected you, makes me immoral?

I am still waiting for your reply to my post. I've posted the link twice. Here is it, for the third time.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/21...report-prompts

BTW, your reply to tech_your_future's posts and his observations proves my point very well.

And, oh, please do read this.

I've posted it three times now.

However, I do understand that conscience and common sense aren't rationed.



I quote:

The University of Wisconsin's challenge provides contestants with a URL for the system that they need to hack.

The system is a Mac Mini running the latest version of OS X as well as all the latest security updates. It has been configured with two local user accounts and has SSH and HTTP open. The latter are not typical settings for an average user, according to Schroeder.

Contestants who claim to have succeeded in hacking the system must provide details about how they breached the security walls, which will be provided to Apple. The winner gets a claim to fame, but no material price.