Vista will drive users to Linux

[rajas700]

The cost of migrating from Windows XP to Windows Vista will encourage more companies to seriously consider moving to desktop Linux, the chief executive of open-source and networking company Novell said on Monday.

Speaking at Brainshare, the company's annual European user conference in Barcelona, Novell CEO Jack Messman claimed that the cost of moving desktops to the next version of Windows will be significantly higher than migrating to desktop Linux.

"The cost of migrating to Windows XP to Vista will be higher than the cost of migrating to Linux and that will push migrations to Linux," Messman said.

Novell says it is making real gains on the desktop in Europe currently and that many organizations are choosing its Linux Desktop product especially in vertical industries that require locked-down clients with limited functionality.

"Instead of a 'one-size-fits-all' approach, Novell Desktop can be customized to provide the right fit across different workstations in the enterprise," said David Patrick, general manager of open-source platforms for Novell. "So businesses finally have a secure and cost-effective alternative to Windows that serves the customer's return on investment rather than a vendor's proprietary licensing program."

Messman added that moving to desktop Linux has functionality benefits as well as cost benefits. He claimed that the fact that Novell's desktop Linux offering has less functionality than Microsoft Office is actually a positive rather than a negative thing.

Messman claimed that certain features of Office allowed employees to waste time at work by making it easy for them to browse non-work-related sites. "Do you really want to pay for all the excess functionality in Windows that distracts your employees and reduces their productivity?"

The City of Munich announced last week that it has delayed its migration to Linux on the desktop until 2006, a year later than planned and three years after it decided to migrate to Linux. Commenting on this news, Novell European general manager Volker Smid said he believed the setback would not be permanent. "I am more than convinced that these guys will achieve their aim no matter what, and proud that they have decided to go with Novell for the server element of the migration," said Smid.

Recent migrations to Novell's desktop Linux package include SEB Eesti UHispank, the largest bank in Estonia, which is using Novell's SuSE Linux for bank teller workstations.

The municipality of Baerum in Norway is migrating 40 schools from Windows to Linux too. According to IT manager Siri Opheim, a pilot scheme yielded good results and full migration is expected to begin at the end of 2005. "While we don't expect to move every user in our enterprise to Linux desktops, we believe we can achieve real savings by starting to move users in education," he said.

Schools can save a considerable amount of money by switching from proprietary software to open-source software, according to a report released in May by the British Educational Communications and Technology Association. The report found that primary schools could cut computer costs by nearly half if they stopped buying, operating and supporting products from proprietary software vendors such as Microsoft.

According to a recent report from Windows IT Pro, Windows Vista is due to ship on Dec. 7, 2006. However Microsoft has refused to confirm or deny the reports and continues to claim simply that Windows Vista will ship in the second half of next year.

source :google.

[rajas]

I dont think so.

[tuxfan]

This assumes that people want to migrate to something from WinXP. If you can't migrate, stay where you are. For die hard windows fans, it is easier to stay with XP then go to Linux.

A new release of Windows will never increase Linux users. This seems to be over-enthusiastic thinking.

[srijit]

but @tuxfan, ur post doesnt have the solid conviction that @rajas post has

[Tech&ME]

I don't know how many of you have ever read the EULA which comes with Windows and Linux.

Let me tell you something, as company, the Managing Director and Adminstrator and others have to consider many things before they actually install this softwares of Operating Systems on their company computers.

For example : Linux violets Intelactual Property Rights. Now I hope you know what that is.

Linux violets many industry patents.

No privacy with Linux.

And this is just a marketing stunt that Novell is trying to use. Vista is powerful and you know better then me how easy it is to implement things in Windows. Vista is the answer to next generation of computing.

you will also agree that about 85% of servers worldwide run on Windows.
and about 90% desktop (PC) runs on Windows alone.

Well ours is a medium enterprise and in the recent board meeting after having a good brainstroming sessions, we finally decided to implement our servers and workstations based on the Windows platform. The main reason was, future ready, future upgradable, no intelactual property rights issues (some are still there, but no damages can be caused). Out of box network installation of Updates. No issues with virus, trojans, malware, etc if implemented correctly using legal tools.

[cryptid]

Well i have a strong feeling that this will happen(i,e ppl shifting from Windows to linux) common with a OS costing as much as a new alien PC who would even think of giving it a try and for all the ppl who are thinking to sticking to XP.I have only 1 thing to say ,y u want to stick to a Fiat premier padmini when some 1 is giving away their Merc for Free, common guys y dont u give linux a try start with Ubuntu its a good Distro for noobs, ppl have a wrong notion that linux is for only experienced and SUper users,,, once u give Ubuntu a try u will feel that this is totally wrong.

[srijit]

85% of servers run on Windows? thats a new one for me. oh well guess i am not that well informed

[tuxfan]

Originally Posted by Tech&ME

For example : Linux violets Intelactual Property Rights. Now I hope you know what that is.

Linux violets many industry patents.

:roll: Why hasn't Linus and other developers been successfully sued so far for this? Whats happening to SCO suit? Any progress for SCO? Why is companies like IBM and Oracle backing it so strongly? Only to get sued in future?

No privacy with Linux.

And are you sure you have complete privacy with Windows? This is the first time that I am hearing this. Actually, privacy in Linux is ensured because the source is open. If there is some code for clandestine movement of confidential data, it would have come out long back. But we don't know if this happens in an M$ product :roll: The source code is pretty closely guarded!

And this is just a marketing stunt that Novell is trying to use.

I agree. This is an over-enthusiastic reaction.

Vista is powerful and you know better then me how easy it is to implement things in Windows. Vista is the answer to next generation of computing.

Don't you know that viruses have already started surfacing for VISTA even before its released? I read somewhere that VISTA stands for VIrus, Spyware, Trojan, Adware

you will also agree that about 85% of servers worldwide run on Windows and about 90% desktop (PC) runs on Windows alone.

Your figures for desktop users may be just about right, but I have doubts about server figures. Linux/Unix servers are more popular than Windows in servers arena.

[Tech&ME]

It seems you all are concentrating at the DESKTOP computing side only. And the figures I gave are not for INDIA alone. The figure arrived at relates to the worldwide sales of LEGAL OS's.

US and UK have more LEGAL users of OS's then in any other country, and mainly China and India which is better off with pirated versions of Windows.

Next, comes the COMPANY ----- In a company you just can't go installing anything. Linux or Windows. There are other cost involved, and who said Linux is FREE ???????

Linux charges for the support on its Server OS's. What you get with Digit is not the full version of this Linux Servers. Even you decide to install from the Digit CD's you will still need to purchase the Linux support Services to keep your server running 24/7.

Then, comes the cost of tutorials. ya if a company decides to implement Linux, not every employee is familiar with the interface and the modules of softwares. Who ever things the to work with a CD you need to mount and unmount it everytime you try using it, does a newbee knows this ?

Tutorials cost companies a lot, and also a waste of time for the company.

All IT related employees do come with some knowledge of Windows, since they must have atleast worked on this platform during there college days. U can find a larger number of employee based on the Windows platform but this is not the case with Linux.

Originally Posted by tuxfan

Why hasn't Linus and other developers been successfully sued so far for this? Whats happening to SCO suit? Any progress for SCO? Why is companies like IBM and Oracle backing it so strongly? Only to get sued in future?

They are more smart then you think they are, did you ever read the GPL or any opensource software EULA ? It stir clear of this issues by simply saying they are opensource and so this issues are irrelevant . Is it really irrelevant to the Company who runs a critical server ? where all the critical data is stored about the company is up for everyone to see because the company does not have any intelectual property rights on its own data ?

[drvarunmehta]

Originally Posted by cryptid

common guys y dont u give linux a try start with Ubuntu its a good Distro for noobs, ppl have a wrong notion that linux is for only experienced and SUper users,,, once u give Ubuntu a try u will feel that this is totally wrong.

Tried it out. The GUI wouldn't load and it gave some cryptic hardware related error. First iron out hardware compatibility issues with Linux then tell no0bs to use it.

[ujjwal]

I agree completely with tuxfan, the article is very optimistic and quite unrealistic, to be frank. There can well be a gradual increase in linux users over the years, but not anything as drastic as the article says. Considering the number of organisations still with Windows NT or proprietory Unix'es, migration takes a long time.

But one is getting tired of threads which inevitably turn into linux vs windows debates

Linux charges for the support on its Server OS's. What you get with Digit is not the full version of this Linux Servers. Even you decide to install from the Digit CD's you will still need to purchase the Linux support Services to keep your server running 24/7.

Thank you for your info, sir, and I will continue using slackware/arch as a server for free ... oh but thats illegal as according to you, you need to pay to run linux 24x7 :roll:

They are more smart then you think they are, did you ever read the GPL or any opensource software EULA ? It stir clear of this issues by simply saying they are opensource and so this issues are irrelevant . Is it really irrelevant to the Company who runs a critical server ? where all the critical data is stored about the company is up for everyone to see because the company does not have any intelectual property rights on its own data ?

Are you even aware of what you are saying :roll: ? Google is one site running linux for their servers, please do show me all their critical data

For example : Linux violets Intelactual Property Rights. Now I hope you know what that is.

Linux violets many industry patents.

No privacy with Linux.

Fear, Uncertainity, Doubt

[vignesh]

People are quite happy with xp.I don`t think this will increase the no of Linux users

[Tech&ME]

Originally Posted by ujjwal

I agree completely with tuxfan, the article is very optimistic and quite unrealistic, to be frank. There can well be a gradual increase in linux users over the years, but not anything as drastic as the article says. Considering the number of organisations still with Windows NT or proprietory Unix'es, migration takes a long time.

But one is getting tired of threads which inevitably turn into linux vs windows debates

Thank you for your info, sir, and I will continue using slackware/arch as a server for free ... oh but thats illegal as according to you, you need to pay to run linux 24x7 :roll:

Man it seems you don't even know what Servers are! I never said you cannot run Linux 24/7 for FREE. But can you imagine running a Server without any HELP ? Where do you work bud , you a student ?

Man Companies find it hard at times to run this critical Servers with out help !!!! Join a good company and become the CEO or MD or atleast System Administrator and you will know what I am speaking!

They are more smart then you think they are, did you ever read the GPL or any opensource software EULA ? It stir clear of this issues by simply saying they are opensource and so this issues are irrelevant . Is it really irrelevant to the Company who runs a critical server ? where all the critical data is stored about the company is up for everyone to see because the company does not have any intelectual property rights on its own data ?

Are you even aware of what you are saying :roll: ? Google is one site running linux for their servers, please do show me all their critical data

For example : Linux violets Intelactual Property Rights. Now I hope you know what that is.

Linux violets many industry patents.

No privacy with Linux.

My GOD what do you mean to say "please do show me all their critical data", you are talking like a KID!!!! Don't you understand, go talk to lawer and ask him about Intelactual Property Rights. Does GOOGLE at some point needs to hide certain data from its employees ? yes! And that's what i mean to say bud.

[Tech&ME]

I think its best not to talk in this topic.(For ME atleast, since everyone is talking based on there DESKTOP experiences and DIGIT Linux distros)

Before replying to this topic I would like to request forum members to atleast tell us.

1. How many of you run real SERVERS (Windows or Linux based) in your real life ?

2. What Critical Servers are and what type of Servers are we talking about here ?

[tuxfan]

So do you mean to say that just because GNU/Linux OS are open source, they are not fit for critical data?

I have heard many arguments against Linux, but I must say that this one is the most unusual of all. You are away from truth sir. Actually, it could be the other way round. Don't think that just because the source is open, passwords would be revealed in if (pwd == vista) statements. They are ways of doing it and I am sure this is surely not how it would be done

As for IP rights, forget about the companies like IBM who use it. If there is violation, IP right holders will first sue Linus and then all distro companies and they will have all the money of M$ at their disposal in this fight.

Alternatively, M$ will buy out that IP rights and start a suit. That is what they tried by acquiring rights to UNIX and then suing thru SCO. But has it worked? No. It hasn't!! Day by day there are more and more people switching to it. Every now and then I hear a story that so and so state/school/hospital/institution has adopted Linux.

Here's a small list. Of course its not comprehensive.
1. Madhya Pradesh Government schools (about 389)
2. Kerala Government schools
3. Indian Railway catering department
4. Maharashtra Govt. Administrative Head Office (Mantralaya)
5. LIC
6. Breach Candy Hospital

Even our president, APJ Abdul Kalam has been recommending Linux. Don't you think he is one of the leading technological minds of India?

[__Virus__]

Originally Posted by Tech&ME

I don't know how many of you have ever read the EULA which comes with Windows and Linux.

Let me tell you something, as company, the Managing Director and Adminstrator and others have to consider many things before they actually install this softwares of Operating Systems on their company computers.

For example : Linux violets Intelactual Property Rights. Now I hope you know what that is.

Linux violets many industry patents.

No privacy with Linux.

And this is just a marketing stunt that Novell is trying to use. Vista is powerful and you know better then me how easy it is to implement things in Windows. Vista is the answer to next generation of computing.

you will also agree that about 85% of servers worldwide run on Windows.
and about 90% desktop (PC) runs on Windows alone.

Well ours is a medium enterprise and in the recent board meeting after having a good brainstroming sessions, we finally decided to implement our servers and workstations based on the Windows platform. The main reason was, future ready, future upgradable, no intelactual property rights issues (some are still there, but no damages can be caused). Out of box network installation of Updates. No issues with virus, trojans, malware, etc if implemented correctly using legal tools.

^^^ hmmmm childish ???

yahoo..hotmail...desi rediff,google, lame site at a free ftp like coconia.net, free porn sites like , hp, dell, canon << wht do they use????? windows? big no....so i hope u get the answer by now..cmon man agreed tht most of the users on desktops (who fear research and development) use windows ,first at server side comes sun sularis thn comes *nix...thn no one uses windows...so dont ever come on server side or u will b prompted to update media codecs by media player..

just wait for my post to come up in general section bout winsh*t and linux

Edited Batty: Do not post links to porn sites here

[tuxfan]

If CRITICAL servers are the criteria, then its all the more reason to run Linux for stability and security. At times, Windows servers need a restart after some time (may be months) whereas Linux servers are known to run for much more time without needing any intervention. That is why more and more servers, especially web-servers, are now linux based!!

[Tech&ME]

Ok you win, and please don't call me SIR. It doesn't sounds good, since I am of your age only.

And I am not a SIR in this forum. May be in my company!

I was just argueing something i should not, so sorry for that.

[__Virus__]

Originally Posted by tuxfan

If CRITICAL servers are the criteria, then its all the more reason to run Linux for stability and security. At times, Windows servers need a restart after some time (may be months) whereas Linux servers are known to run for much more time without needing any intervention. That is why more and more servers, especially web-servers, are now linux based!!

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html

windows 98 had uptime of 48 days

[srijit]

win 98 on a server?!!!! ROFL...

[cryptid]

Originally Posted by Tech&ME

you will also agree that about 85% of servers worldwide run on Windows.

LOL

[jpushkarh]

Gr8 fun & also very knowledgeble thread

[__Virus__]

Originally Posted by cryptid

you will also agree that about 85% of servers worldwide run on Windows.

Prove it and i will gift u my Mobo

[theexister]

I have been working at one of the top 3 indian IT companies (which I cannot name for obvious reasons).
We are using Win2k SP4 now for the past 4 years & only about 3 months back are slowly moving to WinXP proff.

We considered at one point to move all servers to Linux but the price of their Support services was way too high. Considering the frequent updations and maintanence we do every month it would have exceeded the cost of a one time payment for a Windows OS.

As far as the industry is concerened the move to linux is more hyped. I have heard a few of my friends in other IT companies talk about the move to Linux but the complexity of its use combined with the hidden cost eventually supercedes.

Most companies will stick to existing OS in both the cases (server & desktop) until the next generation OS really offers better value & features.

[it_waaznt_me]

And to add theexister's post, the cost of training the personnel .. that is another thing ..

[tuxfan]

And what about hardware support? Linux still lacks quite a bit there as well. Mainly hardware manufacturers are to be blamed for this. But you can't expect users to sit and find the right drivers for their hardware every now an then :roll:

[sujithtom]

People just don't consider about migrating cost only. If Vista is far more better than Linux companies will surely choose Vista...

[planetcall]

comeon peeps what the fuss??? I wonder if someon really wanna compare linux with windows. There is no match pal. The simple thing is that Linux rules and it not just me who yells that but see the proof(netcraft link posted above). Desktop is *mostly* used by noobs who dont really want to learn and go through any hassles and love icons more than real performance and also they outnumber experts. This is where Windows Reigns. Now the server segment is mostly handled by experts and the talented peeps. See on google the wide gap between the linux distros and Windows in this segment. Simply Linux rules.

In the desktop segment too Linux has recently giving M$ a big threat. GNOME has matured to greater height and recently I discovered a great website "www.gnome-look.org" and then only I come to know that linux already has evolved more than I used to think. I have been using Windows ever since I started but now I have migrated to Linux, the better option

[it_waaznt_me]

You say 80 M Desktop users are n00bs and 20 30 K of Server admins are "experts" ... ??
You cannot use a server as your desktop buddy .. This is like you buy a plane to go office daily .. It wont suit ..
And do you put your computer on for 48 days ..??? I dont .. and I dont see any reason to do that ..
Now to your post .. There is no match because Linux and Windows are for different use (And not becuase Linux rules ) .. If you search the Open Source forum, you'll find a nice argument on this ..

[vignesh]

I heard Vista is too heavy on resources.