Piracy worked for us, Romania president tells Gates

[anandk]

Pirated Microsoft Corp software helped Romania to build a vibrant technology industry, Romanian President Traian Basescu told the company's co-founder Bill Gates on Thursday.

"Piracy helped the young generation discover computers. It set off the development of the IT industry in Romania" Basescu said during a joint news conference with Gates.

Foreign investors say Romania's IT sector is one of most promising industries in the fast-growing economy thanks to high level of technical education in Romania, low wages and the country's thriving underworld of computers hackers.

http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=37809

[Pathik]

same as india

[tarey_g]

Its the truth , but the President crossed the line saying it before media in presence of a software company head. The president post has its limitations, he should not act like you or me, any person on that honourable post should talk responsibly.

I hope Microsoft will forgive them. I see terrible things coming to romania.

Originally Posted by vimal_mehrotra

Romania-
M$-

To be frank. MS is not evil. I learned lot of things from them. Try going to technet you will learn a lot. I learned half of the programming from their. It is very clear to understand. I do not need teacher or go to class to learn programming and other things.

The only thing i do not like only ms. They way the implement drm in OS. Software Privacy started from the days of floppy and they no one went to loss. They gained a lot of money. Fighting against piracy is hopeless. No advertisement or other anti-cp will work.

[tarey_g]

^^ They will do nothing twisted , bill gates didn't become the richest guy by doing such things . Big corps think business not revenge. Romania is a big market for them.

[praka123]

but romania' s president dont know about the better free alternatives-Linux and Open Source/Free Softwares

[anandk]

Romania, Pakistan, Yugoslavia, Nigeria and Indonesia have the highest internet frauds rates. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4648378/%20

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by tarey_g

^^ They will do nothing twisted , bill gates didn't become the richest guy by doing such things . Big corps think business not revenge. Romania is a big market for them.

Markets are made on purchasing power, not potential customers (pirates). Thats what some failed and broke MNCs in India have realised who rushed in after liberalization of economy expecting big profits but the little purchasing power and poor salaries of Indians proved a hamper.

Same with Romania toay, after decades of over population, natural disasters, poverty, socialist regime, low salaries and bad policies of toppled Nicolae Ceausescu, it would be naive to expect a Market for Windows and other costly MS products. The price Windows Vista Ultimate compares to the 6 months average salary of average Romanians.

Originally Posted by praka123

but romania' s president dont know about the better free alternatives-Linux and Open Source/Free Softwares

Implementation of Open Source isn't easy, learning computers from scratch using Linux is quite a pain. Linux has complex solutions to simple problems which either don't exist or take a snap in Windows and Mac.

Originally Posted by anandk

Romania, Pakistan, Yugoslavia, Nigeria and Indonesia have the highest internet frauds rates. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4648378/%20

No surprise here. Before it joined EU Romanian servers (incl. Chinese, Swedish and Russian) were launch pad for black hat hackers, pirates and cyber mafia.

[tarey_g]

Originally Posted by Aberforth

Markets are made on purchasing power, not potential customers (pirates).

Absolutely wrong , pirates of today are potential customers of tommorow. Thos who can not pay for the software now may be in future will pay for it, students who learn from these software will like to work on this software in future. So organizations with such students turned programmers/artists are obviously gonna inplement the same environment in their org's to which most of the population is habitual to . In India itself we have many pirates turned legit buyers, most ppl pirate because they can't buy. No wise business company will want potential customers to hunt for alternatives to their product and become habitual to a rival software.

[Aberforth]

If you price the software beyond the affordability of pirates than there is less chance of them converting to a customer. Once the piracy of software gets a habit, the same customers will be reluctant to pay for it when they can as it comes 'free', so why pay. Piracy would survive in developing and poor countries as it is in the companies' interests, in fact, not the other way round as they would help us believe.

[eddie]

^^ You've never seen Cocaine or other drug addicts? Never heard of the ways the drugs peddlers work? First they give their stuff for free...once you are hooked...they charge. If you are too poor to afford it...you sell blood to buy it. Now think about it in terms of software and you'll understand

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aberforth

Implementation of Open Source isn't easy, learning computers from scratch using Linux is quite a pain.

Read this => "Kids say thankyou to Ubuntu Team

The machines are 600mhz/128mb/4.2gig and they took about 3/4's of an hour to install and configure perfectly, and have cost the centre nothing!

The kids absolutely love them, most are from underpriviledged backgrounds and many of them have never used a computer before. As a result they will grow up computer literate.

Originally Posted by aberforth

Linux has complex solutions to simple problems which either don't exist or take a snap in Windows and Mac.

Like? May be thats why they r used in servers, routers and even to perform real time operations in space shuttles and military hardware etc etc??

Originally Posted by aberforth

If you price the software beyond the affordability of pirates than there is less chance of them converting to a customer. Once the piracy of software gets a habit, the same customers will be reluctant to pay for it when they can as it comes 'free', so why pay. Piracy would survive in developing and poor countries as it is in the companies' interests, in fact, not the other way round as they would help us believe.

U pay to get the support n services 24/7 n thats ofcors if u really like the software!

[praka123]

^^ I completely agree with mediator.
i have a question,while using pc,we are saying ease of use.OK Linux or Windows may be having dat stuff.but isn't a computer something more than your TV or Music/Home theatre when discussing?it is common logic that computers are used for different useful purposes and the Computer user should be supposed to know something about his pc rather than thinking it as a multimedia entertainment centre.Linux and BSD's or MACs or any *NIXens afaik are offering you the same also.you know what your machine is by configuring and tweaking different options available in your pC.
rather than decorating ur desktop and playing media files(is available in most UNIX)Linux gives you how your hardware is configured and by the time you used to it in a week or so you may be proficient in using CLI-the door to understand your Operating System.without @ albeit a small learning curve,how do ya ppl feel,its jus like another gizmo>your PC

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by eddie

^^ You've never seen Cocaine or other drug addicts? Never heard of the ways the drugs peddlers work? First they give their stuff for free...once you are hooked...they charge. If you are too poor to afford it...you sell blood to buy it. Now think about it in terms of software and you'll understand

The psychology of addiction is different from customer choices. Addicts usually don't have alternatives and are physically dependent on drugs while a software customer isn't. For example if Clinic Plus shampoo is priced at Rs.1000 tomorrow customers wouldn't pay their blood to get hold of it, they'd just switch to another brand.

Originally Posted by mediator

http://www.edubuntu.org/news/7

Using a companies own source to give credibility is a poor choice. It is as good as Microsoft 'third party' claims about how Windows Server is more stable than Linux, we know its just a staged situation.

Originally Posted by mediator

Like? May be thats why they r used in servers, routers and even to perform real time operations in space shuttles and military hardware etc etc??

Old and same argument which never helps a person convert to Linux. From a non-geek's point of view it doesn't matter even if CIA uses Linux as their requirement (stability, security) is different from ours. In web servers and high demand systems scaled down versions of Linux are used with settings which are planets away from desktops and laptops which are multipurpose, good looking, easy to use machines. A space shuttle or medical sensor doesn't need to download wallpapers and play encrypted DVDs but I do. All these stuff are easier in Windows because

1> A lot of applications are available and you don't have to go through countless manuals and hoops to install them.
2> Mp3s, DVDs play out of the box without cryptic messages why it couldn't playback...
3> I don't have to download 30 MB of dependencies to install a 5 MB software which is often a pain in my average speed connection
4> Almost every average person can troubleshoot windows or help us find out whats wrong, forget Microsoft support - tech supports are a pain anyway.

There are hundreds of other pointers which still keep Linux out of usability of home or pleasure users of computers.

As much as I hate to think, Linux and other free alternatives haven't been as easy for a normal home or pleasure user as OS X or Windows. Thats one of the roadblock for a person to convert - I have been out there and have experienced it. I use both Linux and Windows and I have both as it know the advantages and drawbacks of both which is why I don't go promoting one.

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aberforth

Implementation of Open Source isn't easy, learning computers from scratch using Linux is quite a pain.

Originally Posted by aberforth

Using a companies own source to give credibility is a poor choice. It is as good as Microsoft 'third party' claims about how Windows Server is more stable than Linux, we know its just a staged situation.

So what? If someone writes a good testimonial abt a company then ofcors it will be published in company's sources. Isn't it? And if kids can learn Ubuntu easily, then IMHO elders shud have no problem!

Its all about what u used first and what r u accustomed to. But if u have to install service packs to "actually" use the O.S flawlessly then I guess that O.S really defines the threshold of pain.

Originally Posted by aberforth

Linux has complex solutions to simple problems which either don't exist or take a snap in Windows and Mac.

Originally Posted by aberforth

Old and same argument which never helps a person convert to Linux. From a non-geek's point of view it doesn't matter even if CIA uses Linux as their requirement (stability, security) is different from ours.

Please check first what u talked about! Requirement is a different area. Likewise I can give arguments how windows has "complex solutions" to simple problems.

Originally Posted by aberforth

In web servers and high demand systems scaled down versions of Linux are used with settings which are planets away from desktops and laptops which are multipurpose, good looking, easy to use machines.

Who told u that?

Originally Posted by aberforth

A space shuttle or medical sensor doesn't need to download wallpapers and play encrypted DVDs but I do.

I know that. What r u trying to prove then? Atleast these space shuttles have real time O.S that can be Unix/linux/BSD etc. Can u tell how popular r windows realtime O.S r with such technological fields?

Originally Posted by aberforth

All these stuff are easier in Windows because

1> A lot of applications are available and you don't have to go through countless manuals and hoops to install them.
2> Mp3s, DVDs play out of the box without cryptic messages why it couldn't playback...
3> I don't have to download 30 MB of dependencies to install a 5 MB software which is often a pain in my average speed connection
4> Almost every average person can troubleshoot windows or help us find out whats wrong, forget Microsoft support - tech supports are a pain anyway.

Same old argument from someone who lacks experience with linux. I told earlier too that I gave replies to such points in Win Vs linux debate. Neways, tell me when did u first used windows? Were u able to do simple tasks like installing all by urself? Were u able to install windows urself? Did u know the difference between partition and hardisk at that time? There r many questions like that. And for majority of people its answer is NO. So talking similarly about linux and expecting a YES is quite absurd. (Absurd is not an offensive term)

Neways,
1>And where do u need to have manuals today for linuxes? Aren't rpms and debs same like windows setup files. Not to forget the commandline installations that can ease ur task in one go, or the synaptic manager specially for noobies like u! Does windows give u the freedom like that to choose what u need? Everything that is popular and the best is there in repositories today and for windows u have to read online what is good and what is best and then download it, buy it, install it and may even crack it to actually use it.

2>Tell me when u first installed windows without any spare parts i.e service packs, were u abt to watch DVDs? It wud be miracle if u say yes. I dunno why cryptic messeges bother u so much. After all if u r used to reformats,reinstallations, BSODs, crashes, warnings...etc, then this should be a molecule of a piece of cake for u to swallow.

And if u r familiar with programming then u wud have never talked about such things like cryptic messeges which form an integral part of error handling and shud be there. Atleast it doesn't have have 1000s of BSODs like windows

3> And u can download n install 50 MB of norton, 10 MB of winzip and winrar, 20 MB of winamp, 100s of MB on windows updates , spend money to install office, install drivers separately for all the hardware one by one ejecting the cd tray after every driver installation. And all this isn't a pain for u on ur "average speed connection"?

4>This is where Linux teaches u the definition of the term "freedom".

Originally Posted by aberforth

As much as I hate to think, Linux and other free alternatives haven't been as easy for a normal home or pleasure user as OS X or Windows. Thats one of the roadblock for a person to convert - I have been out there and have experienced it. I use both Linux and Windows and I have both as it know the advantages and drawbacks of both which is why I don't go promoting one.

AS said before, it all depends with which OS u r used to. I can never compare A Mac with windows unless and untill I have some years of experience with it. If u compare them without having a nice experience then only thing u r left to say is "Oh, I didn't know about that!".

I have a great experience with linux and the only roadblock I know is "gaming"! Thats why I say that even my brother who is a harcore gamer and used to say that linux is this n that, has really started to experiment with linux now. He does most of the end-users tasks on linux now, but switches to windows for gaming only. IMHO non-gamers shud have no problem in switching to linux now!

Neways lets not deviate it to Linux Vs windows discussion!

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by mediator

So what? If someone writes a good testimonial abt a company then ofcors it will be published in company's sources. Isn't it? And if kids can learn Ubuntu easily, then IMHO elders shud have no problem!

Fact is kids are more receptive than elders, the more you grow up from the age 21 the lower your receptin power goes thats a fact you'll realise once you go ahead in years.

Second company sources aren't 100% truth, usually the criticism is hidden. Just like if you want to know Linux vs Windows, it'd be a bad idea to go one track to check MS site.

Originally Posted by mediator

Its all about what u used first and what r u accustomed to. But if u have to install service packs to "actually" use the O.S flawlessly then I guess that O.S really defines the threshold of pain.

Most new OEM PCs and Windows XP CDs have SP2 integrated so all you need to do is use it our of the box. To use Linux flawlessly we need MP3 codecs, DVD codecs, modified XINE engine. From the security patches and update front Linux isn't immune to it. Installing and updating softwares is quite a pain and there is no running away from it.

Originally Posted by mediator

Who told u that?

I don't know why someone has to tell me that as I have been running a VPS server using RHEL for 2 years. Thats a fact, a server is a command line, scaled down version of Linux. You can install GUI, VLC Player etc - but they wouldn't do any good except eating up your RAM, CPU and diskspace while you need them all in a laptop, you couldn't watch DVDs using Apache and MySQL.

Originally Posted by mediator

Can u tell how popular r windows realtime O.S r with such technological fields?

Chances are, you learned computers from Windows and then moved on to Linux. Windows can't offer the same utility to a satellite because of course vulnerabilities and stability issues. By the way the London Stock Exchange one of the world largest and busiest runs on Windows Server 2003 and IIS 6.0, check that out in a 'third party' Microsoft site.

Originally Posted by mediator

Same old argument from someone who lacks experience with linux.

Excuse me, I lack experience with Linux? Does handling 5 websites on Apache server using Linux for two years count as inexperience? Is that how you debate, by making a sort of "You are ignorant so listen to what I say" comment?

Originally Posted by mediator

Aren't rpms and debs same like windows setup files.

RPMs aren't available for all softwares I need. For example, the latest version of Firefox, the latest ALSA drivers (without which my laptop sound doesnt work). Plus a lot of 5 MB or less RPMS need a hell of of dependencies to install which you have to search an hour to find them.

Originally Posted by mediator

Atleast it doesn't have have 1000s of BSODs like windows

Thats exaggeration. If you run Windows XP SP2 chances of BSODs are so little you'd probably die before 1000 of them occured. At least a software install doesn't break my Windows that I have to reinstall it all over again.

Originally Posted by mediator

And u can download n install 50 MB of norton, 10 MB of winzip and winrar, 20 MB of winamp, 100s of MB on windows updates , spend money to install office, install drivers separately for all the hardware one by one ejecting the cd tray after every driver installation. And all this isn't a pain for u on ur "average speed connection"?

Lets see...8 reinstalls of OpenSUSE (forget about 15 of FC5), 15 timeouts trying to add a repository in Yast last time, an hour adding a list (OSS Repo), another hour downloading the codec and libdvdcss to enable it to play DVD and Mp3 (bare essential), another 3 hours to update openSUSE, recompiling and installing ALSA to get my sound working, not being able to play the games I want..... OpenSUSE is great after it all got working but I had to waste a week to reach that stage. If I were a first time Linux users, I'd have hated it for life....like some of my Windows friends do.

Originally Posted by mediator

This is where Linux teaches u the definition of the term "freedom".

You mean tied up to your PC for a week to get it to work and do basic stuff is freedom? A person doesn't need Linux to learn the definition of freedom, do you mean to say before tha advent of Linux people were slaves all along?


I am a Linux user too, I have OpenSUSE running but fact is fact. You can't go calling every Windows user nooby or MS 'fanboy' and expect them to hit forma t C:. Linux is still way to go to invade everyone's desktop, not just because of marketing of MS but the ease of using Windows in a desktop or laptop for a non-geek. I have seen the other side promoting Linux to my friends and trying a full switch on my laptop, both didn't work. I still have Windows MCE and OpenSUSE side by side and my friends removed this a"waste of 10 GB" from their HDD. Try out with your friends who aren't from a CS, Engg. or software background.

[Chrono Cr@cker]

LOL! Nice one there.. The fact is that most of the developing countries can't afford original software, especially those ridiculously priced like MS Office. [Openoffice rocks btw]. This holds true in most of the devp countries - India, China, Brazil, etc.

~ CC

[eddie]

Originally Posted by Aberforth

The psychology of addiction is different from customer choices. Addicts usually don't have alternatives and are physically dependent on drugs while a software customer isn't.

A technical person sitting on D.G.M.'s post in a telecom company once asked me whether Linux had "Windows like environment". When I asked him, you mean GUI? He agreed and had no idea what Linux is. If you still want to argue that "Operating System" customers have choices, the know about, then I just have my stunned silence for you

For example if Clinic Plus shampoo is priced at Rs.1000 tomorrow customers wouldn't pay their blood to get hold of it, they'd just switch to another brand.

Comparing an OS for a PC to Shampoo in a person's life is less than smart imho. If you would have compared it to Air we breathe, then I could have understood but OS is not as trivial as shampoo. Think about it. If tomorrow somehow all Air is sucked out and sold in cylinders at a price. Then what would happen? I give you two choices, either pay huge amount for the Air you are used to breathe (Windows) or I will give you free air but with a funny smell and weird colour (Linux). What will happen now? Don't you think lots of customers will be there buying Air in cylinders...not because it has extra powers but because people are used to it and they don't want to move to the funny smelling one?

As far as Linux vs Windows in usability is concerned. Well I can accompany Mediator and reply to every point you give, but as I am one of the people who are in "very good books" of Mods, I wouldn't risk getting banned

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by eddie

If you still want to argue that "Operating System" customers have choices, the know about, then I just have my stunned silence for you

When you install one of the most popular distro on a person's computer and have him calling you to remove it at once from his computer, well you get the picture. Its a matter of choice, why bother a new OS which needs a lot of work getting to...when the existing one is easier and most of the things a normal user needs comes out of the box.

Originally Posted by eddie

Don't you think lots of customers will be there buying Air in cylinders...not because it has extra powers but because people are used to it and they don't want to move to the funny smelling one?

No I don't agree. People would get used to that 'funny' smell and still get air for free. You know, its human psychology, we don't want to pay for things which we need most. The selling of air using cylinders as a choice for different smell would be a failure.


Do you know why Macs are so popular with girls? Because of usability (not looks as some would think, Macs aren't that good looking). Being different 'smell' did not make Macs get the boot...the same way it is for Windows. It is not 'getting used to' factor which matters but the usability o ease of use which matters. In time, Linux would manage that, the stability of UNIX with an easy to use interface - that would be the time it sheds it's 'geeky' image and hit average Joe's desktop. Think like an average Joe when making a software, not like a software engineer (unless you target market is engineers).

Originally Posted by eddie

Comparing an OS for a PC to Shampoo in a person's life is less than smart imho.

Is it? So an OS in a computer is as important to a person's life as is air? That would be an argument if you are a geek, imho.

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aberforth

Fact is kids are more receptive than elders, the more you grow up from the age 21 the lower your receptin power goes thats a fact you'll realise once you go ahead in years.

Thats just an excuse for saying that manuals r too hard to read! If that was the case, then we might be having kids as system admins, network admins etc! Its the similar case that old people lose their brains at the age of 60-70 and go nuts. But why r they made company,countries leaders then?

Originally Posted by aberforth

Second company sources aren't 100% truth, usually the criticism is hidden. Just like if you want to know Linux vs Windows, it'd be a bad idea to go one track to check MS site.

U talked about complexity and pain. I wanted to refer to that. Why r u deviating the subject? On the other hand u r also criticing linux and favouring windows but then again ur hiding something i.e criticism,disadvantages of windows which I explained before! How can an OS be used relaibly and freely when u have to spend ur time more on reformats,reinstalls,maintainence work,all sorts of scannings, defragmentation?

Originally Posted by aberforth

Most new OEM PCs and Windows XP CDs have SP2 integrated so all you need to do is use it our of the box. To use Linux flawlessly we need MP3 codecs, DVD codecs, modified XINE engine.

"Most new"? What about the rest of the people who bought original XP without SP2? U r just again making an excuse!
Well to make a full stop on ur codecs issue then, try distros like diabolic linux, linux mint etc which all have codec etc preinstalled. And if that still doesnt gives u pleasure, then go ahead get the propreitary linux distros that will give u ALL but at a price.

Originally Posted by aberforth

From the security patches and update front Linux isn't immune to it.

May be thats why they r used in servers so much?

Originally Posted by aberforth

Installing and updating softwares is quite a pain and there is no running away from it.

Well if u made up ur mind to hate linux even when I showed u how easy it actually is then what can I say?

Originally Posted by aberforth

I don't know why someone has to tell me that as I have been running a VPS server using RHEL for 2 years. Thats a fact, a server is a command line, scaled down version of Linux. You can install GUI, VLC Player etc - but they wouldn't do any good except eating up your RAM, CPU and diskspace while you need them all in a laptop, you couldn't watch DVDs using Apache and MySQL.

Why do u mix things? Do I say like to use windows home edition as a major server? U talked about servers having scaled down linux. Eating up RAM, CPU etc is a totally different matter. servers can be home servers, small company servers or major international servers. They can have 128 MB RAM/600MHz or 2 GB RAM/duo core 2.8 GHz. Multimedia Applications can be installed and used if latter server is used for home and small company! It seems ur experience isn't so well with servers afterall!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Chances are, you learned computers from Windows and then moved on to Linux. Windows can't offer the same utility to a satellite because of course vulnerabilities and stability issues. By the way the London Stock Exchange one of the world largest and busiest runs on Windows Server 2003 and IIS 6.0, check that out in a 'third party' Microsoft site.

Now look whose giving the info from "company's own sources" and hiding the criticism!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Excuse me, I lack experience with Linux? Does handling 5 websites on Apache server using Linux for two years count as inexperience? Is that how you debate, by making a sort of "You are ignorant so listen to what I say" comment?

Thats not my comment here!
Neways, 2 yrs of experience on servers...and u still say absurd things about linux? As I said, u must be lacking quality experience then. U say u have experience in "servers" and still u talk about crypted messeges, talk about SP2 prefitted like spare parts etc? How contradictig to the experience of a server manager!

Originally Posted by aberforth

RPMs aren't available for all softwares I need. For example, the latest version of Firefox, the latest ALSA drivers (without which my laptop sound doesnt work). Plus a lot of 5 MB or less RPMS need a hell of of dependencies to install which you have to search an hour to find them.

U r again mixing the topics! Ease of installation is different then availability of drivers! Neways I too had a hard time when I installed the hardware drivers of my bro's latest PC. It gave all kinds of BSODs. The problem fixed only after a month or so when updates were available! Since u manage the servers u shud be knowing such things about latest drivers! And about firefox I dunno why u didn't have the rpm, coz most members here had that!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Thats exaggeration. If you run Windows XP SP2 chances of BSODs are so little you'd probably die before 1000 of them occured. At least a software install doesn't break my Windows that I have to reinstall it all over again.

No exaggeration from my side. Since u explained ur problems, I have given them too! There r many here in this forum that have experience the same miserable fate as mine!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Lets see...8 reinstalls of OpenSUSE (forget about 15 of FC5), 15 timeouts trying to add a repository in Yast last time, an hour adding a list (OSS Repo), another hour downloading the codec and libdvdcss to enable it to play DVD and Mp3 (bare essential), another 3 hours to update openSUSE, recompiling and installing ALSA to get my sound working, not being able to play the games I want..... OpenSUSE is great after it all got working but I had to waste a week to reach that stage. If I were a first time Linux users, I'd have hated it for life....like some of my Windows friends do.

I dunno how kids and many noobies here in OPENSOURCE with age ranging bet 14-18 or less found it easier than u! R u saying u lost ur "receptiveness"?

Originally Posted by aberforth

You mean tied up to your PC for a week to get it to work and do basic stuff is freedom?

Nope, I meant to freely work for next 5-10 yrs after it gets installed and configured. ATleast its way better than getting tied up to ur pc to make it work flawlessly AFTER u have installed it!

Originally Posted by aberforth

I am a Linux user too, I have OpenSUSE running but fact is fact. You can't go calling every Windows user nooby or MS 'fanboy' and expect them to hit forma t C:.

Nope I don't call anyone like that. I agree windows is easy, but for me TODAY linux is easier.

Originally Posted by aberforth

Linux is still way to go to invade everyone's desktop, not just because of marketing of MS but the ease of using Windows in a desktop or laptop for a non-geek.

As I stated plethora of times before, ease of use is also governed by how much u have to maintain ur OS, scan ur OS, defrag ur OS..etc. If ur talking of the end-users task, then obviously for me and for many people in this forum and out of this forum linux is far more easier than windows today! And if u participate actively in open source section, then u'll urself witness how many "non-geeks" term it as awesome and easy to use today.

Originally Posted by aberforth

I have seen the other side promoting Linux to my friends and trying a full switch on my laptop, both didn't work. I still have Windows MCE and OpenSUSE side by side and my friends removed this a"waste of 10 GB" from their HDD. Try out with your friends who aren't from a CS, Engg. or software background.

On contrary, U know what.....I was the first one in mah locality to use linux and now almost 60% of my friends from both IT and non-IT field have it on their desktop. So I have tried it on my friends who aren't from a CS, Engg. or software background. May be u didn't demonstrated linux nicely to ur friends.

Well as stated earlier its human nature to resist changes. But to make him use a different product the salesman has to demonstrate him a different product nicely to him. He gotta have experience to show others and make them use the product. U said u have 2 yrs of experience, but even a person with 1 yr of experience can show others the functionalities and potentials of linux and make them believe in it. Ur case is a little different.

I dunno why, but any noobie person, geek or non-geek who initiates a linux discussion with me face to face starts using linux after sometime!!

[eddie]

Originally Posted by Aberforth

When you install one of the most popular distro on a person's computer and have him calling you to remove it at once from his computer, well you get the picture. Its a matter of choice, why bother a new OS which needs a lot of work getting to...when the existing one is easier and most of the things a normal user needs comes out of the box.

And the reason given by the person must have been very intelligent as well? Would you be kind enough to tell us? And no..."Gaming" wouldn't stand...we already know that.

No I don't agree. People would get used to that 'funny' smell and still get air for free. You know, its human psychology, we don't want to pay for things which we need most. The selling of air using cylinders as a choice for different smell would be a failure.

Are you sure? You are already paying for water and your family must be using at least a 1000 liters of it daily!!! Is that not "most" for you? I don't see people in Delhi going to Yamuna and fetching their own buckets from it. People are used to getting water in their taps and are paying for it. What is there not to agree?

Do you know why Macs are so popular with girls? Because of usability (not looks as some would think, Macs aren't that good looking). Being different 'smell' did not make Macs get the boot...the same way it is for Windows.

Last I checked their market share was some where around 4.5% or even less? Is that how Macs are going to take over the world?

Is it? So an OS in a computer is as important to a person's life as is air? That would be an argument if you are a geek, imho.

Are you going to joke in here? OS is the lifeline of your PC dude. Is it not as important as air? Can you do anything without OS on your PC?

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by mediator

Its the similar case that old people lose their brains at the age of 60-70 and go nuts. But why r they made company,countries leaders then?

They are leaders for their knowledge, experience and wisdom, not because of their memory power. Understanding manuals of the size of telephone directories isn't the work of leaders....thats the work of engineers. And a person does not go nuts as they go older, they become more wise.

[QUOTE=mediator]How can an OS be used relaibly and freely when u have to spend ur time more on reformats,reinstalls,maintainence work,all sorts of scannings, defragmentation?[QUOTE=mediator]

You are going to the extreme like the usual Linux fans "Whatever linux is it is good you Microsoft fanboy". Well I know Windows has its defects but the fact is more than 80% of the world use it and all of them aren't idiots or gamers. Linux isn't free from maintenance, SUSE 10.2 crashes like hell, Linux has bugs too which need bugfixes, every three months or so a new version is released which means either a full upgrade of 600 MB+ or a mammoth 300 MB+ update. Plus install a 5 MB software which triggers another 20 MB dependency install....

Originally Posted by mediator

And if that still doesnt gives u pleasure, then go ahead get the propreitary linux distros that will give u ALL but at a price.

Nice idea. Let me think like a normal user. Why would I buy something when I have something I'm used to, works fine and comes preinstalled on my comp.? Why do I have to hunt for drivers, learn recompiling just because my hardware isn't in their database and drivers aren't available?

Originally Posted by mediator

May be thats why they r used in servers so much?

Security isn't the only reason Linux is used in servers. Its because of Apache, low resource consumption, stability....you would understand that if you clear your mind and think logically instead of "I don't want to hear anything against Linux" attitude. Brushing facts under the carpets gets them noticed by people who're looking behind you...gives a bad impression.

Originally Posted by mediator

Well if u made up ur mind to hate linux even when I showed u how easy it actually is then what can I say?

You talk like a child. Who told you I hate Linux? If I did I'd have Windows 2003 server for my sites and wouldn't have wasted 30 GB of my HDD for OpenSUSE in my laptop and wasted a week to get it to work. I want to point out the facts from the point of a non-Linux-obsessed person. If you think honesty is equal to hatred you have a long way to grow up.

Take it this way, you don't want English as national language, does that mean you hate English?

Originally Posted by mediator

Multimedia Applications can be installed and used if latter server is used for home and small company! It seems ur experience isn't so well with servers afterall!

I mean a serious production environment, not for practice in your home or to host a blog visited by XX person a day. I am talking of busy sites which have traffic 24/7, ability to withstand DDoS attacks, ping of death, heavy load on database. My experience with servers is as much with dealing with Linux obsessed fans.

Originally Posted by mediator

Now look whose giving the info from "company's own sources" and hiding the criticism!

Did you understand now? Company sources aren't trusted reviews and I gave this unintrusively so that you put your foot in your mouth.

Originally Posted by mediator

Neways, 2 yrs of experience on servers...and u still say absurd things about linux?

I pointed out honest facts, problems faced by a normal user when migrating to Linux on his PC. Maybe I should just say, "Oh MS is so friggin crap with 1000 BSODs, promotes slavery,...Linux is all great its perfect"

Originally Posted by mediator

U say u have experience in "servers" and still u talk about crypted messeges

Excuse me, did I say I can't understand the messages. I said a normal user can't and Linux developers have to understand that and make it more user friendly, not restrict it to people who are obsessed with tinkering their computers. I think you keep shooting your foot by making personal comments on people.

Originally Posted by mediator

Nope, I meant to freely work for next 5-10 yrs after it gets installed and configured.

Really? Tell me the last distro which lasted 5 year without an upgrade. It'll be either obsolete or developers abandoned the project.

Originally Posted by mediator

Nope I don't call anyone like that.

Translation - No I like insulting people's upbringing, intelligence, age, experience if I find my views challenged because I don't like losing face.

Originally Posted by mediator

I was the first one in mah locality to use linux

That must have made you really proud of yourself

Originally Posted by mediator

Well as stated earlier its human nature to resist changes.

Resistance to changes isn't the only motivation a person decides against alternatives. The alternative must give him/her the ability to do what he/she was able to do earlier without going through a harrowing experience.

Originally Posted by mediator

I dunno why, but any noobie person, geek or non-geek who initiates a linux discussion with me face to face starts using linux after sometime!

I have been using Linux since 2003 and I like to talk to people about their Linux experiences, understand them and point the points to Linux developers and communities so that they rectify and improve based of feedback and capacity. Thankfully and fortunately they are sane and like to respect opinions and bring about improvements, which made OpenSUSE and Ubuntu what they are today. Change is necessary and resistance to change brings in complacency. You have to think like a businessman to sell your wares, not like a fan.

Originally Posted by eddie

And the reason given by the person must have been very intelligent as well?

The person's reason was sane, "I could do all I can on Windows and its already there on my PC. I am not an IT guy or need servers like you so why should I waste 10 GB and do so much work to make it play DVDs and MP3s?"
He pointed out the gaming part too but since you didn't want that I left it out.

Now say.."God that guy is so freaking capitalist noob"

Originally Posted by eddie

You are already paying for water and your family must be using at least a 1000 liters of it daily!

I am not paying a paisa for water but for the service. The water department spends electricity and toils so that I don't have to go to Yamuna and pick water myself (which would be more expensive by the way). When you talk on phone do you pay for your friend's voice or you pay for providing the service which enables him/her to talk with you?

Originally Posted by eddie

Last I checked their market share was some where around 4.5% or even less? Is that how Macs are going to take over the world?

Macs have a lot of drawbacks like being proprietary, being tied to a hardware, expensive...etc. But let us not forget they have their advantages too< Mac OSX is easier to use, more stable and has more features than Windows. Of course this advantage doesn't matter to me, which is why I'm typing this from an HP instead of a Macbook.

Originally Posted by eddie

Are you going to joke in here? OS is the lifeline of your PC dude. Is it not as important as air? Can you do anything without OS on your PC?

Why the change of heart. First you say it is important to a person's life, now you say its important to my PC. I can live without a particular OS, if I don't like Windows I have the choice to use Linux which I do because Linux has something Windows lack. But say, you don't like the monopoly Oxyzen has on your life...can you migrate to nitrogen tomorrow? Some things have a choice and some things don't you cannot interrelate them.

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aberforth

They are leaders for their knowledge, experience and wisdom, not because of their memory power. Understanding manuals of the size of telephone directories isn't the work of leaders....thats the work of engineers. And a person does not go nuts as they go older, they become more wise.

Ofcors! Likewise people like u and me can read manuals better than kids and understand them better. U obviously cannot teach quantum physics to kids can u? But if kids can learn linux easily, then what stops u?

Originally Posted by aberforth

You are going to the extreme like the usual Linux fans "Whatever linux is it is good you Microsoft fanboy". Well I know Windows has its defects but the fact is more than 80% of the world use it and all of them aren't idiots or gamers.

On one hand u say u have nice 2 yrs of experience with linux and then on other hand u talk so absurdly?
This world is full of drug addicts and people with unhygenic lifestyle, so shud u be like them? Don't u have ur own independent outlook? Or ur outlook is governed by someone else's? The people who have used windows r so much used to it that they really don't know what freedom is. May be u were unlucky when u switched to linux. Your case is rare.

Originally Posted by aberforth

Linux isn't free from maintenance, SUSE 10.2 crashes like hell, Linux has bugs too which need bugfixes, every three months or so a new version is released which means either a full upgrade of 600 MB+ or a mammoth 300 MB+ update. Plus install a 5 MB software which triggers another 20 MB dependency install....

Yea, I too faced crashes on Suse and thats one of the reason I dont use it. There r other distros available too. Try them!
Again I dought if u really have any experience with server management or linux! Bugs is an integral part of programming. There is no OS in world that is bug free. Remember Programmers r humans only!!

About the update part, why r u so worried about that? Isn't it good? A new distro means more drivers and better softwares. Its good to keep ur system updated, but even without updates home users really dont need to worry. Many of my friends have mandrake 10, fedora 4, ubuntu 5.10 installed without any updates!! I too still have FC5 installed without any updates and still experience the freedom. Its unlike windows that u have to install service packs to do ur work with less tension!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Nice idea. Let me think like a normal user. Why would I buy something when I have something I'm used to, works fine and comes preinstalled on my comp.? Why do I have to hunt for drivers, learn recompiling just because my hardware isn't in their database and drivers aren't available?

Old statment!
Neways then buy something on which u spend more time on maintaining,defraging etc then doing the actual work. Buy the closed source stuff at a price that may make u bankrupt and install closed source stuff on it like norton which was found to be using rootkits. Its ur choice.
I see u surely have a lotta trust in closed source softwares!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Security isn't the only reason Linux is used in servers. Its because of Apache, low resource consumption, stability....you would understand that if you clear your mind and think logically instead of "I don't want to hear anything against Linux" attitude. Brushing facts under the carpets gets them noticed by people who're looking behind you...gives a bad impression.

If that was the case then why aren't the windows servers with apache so popular? U r right, u really need to clear ur mind and think logically instead of talking off-topic things and making comments now!

Originally Posted by aberforth

You talk like a child. Who told you I hate Linux? If I did I'd have Windows 2003 server for my sites and wouldn't have wasted 30 GB of my HDD for OpenSUSE in my laptop and wasted a week to get it to work. I want to point out the facts from the point of a non-Linux-obsessed person. If you think honesty is equal to hatred you have a long way to grow up.

But ur behaving like a toddler! I agree, that ur being honest in showing ur inexperience and ignorance in full glory here!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Take it this way, you don't want English as national language, does that mean you hate English?

I thought u'll be mature by now, but it seems u have made a habit to mix points and talk off-topic subjects. If that was an analogy then atleast learn to give appropriate analogies! Grow up....

Originally Posted by aberforth

I mean a serious production environment, not for practice in your home or to host a blog visited by XX person a day. I am talking of busy sites which have traffic 24/7, ability to withstand DDoS attacks, ping of death, heavy load on database. My experience with servers is as much with dealing with Linux obsessed fans.

Ur inexperience is in full glory here! Ever heard of firewalls? I hope u know how many types of firewalls exist then! DDos attacks, ping of deaths etc aren't transferred to main server just like that! Please update ur knowledge about servers n firewalls so that wecan have a serious discussion!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Did you understand now? Company sources aren't trusted reviews and I gave this unintrusively so that you put your foot in your mouth.

But i still don't understand that if kids can find it easy, then how come the so "experienced" aberforth is finding it so difficult? Please increase ur receptiveness before its too late!

Originally Posted by aberforth

I pointed out honest facts, problems faced by a normal user when migrating to Linux on his PC. Maybe I should just say, "Oh MS is so friggin crap with 1000 BSODs, promotes slavery,...Linux is all great its perfect"

It wud have been better if u had said that u pointed to ur lack of receptiveness,inexperience and confused attitude!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Excuse me, did I say I can't understand the messages. I said a normal user can't and Linux developers have to understand that and make it more user friendly, not restrict it to people who are obsessed with tinkering their computers. I think you keep shooting your foot by making personal comments on people.

Then next time say more clearly. It seemed like u get soo annoyed with cryptic messeges! BTW, I dunno whats so cryptic in them! I bet BSODs are far more cryptic then any other error handling messeges......"Error occured at 0x00FF memory location" and all the s**t! Yea right, so user friendly!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Really? Tell me the last distro which lasted 5 year without an upgrade. It'll be either obsolete or developers abandoned the project.

Again ur ignorance in full glory! U can find many servers on net which r still on RH9, people that still use CLI of outdated distros. And ofcors it will become obsolete, but it will still provide u the freedom to do ur task!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Translation - No I like insulting people's upbringing, intelligence, age, experience if I find my views challenged because I don't like losing face.

Translation - Don't keep on posting off-topic replies and make others laugh on u continously again n again! If u do that they will eventually stop having even pity on u!

Originally Posted by aberforth

That must have made you really proud of yourself

Different! And I was glad that I really started something different.

Originally Posted by aberforth

Resistance to changes isn't the only motivation a person decides against alternatives. The alternative must give him/her the ability to do what he/she was able to do earlier without going through a harrowing experience.

Exactly! And if u can do things more reliably,securely and freely!

Originally Posted by aberforth

I have been using Linux since 2003 and I like to talk to people about their Linux experiences, understand them and point the points to Linux developers and communities so that they rectify and improve based of feedback and capacity. Thankfully and fortunately they are sane and like to respect opinions and bring about improvements, which made OpenSUSE and Ubuntu what they are today. Change is necessary and resistance to change brings in complacency. You have to think like a businessman to sell your wares, not like a fan.

And then u term the people who agree with u as sane and who have more experience then u and find linux easier as fanboys? What an ideology!


BTW, I see u r constantly calling me a fanboy. How contradicting, as I myself have stated plethora of times that Linux needs improvement in gaming department. Please increase ur receptiveness next time before its too late!

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by mediator

Ofcors! Likewise people like u and me can read manuals better than kids and understand them better. U obviously cannot teach quantum physics to kids can u? But if kids can learn linux easily, then what stops u?

Think. For an average computer user why would he use Linux if on the first place he had to read manuals. Just the fact that a person has to waste time reading and understanding instruction to read a manual does not sound like an easy OS unless he is a geek does it? Would you like to read a 200 page manual to be able to watch a movie with a 3 star rating?

Originally Posted by mediator

This world is full of drug addicts and people with unhygenic lifestyle, so shud u be like them? Don't u have ur own independent outlook? Or ur outlook is governed by someone else's? The people who have used windows r so much used to it that they really don't know what freedom is. May be u were unlucky when u switched to linux. Your case is rare.

Look mediator a person's freedom isn't governed by his choice of OS and I do not consider him or her to be an idiot. Knowing freedom doesn't translate to using Linux, check a dictionary to look up what freedom is defined as. You are doing what an extremist does, all you care is "Linux is perfect and everything else is crap". I got Linux to work after many tries but other people found it futile to try so hard to get something to work when their Windows works just fine. Maybe you haven't met or seen people whose life doesn't revolve around computers that all they care is the OS which runs their PC. I actually have an independent outlook and see points to view other than mine but maybe insulting people in computers gives you pleasure in your frustrating life. That does make me pity you...

Originally Posted by mediator

Again I dought if u really have any experience with server management or linux! Bugs is an integral part of programming. There is no OS in world that is bug free. Remember Programmers r humans only!!

Where did the perfect, stable, bug free OS go? Is the cuckoo singing a different tune? Maybe it gives you some kind of self importance to argue with insults like hell on anything.

Originally Posted by mediator

A new distro means more drivers and better softwares

You said you have to waste bandwidth downloading SP2 and patches in Windows and conveniently forget bandwidth wastage in downloading a whole new distro in Linux. If Windows wastes 250 MB for patches and upgrades its bad bad bad, while if Linux needs a 3 Gb upgrade, well its good. Linux can never be bad, is it?

Originally Posted by mediator

Buy the closed source stuff at a price that may make u bankrupt and install closed source stuff on it like norton which was found to be using rootkits.

Windows comes preinstalled in PCs users don't have to bother buying it. Norton isn't the only virus, there are AVG and Avast which work just as fine and do not contain rootkits.

Originally Posted by mediator

If that was the case then why aren't the windows servers with apache so popular? U r right, u really need to clear ur mind and think logically instead of talking off-topic things and making comments now!

Apache is a port in Windows Server 2003, it can't be integrated like it can be done on Linux, boy. So are PHP and MySQL, both act as ports in Windows and are a module in *NIX OSs. Learn about servers before you make rude and flaming arguments.

Originally Posted by mediator

But ur behaving like a toddler! I agree, that ur being honest in showing ur inexperience and ignorance in full glory here!

Is insulting without logical and factual arguments all you can do? Not the first time I see...last time you go an insult another person's parental values and sanity just because he sounded like a fanboy.

Originally Posted by mediator

I hope u know how many types of firewalls exist then!

Do you understand what is a VPS. Its Virtual Private server, and I don't own the company's data center. If they do not implement hardware firewalls, a DDoS attack fragmented from several locations can be carried out to overload the SQL server which results in SQL errors and software firewalls can't help much. Oh...I forgot its all rocket science to you. You can't stand people beating you with facts...come on, another insult please....

Originally Posted by mediator

It wud have been better if u had said that u pointed to ur lack of receptiveness,inexperience and confused attitude!

Well last time I checked you know nothing about me and you aren't my resident psychologist. You need to stop fancying yourself a psychologist and perhaps than you'll realise that having more than one OS choices don't make a person confused; inexperience isn't synonym for knowledge and facts; and confusion doesn't stem up from understanding pluses and minuses of something and accepting the fact.

Originally Posted by mediator

Translation - Don't keep on posting off-topic replies and make others laugh on u continously again n again!

Wake up and look around. The only one who gets laughed at and pulls a topic out of focus is you with your creative skills at insulting.

Originally Posted by mediator

Different! And I was glad that I really started something different.

Well then congrats boy, party with your computer.

Originally Posted by mediator

Exactly! And if u can do things more reliably,securely and freely!

Home users don't need the security of NASA, nor do they need all the freedom to code their software. What they want is usability. You can use FreeDOS which is secure, reliable and free but that wouldn't have much use for average Joe.

Originally Posted by mediator

And then u term the people who agree with u as sane and who have more experience then u and find linux easier as fanboys? What an ideology!

If insulting a person's sanity, parentage, upbringing, experience, age and maturity for an OS choice isn't fanboyism, tell me mediator, what the hell is fanboyism? Do you really think experience in life counts as experience in Linux? Perhaps you haven't seen a life beyond computers, get out and get some fresh air.

Originally Posted by mediator

Please increase ur receptiveness next time before its too late!

What will happen if its too late man? Are you some kind of threatening me? And please do find the place where I called you a fanboy. Maybe you need to learn accusing others will make you a loser in real life.

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aberforth

Think. For an average computer user why would he use Linux if on the first place he had to read manuals. Just the fact that a person has to waste time reading and understanding instruction to read a manual does not sound like an easy OS unless he is a geek does it? Would you like to read a 200 page manual to be able to watch a movie with a 3 star rating?

Ur habit of repeating hasn't gone! Neways please visit OPENSOURCE more often from now on and witness the absence of manuals in noobs experience! I told u about diabolic linux, linux mint..etc that play movie with 3 star ratings without having anything to download from net! But still u come back to repeat ignorant point of urs?

Originally Posted by aberforth

Look mediator a person's freedom isn't governed by his choice of OS and I do not consider him or her to be an idiot. You are doing what an extremist does, all you care is "Linux is good and everything else is crap". I actually have an independent outlook maybe insulting people in computers gives you pleasure in your frustrating life. Well I pity you now.

Be my guest! Neways where did I say linux is best for gaming. Can u elaborate? Please stop making all of us laugh on u now! Increase ur quick fading receptiveness fast!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Where did the perfect, stable, bug free OS go? Is the cuckoo singing a different tune? Maybe it gives you some kind of self importance to argue with insults like hell on anything.

Hehe, r u drugged? Whats a bug free OS in reality?

Originally Posted by aberforth

You said you have to waste bandwidth downloading SP2 and patches in Windows and conveniently forget bandwidth wastage in downloading a whole new distro in Linux. If Windows wastes 250 MB for patches and upgrades its bad bad bad, while if Linux needs a 3 Gb upgrade, well its good. Linux can never be bad, is it?

Ur low receptiveness is ailing u a lot! Well cud u use windows flawlessly when it was released? Compare that to linux! and then sing the tune of "bad bad bad" or wateva haullucinations r comin in ur ailing mind!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Windows comes preinstalled in PCs users don't have to bother buying it. Norton isn't the only virus, there are AVG and Avast which work just as fine and do not contain rootkits.

Ur saying absurdly like preinstalled cost isn't included and ur getting it like free as in free beer! Neways about norton it seems ur so happy that there r other choices. Who knows that those other choices may be using rootkits too, but haven't been discovered yet......closed source! There r many such closed source apps found u wud have known about if u had cared to stay in touch with latest technological news!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Apache is a port in Windows Server 2003, it can't be integrated like it can be done on Linux, boy. So are PHP and MySQL, both act as ports in Windows and are a module in *NIX OSs. Learn about servers before you make rude and flaming arguments.

A toddler telling others to learn about servers? U talked about "Apache, low resource consumption, stability" and denied linux's role in it. Please read ur posts before mixing the things n staging ur full fledged mindless drama again!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Is insulting without logical and factual arguments all you can do? Not the first time I see...last time you go an insult another person's parental values and sanity just because he sounded like a fanboy.

Alas! U don't even know what insults are! Thats why I say to increase ur receptiveness! A person not agreeing to u also sounds an insult to u. What a tragedy with ur life!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Do you understand what is a VPS. Its Virtual Private server, and I don't own the company's data center. If they do not implement hardware firewalls, a DDoS attack fragmented from several locations can be carried out to overload the SQL server which results in SQL errors and software firewalls can't help much. Oh...I forgot its all rocket science to you. You can't stand people beating you with facts...come on, another insult please....

Then why dont they implement firewall? Shudn't u be telling them that?
In ur definition of insult u asked for urself => ignorant and inexperienced!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Well last time I checked you know nothing about me and you aren't my resident psychologist. You need to stop fancying yourself a psychologist and perhaps than you'll realise that having more than one OS choices don't make a person confused; inexperience isn't synonym for knowledge and facts; and confusion doesn't stem up from understanding pluses and minuses of something and accepting the fact.

Huh, I thought u'll be telling me about shakespeare this time to ackowledge everyone of ur another mindless off-topic replies!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Wake up and look around.

And I see I'm debating with a toddler!

Originally Posted by aberforth

The only one who gets laughed at and pulls a topic out of focus is you with your creative skills at insulting.

Sure. Happy now! I hope I can make a toddler happy this way!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Well then congrats boy, party with your computer.

Thanx!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Home users don't need the security of NASA, nor do they need all the freedom to code their software. What they want is usability. You can use FreeDOS which is secure, reliable and free but that wouldn't have much use for average Joe.

Jokes2000.com is better for u to joke around!

Originally Posted by aberforth

If insulting a person's sanity, parentage, upbringing, experience, age and maturity for an OS choice isn't fanboyism, tell me mediator, what the hell is fanboyism?

Its terrible when such an egoistic and proud person with a false sense of having good experience himself asks such a stupid question! Increase ur receptiveness and u'll urself know.

Originally Posted by aberforth

Mediator, you are making yourself look bad all over the forum with your behavior and trust me this isn't the way you go around the world. All you get is in a forum is a bad repo or worse..a ban but the best you get in the real world when you say something like that is a slap. Did you ever noticed you catch up a fight with someone who doesn't agree with you and you start a barrage of personal insults. You might have poor vocabulary which makes you misunderstand at best and an arrogant I-am-the-best attitude at worst. You are good at one thing - insulting and pissing off others and believe me, no one thinks its a positive skill except maybe mentally deranged persons. Do you know there is a way to debate with real cold facts without resorting to insults and personal comments to try to discredit a person? Do you there is something under the sun called constructive argument and there are many choices a person could exercise depending on his/her needs? Maybe your mind can't process the relevance of this to your arguement, if it can't use the help of a person who has the power to think and analyze.

Another one of ur mindless off-topic post. Grow up!

Since u cannot post proper, to the topic replies therefore next time I wanna hear about "life after death" or u can narrate me "sydney sheldon"!

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by mediator

...that play movie with 3 star ratings without having anything to download from net!

Man you can't even think beyond Linux and codecs. The analogy wasn't pointing to codecs I meant if an entertainment like a 3 star movie in a theater needed a 200 page manual would you go watch that movie? Well I am talking about normal brick-and-mortar theather not something virtual.

Originally Posted by mediator

Be my guest! Neways where did I say linux is best for gaming. Can u elaborate? Please stop making all of us laugh on u now! Increase ur quick fading receptiveness fast!

Does 'All of us" translate to me-myself-and-I?

Originally Posted by mediator

Hehe, r u drugged? Whats a bug free OS in reality?

Well I should ask you this considering you kept pointing in another thread Windows got flaws while Linux is perfect of it.

Originally Posted by mediator

Well cud u use windows flawlessly when it was released?

It works near flawlessly today, is easy to use, intuitive, OEM PC vendors support it, have all the drivers which can be installed using double clicks and at least doesn't make users flame everyone using other OSes.

Originally Posted by mediator

Who knows that those other choices may be using rootkits too, but haven't been discovered yet......closed source!

You get caught sooner or later if you hide stuff that shouldn't be there even if its closed source. There is something called reverse engineering and I could always check for kernel hooks to see if any rootkits hooked up.

Originally Posted by mediator

U talked about "Apache, low resource consumption, stability" and denied linux's role in it. Please read ur posts before mixing the things n staging ur full fledged mindless drama again!

Did I deny Linux's role in the stability of a server? Point out where I did or else this comment is dramatic bullshit.

Originally Posted by mediator

Then why dont they implement firewall? Shudn't u be telling them that?
In ur definition of insult u asked for urself => ignorant and inexperienced!

If a data center where I rented out a VPS doesn't want to implement firewall, its not my thing to start flaming their mothers and sisters so that I don't face DDoS attacks on my server. Maybe its normal to you to use abuse and insults to get your way but I don't want to dirty my mouth for such a little thing.

Originally Posted by mediator

A person not agreeing to u also sounds an insult to u.

Look at your own quotes below. Do these words sound like disagreements, mediator?

Originally Posted by mediator

....u had cared to stay in touch with latest technological news!

Originally Posted by mediator

haullucinations r comin in ur ailing mind!

Originally Posted by mediator

A toddler telling others to learn about servers?

Originally Posted by mediator

And I see I'm debating with a toddler!

Originally Posted by mediator

Sure. Happy now! I hope I can make a toddler happy this way!

Originally Posted by mediator

Its terrible when such an egoistic and proud person with a false sense of having good experience himself asks such a stupid question! Increase ur receptiveness and u'll urself know.

You have no idea if I read tech. news, you don't know the state of my mind, you keep calling me a toddler without any reasoning when in all probability I am older than you and you think they aren't insults? You either have no values or got too used to badmouthing or are a plain sick person. Do you see a world beyond computers boy?

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aberforth

Man you can't even think beyond Linux and codecs. The analogy wasn't pointing to codecs I meant if an entertainment like a 3 star movie in a theater needed a 200 page manual would you go watch that movie? Well I am talking about normal brick-and-mortar theather not something virtual.

Well u r the one who deviated the topic to Linux Vs windows and started talking about codecs! Now ur accusing me? How cute!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Does 'All of us" translate to me-myself-and-I?

Thats why I told u to increase ur receptiveness so that u stop asking such stupid questions!

Originally Posted by aberforth

Well I should ask you this considering you kept pointing in another thread Windows got flaws while Linux is perfect of it.

Yea, And I talked abt flaws that interrupts ur freedom!

Originally Posted by aberforth

It works near flawlessly today, is easy to use, intuitive, OEM PC vendors support it, have all the drivers which can be installed using double clicks and at least doesn't make users flame everyone using other OSes.

And u said I was a fanboy! So much sarcasm in ur posts! How tragic!

Originally Posted by aberforth

You get caught sooner or later if you hide stuff that shouldn't be there even if its closed source. There is something called reverse engineering and I could always check for kernel hooks to see if any rootkits hooked up.

U still behave like toddler. Neways go ahead and reverse engineer it, u may find a couple of rootkits. Neways if u were so ace in reverse engineering then ur name shud have been in front list of reverse engineers! Please do try to reverse engineer some of the softwares I use. I'll provide u a list then!

Originally Posted by aberforth

If a data center where I rented out a VPS doesn't want to implement firewall, its not my thing to start flaming their mothers and sisters so that I don't face DDoS attacks on my server. Maybe its normal to you to use abuse and insults to get your way but I don't want to dirty my mouth for such a little thing.

Its like using windows without antivirus! And then u talk about "scaled down version n all" so mindlessly! R u sure ur not lying?

Originally Posted by aberforth

Look at your own quotes below. Do these words sound like disagreements, mediator?

Quite provoking! isn't it? Now read the thread from the start and check who started it all and deviated it all!

Originally Posted by aberforth

You have no idea if I read tech. news, you don't know the state of my mind, you keep calling me a toddler without any reasoning when in all probability I am older than you and you think they aren't insults? You either have no values or got too used to badmouthing or are a plain sick person. Do you see a world beyond computers boy?

I gave the proof at each n every point of ur absurdness and mindlessness. Y r u so pissed off? Do I have to mark it in bold specially for u? Please increase ur receptiveness!

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by mediator

Well u r the one who deviated the topic to Linux Vs windows and started talking about codecs! Now ur accusing me? How cute!

Maybe you need to read back. Everyone was talking fine about why Romania would pirate Windows instead of using Linux when you decided to make it a Windows vs Linux thread. I was discussing why an average user would find Linux hard to use compared to Windows when you thought I was referring myself.

Check out your very own post.

Piracy worked for us, Romania president tells Gates

Originally Posted by mediator

Yea, And I talked abt flaws that interrupts ur freedom!

A pleasure user doesn't care if a software code is free to modify if it means getting stuck up for hours downloading upgrade distros and then codecs to play media in those distros. Freedom from computer to do what they like is their freedom, not freedom to be stuck on their PC.

Originally Posted by mediator

Thats why I told u to increase ur receptiveness so that u stop asking such stupid questions!

At least you have to accept you have no sense logic. You say "All" when it means "Me". No ones laughing at me boy, have a look around and prove it.

Originally Posted by mediator

U still behave like toddler. Neways go ahead and reverse engineer it, u may find a couple of rootkits. Neways if u were so ace in reverse engineering then ur name shud have been in front list of reverse engineers!

So you assume you are a real grown up? Would you start banging your head on the wall just because you can? You just don't like it someone knows more about technology than you, do you? So what do you do, start insulting when you can't argue on tech.

Originally Posted by mediator

Please do try to reverse engineer some of the softwares I use. I'll provide u a list then!

You'll provide me a list after I reverse engineer them? Well pack me a time machine with the list.

Originally Posted by mediator

Its like using windows without antivirus! And then u talk about "scaled down version n all" so mindlessly! R u sure ur not lying?

Yes its scaled down version of Linux compared to GUI desktop version and I am 100% sure I'm not lying because I have used them both. Now tell me whats "so mindlessly" here? Maybe its be easier to admit you don't understand marketing, user friendliness, OSes, Linux, Windows and servers after all. Well read up and tinker around, you'll learn soon enough.

And not using hardware firewalls doesn't mean using Windows without antivirus. Some customers want this-port-or-that-porn open for various services which means in some cases firewalls can be a hindrance so data centers don't implement it. I have talked this all with my hosting company and I understood their concerns instead of calling them names.

Originally Posted by mediator

Quite provoking! isn't it? Now read the thread from the start and check who started it all and deviate it all!

Now don't tell me you didn't say it

Originally Posted by mediator

Same old argument from someone who lacks experience with linux.

The post is here --> Piracy worked for us, Romania president tells Gates

If you still think I flamed you here first point out the post before that.

Originally Posted by mediator

I gave the proof at each n every point of ur absurdness and mindlessness. Y r u so pissed off? Do I have to mark it in bold specially for u? Please increase ur receptiveness!

Actually if you read the thread yourself you'll notice you haven't given any proofs of your arguments except calling my post "mindless posts", "toddler", "confused", "inexperienced", etc. At least people reading this post understand who has mind and who hasn't...who gets the repos?

[it_waaznt_me]

So much for "discussion" .. I hate it when this "discussion" turns into personal comments and such quote war .. I hate it when I close a thread ..

I am hating it ..