The Extent Of Overburning

[khattam_]

Hey ppl,
I went to a local store and saw a CD having 6-in-1 XP (Home-Pro-Patched-Untouched-VLK and such making 6), pirated of course. It had only ONE CD and i was surprised, how they managed to have 6 XP instalation in ONE CD. I inserted the CD and Windows showed that it had 631 Mb (as shown below)
But when i opened the Directory to check what was in there, i saw all those XP versions had their own separate directories (on was in the root) and all of them had the size of more than 450 Mb. With cracks, patches and manuals, the total CD content was 2.93 Gb. And it is not a DVD (my CD player DOES NOT play DVDs).



I'm surprised to see this coz the CD they have used is a NORMAL cd-r which costs about Rs. 5 in the market.
And if you are thinking, Windows might not install from such a disk, i'm using the same one to type this. The two of them certainly worked (XP and Home untouched). I haven't checked others but should install, too as they have complete files needed.

If anyone knows how those ppl managed this, do let me know. If it is possible to Overburn to such an extent, DIGIT DVDs can be replaced by CDs and I won't have to go to my friend's house to see and copy my DVD content to 3-4 CDs ..............

[rajkumar_personal]

STRANGE !

I surely look forward 2 the pro out here for suggestions !

Would love 2 use that compression tech that was used in the case above !

[shyam911]

I have com across such cd's earlier. My guess is that the versions have been stripped down to bare necessities before burning. It happens with pirated game cd's too. U get rid of files that are not really needed for installation and there by save space. But having 6 XP installations in one cd is still a wonder

[blacklight]

631 Mb = 2.93 Gb
man ! u r breaking the rules of physics .
and this ain't overburning....
coz u r literally multiplying storage.(almost 5 times)
overburning can add a max of a few mb's .

dude keep us posted on what u find.

[hitesh_hg]

It is actually appluing just a little brain .. we know that many files needed by all these OS's will be same...so why not create a symbolic link to the common files..
read about it some time age...don't actually remember how it done..

Hitesh

[blacklight]

@hitesh_hg
if there r symbolic links ,how come the total size is in gb's ,it should be in mb's .

[bharathbala2003]

hmm ok i topo have sumthin 2 share.. my cd aint 2gb n all.. but i lately got a cd.. its got nfs1-5 with a few bonus games.. DirectX8... dunno how they did it.. am postin a screenin below... chk it

[godsownman]

worth finding out its really creative

[drvarunmehta]

not really surprising.
a long time ago i had seen this game monaco grand prix racing simulator 2.
when u checked the total size of all the files it amounted to 1.2 GB. it probably was some new type of protection to prevent the game from being pirated. i think its possible to make the file size appear in GB's by modifying the table of contents. but the total size of all the files will not be over 700 MB.

@khattam_: do this. copy all the files off the cd to ur harddisk and then check the size. if its about 700 MB then u'll know that the cd wasnt holding 2.93 GB of data

[blacklight]

So it is possible !!

look what i found

http://www.medialinenews.com/issues/...ge0515_4.shtml

http://www.tdk.com/corp/tucpress/mlces2002.html

http://www.tdk.com/corp/tucpress/cebit.html

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-12399-x-16-21-x


hi khattam
could u try a cd to cd copy of that disk and see if u end up with the same 2gb copy .try creating an image file first.

and what brand is ur ROM drive ?

[icecoolz]

Its 2GB because there are a lot of common files which are interlinked. So each installation thinks it has its sef of files. So its 1 common files and 5 apps thinking that they each have a seperate copy and hence the size difference.

[NikhilVerma]

This is because of a partition problem...

Files can represent a certain size but they can be actually of different size....

Copy the contents of your CD on the drive and then see the combined size...

[chirayu garg]

I agree with nikhil .you can't burn five times the size on a local cd-r and also not on a mistibushi cd-r.

[rajkumar_personal]

But hey ......................
I got a perfectly cheap (i mean < Rs. 8) CD and gave it 2 my comp dealer who packed in the 3 versions of Win2003 Server in it !
He never told me how he did that though !

[theraven]

:sigh:
time i stepped in
its gettin out of hand !

it isnt overburning
it isnt actually 2 GB
it isnt stripped down to bare necessities ( even that would take over a gb od space for 3 versions of OS's)
it isnt a new kind of cd protection
it isnt a partition problem !

now for the solutions
the cracked game cd's use UHARC to compress the files to that extent
they also strip the game of video files and audio files which reduces their size considerably
there is a way to compress the data into a cd .... that is by using CDIMAGE software
google for it
and most importantly the answer to this specific case
hitesh actually got it right
and icecoolz gave the explaination very well

multi reference links
the cd's u're seeing are win2k3 3 in 1
5 versions of winxp in 1
did u ever wonder why isnt it win2k3 and winxp ?
thats cuz win2k3 and winxp use completely different files for their installation
if u tried to fit in these 2 OS's on one cd ... well im afraid ull FAIL !

the diff "versions" of the "SAME" OS can be put on the same cd !

they simply share the I386 folder !
but each OS is made to think that there is a separate I386 folder for it ( since there are certain differences in the DEFAULT insallation of each "Version" it needs to think the folders are different )

a CD of this sort can only be replicated by makin an image and then burning it, or CD to CD copy
since once they are extracted , wach OS's installation will try ( and ssucceed ) to make its own I386 folder
hence 3 "versions", 3 I386 folders
avg size of each I386 folder, say 550mb
550MB*3 = 1.65 GB
in case of winxp 5in1 500mb*5 =~ 2.5GB
i hope u guys are clear on this now

[rajkumar_personal]

@theraven
Nice one !
Well explained !
Hope that that is the exact stuff that they do and Hey! I'll soon post the way in which they do it 'cause my vendor told me that he'll teach me 2 do it !

[vysakh]

Delta Force Black Hawk Down CD properties

The folder named DFBHD in the CD (not a DVD)

how is this possible??

[blacklight]

hey guys...check this out !!!

Soon you all be able to buy a CD-burner with 2GB capacity-triple the 650MB of conventional CDs.

Calimetrics, Inc., of Alameda, CA, has developed a chip (an application-specific integrated circuit, or ASIC) for otherwise ordinary CD-R/RW drives. Without affecting the drive's ability to record 650MB media, the chip allows each spot on the recording layer of specially formulated media do the work of eight. Instead of representing only one data bit÷a digital one or zero÷a spot made by a drive with the Calimetrics ASIC can vary in density (think shades of gray), yielding seven possible binary numbers, which the drive can then read as any one of three distinguishable data bits. Hence, triple the capacity in the same space.

Ken Campbell, Calimetrics' president and CEO, calls this technology ML for multilevel recording. (Dont confuse that with the multiple recording layers that DVD researchers are working toward-there is just one recording layer in this new CD media.) Interestingly, as Campbell noted, a ML media are made by the same machinery as regular CD media. We use the same components in the recording layer, too÷the same dyes or alloys-but in a slightly different mix.

That, and adding just one chip to the drive, imposes no great price-penalty. The first ML drives will retail for a highly competitive $199; with write-once (-R) media for $1.99, and rewritable (-RW) media for $2.99. Smaller 80mm mini discs and 60mm business-cardä discs, storing 650MB and 200MB, respectively, are due later in the year.

TDK is the first OEM to announce a drive with the Calimetrics ASIC aboard, for shipment by mid-year. The TDK-branded 2GB media will be made by Mitsubishi Chemical of Japan. An ML Allianceä of mainly Japanese manufacturers has also been formed.

Two software developers÷Roxio and Ahead-are adding 2GB extensions to their CD-writing utilities; Ahead's Nero software will ship bundled with the TDK drives.

[khattam_]

Sorry for the delay ppl
I forgot that i had posted this...........
I'm replying to almost all the ppl here. I haven't searched for this elsewhere. Hoping you all will help..........

Originally Posted by shyam911

I have com across such cd's earlier. My guess is that the versions have been stripped down to bare necessities before burning. It happens with pirated game cd's too. U get rid of files that are not really needed for installation and there by save space. But having 6 XP installations in one cd is still a wonder

No way they have been stripped down. All have full sizes and full functionalities as a original XP would do.

Originally Posted by hitesh_hg

It is actually appluing just a little brain .. we know that many files needed by all these OS's will be same...so why not create a symbolic link to the common files..
read about it some time age...don't actually remember how it done..

Hitesh

Yeah! I had thought about it earlier.............
This might be..............
Does anybody have any idea how this is done??

Originally Posted by blacklight

@hitesh_hg
if there r symbolic links ,how come the total size is in gb's ,it should be in mb's .

If it is linking as Hitesh says, the same file will be counted again and again and thus size is increased...............

Originally Posted by drvarunmehta

@khattam_: do this. copy all the files off the cd to ur harddisk and then check the size. if its about 700 MB then u'll know that the cd wasnt holding 2.93 GB of data

What do you think?? I didn't try that??
It is 2.93 Gb on my HD

Originally Posted by blacklight

and what brand is ur ROM drive ?

I've tried it on two CD-ROM's of mine SONY RWD (no DVD reading) and ASUS CD-ROM D. I've even tried on my friend's Samsung CD-ROM D. Same there too.............
Did u think it was a prob with my CD-ROM Drive........... Common........

Originally Posted by icecoolz

Its 2GB because there are a lot of common files which are interlinked. So each installation thinks it has its sef of files. So its 1 common files and 5 apps thinking that they each have a seperate copy and hence the size difference.
_________________

I think the same too..........
Can you exlain how it's done.............

Originally Posted by NikhilVerma

This is because of a partition problem...

Files can represent a certain size but they can be actually of different size....

Copy the contents of your CD on the drive and then see the combined size...
_________________

LOL, tried it...........



I agree to raven but please could you explain how it is done...............

Originally Posted by theraven

multi reference links
the cd's u're seeing are win2k3 3 in 1
5 versions of winxp in 1
did u ever wonder why isnt it win2k3 and winxp ?
thats cuz win2k3 and winxp use completely different files for their installation
if u tried to fit in these 2 OS's on one cd ... well im afraid ull FAIL !

But they can't share the whole I386 folder. Each Installation has Peculiar kind of folder, doesn't it???????? They must have shared the files individually............ But this is kind of a headache................ Moreover, they have OEM patched and Untouched original XP installation folder in the same CD............ That is kind of unexplainable with the crosslinking thing, isn't it??

Any more ideas folks...........................


And more news...........
I think the crosslinking thing best explains the issue........

READ THE INCIDENT BELOW

I tried to copy the file
I386\ASMS\6000\Windows\Common\Controls\Controls.ca t
from each I386 but the same error "Cannot read from source or disk" appeared. So it must be the multi reference thing.............

I had used the same file earlier from another Pro CD to i install........

This is the final idea and I think this is the right explanation but...... How can we do it ourselves??????

[khattam_]

And more news...........
I think the crosslinking thing best explains this issue........
Thanks to all ppl involved in this post for sharing their views and experiences...............

READ THE INCIDENT BELOW

I tried to copy the file
I386\ASMS\6000\Windows\Common\Controls\Controls.ca t
from each I386 but the same error "Cannot read from source or disk" appeared. So it must be the multi reference thing.............

I had used the same file earlier from another Pro CD to install earlier (I didn't install from the same CD earlier but copied the contents to another CD and Slipstreamed SP2 and then created a bootable and then installed. Later i even extracted the same files from the CD by a technique which worked. The technique was to create an ISO and then mount it to a volume with the help of virtual CD-ROM program and then copy the files. This worked)........

This is the final idea and I think this is the right explanation but...... How can we do it ourselves??????

[khattam_]

Just more news........

I created an ISO image which has the size od 631Mb. I burned it to a CD-RW (Imation, 650 Mb) and it has the same properties of the original CD.

[jay4u]

I think it is fairly possible because i once brought a cd which had Windows 2003 server STD, WEB & ENT with a size of 2gb. But on copying it to hard drive the file size was same 2gb. Now i have made 3 cds one each for different type...... How is it posibbly done.

Also i checked the size of i386 folder which weremarginally but different sizes in each case. There must be some on the fly compression or something of that sort but i dont know... Also does anyone knows how knoppix fits 2 gb of data in one cd.......

[khattam_]

@jay4u
I don't think you understood what theraven was trying to say............... Read the earlier posts. But yes about knoppix cds, it must be some other technique......... Maybe the CD-R is of that data capacity.................... or some compression...............