frontpage

[iMav]

guys i just got my software upgraded by my engg and he installed office 2003 but my beloved frontpage is not there ... i tried the dump he had made bt tht too doesnt hav frontpage ab main kya karu

[Vishal Gupta]

afaik, Office 2003 doesnt come bundled with frontpage, u hv to purchase it separately
Once I had similar problem, I was using Office 2003 and also needed frontpage, so I used my Office XP CD and did a custom install and only selected "Frontpage" to install it

[mediator]

^^But I didn't find frontpage even in OfficeXp Cd. I installed it from Office 2000 separately. @mav3....u may try office2000 cd!

[Choto Cheeta]

Front Page isnt the thing that MS is working on any more... they are shifting to a new type of platform...

Microsoft Web Expression...

[Pathik]

afaik frontpage is included in the office xp package

[Vishal Gupta]

Office XP was available with as well as without Frontpage

[iMav]

now i will hav to dig up my drawer for the cd ... damn

[tuxfan]

Off topic:
Frontpage is one of the worst WYSIWYG web-page editor

[mediator]

^^Korrect

[Pathik]

Absolutely

[JhonCena]

Originally Posted by tuxfan

Off topic:
Frontpage is one of the worst WYSIWYG web-page editor

I am totally disagree with you . I think frontpage is the best one for amatuer web designer. we should not call it worst. I am also using Macromedia dreamweaver MX 2004. There are many things whichdreamweaver can't do but forntpage can do!

I think you are agree with me.

Dreamweaver and Frontpage is very hot combination.

[iMav]

frontpage and dreamweaver is my combo i hv never done any site designing course .... frontpage has a very simple user interface and can do the basic things pretty easily though at times it is very frustrating when u hav adjust somethign or the other but frontpage for n00bs very good .... but for ppl who are into the business of website designing and hosting should not be using such an amatuer program so if they call it the worst i can live with it

[tuxfan]

Have you guys ever studied the code that Frontpage generates for your web-pages? As is the case with almost all Micro$oft products, front-end is awesome, back-end aweful!!

[blueshift]

Originally Posted by JhonCena

There are many things which we dreamweaver can't do but frontpage can do!

Like?

tuxfan, are you in favor of FP or not?

[JhonCena]

tuxfan is always right but this time he is wrong(i think)

sorry for the off topic post

[Pathik]

yea man...frontpage generates too much trash code... the html part of it looks complicated n messed up bcos of it..

[tuxfan]

Originally Posted by blueshift

Like?

tuxfan, are you in favor of FP or not?

I am completely, totally, entirely AGAINST frontpage! It just looks nice, but the code that it generates is just horrible. I am maintaining a site made by someone else. It has over 100 pages and he had used plain HTML and frontpage to make it. I know what I have to go thru to maintain it.

Originally Posted by JhonCena

tuxfan is always right but this time he is wrong (i think)

Shall I take this as a compliment? Just kidding.

See, someone like me who prefers to write every bit of code in a text-editor will always feel that WYSISYG editors generate trash. But Frontpage generates the most trash! The site that it makes will look perfect in IE. But try it out in some other browser. I have seen many pages going complete haywire in other browsers. Earlier it was fine because IE was the undisputed king of browsers. But now, it is slowly losing market share!

Have a look here for browser market shares
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

[JhonCena]

ok then wat WYSISYG editor will you prefer(tell me wat are u using?)

Dreamweaver or another???

[QwertyManiac]

^^
I use NVu and Dreamweaver.


Edit: Ehh... 3.5k!

[mediator]

@John cena : Optimization is one of the practises in software engineering!

A bloated piece of software with code containing irrelevant entries is never favoured. Using these editors, u may say there is a trade off b/w Ease of coding and optimization for developers.

U make an html page with FP. Its size is like 30-35 KB. Now try to make the same design urself without the help of these editors. It may be like 20-25 KB. Now suppose u make a whole site with the help of such editors containing 10000 such pages. Can u guess how much extra code will be there and how much space is being wasted??
Also if some one surfs ur website containing these bloated pages, he will be wasting his bandwidth on "trash" code that is being downloaded!! So u can't escape the "trash" code that is automatically generated using these editors, though u can edit it and remove it!!

I only use dreamweaver and that too when I need to edit the designing part or the color codes!! The code gets generated here too, but its easier for me to identify what code was mine and what has been generated, and edit it appropriately!!

[tuxfan]

Originally Posted by JhonCena

ok then wat WYSISYG editor will you prefer(tell me wat are u using?)

Dreamweaver or another???

Frankly speaking, I don't use any WYSIWYG editors. None of those WYSIWYG editors generate optimised code. However, if you are comfortable with only WYSIWYG editors, then choose the least evil. QWERTY rightly pointed out NVu (free) and Dreamweaver. I use Notepad++ to type my code. I have heard that even Dreamweaver's code editor is also good.

As soon as I have some time, I shall try to write some tutorial on basics of making web-pages and how php/CSS can make it convenient. So far I have written some articles about shifting various types of websites from one server to another on my blog.