DOT Net

[nitnew]

what is dotnet. what is it's benfits, is it developed from J2EE. want to work on live projects of microsoft.

man i think this thing is discussed somewhere in digit forum ...

by the way .net is a plateform fro software development . and it is a microsoft's answer to java.

it is a plateform independent like java .
it includes language like vb.net,vc++.net,vc#.net and other things like asp.net , ado.net .

.net plateform is totally object oriented ..

[icecoolz]

Originally Posted by nik_for_you

man i think this thing is discussed somewhere in digit forum ...

by the way .net is a plateform fro software development . and it is a microsoft's answer to java.

it is a plateform independent like java .
it includes language like vb.net,vc++.net,vc#.net and other things like asp.net , ado.net .

.net plateform is totally object oriented ..

Which ever product from Microsoft is platform independant ??? Get ur facts straight. .NET is a framework which is developed to counter Sun's J2EE. Its not microsofts answer to java It brings all the microsofts products under one framework. However you still need the .NET framework for you to run .NET applications and it still runs only on Windows OS!!

[TheGuru]

You need .NET framework to run .NET applications - similar to java applications requiring JRE.

http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html

[GNUrag]

Originally Posted by icecoolz

Which ever product from Microsoft is platform independant ???

DotNet, the framework is based on OpenStandards, is what Microsoft claims...

Originally Posted by icecoolz

However you still need the .NET framework for you to run .NET applications and it still runs only on Windows OS!!

There are atlease two projects that enable you to run DotNet apps on Linux machines....
1) DotGNU < www.dotgnu.org > .... backed by FSF
2) Mono < www.go-mono.com > ..... backed by Novell

These primarily deal with the ECMA specifications for C# which are considered as OpenStandards...

Originally Posted by icecoolz

Which ever product from Microsoft is platform independant ??? Get ur facts straight. .NET is a framework which is developed to counter Sun's J2EE. Its not microsofts answer to java It brings all the microsofts products under one framework. However you still need the .NET framework for you to run .NET applications and it still runs only on Windows OS!!

dude... .net IS platform independent and is way better than J2EE.. it runs on linux too.. did u ever hear of something called the Mono project? it even allows u to develop .net on linux.
just bcuz many guys have a grudge on windows, it doesn't mean everything of microsoft sucks... infact i think microsoft has the best programmer's software and IDE available.
one more thing... pages developed by asp.net can be viewed on any browser and they work and look just like VB programs. man, you can even make pages which work in WAP enabled devices. (not WML files)

[nitnew]

Originally Posted by nitnew

what is dotnet. what is it's benfits, is it developed from J2EE. want to work on live projects of microsoft.

can you communicate with the mobile system with the desktop to handle all log files.

[sms_solver]

Can anybody tell me

has MS Visual Studio .NET and its .NET Framework a sucess or not so sucessful.

Does bigger sw company like Adobe, Corel and other ever use .NET technology to make any of their application

I am still using VB6 and have not decided yet to move to .NET

is this right time for me to move to VS .net

plz suggest

[TheGuru]

This is the right time to start learning .NET though not many applications are available right now that run on .NET.
.NET is going to become extremely important once Windows Longhorn is released - around the end of 2006 - 2007. But, be aware of the fact that .NET is being revised all along and I am not sure which will be the final version that Longhorn is going to ship out with.

[icecoolz]

Originally Posted by munim

dude... .net IS platform independent and is way better than J2EE.. it runs on linux too.. did u ever hear of something called the Mono project? it even allows u to develop .net on linux.
just bcuz many guys have a grudge on windows, it doesn't mean everything of microsoft sucks... infact i think microsoft has the best programmer's software and IDE available.
one more thing... pages developed by asp.net can be viewed on any browser and they work and look just like VB programs. man, you can even make pages which work in WAP enabled devices. (not WML files)

This has to be one of the lamest reasons I have ever heard. I have over 8 yrs of IT exp. I am currently working on a project as the architect with J2EE middleware and .NET frontend. So I think I should know quite a bit about what I am saying.

Plus can you tell me any commerical project which has a .NET framework running ? A complete project which is available and implemented using .NET. To date none. Why because the framework itself is not in place.

There are plenty of open source projects available which will give me the ability to develop/deploy a .NET application on non windows OS. The thing is ask urself this. If I am going to develop a multi million dollar application would I do it on an open source project which has not been tested and does not have any support mechanism ? If I was to develop it on .NET then I would deploy it on a Windows Server (am not getting into a windows server vulnerabilities issues we are all aware of it), or if I was to develop it on J2EE then I would deploy it on an Application Server such as BEA's or IBM's or Oracle's. Why simply because its tried and tested and works.

Oh and check the huge hardware needs to run a .NET server. I can run a J2EE App server and test it and develop all on a 256 MB machine running windows 2000. Think this is possible with ..NET ? We have 512 MB machines with Visual Studio and Weblogic and it takes a hellava long time to just get it running.!!!!

.NET is still way too immature for it to be a serious contender to J2EE. And J2EE is going in directions which will completely change the middletier. Its going back to the days of pseudo coding. Read up on it and you will understand what I am talking about.

[beyondthegracefgod]

Tooooooo much technical info confuses ne bdy.
I dunn have much programin knowledg due to my specialization in electronics engg.
Here is wat i understand both .net and java are frontend tech.Frontend means the interface xample the hotmail or even consider the AtM machine page thro which u login.
Java is a core program which is pretty old tried and tested much of the larger enterprises use java.
.Net is the microsofts newer compitetor 2 java which is easier and menu driven to a extend that is the same comparison between dos and windows tat is a gui.
.net is used for smaller enterprise appz cuz of its simplicity juss like u and i use windows and larger guys use linux and solaris.

[nitnew]

Microsoft .NET is a set of Microsoft software technologies for connecting information, people, systems, and devices specially smart devices with high speed. Major role is played by ASP.net

[icecoolz]

Originally Posted by beyondthegracefgod

Tooooooo much technical info confuses ne bdy.
I dunn have much programin knowledg due to my specialization in electronics engg.
Here is wat i understand both .net and java are frontend tech.Frontend means the interface xample the hotmail or even consider the AtM machine page thro which u login.
Java is a core program which is pretty old tried and tested much of the larger enterprises use java.
.Net is the microsofts newer compitetor 2 java which is easier and menu driven to a extend that is the same comparison between dos and windows tat is a gui.
.net is used for smaller enterprise appz cuz of its simplicity juss like u and i use windows and larger guys use linux and solaris.

Some clarifications :

Java and .NET cannot be compared. Java is a programming language where in .NET is a framework just like J2EE.

Windows Menu based even driven smart IDE's which are only restricted to the Microsoft IDE's are a thing of the past. I can create as complex a front end application in java as much as in VB. Check out JBuilder or JDeveloper and you will understand what I mean.

Size is of no restriction when it comes to implementing java based solutions. Infact its quite a lot easier to implement them on smaller co's as they do not need much changes in terms of infrastructure. Remem java and the J2EE framework is platform independant.

[nitnew]

Originally Posted by sms_solver

Can anybody tell me

has MS Visual Studio .NET and its .NET Framework a sucess or not so sucessful.

Does bigger sw company like Adobe, Corel and other ever use .NET technology to make any of their application

I am still using VB6 and have not decided yet to move to .NET

is this right time for me to move to VS .net

plz suggest

if you wan to move with the market then you have to go into the dotnet to get the basics of it, the IDE so that it may be used as the debuggers, which is currently used in most companies.

[nitnew]

Originally Posted by TheGuru

This is the right time to start learning .NET though not many applications are available right now that run on .NET.
.NET is going to become extremely important once Windows Longhorn is released - around the end of 2006 - 2007. But, be aware of the fact that .NET is being revised all along and I am not sure which will be the final version that Longhorn is going to ship out with.

have you know the requirements to run longhorn on the desktop. companies do not adopt the longhorn due to its requirements. they are shifting to UNIX related OS which are free and more secure then any other operating systems.

Originally Posted by icecoolz

This has to be one of the lamest reasons I have ever heard. I have over 8 yrs of IT exp. I am currently working on a project as the architect with J2EE middleware and .NET frontend. So I think I should know quite a bit about what I am saying.

Plus can you tell me any commerical project which has a .NET framework running ? A complete project which is available and implemented using .NET. To date none. Why because the framework itself is not in place.

There are plenty of open source projects available which will give me the ability to develop/deploy a .NET application on non windows OS. The thing is ask urself this. If I am going to develop a multi million dollar application would I do it on an open source project which has not been tested and does not have any support mechanism ? If I was to develop it on .NET then I would deploy it on a Windows Server (am not getting into a windows server vulnerabilities issues we are all aware of it), or if I was to develop it on J2EE then I would deploy it on an Application Server such as BEA's or IBM's or Oracle's. Why simply because its tried and tested and works.

Oh and check the huge hardware needs to run a .NET server. I can run a J2EE App server and test it and develop all on a 256 MB machine running windows 2000. Think this is possible with ..NET ? We have 512 MB machines with Visual Studio and Weblogic and it takes a hellava long time to just get it running.!!!!

.NET is still way too immature for it to be a serious contender to J2EE. And J2EE is going in directions which will completely change the middletier. Its going back to the days of pseudo coding. Read up on it and you will understand what I am talking about.

dude... mono is goin to be a commercial product soon and will have tech support. it doesn't matter if you have 8 years exp in IT.... meybe thats the reason you are so resistant to change.. i am an IT student and a developer and i have studied both together at the same time and i prefer .dot.
my friend has a 128 MB RAM machine with windows xp sp2 and it takes around 15 seconds to load... his computer is 3 years old! i don't know what are you talking about! the reason why you won't be able to find a complete preject with .net is because it is still relatively new and there is still not enough prgrammers who know about it.. i read this in a tech mag.
if i were a project architech i would certainly choose .net platform as frontend and middleware..... even if it were on a non windows platform

If I was to develop it on .NET then I would deploy it on a Windows Server (am not getting into a windows server vulnerabilities issues we are all aware of it), or if I was to develop it on J2EE then I would deploy it on an Application Server such as BEA's or IBM's or Oracle's.

if i needed to make a project in .net, i too would naturally choose windows server 'cause i prefer it over others. i am saying it is completely possible to develop .net on non windows platform, even for commercial processes.
an independent survey recently took place on server OS and it shows windows servers outperform others in performance by a large margin and if proper support is available, the vulnerabilities issues also cover up.
i said it and i say it again... **.net rocks!!**

[TheGuru]

Originally Posted by nitnew

have you know the requirements to run longhorn on the desktop. companies do not adopt the longhorn due to its requirements. they are shifting to UNIX related OS which are free and more secure then any other operating systems.

I really don't think so. Lets face it, Windows currently dominates the OS market and they are years ahead of Linux and other Unices when it comes to Graphics (except maybe the Macs which are irrelevant considering that they are a minority). Which is the OS you boot to daily? Which is the OS you use if you want to play the latest games? Which is the OS that __every__ harware manufacturer supports? As far as home user is concerned, Windows is the unanimous choice and rightly so. I mean, Windows is _still_ enjoying the huge popularity and widespread adoption it got from Win95 and Win98. All major APIs, frameworks and what-not were developed primarily for Windows and most applications were developed with these APIs in mind. MS Office is a whole story in itself. I would say Windows is still preferable in corporate desktops primarily due to MS Office. Add to this DirectX and MS Visual Studio (one of the best user-friendly IDE) and no wonder Windows is still the dominant OS.
Linux is picking up well, but suffers from the problems listed above. I like to think of Linux as more of an academic OS or a research OS that primarily finds acceptance in educational and research institutions - and to some extent in corporates as servers (though FreeBSD is the preferred one as far as security and stability is concerned). Linux also suffers from its own model. For example, consider GNome and KDE - both are equally good - but, some applications function well only with one of them. Specifically, the issue is one of standardization. Currently, different linux distros are to a certain extent incompatible. There is however a standardization effort going on (LSB). So, things __will__ get better, but, its gonna take a lot of time.

"companies do not adopt the longhorn due to its requirements. they are shifting to UNIX related OS which are free and more secure then any other operating systems."

Please don't make such statements... it makes me

Security - yes! It was just a bad patch for Microsoft. Well, they have had their lesson and I am sure, they are only going to get better. And windows _may_ not really make such a big splash as far as servers are concerned, but desktop is all theirs. I mean, I don't think that many Win servers are out their today. So, Longhorn server is irrelevant to this discussion.

I think longhorn is just the beginning - there are a lot of goodies to follow.

[vbtech]

Hi friends,

There is a long debate all over which one is better J2EE or .NET, and whether .NET is a success or not, We are doing .NET based application development for last 2 years, and I really like .NET, i had programmed a lot in Java and other technologies, but .NET has definitely changed the scenario,ASP.net is the best part of the Microsoft.NET technology, where we can develope rich and robust web applications, and web services are also getting momentum, even big corporations are using .NET web services. The thing that .NET is for small enterprises is completley wrong, we can develop highly scalable and robust application on .NET platform.
As far as the memory requirement to run .NET applications, i think Java Web Servers also require a huge amount of memory. In brief Microsoft .NETis both of two world, it has features of typical Microsft Applications like faster development, developer friendly features with the power of Java like better security, powerful language (C#) and a rich set of libraries.

[icecoolz]

dude... mono is goin to be a commercial product soon and will have tech support. it doesn't matter if you have 8 years exp in IT.... meybe thats the reason you are so resistant to change.. i am an IT student and a developer and i have studied both together at the same time and i prefer .dot.

Commercially more that 32% of all projects runs on J2EE. 60% of all projects on the net runs on J2EE. All banking application and ecoomerce sites runs on J2EE. Being in the IT industry there is only one thing which is constant. And that is change. If I dont adapt to it well I am screwed aint it. Need I say more.

i am saying it is completely possible to develop .net on non windows platform, even for commercial processes.

Possible yes. Viable ? thats a completely different set of questions. It poses such questions as TCO (Total Cost of Ownership), Support and availability. More than 20% software progammers in this world are in java. So you can see the ease with which I can find a java personnel compared to someone in .NET

[icecoolz]

vbtech,

Ever heard of the Apache Tomcat AS ? check it out. Its memory foot print is extremely low and guess what it's platform independant. 62% of the worlds web runs on apache.

Also check out Oracles App server. Its called Oracle Containers for java (OC4J). Its full size is 30MB and memory footprint is less than 40MB. We eun industrial applications on it.

Oh and one more thing. I dont need an IDE to compile and build java components...all I need is JDK...and notepad...

[vbtech]

icecoolz,

Why you are comparing Java and .NET platform, I have pointed out the features of .NET as I like it, I am not denying the fact that most commercial and financial applications are written in Java, as I have said i have done java programming for a lot of years and i do like Java, what I am trying to say is that Microsoft .NET technology is very promising and we are going to see a large no. of web applications running on .NET in near future.

[icecoolz]

Originally Posted by vbtech

icecoolz,

Why you are comparing Java and .NET platform, I have pointed out the features of .NET as I like it, I am not denying the fact that most commercial and financial applications are written in Java, as I have said i have done java programming for a lot of years and i do like Java, what I am trying to say is that Microsoft .NET technology is very promising and we are going to see a large no. of web applications running on .NET in near future.

First of all never have I compared java and .NET anywhere in this post :roll: Please check before you say so. I even mentioned that java and .NET is not a fair comparison as it should be J2EE and .NET

As you have expressed your opinions so am I expressing mine. .NET and Half Life 2 are the one and the same. .NET was first released in 2001 and its 2004 and still there is no stable sepcs. Its constantly on the change. Also MS and security well we all know what thats like. So I dont think I will be building security applications based on .NET netime in the future.

For all those people harping on XML and webservices both are already easily implemented in j2EE specs and almost every IDE out there supports it.

[nitnew]

Originally Posted by TheGuru

I really don't think so. Lets face it, Windows currently dominates the OS market and they are years ahead of Linux and other Unices when it comes to Graphics (except maybe the Macs which are irrelevant considering that they are a minority). Which is the OS you boot to daily? Which is the OS you use if you want to play the latest games? Which is the OS that __every__ harware manufacturer supports? As far as home user is concerned, Windows is the unanimous choice and rightly so. I mean, Windows is _still_ enjoying the huge popularity and widespread adoption it got from Win95 and Win98. All major APIs, frameworks and what-not were developed primarily for Windows and most applications were developed with these APIs in mind. MS Office is a whole story in itself. I would say Windows is still preferable in corporate desktops primarily due to MS Office. Add to this DirectX and MS Visual Studio (one of the best user-friendly IDE) and no wonder Windows is still the dominant OS.
Linux is picking up well, but suffers from the problems listed above. I like to think of Linux as more of an academic OS or a research OS that primarily finds acceptance in educational and research institutions - and to some extent in corporates as servers (though FreeBSD is the preferred one as far as security and stability is concerned). Linux also suffers from its own model. For example, consider GNome and KDE - both are equally good - but, some applications function well only with one of them. Specifically, the issue is one of standardization. Currently, different linux distros are to a certain extent incompatible. There is however a standardization effort going on (LSB). So, things __will__ get better, but, its gonna take a lot of time.

"companies do not adopt the longhorn due to its requirements. they are shifting to UNIX related OS which are free and more secure then any other operating systems."

Please don't make such statements... it makes me

Security - yes! It was just a bad patch for Microsoft. Well, they have had their lesson and I am sure, they are only going to get better. And windows _may_ not really make such a big splash as far as servers are concerned, but desktop is all theirs. I mean, I don't think that many Win servers are out their today. So, Longhorn server is irrelevant to this discussion.

I think longhorn is just the beginning - there are a lot of goodies to follow.

i agree with you but the problem of linux is the application software any company can not shift from one technology to another, as linux servers have already take there positions in market which are the base.
about the desktops organization system are basically for coding and not for playing the latest games most of the times and the concept of the VB, MS Word. the current linux has solved the problem of this too much, it recognize the most formats of the word(MS). i am not sure but it may happens that person work on the simulater of the window which runs on the linux operating system.

[TheGuru]

about the desktops organization system are basically for coding and not for playing the latest games most of the times and the concept of the VB, MS Word. the current linux has solved the problem of this too much, it recognize the most formats of the word(MS).

If you are talking about software companies where geeks just "code" and Linux can as well do the job - I'm afraid even that is not likely to happen. Reason? MS Office. Though there are a lot of other office suites that can read MS Office files, they are not yet there. They won't get anywhere near 75% compliance with MS Office, forget about 100%. And with new versions of MS office coming out, it just gets worse. Take this from someone who has worked on these formats (Excel and PPT) and trust me, the situation is pretty bad... we have to literally look at bits & bites of binary data and try to make sense of each of these bytes and sometimes, even bits... (check out apache POI project: http://jakarta.apache.org/poi/index.html)
MS Office is half the story. Many companies have based their entire infrastructure on Windows platform (like mailing system and management functionality). They simply can't migrate to other open-source systems simply because the penalty will be formidable. (Wipro uses Outlook - imagine what it would mean if they were to switch to Lotus Notes... no one will accept a change easily)

i am not sure but it may happens that person work on the simulater of the window which runs on the linux operating system

Are you talking about virtual machines like vmware? Hmmm.... that doesn't change anything, does it? Whether you run windows 'natively' or in a virtual machine, ultimately, you have to have a license which means you pay M$.

[nitnew]

well this is also right, but in this discussion we forgot the dot net. well come back to dotnet and let's discuss on that;
the linux OS takes into market for the clients

[sms_solver]

I have noticed that .NET application really runs slowly as compared to Win32 executables, also it takes a lot of memory at runtime.

Is this due to intermediate MISL code or there is some other reasons.

can somebody enlighten my knowledge.

[nitnew]

WHAT IS THIS I NEVER HEARD OF THIS WORD IN COMPUTER CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT IN DETAIL

[sms_solver]

Originally Posted by nitnew

WHAT IS THIS I NEVER HEARD OF THIS WORD IN COMPUTER CAN YOU EXPLAIN IT IN DETAIL

When you make (exe) using let say MS VC++, VB or some Borland C/C++ Compiler it make Win32 executable i.e. (.exe or .dll) They are machine dependent code.

But .net doesnot compile your .net code into win32 executable, rather it make some intermediate code. That intermediate code is interpreted by some ms (.net framework based) interpreter. (i don't know the name). it is somewhat similar to java bytecode

I guess this makes .net application slow. correct me if I am wrong.