3D Linux desktop!!

[JGuru]

Windows Vista is going to come with a 3D desktop interface. The Linux
guys are not far behind!! Currently Ubuntu & Gentoo Linux can support
3D desktop. The new version of Suse (Suse 11.0) will be shipping with
3D desktop. It uses XGL , an XServer that uses OpenGL to do the drawing
operations.It can create some stunning effects

Read more about this at the following link:

http://www.gentoo-wiki.com/XGL

Wow!!

Checkout some screenshots!!

http://www.gentoo-wiki.com/Image:T0maz_Xgl_19.png

http://www.gentoo-wiki.com/Image:T0maz_Xgl_23.png

http://www.gentoo-wiki.com/Image:T0maz_Xgl_24.png

http://www.gentoo-wiki.com/Image:T0maz_Xgl_26.png

http://www.gentoo-wiki.com/Image:Xgl2.jpg

[kalpik]

Believe me when i say it, XGL doesn't even come close to Aero

[GNUrag]

Originally Posted by kalpik

Believe me when i say it, XGL doesn't even come close to Aero

Did you realise that XGL is in its early Alpha development stage. And that the code Novell has released in public domain (which is currently going into the Upstream of various distributions ) is almost an year old, and that actual development stage of XGL is at more advanced stage?

[vignesh]

Thats true... XGL included is only in alpha stage...

[mehulved]

Hey no mention of AIGLX????
Red Hat is developing it. Of what I have seen it's not as stunning as XGL but nonetheless it falls into this category and it had started around the same time as XGL AFAIK.
Some who knows more on it can throw some lights.

[dIgItaL_BrAt]

AIGLX was started bcuz the fedora community felt that as XGL was written with a 'closed door' policy,it went against the opensource philosophy,but currently hardware support is limited only to hardware with free drivers.
An important point to note is that both the AIGLX and XGL projects will swap code in order to ensure compatibility and further improvement.

[kalpik]

Originally Posted by GNUrag

Did you realise that XGL is in its early Alpha development stage. And that the code Novell has released in public domain (which is currently going into the Upstream of various distributions ) is almost an year old, and that actual development stage of XGL is at more advanced stage?

Yup.. I know that.. But didnt know that actual development has progressed.. Thanks for the info!

[JGuru]

Yes Kalpik, I agree. DirectX gives the fastest platform for graphics. And Vista will
support DirectX 10. And we know that graphics & Games in Linux are quite slow
compared to Windows. So we can't compare them both. When Suse 11 comes out
we will know how good it is. Definitely you need Systems with 512 MB RAM & a
good graphics card for decent performance. If the Linux guys can develop something
like DirectX in Linux and increase the graphics performance, then it's worth it.
I think Novell is doing a great job. Let's see the product next yearand talk about the
comparisons with Vista.

[vignesh]

AIGLX is a project that aims to enable GL-accelerated effects on a standard desktop. We have a lightly modified X server (that includes a couple of extensions), an updated Mesa package that adds some new protocol support and a version of metacity with a composite manager. The end result is that you can use GL effects on your desktop with very few changes, the ability to turn it on and off at will, and you don't have to replace your X server in the process.

This is code that was done entirely upstream in concert with the rest of the X community. FC5 is the first distribution that will allow people to try it out because we are the first to include the modular X packages and the right protocol bits in the right places. We have been working hard on the underlying X bits and not too much on the actual rendering effects, but we hope that the rest of the community will help creating interesting and appropriate effects. The point is not to create a finished product at this point, but instead enable a community around it to develop and test it.

We have tested this code on a number of card and driver combinations and we do work on a large number of them. There's a table below that includes a list of what we know works, what we think works and what we know does not work. So look at this list before you try out the code.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RenderingProject/aiglx

XGL vs AIGLX
http://airlied.livejournal.com/22700.html

[gauravnawani]

Originally Posted by JGuru

Yes Kalpik, I agree. DirectX gives the fastest platform for graphics. And Vista will support DirectX 10.

Says who?
It only appears to be faster as Msft has developed them both. BTW do you know Linux have full support for OpenGl, have you ever played ID software's game on Linux? they work as fast as on Windows is not actually faster of that only if you are using the accelerated drives from Nvidia or ATI.

The requirement for DE based effects is not that heavy, the AIGX project with wobbly windows was initially done on a laptop based on normal Intel graphics chip-set and it work pretty fine see vids in the link below.

And for the one who don't know AIGX was started much earlier than Novell started to wok on XGL. http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/xshots

PS: Kalpik there is one more reason if Aero feels more polished Ms$$$$$$$$$

Originally Posted by kalpik

Believe me when i say it, XGL doesn't even come close to Aero

Dont bring Aero topic in linux. XGL is improving a lot. Only if Nvidia and Ati helps open source.

[GNUrag]

Originally Posted by JGuru

Yes Kalpik, I agree. DirectX gives the fastest platform for graphics. And Vista will support DirectX 10. And we know that graphics & Games in Linux are quite slow compared to Windows. So we can't compare them both.

Dont even talk about DirectX.. DirectX and the technology behind it Direct3D is an utter piece of cr@p which M$ has been marketting since long.. Direct3D APIs are all software driven renderers and stand no chance against SGI's OpenGL..

As opposed to what you believe, in the graphics industry no-body even touches Direct3D.. there is just OpenGL.. since OpenGL uses hardware driven renderer, you have your processor doing better things that its supposed to do..

And do you know why you feel games are slow in Linux? that's because those games were not using Linux's native OpenGL libraries.. perhaps they were emulating Direct3D and trying to run games as best as they could..

[mehulved]

GNU can u give some examples and benchmarks. I don't really have any idea on this stuff. I'd like to know more.

[JGuru]

I installed 3D desktop yesterday.Wow, the effects are so cool.

GNUrag, Why games are slow in Linux? The Linux expert Christopher Negus says:

The X Window is GUI used in Linux.Because X doesn't provide a dedicated
graphical screen for the game, the performance is degraded. On the other hand
Linux Super VGA Library interface can run games in a more dedicated way than
X.Because SVGALIB can run your game without managing a desktop & other
applications( as X does). SVGALIB can run some games faster than X.

[GNUrag]

One frank review about Direct3D and OpenGL is available from GameDev.net
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/art...rticle1775.asp

Direct3D is very useful for making Win32 games. It is made solely for Win32. Because Direct3D is only for Windows systems, it is usually not used for high-end graphics applications. Many graphics people prefer a Unix or SGI workstation; Direct3D does not (and probably never will) support those platforms. There is really nothing that Direct3D can do that OpenGL can't,

Also read the Wikipedia article comparing both technologies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct3D_vs._OpenGL

[GNUrag]

Originally Posted by JGuru

The X Window is GUI used in Linux.Because X doesn't provide a dedicated
graphical screen for the game, the performance is degraded. On the other hand
Linux Super VGA Library interface can run games in a more dedicated way than
X.Because SVGALIB can run your game without managing a desktop & other
applications( as X does). SVGALIB can run some games faster than X.

Exactly, i also was saying that. XServer, being a client-server model, is bound to be slow due to all the overhead of RPC calls involved.

btw, you are also supposed to post the link for original article here..

[JGuru]

Anyway thanks GNUrag, is there any thing similar to Linux Super VGA Library
available now? Do you know any such thing being developed? I certainly want to
know.

[mehulved]

Thanks GNU. BTW, I did find both the links. They are on the first page of google search for DirectX vs OpenGL . Anyways let me read it up.

[GNUrag]

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

Thanks GNU. BTW, I did find both the links. They are on the first page of google search for DirectX vs OpenGL . Anyways let me read it up.

That's cool,
I normally head over to Wikipedia whenever i'm looking for technical comparison of competing technologies.. I first search on Wikipedia.org then head over to Google.

You can play windows games in linux using cedaga not free but. Another application is coming soon for linux. The team will concentrate more on Heavy games that is running to play on windows to play on linux. You see in near future game can be played in linux with a ease.

[gauravnawani]

Originally Posted by GNUrag

Dont even talk about DirectX.. DirectX and the technology behind it Direct3D is an utter piece of cr@p which M$ has been marketting since long.. Direct3D APIs are all software driven renderers and stand no chance against SGI's OpenGL..

As opposed to what you believe, in the graphics industry no-body even touches Direct3D.. there is just OpenGL.. since OpenGL uses hardware driven renderer, you have your processor doing better things that its supposed to do..

And do you know why you feel games are slow in Linux? that's because those games were not using Linux's native OpenGL libraries.. perhaps they were emulating Direct3D and trying to run games as best as they could..

You are wrong GNUrag Directx is actually have become quite good now a days especially for games. And to correct you D3d is Completely hardware driven rather than software driven. However it can do the other way round too, as it was designed at the time most cards did not supported dx.

OpenGl is indeed excellent and yes it is widely used mostly in scientific fraternity but that is mostly due to the fact that scientist use Unix or Linux not windows and it has been there for almost two decades its a proven technology. Said that OpenGl is much solid than D3d mostly yeah its hard to believe but D3d can be good at times.

Games are slow in Linux irrespective of whether they are tailor made for OpenGl mostly due to the architecture of how Linux handles video, but as usual they are a tiny winy bit slow if et all and this slowness is _over hyped_.

And here is a trivia for you guys MSft had bought some crucial technology from Sun (inventor of OpenGl) which was in Opengl, who said money cant buy every thing

-Gaurav

[aditya.shevade]

Yeah aero is much too better

[JGuru]

Aero looks cool enough. When a Windows O.S is infected with a virus. It's does make your head heat-up!!
Linux is far more secure & no need to install antispywares, & virus updates!!

[aditya.shevade]

That's true, But linux will come up with something to compete with vista as it's open source.

GNU, U make amusing comments when u say, DirectX is software driven, so u mean, from the last 12 years, graphics card all over, were emulating directx in software

OpenGL is vendor indipendent, thats the only good thing about it, because it can be used on any OS, with compatible drivers

DirectX was never meant to be like this, it is made for Windows only, ever heard what DirectDRAW, Direct3D, DirectSound & DirectShow is? Windows had hardware acceleration of GDI+, videos, audios from a long time, long before aero or XGL

If u ever used 3Ds Max or XSI, u will know that it has an option to use DirectX for the UI, although it's openGL inside, & that is where it excels, but due to the fact that DirectX is Windows native, using DirectX in normal graphics card which are much cheaper then Workstation cards, gives much better performance in the UI, & viewport.

Don't compare OpenGL & DirectX, they are both good where they belong