Linux could have been bigger than Windows today

[iinfi]

Linus Torvalds, in 1991 rewrote the Minix (edited) Operating System and it was later called as Linux. Only 2% of the current Linux kernel is written by Trovalds, but still he is the ultimate authority on what new code is incorporated into Lunix. Linux is an open source operating system and its code can be obtained and modified as per the user’s requirement. Developers all over the world started working on the Linux kernel and thus Linux started spreading. Business houses started changing the code as per their requirement and some started making their own distros. Companies like Red Hat, Debian, Mandrake, SuSe etc. have their own distributions of Linux and users have the flexibility of choosing from a wide array of products. Linux today is widely used desktops, palmtops, and servers and even in supercomputers.

Microsoft, founded by Bill Gates and Paul Allen in 1975, has been working on operating systems for a long-long time. Right from the time MS-DOS was introduced till Windows XP or Windows Server 2003, Microsoft has been working to build a single stable platform and always worked hard on the user-friendliness of any product they make.(I am not going much in to the security holes in the OS) That’s the reason it is the market leader and an estimated 90% of the desktop personal computers run on Windows.

Even though Linux is the preferred platform in the server category because of its stability and cost-effectiveness, it’s Windows which is the more popular one because of its user friendliness. Linux fans might disagree with me on this count, but it has to be accepted that Linux is still a nightmare for an average user. As I earlier said, there are countless companies working on different distros of Linux and several thousand developers who are striving to make their product big. On any day Linux developers far outnumber the developers working on the Windows platform. My imagination is if all these Linux developers/companies come together and strive to make a single Linux platform, work on the stability and above all the user friendliness of the OS, then Windows can be beaten outright.

I believe the main problem behind the slow movement of Linux is the innumerable number of distros which are available in the market. I think Linux’s main advantage, which I quoted earlier in this passage is acting as a deterrent to its popularity. Many users are not sure which one is best suited for them and hence think its better to go in for Windows. That’s the reason Linux movement is very slow, even though its gaining popularity

[__Virus__]

Each and every bit of wht u wrote is correct....jsut eliminate these lines
That’s the reason Linux movement is very slow, even though its gaining popularity

[desertwind]

Source ????
Author ????

[srijit]

yeah... pls specify the source if you are quoting from someplace.

[praka123]

anyway great hearing that !

[it_waaznt_me]

I just dont understand why Linux people always looks Windows as a competitor ... There are more of them .. Mac .. good old Unix .. Solaris .. (all based on Unix) .. Netware .. Why compete with Windows only ..?

Linux fans might disagree with me on this count, but it has to be accepted that Linux is still a nightmare for an average user. As I earlier said, there are countless companies working on different distros of Linux and several thousand developers who are striving to make their product big. On any day Linux developers far outnumber the developers working on the Windows platform.

I would like to comment on it .. For a starter, learnind Dos is also a nightmare so its the usablility of the system that has more significance .. Lack of support for hardware is a bigger problem .. And finding support (help) is another ..
Some of the things that I dont like in Linux are ..
Distros .. Yeah .. if you need to upgrade, download the distro .. or get it from some cds .. thats the worst thing .. most of the versions are release within 5 or 7 months so if you need to upgrade from say Suse 9.1 to 9.3, you need the whole dvd .. this sucks ..
You will never find out what went wrong if you screw up something .. Programs are installed in such a way that its *hell* difficult to manage .. Unix users might find it easy , but I feel its cr@p ..
.. ... ....

Anyways .. My point is .. if Linux is to surpass (ewww) "Windoze" , it can not depend solely on being Open Source and free ..

[iinfi]

hey
sorry guys!!! i wrote it. it is purely my opinion. the stats i got it from the net and the final opinion (Linux could have been bigger than Windows today) is my own.

[praka123]

Originally Posted by it_waaznt_me

I just dont understand why Linux people always looks Windows as a competitor ... There are more of them .. Mac .. good old Unix .. Solaris .. (all based on Unix) .. Netware .. Why compete with Windows only ..?

I would like to comment on it .. For a starter, learnind Dos is also a nightmare so its the usablility of the system that has more significance .. Lack of support for hardware is a bigger problem .. And finding support (help) is another ..
Some of the things that I dont like in Linux are ..
Distros .. Yeah .. if you need to upgrade, download the distro .. or get it from some cds .. thats the worst thing .. most of the versions are release within 5 or 7 months so if you need to upgrade from say Suse 9.1 to 9.3, you need the whole dvd .. this sucks ..
You will never find out what went wrong if you screw up something .. Programs are installed in such a way that its *hell* difficult to manage .. Unix users might find it easy , but I feel its cr@p ..
.. ... ....

Anyways .. My point is .. if Linux is to surpass (ewww) "Windoze" , it can not depend solely on being Open Source and free ..

Linux hardcore users are a cult man!We love the stability of Linux,we hate M$ ,its owner's ethics and his cheeky beeky OS flooded with loads of virus!

[srijit]

^^^ if only that were the case, it would have been ok. windows spreads virii. and that slows down the net

[__Virus__]

Originally Posted by srijit

^^^ if only that were the case, it would have been ok. windows spreads virii. and that slows down the net

M$ culprit :-l

[QwertyManiac]

i agree with batty at a point = distros r a problem to update

[mystic_hunter]

[quote="prakash kerala"]

Originally Posted by it_waaznt_me

I just dont understand why Linux people always looks Windows as a competitor ... There are more of them .. Mac .. good old Unix .. Solaris .. (all based on Unix) .. Netware .. Why compete with Windows only ..?

hey Windows deserve the position it enjoys today.... see ppl....Windows is an Enterprise Product and Linux is a Community product developed by university students....its better if we forget the rivalries and lets sign a peace treaty...dont mix up things

[__Virus__]

Originally Posted by prakash kerala

hey Windows deserve the position it enjoys today....

gota agree

[it_waaznt_me]

Originally Posted by prakash karela

Linux hardcore users are a cult man!We love the stability of Linux,we hate M$ ,its owner's ethics and his cheeky beeky OS flooded with loads of virus!

Cult you say .. Tell me .. Do we buy software to run our hardware or we buy hardware to get our software run ..? If you need to have internet access on your Linux system, You need to get an external model (which isnt cheaply available) .. Most of the printers and tv tuner cards do not work with Linux ..

And not falling into arguement, you say you hate MS cauz of "owner's ethics" .. Do you remember that Linus Torvalds v/s Andrew Tenenbaum which argues that Linus altered Tenenbaum's Minix code to create Linux ..?

Linus Torvalds, in 1991 rewrote the UNIX Operating System and it was later called as Linux

change this first

[__Virus__]

Originally Posted by it_waaznt_me

If you need to have internet access on your Linux system, You need to get an external model

geezz linux supports only MODEMS? and that too ONLY external?

[__Virus__]

Originally Posted by it_waaznt_me

Do you remember that Linus Torvalds v/s Andrew Tenenbaum which argues that Linus altered Tenenbaum's Minix code to create Linux ..?

http://people.fluidsignal.com/~lufer...Tanenbaum.html

minix...a dead mans grave....not even a bit of wht LINUX is

[it_waaznt_me]

Hahah .. Infact later Tenenbaum accepted Linux wasnt built on Minix after that Ken Brown affair ..
Lemme find the link for you ..

Thus, of course, Linus didn't sit down in a vacuum and suddenly type in the Linux source code. He had my book, was running MINIX, and undoubtedly knew the history (since it is in my book). But the code was his. The proof of this is that he messed the design up. MINIX is a nice, modular microkernel system, with the memory manager and file system running as user-space processes.
.. ...

The first version of Linux was like a time machine. It went back to a system worse than what he already had on his desk. Of course, he was just a kid and didn't know better (although if he had paid better attention in class he should have), but producing a system that was fundamentally different from the base he started with seems pretty good proof that it was a redesign.

Link ..

Damn .. I feel like arguing .. I aint gonna post any anti Linux post in this thread ..

[sba]

Originally Posted by it_waaznt_me

Cult you say .. Tell me .. Do we buy software to run our hardware or we buy hardware to get our software run ..?

*Raises Hand*
I try to buy hardware based on its Linux compatibility. I recently dropped the idea of buying a HP scanner cos it was not supported by SANE instead I am going to buy a Microtek which has "good" support with SANE. I bought my external modem when I needed to access internet just b'cos I wanted it to work on Linux. Buying hardware with closed eyes and then cursing an OS for not providing drivers is silly. I did make such a mistake long ago by buying a Motorola SM56 based modem and it was horrible finding drivers for it that worked even on WinXP. I learnt my lesson and now I always check out a hardware's Linux compatibilty. We, the users, will have to reject hardware if it is not supported by our favourite OS (in my case Linux). Then only will the manufacturers give heed to us. You are paying for your hardware then why remain shackled with an OS that you don't like just cos the manufacturer thinks that you are a minority. Go for the alternate manufacturer and hit them where it hits the most.

As far as updating the distro is concerned, I seriously don't understand the problem. If you want new features...go and update. On the other hand if a distro suffices your needs then why run behind numbers? Just stay with the thing that works for you...

[praka123]

Anyway Linux is here to stay AND Linux users are increasing only.Billi's OS most of u
r using r pirated isn't?he made us to think hardware made are for M$ only.internal modems are winmodems,it needs software flow control,while external modems are the REAL modems.

............And not falling into arguement, you say you hate MS cauz of "owner's ethics" .. Do you remember that Linus Torvalds v/s Andrew Tenenbaum which argues that Linus altered Tenenbaum's Minix code to create Linux ..?..........
Infact windows OS is a HAck of OS/2 ?
http://www.os2bbs.com/os2news/OS2Warp.html
i red somwhere only 2% of linus's code are there in today's Linux kernel.
Bill gates wants a monopoly OS.his ethics are to eliminate anything on the way of his OS.Linux is doing nothing against his OS.He and his company are responsible for putting patent warfare on Linux.
most of these guys are born and broughtup with "pirated" windows OS.that's why they are single sided.
thinging only single sided.

[mystic_hunter]

it_waaznt_me wrote:
Cult you say .. Tell me .. Do we buy software to run our hardware or we buy hardware to get our software run ..?

Open source doesnt mean that u cannot sell ur software and always remember "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."

[akshar]

Aim of Linux should not be to beat Windows or microsoft. Aim of Linux should be to create it's own standards as far as OS are concerned. Secondly there should exist atleast one giant company which can put in lots of money for the development of Linux and to take it to the mass.

Unless and untill Linux gets the level of user friendliness that windows has gained it is very difficult for it to reach the mass. You get linux for free thts true but what about the support that is specifically created for ordinary users?

Visit microsoft.com and visit any site on Linux. You will find the difference. The difference between Linux and Microsoft (one is OS other is a company) is that Microsoft is ever ready to define the future where as Linux accepts the challenges as they come to it.

[mystic_hunter]

hey dude rise up to the linux level and see....how much more u can learn....y should linux come down to our levels?

[aceman]

Originally Posted by __Virus__

Each and every bit of wht u wrote is correct....jsut eliminate these lines
That’s the reason Linux movement is very slow, even though its gaining popularity

It all depends on what U want, the ablity to write a differnt linux is One of its selling points........for example we wanted a linux only for storage applications like NAS,SAN,ISCSI....etc ( running on a power G5) ....since nothing in the open market was able to match our spec we wrote our own Linux OS due to be released in a few months and here in lies the power of Linux, not everybody wants a desktop OS, what we want is OS which can be tailored to ones needs and thus many companies (including ours) will develop different versions to suit our own needs.
also do note that Linux manynot have much of a penetration in the X86 segment , but look at the embedded systems sector , Embedded linux and RTLINUX is some of the most popular OS for the embedded sector and in Embedded N/W domain like ours the only OS we run is Linux ( WIN CE Sucks,actually it Sucks a lot)...............thus popularity is a relative term.
Linux may or maynot be popular in the desktop segment but look at other cores like ARM,PPC...etc Windows will be no where to be seen.

[it_waaznt_me]

Originally Posted by mystic_hunter

Open source doesnt mean that u cannot sell ur software and always remember "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."

I dont see what you meant by that .. I never say anything about Open Source's nature or something ..

With akshar's reference, I would like to remind that Linux was written in protest of commercial nature of Unix and not Windows .. It was a sign of liberation for programmers from commercial installations of Unix .. They never had any idea that it will extend to desktops .. You should read the early newsgroups postings ...
This anti Microsoft feeling come only when Linux started to touch the desktop boundaries .. The only competitor .. Windows .. So how to down them .. ? Just aim at their "inethical policies and ethics" ...

Originally Posted by mystic_hunter

hey dude rise up to the linux level and see....how much more u can learn....y should linux come down to our levels?

Thats the sole reason that Linux is still considered a "geek's stuff" .. Normal home desktop users do not know what Linux is and hence find it not interesting .. I remember in software engineering the first thing we were taught is "Programmers are not users and Users are not programmers" .. If a user wont find a program easy to use, he will dump it .. As easy as that ..

[it_waaznt_me]

Originally Posted by prakash kerala

Anyway Linux is here to stay AND Linux users are increasing only.Billi's OS most of u r using r pirated isn't?he made us to think hardware made are for M$ only.internal modems are winmodems,it needs software flow control,while external modems are the REAL modems.

Yes .. Linux is here to stay .. But if it is here to stay, it will have to make *many* changes .. I dont understand your logic about winmodems being software flow controlled .. So dont they perform their job ..? Mind you .. I've been using this modem for six whole years and it does give great performance to me .. I do not see any logic in buying hardware only because the software doesnt support my existing one ... If it was for a real performance gain, I'dve considered but there is none ... so out of question ..

Infact windows OS is a HAck of OS/2 ?
http://www.os2bbs.com/os2news/OS2Warp.html

Hehe .. Read the page thoroughly ..

i red somwhere only 2% of linus's code are there in today's Linux kernel.
Bill gates wants a monopoly OS.his ethics are to eliminate anything on the way of his OS.Linux is doing nothing against his OS.He and his company are responsible for putting patent warfare on Linux.
most of these guys are born and broughtup with "pirated" windows OS.that's why they are single sided.
thinging only single sided.

You read it just here .. On the first post ..

Now come to ethics .. I have argued this *many* times .. Tell me .. If you were the head of Microsoft, what wouldve you not done to make it to the top ..? You wouldve done everything to compete .. This is business .. You want your car to look better than anyone else . .. I dont see any wrong in that ..

I am *not* single sided .. I do have an installation of Suse on my system .. But I dont go and brag saying that I use Suse because I hate Microsoft and their ethics .. I use Suse because I like learning new things ..

[sba]

Originally Posted by it_waaznt_me

Normal home desktop users do not know what Linux is and hence find it not interesting .. .. If a user wont find a program easy to use, he will dump it .. As easy as that ..

Normal home desktop users do not know what Linux is...not because it has major flaws with its usability but because they have never been a Linux desktop. An average user would at the most need web surfing, write a few documents, listen to his/her MP3s and chat with a few friends. Now let me give you a situation where you are given a PC with Ubuntu/SUSE pre-installed with all such things working, would they not adapt? Of course they will. Will the user find typing in OpenOffice difficult then Word or will he/she find Amarok/Rhythmbox sound any different then WMP? This is not the case. The average joe doesn't want to migrate not because Linux is tough but because that is how he has been living for so long. He is simply too lazy to budge. Here is a message from a user on LUGD mailing list

in one sense, it is easier for people to migrate if they are given no
choice (i know it sounds autocratic, but that's what worked for us. We
did not want pirated software for legal reasons, and we couldn't afford
licensed copies. now, the general users don't even ask for windows)

^ that statement is true for everyone. today Windows is stuck into a user's throat with a long stick and then told to him that this is what you have to live with. people go out and buy an assembeled system and they are given no choice but Windows. If same thing starts to happen with Linux then I can give you a 100% guarantee that no user would ever complaint about Linux not being user friendly. That is just not true...

[it_waaznt_me]

Originally Posted by sba

An average user would at the most need web surfing, write a few documents, listen to his/her MP3s and chat with a few friends

Thats my whole point .. For a normal desktop computer, Dial up is the most common interface for Internet .. which unfortunately Linux donot support internal modems .. You will consider this a bit hyped up, but this is the sole reason I sacrifice my Linux partition whenever I need hard disk space .. The support for printers is another one ..

And yeah .. Acer started giving Linux preinstalled on their laptops to cut prices, but they started getting toooo many complains about people getting problems in using it .. and they did not have any support professionals who would take Linux troubleshooting .. They came back to WinXP again ..

I am saying it again and again .. read my first reply in the thread .. there is nothing wrong in being complex .. If you sit on W2k3 server, you will find that it too has got great customization and power but you cannot use it as a desktop system .. Because its not written for that use ..
The very roots of Linux are from Unix which was *not* written for desktop use .. And if they have to embrace this field, they will have to shed that geeky image ..

[sba]

Originally Posted by it_waaznt_me

I do not see any logic in buying hardware only because the software doesnt support my existing one ... If it was for a real performance gain, I'dve considered but there is none ... so out of question ..

Ok then consider this hypothetical situation where these Winmodems that you are so fond of didn't work on Windows and rather worked excellently under Linux. What if Windows supported only external modem and not internal. What would you do? Would you still buy the internal modem and hit your head with it or go out and buy an external one? Providing drivers for a hardware that work on a particular OS is a duty of the hardware manufacturer and not of OS. If a manufacturer doesn't want to support your needs why should you support him financially and tap him on his back that he is doing a great job???

Now come to ethics .. I have argued this *many* times .. Tell me .. If you were the head of Microsoft, what wouldve you not done to make it to the top ..? You wouldve done everything to compete .. This is business .. You want your car to look better than anyone else . .. I dont see any wrong in that ..

Of course there is nothing wrong in it but that is not the *only* thing MS is doing. They force PC manufacturers to pre-install its OS on their PCs in lieu of discounts. They pay rival companies to throw patent law suites on companies they want out of their way. This is unethical and that is what everyone talks about. If everyone thinks "i m not effected by it" then there will be time when you *will* be effected by it. Doing business doesn't mean uprooting competition by unethical ways. Let me give you an example the way you did. Imagine there is a huge hotel and you own a small eating place near it. People visit your place often b'cos of your cordial service and excellent dishes but your place is not very beautiful. What happens? The big hotel owner doesn't like you. He uses his money power and stops your supplies by forcing your suppliers to either supply the raw material to him or to you. Additionally he makes lots of govt. agencies to work against you. You would like all this? After all the hotel owner is just doing business or is it business at all??? Think about it...

I am *not* single sided .. I do have an installation of Suse on my system .. But I dont go and brag saying that I use Suse because I hate Microsoft and their ethics .. I use Suse because I like learning new things ..

No one is bragging. That is just how a few people feel about Microsoft. That is our opinion...you are free you have your own.

[sba]

Originally Posted by it_waaznt_me

And yeah .. Acer started giving Linux preinstalled on their laptops to cut prices, but they started getting toooo many complains about people getting problems in using it .. and they did not have any support professionals who would take Linux troubleshooting .. They came back to WinXP again ..

You gotta be kidding me when you talk about Acer. Tell me truthfully...do you have any idea that which distro was being preinstalled by Acer on its laptops and what were its features?