Linux could have been bigger than Windows today

[it_waaznt_me]

Ah .. Sadly this is turning into another debate .. But go ahead ..

Ok then consider this hypothetical situation where these Winmodems that you are so fond of didn't work on Windows and rather worked excellently under Linux. What if Windows supported only external modem and not internal. What would you do? Would you still buy the internal modem and hit your head with it or go out and buy an external one? Providing drivers for a hardware that work on a particular OS is a duty of the hardware manufacturer and not of OS. If a manufacturer doesn't want to support your needs why should you support him financially and tap him on his back that he is doing a great job???

No sir, demand determine the price .. Internal modems are cheap because they are sold much .. and they are sold becuase there is software to run it .. Your logic wouldve worked if internal modems were invented after Linux arrived .. But its the other way round .. Linux arrived after modems ... so it was the job of coders to support it in their systems .. The excellent support people tell me that as winmodems use software data flow control, it cannot be implemented in Linux or whatever .. And let me tell you ... if external modems were the only supported by Windows, their price wouldve been much lower than what it is now ..

Imagine there is a huge hotel and you own a small eating place near it. People visit your place often b'cos of your cordial service and excellent dishes but your place is not very beautiful. What happens? The big hotel owner doesn't like you. He uses his money power and stops your supplies by forcing your suppliers to either supply the raw material to him or to you. Additionally he makes lots of govt. agencies to work against you. You would like all this? After all the hotel owner is just doing business or is it business at all??? Think about it...

Excellent example .. But we are here debating not as the hotel owners but as their customers .. The customer will go where they will find their needs getting fulfilled ..If the big hotel owner is fulfiling them, why not .. And just tell me .. Do we *ever* consider the ethics or their policies before going to say a hotel or a restaurant ..? We do what concerns us ..

[Edit]You posted while I was replying .. Yupp I screwed up there .. I think it was Zenith and not Acer .. And with all bad luck I cant seem to find link to the story ..

[sba]

Originally Posted by it_waaznt_me

.. But its the other way round .. Linux arrived after modems ... so it was the job of coders to support it in their systems ..

What??? So if an OS comes after a hardware it is duty of the OS to provide drivers???
mate, just tell me do you see manufacturers providing drivers with their hardware for every Windows version or not? If your point is true then why do we get driver's CD with every hardware we get? Why do we get drivers from Win 98 to WinXP? I simply don't understand. Do you look for your drivers on the hardware manufacturer's website or on Microsoft.com? Another example: I have a old printer by HP and I need it to work on WinXP, do I look for drivers on microsoft.com or hp.com? Be it old or new...the onus of providing drivers is on the shoulders of a manufacturer and not on an OS.

Excellent example .. But we are here debating not as the hotel owners but as their customers .. The customer will go where they will find their needs getting fulfilled ..If the big hotel owner is fulfiling them, why not .. And just tell me .. Do we *ever* consider the ethics or their policies before going to say a hotel or a restaurant ..? We do what concerns us ..

You started the angle of business man and said that doing business that way is not wrong which is why I gave you the example of a business man. Now you wanna talk the consumer point of view...fine by me...
Consider this...
You are not very rich and till now have been stealing food from the back door of the huge hotel. Suddenly the small joint pops up...and you think..."Hey I can afford his food". You go in there...enjoy the service and the food but after a few days you come to know all the ugly things the big hotel owner is doing with the small place. Would you be amused? You don't care? If you don't...then you are doing a HUGE mistake. Why? Here's why...
The hotel owner knows that he has a back door from where the food is being stolen but he is just allowing you to have fun until he forces all the small joints to shut down and then he will force you to shell huge amount of money for his food. If you don't care about the ethics today then you WILL care about it tomorrow. FOR SURE!!!

[srijit]

woot am getting confused
i have just one plea.
if you decide to try Linux, please keep an open mind and be prepared to learn.
it gives me great satisfaction in learning how to do things in linux. all this talk about winmodems, just search for linmodems in google. get the help of the community. someone will always help. :d

[mystic_hunter]

I dont see what you meant by that .. I never say anything about Open Source's nature or something ..

With akshar's reference, I would like to remind that Linux was written in protest of commercial nature of Unix and not Windows .. It was a sign of liberation for programmers from commercial installations of Unix .. They never had any idea that it will extend to desktops .. You should read the early newsgroups postings ...
This anti Microsoft feeling come only when Linux started to touch the desktop boundaries .. The only competitor .. Windows .. So how to down them .. ? Just aim at their "inethical policies and ethics" ...

yep i know u never meant it but i thought i could make a point worth thinking.

Thats the sole reason that Linux is still considered a "geek's stuff" .. Normal home desktop users do not know what Linux is and hence find it not interesting .. I remember in software engineering the first thing we were taught is "Programmers are not users and Users are not programmers" .. If a user wont find a program easy to use, he will dump it .. As easy as that ..

Knowledge has become the wealth of nations....and our country is not apart from it...if the indian community can rise up...may be we ll be the first persons on mars...who knows

[vignesh]

Once the winmodems start working in Linux or someone writes the drives for them , Linux will become big.

[akshar]

Problem with Linux users that they are still stressing on the point that Linux is so powerful n robust n sometimes even more userfriendliness. But I still feel that unless and untill the
Linux world is not managed properly it will not get as popular as Windows.

Imagine a car company just givig away it's cars for free. But still people are reluctant to use it why?

[sba]

Originally Posted by akshar

Imagine a car company just givig away it's cars for free. But still people are reluctant to use it why?

B'cos people have fallen in a habit of stealing *better looking* cars?

[it_waaznt_me]

Phew .. What a terrible day .. Okay .. So ..? Heck .. I am tired of all this ( ..

The onus of the programmers lies in creating support for hardware in the operating system .. then only the manufacturers can create drivers .. And as Linux is a community project, if manufacturers do no provide drivers, someone from the community write it .. But this has not done for modems .. Why ..? Because Linux natively doesnt support it ..

And lol .. I loved your pun on piracy .. But here we are talking about operating systems which we do not go and buy everyday .. for most people its one time investment and it goes like that .. so if you have paid once for the food and you got the service, why goto a joint ..?

Once the winmodems start working in Linux or someone writes the drives for them , Linux will become big.

Lol .. that wont happen .. SM56 and Conexant are the most common modems around and after so many efforts, the modems do not work .. There is one site which sells drivers for Conexant for a price in which you can buy an external modem .. or better hire a programmer to do tha job .. ..

[it_waaznt_me]

And for the "ethics" discussion .. Using Linux as a protest against Microsoft's ethics is like buying an Indian bike (fuel efficient, cost efficient, good service, blah blah ) instead of Hero Honda (most of what Indian bikes too have) only because you say that Japan started second world war and your great great grandfather's puppy died in it ..
Why not highlight the good points of Linux instead of criticising MS' ones ..?

[theraven]

i dun think most of u ppl get the point of linux
or even the point bat put forward very simply ...
even hes gettin a lil excited and explainin various aspects of each os .. which is understandable !!

let goto basics ..
its like comparing apples with oranges ...
U JUST CANT !!
for ANY comparison to be valid ... u need a "common" base !
linux and windows HAVE NO COMMON BASE !!
well not a wide enought one anyways ..
hence it is STUPIDITY to compare them

every person in this thread , or otherwise , who says "windows rulez" or "windows is overated, linuz rules" are basically 2 sides of a coin

they are 2 diff ppl , one who likes apples .. the other who likes oranges
one who likes coffee , the other who likes toffee
the argument CONTINUES .. with NO DEFINITE RESULT
its like having an argument abt which antivirus u use , or which browser u use
it IS infact a matter of choice !

LINUX OS was built with a whole different mind set than windows OS
and the fact that slowly and in the near future , it is/can/may give windows a run for the money does NOT make it eligible for a comparison yet !

for one very simepl eg. linux is prefered as a server os over windows
reasons:
1) greater uptimes
2) CHOICE !

windows is prefered over linux as a workstation OS
reasons
1) user friendliness
2) no CLI trainin required
3) a longer runnin time as primary PC OS

i could mention a lot more points .. but they will just become REDUNDANT
pointin to the same point ..
there is NO comparison !

hack, just make a standerd in linux & it will beat windows

[it_waaznt_me]

Hmm.. I am bloodied but unbowed .. ..

My point for the whole thread was Linux people should accept the truth that ethics are not the reason they switched over to Linux ..

Phew ..

end this, it has been discussed many times already

[mystic_hunter]

Originally Posted by theraven

let goto basics ..
its like comparing apples with oranges ...
U JUST CANT !!
for ANY comparison to be valid ... u need a "common" base !
linux and windows HAVE NO COMMON BASE !!
well not a wide enought one anyways ..
hence it is STUPIDITY to compare them

every person in this thread , or otherwise , who says "windows rulez" or "windows is overated, linuz rules" are basically 2 sides of a coin

they are 2 diff ppl , one who likes apples .. the other who likes oranges
one who likes coffee , the other who likes toffee
the argument CONTINUES .. with NO DEFINITE RESULT
its like having an argument abt which antivirus u use , or which browser u use
it IS infact a matter of choice !

LINUX OS was built with a whole different mind set than windows OS
and the fact that slowly and in the near future , it is/can/may give windows a run for the money does NOT make it eligible for a comparison yet !

for one very simepl eg. linux is prefered as a server os over windows
reasons:
1) greater uptimes
2) CHOICE !

windows is prefered over linux as a workstation OS
reasons
1) user friendliness
2) no CLI trainin required
3) a longer runnin time as primary PC OS

i could mention a lot more points .. but they will just become REDUNDANT
pointin to the same point ..
there is NO comparison !

yep theres no point fighting each other....if Windows is like a rose then Linux is the fragrance
Win is enterprise product and linux is community....whats the use when u can make no money out of ur creativity...or a revolutionary idea...but other flip is u can spread the knowledge becoz if u spend knowledge it increases unboundly but if money is spent then its decreases by scores
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources"

[iinfi]

i started this thread jus to air my opinion and not to start a windows v/s Linux debate .... this thread has gone into windows v/s linux war :d

[sujithtom]

Well if u ask me Linux will not be as popular as Windows for atleast 1 year b'coz every stupid companies are just making newer versions of Linux which is far more complicated than previous so it will not attract a newbie and god damn agencies are providing support. Yeah u will say Red Hat and such coprate companies are providing support but only to Pro users. If an average Indian home user ever feels to migrate to Linux the reson will be money. Windows wil cost about Rs 4000 to Rs 6000 and Linux is free. They will not buy non-free Oses. Users will simply prefer Windows b'coz cracked copies are available in plenty, Windows based applcations are also available in plenty and they get enough support from the vendor itself.

[vignesh]

When I talk to people about Linux all they know is Redhat or don`t know about Linux at all !