Linux as desktop- my observations/experiences

[Aijaz Akhtar]

No more woes, but an observation I want to share. I have been ?fiddling? with Linux and as Gnurag put it that I am installing many distros, I have come to some conclusions. If the developers can put a thought to it, the Linux as a desktop is sure to win over WIN.
There are most user friendly distros like Xandros and Linspire, but they are all poor in features. Then there are others which are very advanced and generally force a user to learn lot many commands and Linux jargons.
Linux can be said really ready for the desktop when the GUI is as user friendly as linspire and installation of additional software as easy as in Windows.
Besides, there is no consensus on the use of commands too. Nor in the jargon in various distros. Say, some call partitions like hda1, hda2, (and sda for removable media etc.) others call them sda1, sda2, or even sda-1, sda-2. Once I learnt to use the editing of fstab file in some distros, that did not work in others. Likewise, the Grub/Lilo conf files are different in all distros. Why not like Linux kernel, there is a standardisation of all this? Even shells, some commands that the forum members have suggested do not work in the shell of the distro I wanted for!! I even do not know if the console I am working is Bash or some thing else??

[ujjwal]

I would agree with you to a certain extent, more emphasis on "choice" rather than "standardisation" may be harming linux on the desktop, but, speaking for myself, I like it that way.

One of my primary distro's, Arch Linux, uses a different device name format. It would have /dev/discs/discX/partY inplace of /dev/hdXY . Longer to type, but a tad more logical. However, I haven't seen a distro use /dev/sdx for IDE hard drives, which one is this?

However, distro's intended at home users, like Fedora, Suse, Mandrake, stick to similiar standards. But when you try lots of distro's you are sure to come across many differences.

Grub/Lilo config's rarely differ in syntax, but they may be created (arranged) differently. However the basic syntax should be the same.

Rarely do GNU/Linux distro's use something other than bash, however, some times, some thing you think is a command, would actually be a program which is executed by the shell. "sudo", "more", "vi", are examples of these. Standard ones like more and vi would be present on almost every distro, but something like sudo may not have been installed. Actually, even very basic things like "ls" are also programs. Type "help" in bash to see a list of the internal commands recognised by the shell. Not too many.

In some cases one would find that there has to be a compromise between ease of use and power, but then among linux distro's, I felt otherwise on trying Vector Linux.

[GNUrag]

Originally Posted by ujjwal

However, I haven't seen a distro use /dev/sdx for IDE hard drives, which one is this?

Some distributions (I remember Knoppix) use SCSI emulation mode for normal IDE drives. They have ide-scsi module loaded all the time.

[pradeep_chauhan]

On the topic i would add that linux sees all SATA disks as scsi thus if one has a SATA disk its called a /dev/sda

[GNUrag]

Originally Posted by Aijaz Akhtar

No more woes, but an observation I want to share. I have been ?fiddling? with Linux and as Gnurag put it that I am installing many distros, I have come to some conclusions. If the developers can put a thought to it, the Linux as a desktop is sure to win over WIN.

See, I am using Debian at my home and office both. I am totally satisfied with the look and feel, i.e. overall flavour of Debian. I find that KDE 3.4 and GNOME 2.10 are as friendly as Windows in many respects. I install software using Synaptic . I do not face any dependency problems.

What i really believe is that we'd start liking GNU/Linux distros when we stop cribbing and comparing it with Windows. True we may miss certain things like watching certain video formats or playing certain games. But there's hardly anything we can do about it.

Originally Posted by Aijaz Akhtar

Linux can be said really ready for the desktop when the GUI is as user friendly as linspire and installation of additional software as easy as in Windows.

Originally Posted by Aijaz Akhtar

Besides, there is no consensus on the use of commands too.

Each and every command and config file has a predefined syntax which try to conform to System V standards. What may happen (for example), at times is that some distributions have some particular view about security. So Ubuntu for instance disables root's password. In this particular case you have to use sudo instead of su . Hence the commands sugested by your friends may not work.

Originally Posted by Aijaz Akhtar

Nor in the jargon in various distros. Say, some call partitions like hda1, hda2, (and sda for removable media etc.) others call them sda1, sda2, or even sda-1, sda-2. Once I learnt to use the editing of fstab file in some distros, that did not work in others.

That is why i insist people to take some time to understand carefully their requirements. and select their best distribution. Hopping from one distro to another just because their friend suggested will land you up into much more confusion (only applicable for new users)

Originally Posted by Aijaz Akhtar

... I even do not know if the console I am working is Bash or some thing else??

$ echo $SHELL should tell you. Even $ ps will list the shell you are currently running.

[Aijaz Akhtar]

Thanks folks. Meanwhile there is an interesting discussion here:
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl...5/07/05/006223

[mediator]

If ur paranoid about ur data the then u would sure choose linux,windows is for making u sick, the only job u do is cleaning hardisk, running antiviruses and antispywares for making windows live a little longer!
You should go for open source leader i.e redhat or FC4 if u want features!

[vignesh]

Ya if you give data utmost importance go for Linux and you need not always be afraid while surfing the net.

[FilledVoid]

Basically I went through what you did . I tried distro to distro and almost oulled my hair out. I then stuck with one distro ( mandrake 10.1) and then seemed to have slowly learned the process of using it. I find that Mandrake has all the features I need and I have barely used any commands at all. Although I have learned some of the basic ones.

[gauravnawani]

I agree with most part what GNUrag have said.

The problems are only with those windows centric user who try to use Linux, and expect every thing to be Urr... windows like. The reason for likeness of Xandros and Linspire are not much different, not that there is any thing wrong with it but I think the approach is flawed for learning Linux.

It is of primary importance that a persons should first realize that Linux is NOT windows!! Certainly you cannot expect two different people be same or for that matter you try to treat them same. Someone unconsciously switching from win to Linux will always have problems.

Mostly a casual windows users or a complete noob to computers find it easy to use Linux. I have observed this number of times with many people of different ages(My relatives to be exact), just a short while ago my Uncle, whom we can describe as an authentic casual computer user(using word-processing and internet). Didn't really noticed the difference between using the Word and OOfice, on his queries for the differences, like multilevel tables, I said I am using different software. He was ok with it and we found different alternative for that. Try reasoning with a person who is adamant it not working just like windows??

Most new users who want (I used want because most people are not even aware of such thing called Linux compared to windows) to learn Linux will have to invest some time learning. The right approach is in providing help and support in setting up the Linux box to their specific needs. And that's where the Linux community comes in.

BTW hda is for Hard disks and sda is for USB media. There are plenty of standardization programs Linux have been working with (Do a Google search for Linux standards) most of them are pretty new compared with whole Linux history. It will take time to get even better.

Learning few simple commands for terminal have never killed any body.
Argument: Why not the GUI way?
Ans: Because its not the Linux way.
I would rather enjoy the productivity advantage it can give to me, than clicking/right-clicking through maze of folders. Its obviously a personal choice, but there is no denying the fact that it is incredible tool for the wanted. The linux development will ensure these will be hidden to maximum extent for casual users, but we have to wait and watch.

I have a request for you Mr Aijaz, stop pretending to use Linux and start using it(Morpheious!). Well I find it bit strange that you are on one hand making contribution in GNU/Linux localization but on other hand you are posting increasingly annoying threads of same nature(I am aware that you said that these are your observations, but I find it hard to actually note any difference).

I for one doubt the relevance of these threads on this form. I would be amazed if you can show me any poster here with major hand in developing any GNU/Linux products or even affecting any aspects of it especially the ones you mention so often.

I am not trying to stop you or anyting, not do I intend any wrong feelings , its more of an request to find a suitable place like Linux development forums or the place where an end user prespective is of usefulness in bringing these changes.

On an open note, I will quote this. (No pun intended)
Medicority finds safey in standarization - unknown.

[Aijaz Akhtar]

Well Gaurav. I always maintain that if the Linux community is serious about spreading the message of Gnu/FOSS, we must tempt the newbies to enjoy working in Linux they way they had been doing in the other environment. And I merely object to statements that "IT IS NOT THE LINUX WAY". Why horrify the new potential users?

[gauravnawani]

Originally Posted by Aijaz Akhtar

Well Gaurav. I always maintain that if the Linux community is serious about spreading the message of Gnu/FOSS, we must tempt the newbies to enjoy working in Linux they way they had been doing in the other environment. And I merely object to statements that "IT IS NOT THE LINUX WAY". Why horrify the new potential users?

In general philosiphy I beleive if a person is understanding enough and have capacity and willingness to learn, he should be helped, but that does not mean giving it to every one who does not understands or appreciates the GNU/FOSS philosiply at the first place.

If there is such a potential user and he can clearly differenciate between the two things. He will then have a understanding of choice, and it should be his decision to learn and use it. Luring or tempting a "potential" user is not very right IHMO. I will rather wait for a sign of curosity & learning.

[Aijaz Akhtar]

Originally Posted by gauravnawani

I have a request for you Mr Aijaz, stop pretending to use Linux and start using it(Morpheious!). Well I find it bit strange that you are on one hand making contribution in GNU/Linux localization but on other hand you are posting increasingly annoying threads of same nature(I am aware that you said that these are your observations, but I find it hard to actually note any difference).

I for one doubt the relevance of these threads on this form. I would be amazed if you can show me any poster here with major hand in developing any GNU/Linux products or even affecting any aspects of it especially the ones you mention so often.

I am not trying to stop you or anyting, not do I intend any wrong feelings , its more of an request to find a suitable place like Linux development forums or the place where an end user prespective is of usefulness in bringing these changes.

OK this is yet another farce. If I am interested in l10n, I MUST subscribe to the command mode working in Linux!! Bhai, IT IS THE VERY REASON that I condemn people supporting CLI. Imagine a farmer from Keonjhar who feels that computer is all hi-fi thing. And he suddenly finds a PC desktop in his language Oriya. Won't he like to try his hands on it. AND MIND IT, he would be able to READ the Oriya on the desktop, so YOU MUST PROVIDE HIM A GUI where he can install Oriya fonts IN ORIYA Don't expect him to type cp /media/cdrom0/utkalm.ttf ....... (and after 'su'ing). WE must endeavour to remove the digital divide, NOT EXTEND ITS SPAN friends!
And yes, I fuly endorse your last point. The developers must take into account the end users.

[gauravnawani]

Originally Posted by Aijaz Akhtar

OK this is yet another farce. If I am interested in l10n, I MUST subscribe to the command mode working in Linux!! Bhai, IT IS THE VERY REASON that I condemn people supporting CLI. Imagine a farmer from Keonjhar who feels that computer is all hi-fi thing. And he suddenly finds a PC desktop in his language Oriya. Won't he like to try his hands on it. AND MIND IT, he would be able to READ the Oriya on the desktop, so YOU MUST PROVIDE HIM A GUI where he can install Oriya fonts IN ORIYA Don't expect him to type cp /media/cdrom0/utkalm.ttf ....... (and after 'su'ing). WE must endeavour to remove the digital divide, NOT EXTEND ITS SPAN friends!
And yes, I fuly endorse your last point. The developers must take into account the end users.

I am glad that you brought up this issue. See as far as I can see if a farmer or a person that have not seen technology before, I dont think anyone including me will aks him to understand CLI to begin with. So using or calling CLI there is not useful. But I was merely regarding this as a useful nusiance(nusiance for those who think) for general people like us who dabble with technology every day, with regard to the current situation of linux.

I will ask you a simple question, have not used CLI? I think you might have, was it due to that you liked it or there was no other choice? I hope you can see the reason I say it is necessary. But consider for a moment that you are using a GNOME3 desktop complete with Indian localaziation and plenty of COMPLETE applications that makes a DE. I suppose there would be no need for a average user that time. Our friendly kissan will be even more subdued(as in awestruck) by technology.

Localaziation is very important for a developing country like ours, buts still its in its fancy. We have to deal with what we have now.