Core i3-370 vs AMD Phenom II N850(triple core)..Which one is better ?

[giprabu]

I have a dilemma of choosing a laptop based on the above processors..

And most of the laptops are powered by intel processors, why is it so ?

Since there are very few models with amd processors, does it mean amd proccys are unreliable for laptops ?

[Sam]

well go for the Core i3 proccy based lappy. i3 has Hyper Threading (2 cores, 4 threads), lower power requirements, inbuilt graphics. AMD phenom processors aren't suited for lappy as it eats more power & performs is lower than any Intel Core i series proccy.

also in lappy ppls look for backup time more than graphics power (usually) or VFM. so 2 important points where AMD holds strength looses out. i'll say for now, at least, better don't get any AMD based lappy. not worth the couple of thousands you save. better invest in a laptop with Core i3 + 3-4Gb ram & HD5470 or HD5650. you'll get a bit slower proccy than i5 or the one you specified but better graphics at same price

[giprabu]

^^^thanks dude..

[Sam]

welcome buddy

[saifikhan]

AMD Phenom II N850 (triple core) is a Mobile processor ! The AMD mobile processor series is a newly designed low-power series on 35W and ultra-low voltage 18W series.

You may want to take a closer look at laptops powered by this mobile processor.

Originally Posted by giprabu

Since there are very few models with amd processors, does it mean amd proccys are unreliable for laptops ?

NO. Reliability is a manifestation of engineering. AMD engineers have done pioneering work with 64-bit architecture, on-die memory controller, hypertransport and off-course working around the non-licensed intel patent landmine.

The number of products coming out depend on market maturity, price senstivity, age of the person who is buying, deals and blockers aka business practices. It's a case of Intel paying billions to keep AMD away.

On a related note, European Trade commission fined Intel USD 1.5 billion, AMD settlement USB 1.25 billion, Dell's shame and US Federal Trade commission fine running into billions of dollars.

On Amazon site, you can see under 'Laptop' category

• AMD approx 89 entries.
• Intel approx 300 entries.

Thats approximately 3 intel offerings for every one AMD offering in the US market. However, in the Indian market its like 40 intel offerings for every one AMD offering.

So, the skew is because of the deals.

AMD mobile processors are just beginning to be looked at given the attractive pricing and top notch quality.

All the desktops and laptops i use are AMD only because i get better value for money, reliability and performance.

The complete list of AMD mobile processors is here. They are classified as - for home, for work. And within each category you have - mainstream (25-35W) and ultrathin (18W).
http://www.amd.com/us/products/noteb...platforms.aspx

Hope this helps.

[desiibond]

I think core i3-370M is faster here. Even though N850 is labelled as Phenom,it's based on desktop Athlon II X3 which means that it is more of a budget CPU (no Turbo, no L3 cache etc). Battery backup should not be an issue with this processor as few HP laptops go to 5-7hr battery life but this processor is not meant for performance

[saifikhan]

Originally Posted by desiibond

Even though N850 is labelled as Phenom,it's based on desktop Athlon II X3

Not quite.

Phenom II mobile processor range is based on the Danube platform which is leveraged on AMD K10 microarchitecture. The Athlon II X3 operate on 45W and 95W TDP. Athlon II X3 is AM3 while Phenom II is S1G4. Pal, they are different dies

The theoretical performance advantage of Intel core i3-370M is seen as it operates at 2.4GHz while AMD Phenom II N850 triple-core operates at 2.2GHz. The user is going to use some software app and this difference is marginal.

[ico]

Both are equally same in performance according to PassMark. Although Core i3-370M has an L3 cache which would help in gaming.

Both the processors have the same TDP of 35w too. Consider comparing the laptops by taking the other features into account.

Originally Posted by Sam.Shab

AMD phenom processors aren't suited for lappy as it eats more power & performs is lower than any Intel Core i series proccy.

Times have changed. Nile and Danube both are very competitive. This isn't like the early Turion which was crap.

These Phenom II mobile processors are actually good. The fastest Phenom II N950 can easily keep up with a Core i3-540M on PassMark.

Edit: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

[ssb1551]

Good to know that laptop buyers have now an option too!!Hope AMD is marketed properly.People are so less aware about AMD.Forget 40 : 1!!At places like mine its 100 : 1..

[giprabu]

Originally Posted by saifikhan

On a related note, European Trade commission fined Intel USD 1.5 billion, AMD settlement USB 1.25 billion, Dell's shame and US Federal Trade commission fine running into billions of dollars.

well. . This is something new to me.. Increases respect towards AMD. .

So from your discussions, can i conclude these things ?

#Amd's turion mobile processor was only bad and not the danube and phenom ones.

#power consumption is same as intel core-i mobile proccys.

#Core-i has L3 cache that supports some gaming but AMD's entry level dual core proccys are well suited for very basic regular stuffs like Movies, surfing etc and they are vfm processors.

[desiibond]

Originally Posted by saifikhan

Not quite.

Phenom II mobile processor range is based on the Danube platform which is leveraged on AMD K10 microarchitecture. The Athlon II X3 operate on 45W and 95W TDP. Athlon II X3 is AM3 while Phenom II is S1G4. Pal, they are different dies

The theoretical performance advantage of Intel core i3-370M is seen as it operates at 2.4GHz while AMD Phenom II N850 triple-core operates at 2.2GHz. The user is going to use some software app and this difference is marginal.

hmm.

Athlon II X3 425 : Rana core, 45nm

Phenom II N850 : Champlain core, 45nm

Both these two are based on K10 microarchitecture.

Just because N850 uses S1G4 doesn't mean that its totally different. Most AMD mobile processors use Socket S1 while AMx is meant for desktops. And comparing TDP of desktop and mobile processors?

It's a different die. Who will use the same die for both deskop and mobile processors? The point is, it is similar to desktop Athlon II X3's and as it is designed for notebooks, it has lower TDP, different socket, lower clock etc etc.

Compare it with Phenom II processors that have L3 cache (and Turbo Core) and you will know how much of a difference is there in terms of performance.

@ico:

Forget about synthetic benchmarks. Here are four reviews citing same issue. Lacklustre application performance:

HP Pavilion dv7-4165dx Review & Rating | PCMag.com
Dell Inspiron iM501R-1655MRB Review & Rating | PCMag.com
Toshiba Satellite L675D-S7046 Review & Rating | PCMag.com
HP Pavilion dv7-4171us Review & Rating | PCMag.com

This processor is definitely a step up from Turion II but still there is a long way to go if AMD wants to compete with core i3 and core i5.

A better example is to look at the benchmarks in following pages:

AMD Phenom II X4 N930 Notebook Processor - Notebookcheck.net Tech

Intel Core i3 330M Notebook Processor - Notebookcheck.net Tech

And take a look at this benchmark comparison:




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This test is lot more meaningful where a laptop with core i3 and Intel graphics trumps one with N850 and HD4200 (not dedicated GPU)PC Magazine

[ico]

Originally Posted by desiibond

AMD Phenom II X4 N930 Notebook Processor - Notebookcheck.net Tech

Intel Core i3 330M Notebook Processor - Notebookcheck.net Tech

And take a look at this benchmark comparison:

In some benchmarks N830 still has the lead compared to i3-330M. SuperPi is not taking the advantage of N830's third core hence the higher time whereas wPrime is. I had mentioned the lack of L3 cache above.

P820 is a lower TDP alternative. [much like Core 2 Duo Txxxx and Pxxxx]

Originally Posted by desiibond

This test is lot more meaningful where a laptop with core i3 and Intel graphics trumps one with N850 and HD4200 (not dedicated GPU)PC Magazine

The AMD laptops are cheaper by ~120$. [that's what a quick Googling tells]

There have been positive reviews too, like here I can cite one from Anandtech: Toshiba T235D: AMD's 2010 Ultrathin "Nile" Platform - AnandTech (this is a $500 notebook with a low-end Turion II Neo)

I must say, Intel's GMA trouncing HD 4200 is kind of untrue, really. Can't trust PCMag on that.

[desiibond]

Originally Posted by ico

g pages:


In some benchmarks N830 still has the lead compared to i3-330M. SuperPi is not taking the advantage of N830's third core hence the higher time whereas wPrime is. I had mentioned the lack of L3 cache above.

P820 is a lower TDP alternative. [much like Core 2 Duo Txxxx and Pxxxx]



The AMD laptops are cheaper by ~120$. [that's what a quick Googling tells]

There have been positive reviews too, like here I can cite one from Anandtech: Toshiba T235D: AMD's 2010 Ultrathin "Nile" Platform - AnandTech (this is a $500 notebook with a low-end Turion II Neo)

I must say, Intel's GMA trouncing HD 4200 is kind of untrue, really. Can't trust PCMag on that.

here in India, there is hardly a difference of 1k between core i3 370 (inspiron 15) and N850 laptops (inspiron 501R) if you consider Dell. Both are around 37k with dedicated GPU. While 501R comes with 550v (dx10.1), I15 comes with 5470(dx11). 550v gives more performance though.

the reason why intel GMA trumped HD4200 is due to the extra performance given by core i3-370. When it comes to gaming, AMD should have slight advantage.

In single threaded applications, there is no denying the fact that core i3 is much faster, thanks to its better architecture.
In multi threaded applications, core i3 is able to beat Phenom II X3 M in apps that doesn't rely much on GPU (like photoshop, handbrake etc). This can be evened out by picking laptop that has discrete GPU and core i3/i5
Not to forget core i3 takes less power and generated less heat when compared to Phenom II X3 M and this results in longer battery life.

[ico]

More "proper" reviews:
Toshiba Satellite A660D-ST2G01: AMD's Quad-Core Phenom II P920 Joins the Mobile Party - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

ASUS X72D/K72DR: Three Cores, No Waiting - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

Real benchmarks

Spoiler:

Now as you can see, N830 + HD 5470 keeps up well with i5-430M + HD 5470....so, can anyone really trust PCMag on that?? ....also i5-430M is on par with i3-370M almost.

Those were proper benchmarks according to me. [Dell Studio 14 and Asus X27D] Equivalent graphics and different processors.

Battery life has always been on Intel's side.

[saifikhan]

Originally Posted by desiibond

hmm.
...
It's a different die. Who will use the same die for both deskop and mobile processors? The point is, it is similar to desktop Athlon II X3's and as it is designed for notebooks, it has lower TDP, different socket, lower clock etc etc.

How is AMD Phenom II triple core N850 similar to desktop Athlon II X3 ?

If similarity was so easy as your sweeping argument, then AMD wouldn't have waited for more than one year to release it's Mobility platform. AMD would have just rebranded all their processors and said they're ready

Did you hear that at a marketing / sales pitch somewhere ?

[damngoodman999]

i3 wud be Better in lot especially Battery BackUp 32nm Wud take Less Power Than 45Nm

[Kevin B]

great discussion, i have been reading up on this for a bit from other sources. It looks to me the i3 is the safe bet. I have read any praises about the amd over intel, cept in price. Though holiday discounts are on, and
comparing
Newegg.com - Acer Aspire AS7551G-6477 NoteBook AMD Phenom II Triple-Core N850(2.2GHz) 17.3" 4GB Memory DDR3 1066 500GB HDD 5400rpm DVD Super Multi ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5650

to

Newegg.com - TOSHIBA Satellite L655-S5111 NoteBook Intel Core i3 370M(2.40GHz) 15.6" 4GB Memory DDR3 1066 500GB HDD 5400rpm DVD Super Multi ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5650

I think the toshiba is the better built one