Odd problem : Need Help

[Anx02]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this board, mostly to seek some help on a problem I'm having since long. I'm having a problem since 4 months, which is decreasing the performance of my gfx card, but can't be able to find out what's causing it. Here's my pc's config:

AMD X2 6000+
XFX 8200 mobo
4 GB Transcend RAM (DDR2 800)
XFX 8800GT
320 GB Seagate+250 GB Hitachi
Cooler Master Extreme Power Plus 600w

Pretty old system (2 yrs), anyway, it used to run all games @1280x1024 or @1024x768 with decent FPS (above 30). But my psu died 2 times in the last 2 yrs and after I got a replacement for the 2nd time in this April, my gfx card's performance went down. For ex., previously I used to score about 10500 in 3D Mark 06 (no OC...default settings). But after getting the new psu, the score went down to 8500 (Win 7 gfx WEI scores also went down). This might indicate to the psu itself but I didn't believe it as it was brand new (it was even changed this time to extreme power 'plus', previously I had the old extreme power 'duo'). My gfx card and procy both were overheating (both shoots up to 100c and more). So I sent the gfx card to RMA and just a few days ago I got it back, but they gave me a 8800 GTX instead as GT was unavailable. It isn't overheating and I was glad...but that problem isn't solved . I still get the same score in 3d Mark and WEI. And I still didn't RMA my procy (it's still overheating) as my pc would become useless for a while then. However, I've become so frustrated that I'm thinking of changing the entire base (procy, ram, mobo).

But before that I want to find out what's exactly causing the problem. Can anyone here please help me out in this? If this is a psu problem then it's really weird because other than this performance issue, my pc has been running fine with this psu for the last 4 months. And if this is a procy problem then how come it's lowering down the SM3 and SM4 scores of 3D Mark 06 (the procy score is also decreasing, but not that much). I'm even thinking if I should format and reinstall windows (maybe sounds stupid).

Please help!

[pimpom]

First of all, I suggest that next time you need help with a problem, you should give some indication of the nature of the problem in your subject line. Otherwise, many readers will ignore the post without even opening it.

Now, formatting your OS partition and reinstalling Windows isn't really stupid. Windoze is such a complex beast that, except for a real expert, it's often more effective to do a fresh installation than to try to diagnose the problem.

Have you checked all your BIOS and software settings to see if everything is running as it was before? A PSU can cause a drop in performance. But without a fresh installation, it may be hard to determine if it's a hardware or software problem.

[Cool Buddy]

I think your PSU caused the problem. Xtreme power PSUs are very bad quality. If you can spare some money, change the PSU to Corsair VX450 @3.7k or FSP saga II 500W @2.8k.

You can try reinstalling windows, but I don't think 3D mark scores are effected by windows much. The nature of the problem suggests a bad PSU which is affecting the components badly

Compare these:

Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus 500 W:
Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus 500 W Power Supply Review | Hardware Secrets

Corsair VX450W:
Corsair VX450W Power Supply Review | Hardware Secrets

These fluctuations harm the components in the long run.

[Anx02]

Thanks to you both for replying. So this is most likely because of my faulty psu...but can't believe that the brand new RMAd psu would be a faulty one. Anyway...seeing that I'll perhaps have to change the psu anyway...and given the 2 possible ones by 'cool buddy'...I'd like to ask...will a Corsair VX450 or FSP 500w really be sufficient for my pc (because now it has a 8800GTX...which requires two 6 pin connectors)? I can spend upto 5k on a psu if I don't have to upgrade anything else right now...but after changing the psu if I find out that the problem still persists then I'll be in a bit of trouble as then I'll have a tighter budget on upgrading the rest of the components. Please suggest about the psu. Thank you.

@pimpom

I'll keep your suggestion in mind.

[asingh]

Also remember 3d Mark 2006 is extremely CPU dependent. 3d Vantage is a better over all picture.

[Anx02]

I guess so, but surprisingly my CPU score of 3D Mark 06 didn't drop by much (became 2170 from 2280), but the SM2 and SM3 scores decreased by huge (both came down from around 5000 to 3800!), so I suspected the card mostly. But now that I have the card replaced, and the problem still unsolved, should I really change the psu? Or should I change the mobo+procy+ram (wanna switch back to intel again)? I would do both but due to tight budget I can't. That's why it'd be really appreciated if you guys can help me make the right decision.

[pimpom]

Changing the PSU and the rest of your hardware costs money and time. Reinstalling Windows just takes up a bit of your time. Why don't you try that first?

Some people reinstall everything every few weeks. Me, I do it perhaps twice a year on average. When I've installed and configured everything to my liking - OS, service pack, drivers, apps, utilities, etc. - I make a ghost backup. It takes only a few minutes to restore it all from the ghost. Then I do whatever updating is needed. It's much easier than reinstalling them all from the raw installation files.

For example, my current ghost contains the following:
Win XP + SP3
Drivers for mobo, gfx, router-modem, printer and other peripherals
AV (updated just before making the ghost)
File decompression tools
DTP and word processor
Audio and video players and codecs
CAD
Graphics programs
Browser, network monitor, download manager
File recovery
CD/DVD burner
etc etc

My current ghost file is 1.52 GB. The most tedious part is configuring Windows and each program to my preference, but it saves a lot of time later. With that kind of preparation, I can format my C: drive, restore everything from the ghost file and boot up again, all within 10 minutes.

[Cool Buddy]

Changing the PSU might help but the proccy already seems to be affected. That can't be corrected by changing the PSU. You card was replaced means your card had been damaged. In that case, even the proccy might be damaged. So send it for RMA if possible.
AFAIK, Corsair VX450 has only one 6 pin connector. If you've got a 6pin adapter with the card (guru3D mentions there is one bundled), you can use it, or else get one. VX450 is good enough for this card.
But before changing the PSU, you might want to get it checked in some hardware shop so that you could pin point the problem.
In any case, I'd advise not to use any new hardware unless you change that PSU or you might end up damaging that too.

[Anx02]

@pimpom

Have finally reinstalled windows and ran the pc in a different room from a different power outlet (directly) but the problem still persists. So it's either my psu or the mobo/procy.

@Cool Buddy

Even if I RMA the procy...it's gonna take a while before I get the replacement. But I also somehow think that it's majorly the problem of the psu. After a bit of surfing I also could see that the VX450 probably is enough for a single 8800GTX (I do have a molex to 6 pin adapter btw). Although my procy alone is too much power hungry I think (125 watts Windsor)...I hope the system will run on the VX450 without a problem.

But can anybody suggest me any shops in Kolkata where I can get my CM psu tested just to be sure (as 'Cool Buddy' suggested)? And also if I buy a Corsair VX450 (or 550) then which shops should I visit here (AFAIK not a lot of stores keep various kinds of psu)?

[Cool Buddy]

Starcomp mall (it's a shop named mall) has a good number od options, but prices are not very good. You could go there. Apart from VX450, you can also consider Antec Earthwatts 500W, which I think should be available there. VX450 is also available in Vadant. I can't say anything about other shops, haven't visited any recently.
Antec earthwatts 500W and VX450 are very similar PSU, don't go by the wattage. Buy the Antec only if it's cheaper than VX450
Can't say where to get it checked. If it's still under warranty, take it to the service center and ask them why it is developing faults every now and then as you have already got it replaced twice. I feel sorry to say this, it does hurt, but buying the CM extreme is wasting money. It's just a bit better than the generic ones. A company of CM's repute making this kind of thing, at least they could stop this line of PSUs now that online reviews are there stating clearly that it's a bad PSU.

[mukherjee]

If u are looking for corsair psu,have a look at MD Computers.
They have excellent rates.
Last I knew,vx450 was going @3900+4%vat.

[Anx02]

Thanks guys. I'll browse through those stores and hopefully get a new psu tomorrow. Gonna try to buy the VX550 I think...just bcoz I wanna be a little future proof about that thing (seeing that they provide 5 years of warranty). Hopefully the problem will be solved after that...will report back.

@Cool Buddy

Unfortunately I don't have any warranty left on my CM psu...it went down twice in the last 2 years (once each year). I wish I did a little searching before I bought that thing for 3.4k...to be honest just the name of CM made me buy it...

[Anx02]

Alright...today was a really bad day for me I think. Preliminarily I bought the corsair VX550 and was happy with it till I plugged it in and ran the WEI and 3d Mark 06 benchmarks (in the freshly installed windows). But my jaw almost dropped when I saw that the scores didn't differ a bit!!! And the worse part is...I got so angry that I took out the procy (had an intention of cleaning it and the cooler fan and then again try to see if anything improves) and while cleaning I 'destroyed' it (some of the goddamn 'pins' got bent!). Although I still have 3-4 months of warranty left on it but I don't think that I can get it replaced anymore. So I'm officially screwed now and gonna have to upgrade my system anyway.

But my question is...before my system died bcoz of the procy...it clearly showed that the problem's still there...so what's really causing the problem? My procy/mobo?? I don't think it's because of ram (I have 4 ddr2 800mhz modules and previously I've checked each of them separately). I didn't mention one thing before...that 4 months ago I tested my old gfx card (8800gt)+RMAd CM psu in one of my friends' pc (he had AMD 5200+ and a basic mobo with 2gb ddr2 ram) and the 3d mark 06 score was still poor (poorer that it should've been)...and after that I gave my 8800gt for RMA thinking that it's surely my gpu's problem...but maybe it wasn't. And if by any means it's not even a problem of my mobo/procy...then what else?? My hard disk(s)?? I've checked my hdds using 'HDD sentinel' and it stated that the Hitachi (250gb sata) has 100% and the Seagate (320gb sata) has 90% health. But can there really be 'any' chance that this problem's happening because of my hdds?? Because if I upgrade and change my procy/mobo/ram (may be I'll go for core i3) and still see that the problem is still there then I'll perhaps kill myself along with my pc...lol.

And another question...is it possible that my old CM xtreme psu has damamged this 'new' 8800gtx also (maybe which is why the scores are still the same)? But I've plugged it in only twice just to run the benchmarks and after the disappointing results I took it off.

Please throw some light guys...I'm now in xterme darkness.......

[Sam]

^^
please be a bit more clear about the problem. if possible make some points so its easier to answer your queries.

ok, so you got a new PSU & ran your system on it. i not sure why you expect better scores? there maybe improvement of 2-3%. but real benefits will reflect if you try OC your system. or in the long run basically (PSU won't blow up. shouldn't).

also you again ran the same damn benchmark tool. as asigh mentioned earlier, its CPU dependent (did you OC the processor? if no, than forget it. no problem). so what you got looks absolutely perfect to me.

and if graphics card is already damaged, how can a better PSU revert the damage?

[Anx02]

@Sam.Shab

I don't think you've read my first post...otherwise you'd notice that I'm not talking about OCing my cpu or gpu, or getting a better psu just for getting higher scores. I'm talking about raw system performance which I lost since my old CM psu was RMAd. Ok I'll point down the things for you and others who're finding my posts descriptive:

1) Please check my system config that I used to have in the 1st post.
2) My old psu (CM xtrm 600) was replaced twice under two years and after it was replaced the last time (4 months ago) my system's performance drastically went down (as in 3dmark it became 8500 from 10500 and WEI graphics scores went down from 7.0 to 6.5). My system wasn't OCd.
3) I ran the gfx card (8800gt) with my CM xtrm in another guy's pc to find out if it's still giving low scores (so that I could know whether it's my gpu's problem or my procy/mobo's problem) and it did give low scores.
4) Thinking that it's the problem of my gfx card I RMAd it after that and got a 8800GTX in replacement (just 1 week ago)...but the problem wasn't solved (still same scores).
5) The members here suggested me to get rid of the bad CM xtrm psu so I just bought a VX550 today...but it didn't also solve the problem (same low scores).
6) And I'm not only talking about 3d mark06 or WEI...I also tested my system in the benchmarks of Just Cause 2 and in the max gfx settings (except for AA) it's lagging as hell (avg 18 fps) which used to be at least 30 (I don't have crysis loaded right now otherwise I'd check on that).
7) So my question is...what do I have to do now? Change mobo/procy?? Change HDDs (what can be the problem with them)?? Or change my replaced 8800gtx which I plugged in with the CM xtrm psu only twice to get the benchmarks done (i.e. can my replaced card be damaged just because of that)??
8) By the way...my procy is destroyed now so I gotta upgrade anyway. But what exactly should I do??

I hope everything can be understood by everyone now. I know that the problem is a bit confusing but please read and you'll understand.

So please help me out people.

[acewin]

@anx02, yeah can understand things can go bad, loose/faulty connection. I would say you should not rush into decisions like that, you should have better taken to a repair center, and got it tested. Finding a proper shop can be a problem though.

Gfx card being RMAed one, may be the reason, because you said already CPU scores were fine as earlier. PSU giving a problem, you can plug it out and get it tested. a decent repair center would keep PSU tester. and as cool buddy pointed out if PSU has already caused damages which cannot be reversed most of the solutions wont work.

Also, you should note that you are getting them RMAed, the card you got may still not be all good (which you already thought), inference we really cannot test/check everything on our own we need some good repair center.
I would suggest try contacting AMD people once if they can RMA it(trying is not wrong I will say) before you buy a new setup.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Anx02

@Sam.Shab

I don't think you've read my first post...otherwise you'd notice that I'm not talking about OCing my cpu or gpu, or getting a better psu just for getting higher scores. I'm talking about raw system performance which I lost since my old CM psu was RMAd. Ok I'll point down the things for you and others who're finding my posts descriptive:

1) Please check my system config that I used to have in the 1st post.
2) My old psu (CM xtrm 600) was replaced twice under two years and after it was replaced the last time (4 months ago) my system's performance drastically went down (as in 3dmark it became 8500 from 10500 and WEI graphics scores went down from 7.0 to 6.5). My system wasn't OCd.
3) I ran the gfx card (8800gt) with my CM xtrm in another guy's pc to find out if it's still giving low scores (so that I could know whether it's my gpu's problem or my procy/mobo's problem) and it did give low scores.
4) Thinking that it's the problem of my gfx card I RMAd it after that and got a 8800GTX in replacement (just 1 week ago)...but the problem wasn't solved (still same scores).
5) The members here suggested me to get rid of the bad CM xtrm psu so I just bought a VX550 today...but it didn't also solve the problem (same low scores).
6) And I'm not only talking about 3d mark06 or WEI...I also tested my system in the benchmarks of Just Cause 2 and in the max gfx settings (except for AA) it's lagging as hell (avg 18 fps) which used to be at least 30 (I don't have crysis loaded right now otherwise I'd check on that).
7) So my question is...what do I have to do now? Change mobo/procy?? Change HDDs (what can be the problem with them)?? Or change my replaced 8800gtx which I plugged in with the CM xtrm psu only twice to get the benchmarks done (i.e. can my replaced card be damaged just because of that)??
8) By the way...my procy is destroyed now so I gotta upgrade anyway. But what exactly should I do??

I hope everything can be understood by everyone now. I know that the problem is a bit confusing but please read and you'll understand.

So please help me out people.

i did read the post & following this thread but not posted (till now) cause other members doing an excellent task help you solve the problem.

well, why the performance of the card degraded, i not sure. maybe due to overheat. but if overheating performance shouldn't come down (thats not possible). or if the card faulty, the card most probably will stop working or if you run benchmark will give you error or crash the system. so card most probably isn't damaged. maybe problem lies somewhere else.

880GTX is clearly faster than 8800GT. wait !!! your 8800GT performance degraded & so you gave it for RMA & you received a 8800GTX. was that card sealed in a proper packaging, in a box? if no, Rashi have done some serious fiddling with the card (8800GTX). what i can't, say but surely they did something. maybe update the card bios to force the clock run low (to tackle heat problem common to both 8800GTX as well as XFX).

well as your processor part of "Indian History" now, get a replacement. or i'll say try sell your mobo (Nvidia 8200 got some serious lack in features). its AM2+ but still will bottleneck your processor if you get a quad core. so will require DD3 ram (if you change your motherboard). now can you do 1 thing, test your card on someone else's PC. & post the GPU_Z screenshot. both the first tab as well as the sensor tab. than i can say if Rashi did what they are famous for.

@all, can a faulty PCIe X 16 slot make it run at X4 speed? if yes, maybe this is the problem with OP.

[Anx02]

@acewin

Since I already got a new psu...I'll probably try to check the CM one later sometime (I don't really know any good shops here to get such a testing done). And I do hope that just for plugging in the RMAd gfx card twice with the possible faulty CM psu didn't damage that right away. My question is...can a faulty psu really damage the gfx card if I've used it only for 15-20 mins max? If so...then did it damage it the similar way? Why's it having exactly the same scores/performance in the benchmarks?? (I'm talking about the replacement 8800gtx with CM xtrm)

@Sam.Shab

Well let me tell you something about the RMAd gfx card. Actually it was imported by Akshay Enterprise...not Rashi. I don't know if they fiddle with the configs of the cards but my replacement didn't come with a sealed box. I did run GPU-z once while I had that card in my pc (with the CM psu)...but nvidia driver wasn't loaded that time (default wdm one was there)...so in GPU-z it was showing the actual clocks of the xfx 8800gtx (576/1800/1350) in the 'default clocks' section...while the 'current clocks' was empty. I don't know whether I can get it checked in another pc now...maybe I'll have to post the GPU-z screenshot from my pc only after I upgrade it (will do by tuesday I believe). I don't wanna stick with my current config anymore...probably will get a core i3 system...don't know...gotta ask you people again about that for the best bets that are available (cheap mobo supporting i3 and OCing).

But the thing you said at the end...can it really happen? 16x PCI-E slot running the card at 4x?

[Sam]

^^ go with Athlon II X4 & a 785G (or from the AMD chipset section) mobo (either DDR2 or DDR3 depending on whether you willing to change ram). i3 is a good option but considering its price & also that the LGA1156 platform dead (after 2010, Intel will shift to LGA1155. no support for LGA1156) & i3 basically a dual core, keep it as reserve.

about the last statement, its for others to decide. i just felt like that.

[asingh]

^^
Yea a faulty 16 lane slot can operate at 4x. He would need to check GPU-Z while stressing the accelerator. But the fault could also be with the VGA.

[Cool Buddy]

I'd say use tweezers to straighten the pins on the processor and take it to the service center. I have used a processor in the past whose pins had bent and then straightened with tweezers. But be careful not to break them.

As I said earlier, if the parts had already been affected, it could not be reversed by changing the PSU. It wasn't surprising that the scores didn't improve. How could the scores improving by changing the PSU anyways.

I'd still say give the proccy for RMA, get the replaced proccy (if they give one), run the system and see if it is running fine (forget 3D mark or vantage or whatever, just check if it is running fine). Fine here means without crashes, able to run games, not overheating etc. When you have done all this, then only think of an upgrade, don't rush into that.

And now that you have a VX550, you can simply throw away the CM PSU, forget about it.

[Anx02]

Look...it's fine if my current config's parts (cpu/mobo/ram) have been affected by the possible faulty CM psu which I've used for the past 4 months...I don't also see how buying a new psu can revert that change. I didn't use a gfx card in those 4 months...used onboard gfx only. But I got the 8800gtx just a few days ago...and have used it with the faulty CM psu for 15-20 mins only...like I said before. So my question is...

1) Can the 'new' card also be damaged just because of that (running it for 15-20 mins with the faulty psu)?

I did try to use the tweezers to straighten the pins...but it didn't work well because 2 pins were bent across 2 others. However...I'll try once again today with 'cool head'. Actually I've been looking forward to upgrade my system base for a long time...so it won't hurt me to do it now. I can try to sell my system components but my procy is out of that picture now I believe. The only problem is...I wanted to upgrade my mobo-procy-ram...nothing else. But now that I've bought a psu for 5k...my budget has become less. Still I can spend about 12-13k max on those 3 things. And after that I hope to get my system's performance to be better or to improve...as most of my pc components (that matter) will be changed. But after upgrading if I find out that if I'm still getting crappy gameplay performance like now...then there will only be the gfx card left to blame I believe.

2) Can't blame the Hdds for this (reduced performance)...can I?

And then I won't have any way to change my gfx card right now...I'll have to live with that...

3) I understand that the 3dmark06 may be cpu oriented...but why are my SM2.0/3.0 scores always down (and almost exactly the same)? The cpu score is also down...but by 100 only (but the SM2/3 scores are down by 1000...it was with the old card...and also with the replaced card). What can it indicate to?

[Sam]

1. no. it shouldn't. if for config, get this: Athlon II X3 or X4. X3 looks a better choice. motherboard you can go for Biostar TA785G3 HD. this one easily available locally in most places & cost just 4k or maybe 100-200 more. for ram, try squeeze in 4Gb. else settle for 2Gb single stick for now.