The Final Debate....

[hsr]

As you all know, the Nuclear deal of India and america is going to be signed.
Express your views and comments....
My opinion is :
I STRONGLY OPPOSE IT

if you don't know what it is yet, refer the given links...
Vote for it.....

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2006/06/16...1602441300.htm
http://www.usinpac.com/nuclear_deal/index.html

[karnivore]

Voted in favour. It is not something that will bring in immediate benefit to India. In the long run, however, it will be beneficial to India.

Besides, you, being a thread starter, have not clarified why you strongly oppose it.

[The_Devil_Himself]

India need the deal!

There is no choice!

[Abhishek Dwivedi]

am not much into all this crap but dsnt signing the deal makes india dependnt on US??

[karnivore]

Originally Posted by Abhishek Dwivedi

am not much into all this crap but dsnt signing the deal makes india dependnt on US??

Instead of explaining why it won't, let me ask you an even simpler question:

When was independent India, not dependent ?

[utsav]

+1

I will call people opposing this deal the biggest a&& h?%*¤ .do u f*%%& know the state of india? China has 5 times more electricity production capacity than india. We will not improve at higher rate if this nuclear deal is not signed asap this nuclear deal wil hav several long term advantages too so y oppose it ?

[ravi_9793]

voted in favor. Indian need it

[goobimama]

Can someone explain within 50 words what the treaty is all about?

[kumarmohit]

Goobi vote for the last option first! Then ask for explanations!

The fact is that US in NOT the only supplier. Hell, they are even changing their law to make an exception for India. They need us against the Chinese and we need them and their energy as well. Chinese are a common enemy, so why not make the most out of it.

There are a number of other countries in NSG. A number of them would be happy to supply fuel. Take the French and Russians for example. Then there are British who might shout sh!t but at the end of the day shove it in and support Indians. The only people in NSG who are going conky with the bonkers are the Australians, Swiss, Swedish and may be the Norwegians.

We need this deal real bad. We have a really big energy crisis on the horizon and Nuc energy is one of the few feasible options we have.

[Hitboxx]

Edited the poll so as not to show the voted names, as it will deem into violence on the forum.

[cooldudie3]

What, AHEM, is this about?
I really don't understand all those words!

[goobimama]

^^ Looks like all the macboys are dumb when it comes to politics! I just voted for the last option...

[nish_higher]

Originally Posted by utsav

+1

I will call people opposing this deal the biggest a&& h?%*¤ .do u f*%%& know the state of india? China has 5 times more electricity production capacity than india. We will not improve at higher rate if this nuclear deal is not signed asap this nuclear deal wil hav several long term advantages too so y oppose it ?

+1 and i voted in favour.

dont understand whts teh problem if u get electricity..during power cuts all these ppl do is curse the govt.

Originally Posted by goobimama

^^ Looks like all the macboys are dumb when it comes to politics! I just voted for the last option...

oi not all

[iMav]

I think it is highly stupid for any of us to comment on this! The Left does not know all the details. No one does! Australia has already said no to supplying nuclear material to India. For one, the BJP hasn't been opposing it as vocally they do on other issues. The Left has withdrawn support. SP of all parties has pledged support, that too after considering Kalam. The deal has been made into a 'Muslims won't support you if you vote for it'. The whole thing is un-clear. The govt. of India has done the mistake that MS made with Vista. Bad marketing. No one knows squat about it!

[ico]

What I feel about the left parties is that they're indirectly supported by China for creating this dilemma over the deal.....

[IronManForever]

I am against it, I do care energy crisis in south-east asia. But I being more influenced by the Left; am concerned to supporting them. I find their reasons being equally justified. Simply put, I am a Left Fanboy. Now, thats a bold acceptance. Or maybe IronMan just turned green?

[praka123]

I am tempted to support the nuc deal.but at the same time ,concerned about USA gonna make us their puppets

[iNFiNiTE]

We soo need the deal to ensure energy security for the future. We need power to continue our growth as a developing nation.

As for getting dependent on USA, India is already committed for trade, weapons and other tech stuff with US. So why shy away from the deal which will ultimately help the country?

Also its Quid Pro Quo in todays world.

[Abhishek Dwivedi]

alright...now i get the point...may b i was wnrg...now i say WE NEED THIS..

[ico]

Well, this is just a DEAL....How will the US make us their puppets??

Canada, Australia and other countries have already said NO to supply us Uranium, Thorium for our reactors if we don't sign the deal.....And if we don't sign the deal, we won't even get the electricity which we are getting at the moment because we'll have no uranium for our reactors.......which is again a loss......Those left parties can't see our country progressing......Thats what I feel.....

Like the way blind Capitalism sucks, blind Communism sucks too.......

[praka123]

well ,I am a anti-communist from the core JFYI.

But ,IIRC ,I read that North East states got lot of uranium deposits?same way Thorium on west coast of India?

[iNFiNiTE]

Though India found deposits of Uranium in North-East, it would take lot of time to develop those into proper mines, considering that all present protests against the mines from the local tribals are pacified. A little info on that here

And as for the case of Thorium, reactor design challenges and a Cold War-era interest in using nuclear waste byproducts in atomic bombs pushed the industry to use uranium as its primary fuel.

Our country has announced that it would begin testing the safety of a design of its own. But then again this would take lot of time. Thorium usage is good as it produces lesser byproducts. You can read more here

[mayanks_098]

+1 in favour
We need the deal if we want power which is ever important for developing India.
Think,do these bloody politicians know better than hon Mr APJ Abdul Kalaam? (& other scientists)

[praka123]

what if a war broke down and the enemies target our nuclear reactors?

[iNFiNiTE]

^^ hows that reacted to the deal?

BTW we already have nuclear reactors running, dont we?

If the attacking country's intention is to start a nuclear war, it will simply nuke us and not bother attacking the reactors.

[praka123]

^well ,sorry for the offtopic that is

[utsav]

Originally Posted by praka123

I am tempted to support the nuc deal.but at the same time ,concerned about USA gonna make us their puppets

are'nt we puppets right now too if u think the othr way ?¿ 90% + of indian sites r hosted on us servers . What if us govt makes a law that indian sites r not allowed on us servers . Am not joking .just think abt my point. Its just a 1 point.

[Indyan]

Definitely yes.

Originally Posted by Abhishek Dwivedi

am not much into all this crap but dsnt signing the deal makes india dependnt on US??

No.
The major worry is that the US may force India to change its stance regarding the Iran issue. But, that wont happen. Why?
Politics. The muslim vote bank is cruicial to every party. If the indian gov goes against Iran and toys the US line of thought then the ruling part is sure to loose a significant chunk of the muslim vote bank and no party is so dumb.

Next up, the deal statement doesnt include anything specific regarding foreign policy that would allow US to force India's hand.

[afonofa]

Originally Posted by karnivore

It is not something that will bring in immediate benefit to India. In the long run, however, it will be beneficial to India.

I think it will be more beneficial in the very near future for obtaining uranium for our current reactors and fast tracking our knowledge about the tech required to fully utilize it. Hopefully in the next 20-30 years we can expect our Fast Breeder Reactor tech to be fully operational and we can then rely on our thorium deposits for our power needs. (India has atleast 30% of the world's known thorium deposits)

Originally Posted by iMav

I think it is highly stupid for any of us to comment on this! The Left does not know all the details...For one, the BJP hasn't been opposing it as vocally they do on other issues.

I don't think it's stupid to comment on the N-deal. If I don't know about something, then I want to talk about it, share opinions and in the process maybe learn something. Lack of details isn't going to stop me from sharing my views but a lack of sharing my views is definitely going to stop me from learning.

The BJP maybe sees a chance of coming to power in the next election and maybe they want to keep a window open, if they bad mouth the deal too much now they won't be able to explain why they went ahead with the deal and show off that they did the right thing for the country...who knows!

Originally Posted by gagandeep

What I feel about the left parties is that they're indirectly supported by China for creating this dilemma over the deal.....

Even if China isn't supporting the Left parties, the Left are anyway doing everything the Chinese would have wanted them to. The Left's idealogy is different from the Congress, but aren't they still Indian What I don't understand is what can the Left possibly hope to gain by trying to make sure China stays a step ahead of India, which is what will be if we don't sign this deal. If they are so pro-China, they should just go live there!

Originally Posted by praka123

I am tempted to support the nuc deal.but at the same time ,concerned about USA gonna make us their puppets

India must stand up to the world.
Because I believe that unless India stands up to the world, no one will repect us.
Only Strength respects strength.
We must be strong not only as a military power but also as an economic power.
Both must go hand-in-hand.

Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam

Nobody is going to make a puppet out of us unless we let them. There's not going to be any military strength without money and how can we expect to be an economic (super?)power when the government asks industries to remain shut to conserve electricity to avoid powercuts?!

Originally Posted by mayanks_098

We need the deal if we want power which is ever important for developing India.
Think,do these bloody politicians know better than hon Mr APJ Abdul Kalaam? (& other scientists)

Agreed. It's also not just power generation which will get a boost by this N-deal. There are other sectors where India's progress has been lagging directly/indirectly because of our nuclear isolation from the rest of the world. Supercomputing is one such sector. The tech in this sector is dual-use(civil and military). It can be used to further India's nuclear weapons programme and hence(thanks to the USA) we are isolated from the rest of the world in this respect. After the N-deal a lot of the dual-use tech that India finds tough to acquire or develop will be much more easily available.

The N-deal is off if later on India conducts a nuclear test(Pokhran style KABOOM!!) but with supercomputers and the data from the Pokhran tests, we may never need to conduct further nuclear tests to refine our nukes(nuclear explosion simulation). Yea they are going to put in place safeguards to make sure that India doesn't use dual-use tech to further its nuclear weapons programme but they also had all their spy satellites and they had absolutely no clue that India was going to conduct a nuclear test when we did. They even believe that AQ Khan was running his nuclear proliferation network without the Musharraf govt. knowing about it. So it will be difficult but not impossible to further our nuclear weapons programme after the deal.

With respect to supercomputers or other cutting edge technology, even without anybody's help, we will eventually catch up with the rest of the world, but in today's world, who has the time to wait for that eventuality? Not India and certainly not her people. I don't want to be a 100 years old before I see my country at par with the rest of the world.

On a side note, permanent membership of the UN Security Council was offered to India first and when we(Pandit Nehru) declined, it went to China. The 5 permanent members have the right to veto major decisions of the UN. Now China has the power(and exercised it) to veto India's inclusion as UNSC permanent member. In the past China has already been offered a similar nuclear deal and accepted it. Should India make the same mistake again?

Originally Posted by praka123

what if a war broke down and the enemies target our nuclear reactors?

After the deal, once we can acquire nuclear fuel for our reactors from abroad, we can use our own uranium resources to boost our nuclear weapons arsenal(I support a minimum credible nuclear deterrent). Nobody in their right mind is going to go to war with a country possesing nukes and then take out that country's nuclear reactors.

What if greenhouse gases released by our bikes and cows(methane) cause global warming and melt the polar icecaps?...Let's trade in our bikes for horses and stick a cork in those cows!

What if women play hard to get?...Let's switch to the other option and stop trying to mate!

What if someone hijacks a plane and flies it into a skyscraper?!...Let's stop reaching for the sky and go live in underground caves

If you read through all of that then you know what voted for in the poll

[The_Devil_Himself]

^^nice post.Exactly the point that need to be understood--Nuclear weapons development is futile anyways,just a show off while nuclear power is the need of the hour.A Nuke war will still end up with all or most of us killed even if we have what we have currently or some more advanced weapons,I hope you guys get my point,WW3 is the end of homo sapiens if it ever happens.

We still depend on coal for a major chunk of our electricity produced,while some countries like France uses nuclear reactors for as much as 80% of their total power needs iirc.Nuclear reactors are far more compact,powerful,cleaner,and cheaper after initial set-up costs.And oh yes far more reliable unlike the same old process of boiling water,:S.

on a side note:UN is nothing but a defunct piece of sh!t after the Iraq war and nobody gives a **** about it anymore,it has lost its credibility completely.