Man hypnotises himself before op

[shadow2get]

Source

A hypnotist from West Sussex has undergone surgery on his right hand without a general anaesthetic.

Alex Lenkei, 61, from Worthing, chose to sedate himself by hypnosis before undergoing the 83-minute operation. He said he was fully aware of
everything going on around him during the procedure but was free from pain.





The operation at Worthing Hospital involved removing some bone in the base of the thumb and fusing some joints in an attempt to improve his arthritis.

Consultant orthopaedic surgeon David Llewellyn-Clark said he was happy in agreeing to the unusual sedation on Mr Lenkei, a registered hypnotist who has been practising since the age of 16.

Mr Lenkei said Wednesday's surgery "went amazingly well".
"It took between 30 seconds to a minute for me to place myself under hypnosis, and from that point I felt a very deep relaxation.

"I was aware of everything around me, from people talking and at one stage a hammer and chisel was used as well as a surgical saw, but I felt no pain."
Throughout the operation, an anaesthetist was on standby to administer an anaesthetic if necessary.

Mr Llewellyn-Clark said he had been confident that Mr Lenkei was a skilled hypnotist and was "delighted all went well".

[motobuntu]

Originally Posted by shadow2get

Source

Amazing!!!

[Faun]

cool

[legolas]

woww...finally i can start to believe in hypnosis!!

[mediator]

^I thought u were a hardcore pro-modern science supporter. Believe it or not !!

[DigitalDude]

@legolas

you should watch Derren Brown (Mind Control Fame) videos
very thrilling and entertaining


_

[legolas]

Originally Posted by mediator

^I thought u were a hardcore pro-modern science supporter. Believe it or not !!

That is the problem!! You prejudge and start giving lectures and links and then blame for not reading...(when its least involved with my views or topic AFAIK)
I believe what I said was startto believe.
@DigitalDude, thk you. Will check'em out.

[mediator]

I'm neither judging anything nor giving any lectures. But, everything starts with that "start" thing u mentioned. Yes u may "start to believe" it or ignore it. Thats y I said "Believe it or not" linking to a site.

[legolas]

^^ I hope you know that too! (everything starts with that "start").

[chesss]

Hypnosis works, it is a fact known for decades!

[pushkaraj]

Marvellous!!! Thanx for the info

[The Conqueror]

Amazing

[prasad_den]

We had a patient in our hospital who did not accept local anesthetics for undergoing tooth extractions..! Probably he had hypnotised himself, but he was never in pain.

[The Unknown]

8)

I never previously believed in hypnosis !

[Xccentricity]

Have any of u guys watched criss angel, david blaine or mondo magic?

How the heck do they pull of such stuff!?

[DigitalDude]

Originally Posted by ~Rahul~

Have any of u guys watched criss angel, david blaine or mondo magic?

How the heck do they pull of such stuff!?

I have watched a lot (almost all) of David Blaine's magic tricks and also 'David Blaine's Magic Revealed' esp the levitating one that he would be doing in the videos, if you come to know how he actually does that.. you would just bang your head on the wall hehehe

search for 'david blaine's magic revealed' you would come to know how they pull up those tricks

_

[utsav]

david blaine rocks

[phreak0ut]

Originally Posted by DigitalDude

I have watched a lot (almost all) of David Blaine's magic tricks and also 'David Blaine's Magic Revealed' esp the levitating one that he would be doing in the videos, if you come to know how he actually does that.. you would just bang your head on the wall hehehe

search for 'david blaine's magic revealed' you would come to know how they pull up those tricks

_

Don't take the fun quotient away Even though I have the file, I'm very hesitant to go through the techniques. I won't enjoy his performances anymore. So, some things are best left unknown

[DigitalDude]

^^
hehe.. more than the fun quotient the curiousness factor kills me so I can't help it but find out what the fk he does to do the trick

but not all of his tricks are revealed so still some mystery remains

_

[entrana]

wi shud do this too seems uber

[hullap]

well actually that person didnt want to spend even a penny on anesthetics

[karnivore]

There is more to than meets the eye. This is something that should be taken with a little pinch of salt. Dr. Steven Novella, has already explored the case. Below is the extract from his blog

..........
What should an open-minded skeptic make of such a tale?
.........
Hypothesis #1 - The story is true as reported.
.......
If we assume that the news reports, however, were accurate in saying the Mr. Lenkei has no anesthesia at all - not local or general - is it feasible that he could feel no pain from such a procedure through self-hypnosis alone? I don’t think so........

Also of note the news stories report that Mr. Lenkei put himself into a hypnotic “trance” and yet during the procedure he was chatting with the surgeon - asking him how the procedure was going. He was also aware of conversations in the room and various sensations of the surgery - like pulling, and noted that his arm was in an uncomfortable position and he felt like he wanted to move it. This does not sound like much of a trance.

Hypothesis #2 - Local Anesthesia
...............
I find this hypothesis to be far and away the most plausible and likely.

Hypothesis #3 - His hand was already numb
............
It is possible that he also had nerve damage in his hand. Perhaps he has severe carpal tunnel syndrome and ulnar neuropathy -meaning that two of the main nerves that supply sensation to the hand are damaged. Therefore he may not have needed anesthesia because his hand was already profoundly numb.............

Hypothesis #4 - Mr. Lenkei cheated.

Mr. Lenkei is a practicing hypnotist, and he may have seen his surgery as an opportunity to demonstrate the power of his craft and garner some free press............

Hypothesis #5 - Multi-factorial

Finally, we may be dealing with a combination of factors. Perhaps Mr. Lenkei naturally has a very high pain threshold, and he has some nerve damage in that hand and therefore has reduced sensation. He may also have taken some pain medications prior to the surgery, or perhaps had some local anesthesia that is not being reported.

Conclusion

To be clear - I am not accusing Mr. Lenkei or his surgeons of anything. I am simply laying out various hypotheses given the information available on this story. I would love to have the opportunity to test these hypotheses, by questioning Mr. Lenkei and/or his surgeon. The question of local anesthesia should be the easiest to resolve.

If only the mainstream media utilized more dedicated science journalists - and in a health-related case ones with medical training. A skeptical and knowledgeable journalist should have asked the penetrating questions to ascertain whether or not this story is actually true. Instead the public was treated to a superficial and sensationalized account that is likely highly misleading.

[mediator]

Originally Posted by karnivore

There is more to than meets the eye. This is something that should be taken with a little pinch of salt. Dr. Steven Novella, has already explored the case. Below is the extract from his blog

Already explored the case? Guess we shud take ur posts in the forums with "a little pinch of salt."


Besides, if u are linking something then u shud post the complete stuff or the relevant excerpts too. Don't u think so?

Originally Posted by Steven Novella

I have e-mailed the hospital and I am trying to get contact information for Dr. Llewellyn-Clark so that I can fill in the missing details. If I do I will add an addendum to the post with the new information. Meanwhile, here are several possible hypotheses to explain this story.
..
.
.
It is true that pain is a subjective experience and is highly modified by our mood and attention. If we focus on the pain, even a minor pain can become very bothersome. Likewise, if we are distracted from our pain it can diminish significantly. Fear and anxiety will also tend to exacerbate the perception of pain. So it is plausible that using meditation to focus one’s attention elsewhere and keep oneself calm and free from fear and anxiety will significantly reduce the perception of pain. This can also reduce the need for sedation and pain killing surrounding a surgical procedure.

Neways since u like to quote wiki for reports and definitions, u can read this or may be this one.

So let the doc clear out what he wants. Keep ur mind at rest for the time being before uttering "he has already explored the case"! I hope u do understand in all ur conscious and unconscious state of mind what "hypothesis" is.

BTW, were u trying to ridicule hypnotism in general or just this case?

[karnivore]

And so it begins.......

Guess we shud take ur posts in the forums with "a little pinch of salt."

Be my guest. But i would like to know, why the term "already explored" irked you. Wait a min...no i don't.

..if u are linking something then u shud post the complete stuff or the relevant excerpts too. Don't u think so?

Because i am linking something, it makes more sense to not copy/paste the "complete stuff". I guess everybody can point and click on a link. And "relevant" is a subjective word. What is relevant to you, may not be the same to me.

Neways....u like to quote wiki for reports and definitions...

No i don't. The only way Dr Novella could be introduced was by referring to the wiki. And, the pdf, that you linked was actually provided by one of those who replied, by one who claims to be a hypno-anesthetist and who is not a doctor. Should have shown some courtesy to mention that. Also, the document is an internal finding of Mayo Clinic. It has never been published in any peer reviewed science/ neuroscience journal. The findings are fantastic, but not yet vetted by the peers. So....

I hope u do understand in all ur conscious and unconscious state of mind what "hypothesis" is.

And i hope, "in all ur conscious and unconscious state of mind" you know everything starts with a hypothesis. At least, science starts that way. It seems, you are clear about how things start on your side, but a little fuzzy about the other side. Anyway.......

BTW, were u trying to ridicule hypnotism in general or just this case?

What exactly is hypnosis "in general". I am not aware it. But, yes "spiritual" hypnosis is a great source of amusement for me. "Hypnosis" is something of a misnomer, when used in medical sense. It is use to denote "power of suggestion" i.e. the willingness of a person to accept, believe, do and feel, what she is told to and it is highly dependent on the susceptibility of that person, to suggestions. It has nothing "spiritual" in it. It is important to make this distinction, otherwise we might just get lost in interpretation.

[mediator]

Originally Posted by karnivore

Be my guest. But i would like to know, why the term "already explored" irked you. Wait a min...no i don't.

Well if u don't, then please don't troll around. A case is known to be "already explored" when necessary facts, detailed study and complete interaction is done with the subject...i.e "EXPLORED". I thought u were mature enough to have understood this.

Originally Posted by karnivore

Because i am linking something, it makes more sense to not copy/paste the "complete stuff". I guess everybody can point and click on a link. And "relevant" is a subjective word. What is relevant to you, may not be the same to me.

Guess u shud join media then, which recently entitled "Doctor ya fir Jallaad" for a simple case where X-RAYS showed a needle inside the stomach of a patient where in reality, in actual case, the needles were kept "besides" the patient. Thus, just frivolously insulting the doctor for a cheap news/masala and not giving the "complete" stuff. Well, I agree hypothesis seems more important to you then the ground reality of what remains to be seen and what is actual.

Originally Posted by karnivore

And i hope, "in all ur conscious and unconscious state of mind" you know everything starts with a hypothesis. At least, science starts that way. It seems, you are clear about how things start on your side, but a little fuzzy about the other side. Anyway.......

U seem to be fuzzy on the whole news it seems.

Originally Posted by karnivore

What exactly is hypnosis "in general". I am not aware it. But, yes "spiritual" hypnosis is a great source of amusement for me. "Hypnosis" is something of a misnomer, when used in medical sense. It is use to denote "power of suggestion" i.e. the willingness of a person to accept, believe, do and feel, what she is told to and it is highly dependent on the susceptibility of that person, to suggestions. It has nothing "spiritual" in it. It is important to make this distinction, otherwise we might just get lost in interpretation.

If u r not "aware" of what hypnosis is "in general", then why even ponce around? Since, u r not aware of it, then u must read this also and may be this too.

And finally...

Originally Posted by karnivore

And, the pdf, that you linked was actually provided by one of those who replied, by one who claims to be a hypno-anesthetist and who is not a doctor.

Yes, it wud have saved me from linking it, if u have read the replies and understood what Dr. Steven is doing. So, it doesn't matter if the chap, who gave the link, is a doctor or not. More important is what is inside the link. So Read it. By now u must have understood that scientists are still discussing about hypnotism. So take a rest and add "hypnotism" also to ur list of fake "amusements".

Besides, u don't know what hypnotism is, u don't understand what spirituality is.....wht r u doing here? 'Amusing' me?

Again an excerpt from the blog.

Originally Posted by Steven

If the story is accurate and correct as reported, then Mr. Lenkei had no anesthesia and his only form of pain control was his self-hypnosis. I find this to be highly implausible. As a matter of definition - we must first distinguish stage-hypnotism from the kind used by Mr. Lenkei, which is probably better described as deep meditation.

Read, just for ur "awareness".

Originally Posted by karnivore

It is important to make this distinction, otherwise we might just get lost in interpretation.

Understand what u said or may be copied from somewhere, as it will help u.

[phreak0ut]

Why don't we request the mod to rename all the sections to "Fight Club" on this forum?

[Faun]

^^lol

[karnivore]

I thought, taking up an issue in search for answers is in itself an "exploration". I, at the time of hitting reply button, forgot we have a contortionist amongst us. Mea Culpa.

As with the media report, i don't even see a parallel. My quote can be verified, cause i have provided a link to the original, while a media report can't be verified by an ordinary person, because there is no means to do so. Buddy, you got to work more on your analogies.

Let me say this again. I still don't know what hypnosis is "in general". I know of stage/ spiritual (sic)/ clinical ones. The first two links actually talk of clinical one. Not stage, not spiritual. Like some kids who are unnecessarily elated by the mention of the word "candy", some of us get equally elated and start thumping our chests, by the mention of "spirituality", "hypnosis" or "meditation". That, these words may have different connotations as well, is something beyond their grasp.

Yes the pdf is interesting. But only if you had read my post completely you would have known my opinion on the findings.

As with amusing you....NAAAAH, you are not that important and i have better things to do. But, if you are still getting amused, well, good for you.

Regarding spirituality, Daniel Denett had this to say in his BREAKING THE SPELL.

....let me try to put better words in their mouths. What these people have realized is one of the best secrets of life: let your self go. If you can approach the world's complexities, both its glories and its horrors, with an attitude of humble curiosity, acknowledging that however deeply you have seen, you have only just scratched the surface, you will find worlds within worlds, beauties you could not heretofore imagine, and your own mundane preoccupations will shrink to proper size, not all that important in the greater scheme of things. Keeping that awestruck vision of the world ready to hand while dealing with the demands of daily living is no easy exercise, but it is definitely worth the effort, for if you can stay centered, and engaged, you will find the hard choices easier, the right words will come to you when you need them, and you will indeed be a better person. That, I propose, is the secret to spirituality, and it has nothing at all to do with believing in an immortal soul, or in anything supernatural.

[mediator]

I thought, taking up an issue in search for answers is in itself an "exploration". I, at the time of hitting reply button, forgot we have a contortionist amongst us. Mea Culpa.

I agree. I wonder why people make expert comments which do not conform to facts and reality. What a philosophy.

Neways yes its an 'exploration".... an ongoing one (which needs more time before jumping to conclusion) rather than an "already had" one.

As with the media report, i don't even see a parallel. My quote can be verified, cause i have provided a link to the original, while a media report can't be verified by an ordinary person, because there is no means to do so. Buddy, you got to work more on your analogies.

And I don't understand, why those self-proclaimed experts joke that much. "Verified"? .
FYI, doctors themselves cleared out the news given by the misleading media. U shud understand that no reputed or high self-esteemed doctor wants to be a subject of mindless and misleading discussion.

Let me say this again. I still don't know what hypnosis is "in general". I know of stage/ spiritual (sic)/ clinical ones. The first two links actually talk of clinical one. Not stage, not spiritual. Like some kids who are unnecessarily elated by the mention of the word "candy", some of us get equally elated and start thumping our chests, by the mention of "spirituality", "hypnosis" or "meditation". That, these words may have different connotations as well, is something beyond their grasp.

Yes the pdf is interesting. But only if you had read my post completely you would have known my opinion on the findings.

As with amusing you....NAAAAH, you are not that important and i have better things to do. But, if you are still getting amused, well, good for you.

Regarding spirituality, Daniel Denett had this to say in his BREAKING THE SPELL.

Ur opinion is nuthing but a misleading joke. BTW, I don't understand what makes u base ur opinions on that of others......loss of independent outlook? Oh wait, I will follow those who are known to be scientific as the only thing I have done is......."follow".

So thats what I asked u before and thats what I ask u now. Let the facts prevail. Until then please don't troll with statements like "this case has already been explored" and few childish philosphies...

P.S : Lets not make it into a FIGHT CLUB or else, the mods can move it into that prestigious section.

[karnivore]

..(which needs more time before jumping to conclusion) rather than an "already had" one.

Who is denying that. And who is saying that the conclusion is final. Thats why Dr. Novella called those, "hypothesis" and provided 5 (not 1) of those. I mentioned "already explored", because, he has already looked into the matter "on the basis of the news article". Is English such a difficult language for one to understand ?

And I don't understand, why those self-proclaimed experts joke that much. "Verified"?

Sorry. You have dipped your statement, so much into the sarcastic jelly, it has ended up being inscrutable. But it seems you can't make a distinction between something that can be verified for authenticity and something which can't be so done.

However, couldn't help but notice an irony. You can see through the shenanigans of media making false claim about the needle inside a patient, you can understand their attempt to sensationalize something mundane or false but, at the same time, fail to see the attempt of the same media to sensationalize "hypno-anesthesia". Is it because, hypnotism "in general" is one of your sacred pets.

Ur opinion is nuthing but a misleading joke

The "joke" part i understand. That is your opinion and you are entitled to make plenty of it. But, the "misleading" part i don't. Which part of my which opinion is misleading ?

BTW, I don't understand what makes u base ur opinions on that of others......loss of independent outlook? Oh wait, I will follow those who are known to be scientific as the only thing I have done is......."follow".

Let me make a wild guess. No, 2 guesses. OK.

Guess #1: Immediately when you were conceived you acquired, by some magical, or "spiritual" means, all the knowledge of the world. History, geography, physics, chemistry, maths, spirituality, hypnosis, meditation, neuroscience and everything else were hardwired into your brain. So when you were born you did not have to go to school, college, University and did not have to turn any page of any book and became an automatic leader.

Guess #2: Immediately when you were born, you went out on voyage of quest and in the process acquired first hand knowledge of the world. History, geography, physics, chemistry, maths, spirituality, hypnosis, meditation, neuroscience and everything else were discovered/ invented/ experienced by you. So when you returned back you did not have go to school, college, University and did not have to turn any page of any book and became an automatic leader.

Now, you tell me which of my guesses is correct. I am more inclined to go with #2.

HAIL MY LEADER.
(Hmmm...in all your post you give one or more links to some sites, that you feel will substantiate your point of view. I guess, thats NOT basing one's "opinions on that of others" and IS a perfect example of "independent outlook".)

Let the facts prevail..... few childish philosphies...

Thats what i say too. Let the facts prevail. Not the tailor made, cut to convenience, fact. And all philosophies appear childish, if one is a child. Thanks of acknowledging that eventually.