Windows is !easy, Linux is !hard

[Cyrus_the_virus]

This is a rant. If you are easily offended then don't read this. I repeat. Don't read this. I am going to be ranting about how fan boyz and girlz go on and on and on about how easy it is to install programs in windows and how hard it is to install programs in Linux.

Many times it is their biggest argument about the superiority of windows. Programs are easy to install. You don't have to CMMI (Configure,Make,Make Install), you don't have to use the command line. All you have to do is click next and the program is installed.

Bull! I just recently installed MSDE and its associated web data admin on a freshly installed, fully updated windows XP. It was a pain. Not because it was hard. Anyone with half of a brain could install it. It was a lot of wasted time and effort for such a simple task. To install these two programs I had to follow the following steps. Note: These are Microsoft programs written by Microsoft and supplied by MS's web site.

• Find the programs on the web site.
• Download them.
• Run MSDE to find that it just unpacked itself to a directory.
• Go to that directory and run setup.
• Find out that I had to supply a command line switch.
• Go to the command line and run the setup again with the command line switch.
• #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click
• Reboot the computer.
• Run the setup for web data admin.
• Get a message that it needs .net 1.1
• #$%&!@ and #$%&!@ about dependency hell
• Download .net 1 after finding it because the automatic link takes you to .net 2
• #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click
• Run the setup for web data admin.
• #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click, #$%&!@ click

After all of that effort I was rewarded with being able to run the programs. All this time I was thinking (and #$%&!@) about this article and how it is so much easier and faster in Lİnux. Just for kicks I went through the equivalent procedure in Kubuntu.

• Start up Adept Manager.
• Put the term "postgre" in the search box and wait a couple of seconds for all postgresql programs to list.
• Choose install for postgresql as the closest thing to MS's MSDE.
• Choose install for postgresql-client just because I felt like it.
• Choose install for phppgadmin as the closest thing to MS'S web data admin.
• Click on Apply Changes
• Start making a cup of coffee while everything is downloaded and installed.
• Close Adept Manager after everything was installed.
• Finish making my cup of coffee and drink it while playing with the database.

This was a far simpler process than under windows. There was much less effort and I didn't have to go searching around the web because the #$%&!@ windows program wanted some dependency installed. The Adept Manager and indeed the package managers of many distributions automatically finds and downloads all dependencies of whatever program you choose. It is a simple, repeat, simple matter of choosing the programs you wish and saying install. No next, next, next, search, reboot, next, next, next mindless activities. The programs just install and I can go on with my business.

So all of you winedoz fanboyz that say it is simpler to install programs under windows I say to you Ffffftt!

Now if you have read this and are offended then all I can say is that I warned you. If you think I am blowing it out of my #$%&!@ then try it yourself before commenting. As I mentioned to someone earlier today. Things only seem complicated if you don't know what you are doing.

Thus ends my rant. Have a nice day

Source: Written by System Admin Locutus

[MetalheadGautham]

and let me add something:

linux's installer system is much more advanced, for example .deb packages. they ideally(read: in all good software) include full information about files, where they go, etc. Its also very secure, as compared to M$ idea of using exes, executables, for the install, which can easily be exploited. They also lack a database of software unlike ubuntu which provides almost all software you need in the add/remove tab under programs.

[drgrudge]

I find Windows a lot easier than Linux.

I've never used Linux but I did try. I'm a *nix nOOb. Yeah. But I'm not a MS MVP either.

I was ridiculed when I exclaimed: "So geeky! Anyway thanks for pointing it out. I'll refer that later on". The reply: "And will you stop saying 'geeky' to well explained step-by-step procedures? You just say it cause you haven't explored the interfaces as much as you have for Windows."

What was geeky for me? This post. I was wondering this long how you people manage things in Linux.


I'm not going to say that I'm correct. I might be wrong. Linux might be easy. But for me Linux is geeky.


P.S: Installing things in OS X is a lot easier but that'll beg a different rant.

[The_Devil_Himself]

^^yea get what gets the job done for you.

But for the peeps who are always hungry for knowledge and who want complete control over their life() and who are not afraid to look for alternatives and don't believe in monopolies and who don't cry mommy mommy if one of their software refuses to install and who wants to stand out in a crowd and who are eventually the leaders of this world,Linux is a Must.

[prasad_den]

To me, Windows is much easier than linux. I'm also a total noob in linux, and I have tried 4 different flavours (mandrake, FC4, ubuntu and mint). Everytime I made myself believe that I can soon get used to the linux environment and commands, but each time i failed miserably. I might be a slow learner, but the fact remains that a newbie will feel lost in all the "complexities" of linux..

[iMav]

Originally Posted by The_Devil_Himself

who wants to stand out in a crowd and who are eventually the leaders of this world,Linux is a Must.

i didnt know george bush used linux ... damn imagin what wudv happened to iraq if he usesd linux he wudv blown half the world out of linux frustration

[MetalheadGautham]

Originally Posted by drgrudge

I find Windows a lot easier than Linux.

I've never used Linux but I did try. I'm a *nix nOOb. Yeah. But I'm not a MS MVP either.

I was ridiculed when I exclaimed: "So geeky! Anyway thanks for pointing it out. I'll refer that later on". The reply: "And will you stop saying 'geeky' to well explained step-by-step procedures? You just say it cause you haven't explored the interfaces as much as you have for Windows."

What was geeky for me? This post. I was wondering this long how you people manage things in Linux.


I'm not going to say that I'm correct. I might be wrong. Linux might be easy. But for me Linux is geeky.


P.S: Installing things in OS X is a lot easier but that'll beg a different rant.

sorry drgrudge, but its the command line way for the task. You can still use the graphical way, but people don't usually suggest it because graphical tools may vary, as people like customising linux distros a lot.

You can mount isos as drives via the Command Prompt, you know? but you still use daemon-tools. why? because you(and others) find the windows commandline very complicated. Linux command line is simple. You need to be only slightly geeky for linux commandline, whereas in windows you need to be an abusive geek to try working via Command Prompt.

It is due to that reason that commands are suggested. they often work for all systems, regardless of distros. They are also only slightly hard, nothing a 12 year old can't learn in 6 hours max.

that confused feeling in people is due to the lack of knowledge about how command line in linux works and what are the defaults and meanings of standard command line procedure listing. It will take you only a day or two even with 80 IQ to understand that logic.

In Simple Words:

please don't give examples of linux commandline and say that its more complicated than windows GUI. compare linux GUI to windows GUI then comment.

have a nice day

[Cyrus_the_virus]

Originally Posted by iMav

i didnt know george bush used linux ... damn imagin what wudv happened to iraq if he usesd linux he wudv blown half the world out of linux frustration

Don't prove to us that your head is filled with bananas @iMav, if you got something useful to say, plz do. If you don't understand what people here are talking about, better ask someone..

[drgrudge]

Originally Posted by The_Devil_Himself

^^yea get what gets the job done for you.

We aren't in that territory as yet. Are we discussing how bad Linux is? Or Are we comparing OSes now?


I sincerely wanted to install Linux in my PC. But I'm afraid to do so now.

[iMav]

at 1 end u say this is rant and then u tell me to talk sense ... man go have some bananas

[The_Devil_Himself]

Originally Posted by iMav

i didnt know george bush used linux ... damn imagin what wudv happened to iraq if he usesd linux he wudv blown half the world out of linux frustration

rofl nice to know you idol(who you see as a leader).haha.He is the luckiest *(^*%&$* I have ever seen in my short life.Got an IQ of 92 heh.Clinton got an IQ of 192(or 182,I forgot).

And yes he has actually blown half of the world for god knows what.

@grudgy:i know you gave it an honest try.I suggest you to try ubuntu once on your Mac.I still feel Linux needs some polishing specially in packaging department.And I am not comparing Oses,I know the differences.


Damn,I make so many mistakes while typing

[MetalheadGautham]

@drgrudge: I was just like you 6 months back, but now I feel it was the best desicion I ever made. Go with Ubuntu. First simple looks, explore around. then install softwares via add/remove. then synaptic. then some administration via the administration tab. then use deb packages. then install themes, customizations. Then learn to use Configure, Make, Make Install(gives the most perfect install). Then commandlines. You won't go wrong, trust me.

[iMav]

Originally Posted by The_Devil_Himself

@grudgy:i know you gave it an honest try.I suggest you to try ubuntu once on your Mac.I still feel Linux needs some polishing specially in packaging department.And I am not comparing Oses,I know the differences.

grudgy better commit suicide before doing that

[drgrudge]

MetalheadGautham -
Thanks for explaining. But how I'm supposed to 'learn' them?

Does *ALL* Linux Distros support out of the box net connectivity? Then why is the thread there? What if I dunno how to connect to Internet and need these command line things?

But you do have a point when you say not to compare linux commandline and say that its more complicated than windows GUI. But I never compared Linux with Windows. All I said was Linux is geeky. Atleast it looks geeky.

What do people expect after installing OS? It should work right away. What's the point if a .mp3 file is not playing? It's not Ubuntu's fault that it's not playing but how are the commom people supposed to know?

[MetalheadGautham]

Originally Posted by iMav

grudgy better commit suicide before doing that

don't try to stereotype images of linux in his mind just because you were a miserable failure. Sorry for the rudeness, but I think you have gone too far, farther than praka123 goes about linux, in your going about windows.

[Faun]

try writing one program to find a line containing a word in a file and then copy it to another file as output in windows

Then come to linux and do it in one line command

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

don't try to stereotype images of linux in his mind just because you were a miserable failure. Sorry for the rudeness, but I think you have gone too far, farther than praka123 goes about linux, in your going about windows.

he was not a miserable failue at linux , he is just a nazi-fanatism victim of MS

[drgrudge]

Originally Posted by The_Devil_Himself

@grudgy:i know you gave it an honest try.I suggest you to try ubuntu once on your Mac.I still feel Linux needs some polishing specially in packaging department.And I am not comparing Oses,I know the differences.

Don't tempt me to install Ubuntu in Mac. Can I try with the live CD?

I might give another shot at Ubuntu (Xbuntu to be precise) with my PC. Watch out for my thread at OSS section.

MetalheadGautham -
Thanks for the encouragement. I might uninstall XP on my PC and see what I can do.


iMav -
Please get the <beep> out of here if you have nothing to say. Or nothing to troll atleast. Wanna get miserabled for a fortnight?

[praka123]

edit:formatted my post
@grudge:you have to have some patience with Linux,take ur time to be comfy with the Linux GUI Desktop env Gnome or kde and the differences(again OS X is fully gui).will take some time i suppose u have to learn to not expect similarities!

and Linux is easy and terminal is easy,even it got auto completion and in debian distros bash_completion completes most commands by pressing TAB key.i cant find how it is geeky.although i know that command.com is really geeky stuff!

Linux is NOT Windows and Neither OS X.Linux is a community product made and progressed by community and U cant complain about FOSS community for may be some tinkering which will be needed with few h/w.

I know it is tough bcoz with mac OS X and Windows series Operating Systems which are closed source and pressurized u to accept its EULA.

try reading the EULA what is written and what i want to say is OS X and windows users are buying a service and demands everything to be fixed by the companies(ofcorz M$ doesnot fix any of its bugs asap!).yes,it is ur right to ask a company which sold a good to u under warranty to give solutions to ur problem

While Linux problems are explained and fixed by community members who are developers.I hope,if u get some spare time read below article very informative for windows users
Linux is NOT Windows:
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

[iMav]

i thought this was a rant thread and so i was havingsome fun but now that u guys wanna talk some sense so lets talk sense:

Installing something in windows:

1. get the file - normally a exe
2. double click
3. follow the wizard which has normal steps like wheredo u want to install it to; what name u want and what serial no. and thats it
4. some applications might need u to restart (though i find no big deal in a simple restart)

Installing something in linux:

1. if ur using ubuntuget a .deb file which is not available for every application so u have to compile it
2. Now here is how u compile it
3. open terminal
4. go to the directory where the folder is
5. tar xvzf package.tar.gz (or tar xvjf package.tar.bz2)
6. cd package
7. ./configure
8. 6 out of 10 times u will get astupid library or package missing error here
9. go to synaptic if ur on ubuntu (if ur not God bless u)
10. Find the req repository/package/library
11. try form step7 again
12. ifa ll goes well then- make
13. theninstall make or whatever (i forgot the command)

there u have it

Installing on osx: (the best feature in osx without doubt)

1. get the app
2. load the dmg
3. copy the app folder to the applications folder

but im not sure if u can choose any other location for installing apps in os x (dont know)

Now the topic being windows and linux 1 can make his own decision

and btw cyrus mind editing the first line of thread coz every1 wants to talk sense here

[MetalheadGautham]

Originally Posted by drgrudge

MetalheadGautham -
Thanks for explaining. But how I'm supposed to 'learn' them?

Does *ALL* Linux Distros support out of the box net connectivity? Then why is the thread there? What if I dunno how to connect to Internet and need these command line things?

But you do have a point when you say not to compare linux commandline and say that its more complicated than windows GUI. But I never compared Linux with Windows. All I said was Linux is geeky. Atleast it looks geeky.

What do people expect after installing OS? It should work right away. What's the point if a .mp3 file is not playing? It's not Ubuntu's fault that it's not playing but how are the commom people supposed to know?

Download the ubuntu Live CD. On PC, if you want Xubuntu 7.10, you might also concider Ubuntu 7.04 like me(as I have 256 mb ram)

you might learn a distro by experiencing it. Just explore around in limited user mode. If you are asked for a password and you have no idea what you are doing, it means you need to click cancel.

actually, in India we have several types on net, many of which need simple configuration. in feisty with dataone broadband, go to windows, coppy all system settings in the net part, restart PC but don't off the modem, in ubuntu, go to administration tab, click network. fill in all these values, but select static IP/manual configuration(though its not). Restart modem to use net.

In ubuntu, you have a package called ubuntu-restricted-extras under the other section in the add/remove button at the bottom of the chart programs. It has java, codecs, flash, etc in it. its the one stop solution for removing the cripples from the ubuntu CD. but it works only with net, but hell, all have net. I asked digit to give it+win32codecs in each issue, as its hardly 50 MB and very benificial to those without net wanting Ubuntu, but I have not seen any progress yet. People don't know this exists too.

As for linux's geekiness, the community maintained distro are always geeky(debian, gentoo, etc) because the only community which maintains a distro will be the geek community. they are for intermediate to advanced power users and require tweaks and hacks to make the install worthwile. But they are in the DIY linux motto, so you can't challenge them.

For simplicity for noobs, use a company sponcered distro like fedora(not recomended for PCs when ubuntu and SuSE exist), OPENSuSE, Ubuntu, etc. They, especially SuSE, feature lots of candy out of box. They are designed for migrators from windows.

Its not recomended by me to install linux in a Macintosh, because you already have an OS that is tailored for the Box(OS X) which is secure(like linux), can do lots of professional tasks(which linux can) and can safely browse the net. So linux will be a waste of space, as you already have a similar software in the MAC. there is not point in owning a MAC without OS X, so you can't remove it. Windows is needed on a Macintosh for gaming. Thats a damn good reason to have XP SP3 on a MAC. So unless you are a linux developer/fan/researcher/programmer, its no use to waste a MAC;s HDD space.

Linux however, is awssome on a PC, most specifically that average 30K intel twincore+GMA3100+64bit+1GBDDR2RAM PC that most budget buyers buy today, as they can run linux in maximum compability mode in full glory., and still have windows for gaming and running some software work demands.

Linux is used on old PCs only because while they can still run Win98SE, thats not secure and stable enough by today's standards, but you get an up to date secure linux distro for it. Just don't go and install ubuntu, suse, fedora, etc, as they will perform badder than XP in low configs(vista like setting minus 256 mb ram recomended for them). For old PCs, use only Xubuntu(128 ram recomended), Vector Linux(better install yum/apt in it), Damn Small Linux, etc. They can be secure, play movies/songs, browse net, run office apps, write CDs/DVDs, act as download rigs, etc. But gaming is pointless on these old timers. Only lan based chess, bridge, bingo, etc(which don't need comps anyway) can be played.

PS: sorry for long post and deviating from the original topic.

Originally Posted by iMav

i thought this was a rant thread and so i was havingsome fun but now that u guys wanna talk some sense so lets talk sense:

Installing something in windows:

1. get the file - normally a exe
2. double click
3. follow the wizard which has normal steps like wheredo u want to install it to; what name u want and what serial no. and thats it
4. some applications might need u to restart (though i find no big deal in a simple restart)

Installing something in linux:

1. if ur using ubuntuget a .deb file which is not available for every application so u have to compile it
2. Now here is how u compile it
3. open terminal
4. go to the directory where the folder is
5. tar xvzf package.tar.gz (or tar xvjf package.tar.bz2)
6. cd package
7. ./configure
8. 6 out of 10 times u will get astupid library or package missing error here
9. go to synaptic if ur on ubuntu (if ur not God bless u)
10. Find the req repository/package/library
11. try form step7 again
12. ifa ll goes well then- make
13. theninstall make or whatever (i forgot the command)

there u have it

Installing on osx: (the best feature in osx without doubt)

1. get the app
2. load the dmg
3. copy the app folder to the applications folder

but im not sure if u can choose any other location for installing apps in os x (dont know)

Now the topic being windows and linux 1 can make his own decision

and btw cyrus mind editing the first line of thread coz every1 wants to talk sense here

you have several softys for linux, compared to macintoshes, which have only a handful of softys.

so even if you sekect only the deb files, you still have tonnes of softys. don't try to act smart comparing mac to lin, which as I said in my post is pointless.

as for windows, exe install is not secure.

besides who told you you don't get .tar.gz files for windows too? you also get only the files od the program and you might need to do manual placing. you just don't look properly.

In linux you only see the alternative ways of installing stuff. you have deb, rpm and bin for installation. jar is there too. these are all very secure.

bin and jar need to be handled with care, but with unix style permissions in linux, it won't be a problem for intermediate to expert users even with untrusted software sources.

and most importantly, remember this:

you can install software by compiling in windows too, but its too complicated. you can go commandline in windows too, but its too complicated. thats why you have only GUIed exes for windows. The former options are very easy in linux, so you use them. Linux GUI is also very easy, but the previous methords are prefered for ease of informing others(commandline) and compatibility(compiling). you are not used to these stuff on windows because they are dead difficult. Let me see you try to compile lame on a fresh windows install.


The only reason for all this is because windows is not as good as linux since windows 98. till 98, windows was only an addon to dos, in which all work could be done easily by that day's standards. but now they remove all the command line facilities from XP and tell its easy to use. what crazyness... windows can become accepted only if they revise the commandline and make it more secure. they can also bundle the M$ C/C++ compiler which is supposed to be very good. This can also be used to install softwares. Then you will know the reason linux was great. It evolved in commandline, the GUI was only an addon that can be changed and customised easily.

[iMav]

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

you can install software by compiling in windows too, but its too complicated. you can go commandline in windows too, but its too complicated. thats why you have only GUIed exes for windows. The former options are very easy in linux, so you use them. Linux GUI is also very easy, but the previous methords are prefered for ease of informing others(commandline) and compatibility(compiling). you are not used to these stuff on windows because they are dead difficult. Let me see you try to compile lame on a fresh windows install.

so in short for u typing lines of commands is easier than simply double clicking and y do i need to compile anything ... i hav simple exe for everything double click direct the installation and done simple enough as the title says as compared to what needs to do in linux

[MetalheadGautham]

Originally Posted by iMav

so in short for u typing lines of commands is easier than simply double clicking and y do i need to compile anything ... i hav simple exe for everything double click direct the installation and done simple enough as the title says as compared to what needs to do in linux

compatibility reasons force one to compile. a software compiled on your computer runs perfectly on it without any possible compatibility related defects. and yes, coppy pasting commands and pressing enter is nothing difficult compared to a double click. who says you have exes for every single thing? besides, who the heck told you that you MUST only use compiling and commands for linux softwares?

besides, as I already said, browsing the net, downloading the needed software(and waiting a lot for that download on a cheap IE download) then locating the file, double clicking and then single clicking a few times is much more difficult and less secure than a simple copy paste of a command and pressing enter. you are in full control in the linux command way, as messages tell you what is going where and allow you to stop/undo the process. In exes, you are most vulnerable to viruses.

[iMav]

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

besides, as I already said, browsing the net, downloading the needed software(and waiting a lot for that download on a cheap IE download) then locating the file, double clicking and then single clicking a few times is much more difficult and less secure than a simple copy paste of a command and pressing enter. you are in full control in the linux command way, as messages tell you what is going where and allow you to stop/undo the process. In exes, you are most vulnerable to viruses.

just to remind this is not ur spoof article thread

[MetalheadGautham]

Originally Posted by iMav

just to remind this is not ur spoof article thread

and what do you mean by that?

PS: now I understand that you intend to get this topic locked by continuously attacking it and forcing me to use sticks.(If I had used some heavy artilary, or even a sword, you could not have posted again)

[iMav]

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

and what do you mean by that?

i mean that wat uv written is absolute bs

[MetalheadGautham]

Originally Posted by iMav

i mean that wat uv written is absolute bs

justify your statement

[iMav]

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

besides, as I already said, browsing the net, downloading the needed software(and waiting a lot for that download on a cheap IE download)

only ubuntu has synaptic and with sites like download.com finding something is not difficult

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

then locating the file,

u candefine where u want to dwonld

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

double clickin is much more difficult and less secure than a simple copy paste of a command and pressing enter.

single clicking a few time tells me and allows me to define where i want to install the app notbeing restricted to wher theos wants to install it; security is proportional to ur common sense; copy-pating now this is the funny part to copy past u need to open a document whr the commands are there to copy from now finding this doc is more difficult i know 1 can memorize the commands but now u explicitly mentioned copy pasting fearing that i wud pounce on u for making me meorize commands unfortuantely either ways u got pwned

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

allow you to stop/undo the process.

a cancel button is there in every installer

Originally Posted by MetalheadGautham

In exes, you are most vulnerable to viruses.

again it depends on ur common sense

[Cyrus_the_virus]

@metalhead, don't fight with the guy who himself knows nothing other than writing BS and blames others for writing BS.. lol..

[MetalheadGautham]

Originally Posted by Cyrus_the_virus

@metalhead, don't fight with the guy who himself knows nothing other than writing BS and blames others for writing BS.. lol..

I agree we better ignore him, as he will get this thread locked and none can benifit from it.

[prasad_den]

besides, as I already said, browsing the net, downloading the needed software(and waiting a lot for that download on a cheap IE download) then locating the file, double clicking and then single clicking a few times is much more difficult and less secure than a simple copy paste of a command and pressing enter. you are in full control in the linux command way, as messages tell you what is going where and allow you to stop/undo the process.

Seriously, try explaining this to a total noob. It might be easy for you, but really it isn't all that easy at all when one doesn't have an inkling of idea about command-line methods. Finding the right command from the huge list of commands is in itself a big task. I'm talking from experience here. You've got to see the learning curve here. Definitely windows (and maybe OSX too, I haven't used it) has a smaller learning curve than linux.

In exes, you are most vulnerable to viruses.

Please do not deviate from the topic. We're here to discuss exclusively whether windows or linux is easier. Security-wise anyone would agree linux is most safe.