Nuclear India or Nuke Free India?

[Aberforth]

Taking a walk down my block I came across some Greenpeace activists who loaded me with pamphlets and asked me to join it. I came home and read the pamphlets and came across the WMD section where greenpeace is campaigning about India's WMDs aka Nuclear Weapons. They think India should denuclearise itself for the interests of humanity. I find that hard to accept, denuclearisation of India would put it at a severe disadvantage from hostile countries like Pakistan and China, both of which are nuclear powers. I discussed this with a friend of mine and looks likes she is in agreement with the greenpeace propaganda which made me rethink if it really is a problem if India is a nuclear power. To think she is a masters in Political Science from Delhi University.

My point nuclear weapons are a cheaper means of defence in the long run then feeding a million strong army and we know it isn't going to be much danger to humanity as no country is likely to use it considering the present world political world situation. What it does it ensure a secure environment for the nation as other nations are unlikely to attack or considering attacking it if the country posesses nuclear weapons. I dislike nukes as a weapon and i think the world would have been better off if it didn't exist in the first place. But I also believe that once it came into existence and possession of countries hostile to us it is in our national interest we also become a nuclear power which India has been ensuring inspite of all sanctions and international pressure after tests in the 1970s.

And Greenpeace conveniently forgot Russian and US proliferation while bashing India and Europe for their nuclearisation. Double standards?

Now the point of debate. Do you agree with nuclearisation of India's defence or do you think India would be better off going for conventional defence? Why do you agree and why not?

[anandk]

its already nuclear; as it shud be

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by anandk

its already nuclear; as it shud be

We know it is. Debate is on whether you support it or not.

[praka123]

first US and China be nuke-free,then we can think of it

Originally Posted by praka123

first US and China be nuke-free,then we can think of it

and how could you forget pakistan. They are just waiting for the time to nuke India.

They only country i know a nuclear free is Australia.
__________

Originally Posted by Aberforth

Taking a walk down my block I came across some Greenpeace activists who loaded me with pamphlets and asked me to join it. I came home and read the pamphlets and came across the WMD section where greenpeace is campaigning about India's WMDs aka Nuclear Weapons. They think India should denuclearise itself for the interests of humanity. I find that hard to accept, denuclearisation of India would put it at a severe disadvantage from hostile countries like Pakistan and China, both of which are nuclear powers. I discussed this with a friend of mine and looks likes she is in agreement with the greenpeace propaganda which made me rethink if it really is a problem if India is a nuclear power. To think she is a masters in Political Science from Delhi University.

My point nuclear weapons are a cheaper means of defence in the long run then feeding a million strong army and we know it isn't going to be much danger to humanity as no country is likely to use it considering the present world political world situation. What it does it ensure a secure environment for the nation as other nations are unlikely to attack or considering attacking it if the country posesses nuclear weapons. I dislike nukes as a weapon and i think the world would have been better off if it didn't exist in the first place. But I also believe that once it came into existence and possession of countries hostile to us it is in our national interest we also become a nuclear power which India has been ensuring inspite of all sanctions and international pressure after tests in the 1970s.

And Greenpeace conveniently forgot Russian and US proliferation while bashing India and Europe for their nuclearisation. Double standards?

Now the point of debate. Do you agree with nuclearisation of India's defence or do you think India would be better off going for conventional defence? Why do you agree and why not?

US calls Greepeace a terrorist.

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by thunderbird.117

US calls Greepeace a terrorist.

Everyone knows they aren't so either its misleading comment or sarcasm on part of US. If they really considered them terrorists as lot of Exon Mobil activists would have been in Guatanamo Bay.

Originally Posted by thunderbird.117

They only country i know a nuclear free is Australia.

So are the other countries of the world except the nine nuclear powers. If North Korea joins it'll be ten.

Originally Posted by Aberforth

Everyone knows they aren't so either its misleading comment or sarcasm on part of US. If they really considered them terrorists as lot of Exon Mobil activists would have been in Guatanamo Bay.



So are the other countries of the world except the nine nuclear powers. If North Korea joins it'll be ten.

The other countries can not afford or they have the nuclear bomb in secret base.

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by thunderbird.117

The other countries can not afford or they have the nuclear bomb in secret base.

Nuclear bombs aren't that expensive once you get the plans and project in order. In fact the overall cost of developing nuclear weapons is much cheaper than maintaining a armed millitary in an economic and millitary strength terms. But if as you said, they can't afford it in the first place they can't.

Second, you could hide nukes in scret bases or underground but you always need to test them to make sure they are working and the project is successful. Testing them releases a lot of radiations, causes a lot of disturbances which could be picked up by any of the reconaissance satellites. Sooner or later a country with nuclear capabilities or reseach will come to international notice like N Korea and Iran, however you try to hide.

After the testing is done and you have produced extra warheads you can hide them that wouldn't be a problem. In simple way, the world will know you have nukes but won't know where you kept them. It would be difficult to keep the world in belief that you don't have them at all if you actually have them (unless you buy them in black from other countries which practically is possible only in Hollywood movies ). Even if you test them in the seas or third countries, there are intelligence methods which can trace it to the country doing the testing.

[kumarmohit]

I have no problems with any country having nukes as long as they do not use it for killing people.

[hailgautam]

Green Peace is a responsible and a good organization I support them on all matters but i have to differ on this matter. Like All who have voted till now i have voted for the Nuclear India. Irrespective of whether we can afford it or not it is a must that we should possess them.

1. It acts as a deterant to our "Goody"-goody neighbors.
2. Helps to develop the technology that can be used for Rocket Science and Civil Nuclear Power Plants. Nuclear Power -one must understand is the future of the energy sources.
3. We have show again and again that we are a responsible nation when it comes to Nuclear Power (did I say that - we have blasted a couple though) - ok having said that still we are a responsible lot, so we can have.

[Sykora]

I don't think _any_ country should have a nuclear arsenal, including India, US, Pakistan and what have you. We've already seen what kind of loss there is to mankind when one of these is used, there can only be chaos if it happens again.

Originally Posted by kumarmohit

I have no problems with any country having nukes as long as they do not use it for killing people.

For what possible other reason can they be used for? There are much better places to put that extra funding as well as the nuclear fuel. I think the government's prioriies should to keep one of their own alive, rather than nuke a million of the enemy.

[Simple_Graduate]

If the choice was between "Nuclear India" or "Nuke Free WORLD", I would choose the latter.

But until that happens I choose a Nuclear India.

[ssdivisiongermany1933]

We want 1000+ nuclear warheads , anything less than that will not be good

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by ssdivisiongermany1933

We want 1000+ nuclear warheads , anything less than that will not be good

Why such a huge number?

[kumarmohit]

Originally Posted by Sykora

For what possible other reason can they be used for? There are much better places to put that extra funding as well as the nuclear fuel. I think the government's prioriies should to keep one of their own alive, rather than nuke a million of the enemy.

Nukes seem to be a very good deterrent. They can be made and left put. No one would want to use them because of their effect and No one will make their possessor use use them as they know the effects too. (This excludes terrorists who are hell bent on destruction )

[goobimama]

I don't believe it. So many people want a India to be a nuclear power.

[Sykora]

Originally Posted by kumarmohit

Nukes seem to be a very good deterrent. They can be made and left put. No one would want to use them because of their effect and No one will make their possessor use use them as they know the effects too. (This excludes terrorists who are hell bent on destruction )

True. But if nobody had them, the extra resources could be put in better places. I have no objection to missile defense. It is the offensive power I find unnecessary.

On the other hand, if any country used a nuke against another country, whether their target had them or not, the rest of the world would be forced to guard their interests. That in itself would be a sufficient deterrent for most countries.

Originally Posted by Aberforth

Why such a huge number?

To bomb each cities,villages,tiny part of the land. .

[Aberforth]

Originally Posted by Sykora

True. But if nobody had them, the extra resources could be put in better places. I have no objection to missile defense. It is the offensive power I find unnecessary.

I agree with this part, if the whole world didn't have nuclear weapons it would have been a better place. Nuclear weapon is a defensive power too, no offensive. It has the power of being a deterrant for other countries from attacking a nuclear power. US was close to attacking Russia during cold war tensions but confirmed successful nuclear testings made USS Missouri and other warships turn back. Similar is the case with US and China conflict of interests decades ago.

Originally Posted by Sykora

On the other hand, if any country used a nuke against another country, whether their target had them or not, the rest of the world would be forced to guard their interests. That in itself would be a sufficient deterrent for most countries.

If a nuclear country drop a few nukes on a non-nuclear enemy the whole world is going to look the other way and try to show their displeasures through million dollar meetings and protests. When US used dioxin on Vietnamese which are hazardrous chemicals and cause genetic aberration, where was the world with their morality? Of course they protested but did it change the fact, millions of people were poisoned to death and survivors genetically altered?

If Vietnam was a nuclear power lives of 2 million people and their future generations would have been saved. US would have thought, "Oh no, not nuclear, let us try talks instead". If Pakistan and China drop nukes on India it is unlikely any country will try to stop them or take any action till the whole of India is a large car parking space.

Originally Posted by Aberforth

I agree with this part, if the whole world didn't have nuclear weapons it would have been a better place. Nuclear weapon is a defensive power too, no offensive. It has the power of being a deterrant for other countries from attacking a nuclear power. US was close to attacking Russia during cold war tensions but confirmed successful nuclear testings made USS Missouri and other warships turn back. Similar is the case with US and China conflict of interests decades ago.




If a nuclear country drop a few nukes on a non-nuclear enemy the whole world is going to look the other way and try to show their displeasures through million dollar meetings and protests. When US used dioxin on Vietnamese which are hazardrous chemicals and cause genetic aberration, where was the world with their morality? Of course they protested but did it change the fact, millions of people were poisoned to death and survivors genetically altered?

If Vietnam was a nuclear power lives of 2 million people and their future generations would have been saved. US would have thought, "Oh no, not nuclear, let us try talks instead". If Pakistan and China drop nukes on India it is unlikely any country will try to stop them or take any action till the whole of India is a large car parking space.

Why blame of US for it. Blame on world war 2. Did not nazi use Posion gas on Jews people?. And then later coming iran and iraq war. Saddam Hussein miliary use posion gas on iranians and the kurds. Then why blame only US for this things.

War is necessary when this world is filled with hatred,sins and power. War is only options. How many people have been killed and how many people have been born.


More over bangalore itself is a warzone when they are protests. Let us see other place for instance. Gujarat,Kerala and etc and now we have Terrorist Warfare.


When a real war happens India should not sit dumb or blind. They will be scenorio when india is going to attacked by nukes and india got to use when the times comes.

All i say is india is standing dumb when pakistan is freely attacking india in indirected way.

[kumarmohit]

Originally Posted by Sykora

True. But if nobody had them, the extra resources could be put in better places. I have no objection to missile defense. It is the offensive power I find unnecessary.

Frankly Dear, the world already has enough extra resources to take care of people in trouble, What is lacking is the will of politicians.

The politicians are as unwilling to invest in development as they are unwilling to fire nukes. I am not saying that they are totally idiots, they do strike on good ideas, like the Palna scheme where the govt is going to adopt girl child if parents are unwilling to keep it but frankly this is going to make more people leave their children to govt care. If they can mount such a thing they have more than enough resources, also the scheme is good but what if some one leaves a boy? They cant leave the kid alone as that would be barbarianism but the boy cant be financed because of the law.

The problem is not lack of resources, but vested interests and lack of will and complications which occur from case to case and time to time which can both be good and bad.

Originally Posted by Sykora

On the other hand, if any country used a nuke against another country, whether their target had them or not, the rest of the world would be forced to guard their interests. That in itself would be a sufficient deterrent for most countries.

I already mentioned terrorists are excluded

[lalam]

I guess this has become a matter of importance for we don't wanna feel left behind do we...All other countries has it so why should not india in fact we'll feel small if we do this...The future don't look so good with all this nuclear but we have no choice but to get in the pack for fear of elimination.

[NIGHTMARE]

Nuke Free India? no way

[planetcall]

This world is preparing for war on warfooting. Having a deterrance is of no use until you have an edge over your enemy. This is a blind race and we are very much part of it. Nuclear technology has given us a new dimension of growth and an ultimate power to our militia. We have two big enemies eyeing for the very opportunity so we also have to prepare. Development is essential but also essential is to have the WMDs so that the message goes clear that India is not what it used to be in 1961.

[Aberforth]

@ thunderbird.117 - Nazis committed crime against humanity and the perpretors have been broght to book for it. Same is the case with Saddam and his Baath regime. What about Ronald Regan and George Bush? Did we see them brought to book for genocide in Iraq, Vietnam, Guyana, Libya, Somalia, etc? No and not likely too soon. Remember the Swiss bank's proofing from political influence survived Hitelr but not the Bush regime. Who is worse?

What if for some weird chain of reasoning US, Pakistan or China decides to bomb the hell out of Delhi and Mumbai? The whole world is more likely than not to look and talk political ideologies while people die. Which isn't likely to happen so long as India is nuclear. It will be akin to tiger feeding on a poisonous toad.

China's history is a proof how the world kicks around a weak country for their own interests. Today everyone likes to keep a wide smiley face in front of China inspite of their domestic market getting rollered by the Chinese. It wouldn't have happened and China would have been under US occupation if USS Missouri went ahead and China had no nukes in the 1960s.

@ planetcall - Well said. India needs to show the world it is no longer a potential colonial destination for anyone and India dictates the terms in today's political scenario in its own interests rather than others quoting their greedy 'wants'. A strong millitary and defence system is a strong 'self esteem boost' for such to happen.

[ssdivisiongermany1933]

No chance of denuclearizing ,it's a rubbish idea

[gxsaurav]

I don't want to see a "Nuclear Bomb" India, rather I want to see a "cheap nuclear power plant for 10 years " India.

Having nuclear bombs alone does nothing to make a country. It's methods & ideology does. We can & will progress even if we do not have nuclear bombs

[premsharma]

No way without Nuclearisation. Thanks Vajpayee for parading Guts. It was public demand.

[Stick]

Originally Posted by gx_saurav

I don't want to see a "Nuclear Bomb" India, rather I want to see a "cheap nuclear power plant for 10 years " India.

Having nuclear bombs alone does nothing to make a country. It's methods & ideology does. We can & will progress even if we do not have nuclear bombs

Dada,

The day India has no Nuclear Bomb, first Pakistan will attack with support of China.

We experience same situation with we didn't have Nuclear Bomb in 1965, 1972 and 1975.

I didn't forget about Kargil but it was not Open War.

[gxsaurav]

war means money. pakistan & China are making money through india. No way they are gonna attack india.