Reasons for a Mac user to make the switch to Linux.

[aryayush]

Hello!
I couldn't find any. Linux advocates give a million reasons for Windows users to make the switch. Some of them are very true, some not so much. But, in general, it has become the notion nowadays that Linux is, indeed, a better platform than Windows. Windows enthusiasts will vehemently deny it, and I do too, and Linux users whole heartly support the notion.
Anyway, what I would like to know is what are the reasons, if any, that make Linux (any single distribution - not all of them combined) a better choice than Apple's Mac OS X Tiger (and Leopard). I have used Ubuntu 6.06 LTS and OpenSUSE Linux 10.1. Both of them were very good, at least much better than I had expected. But (there's always a but!) I could not see anything that would want me to ditch OS X and use Linux full time. I am all for experimenting and I always try to get hold of beta versions of anything (and I just love wasting bandwidth). So I wouldn't mind trying a few more Linux distros (in fact, Fedore Core 6 "Zod" is being downloaded as I type).
I invite all Linux users and open source fans to post the advantages they think that Linux users enjoy over the Macintosh and it might really help me discover some great new Linux specific features that I am missing on the Macintosh.
However, I would like to put a stop to two very invalid arguments right here. the first is that Linux is free and the Mac is very expensive. We are talking about a person who has already bought a Mac making the switch to Linux, so the argument really has no value anyway. Besides, we are only taking about the software and it's features here. The second one is that Linux makes a better server. As we are talking about end user experience of a normal home user here, servers should not raise their heads in this thread. It is my request that you please don't bring the above two aspects into the discussion.
Please do start!

P.S. - I posted this in the 'Fight Club' section because I am sure this will eventually turn into a 'Mac vs. Linux' debate and is things are bound to get heated up. Moderators may, however, wish to move it to 'Open Source' if they have confidence on the temperament of the forum members here!

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aryaush

However, I would like to put a stop to two very invalid arguments right here. the first is that Linux is free and the Mac is very expensive. We are talking about a person who has already bought a Mac making the switch to Linux, so the argument really has no value anyway.

I know argument is of no value, but the highlighted part is a strong reason n u r trying to suppress it before the talk? Its like requesting the people not to talk on the main advantages! Its not the only, but certainly one of the main advantages.

Originally Posted by aryaush

The second one is that Linux makes a better server.

U r trying to supress another advantage?
U want people to talk on something in which u think Mac is better than Linux?

U have posted it in fight club and u want people to talk on a small section of the main topic? Why don't u launch a full fledged debate??

I really dunno how good Mac is nor can I compare the end/normal user's experience and many won't be able to either coz only a few people here have used it And in a debate the person shud have experience on both the platforms! But one thing's for sure, the Open Source community is rising very very fast! Alteast Thats what I have noticed in mah college n here! And with such increasing community support, Linux is really gonna be the perfection of tommorrow!

[aryayush]

This is not intended to be a Mac vs. Linux discussion. I just wanted to know that if Mac and Linux were both free, which one should a home user opt for? Obviously, a person needs a machine to run an operating system and you don't get the hardware to run Linux for free. Now, if a person has opted to buy a MacBook instead of laptops from other companies, is there any reason for him to give Linux a try? I just wanted to know that. So, obviously, the price and server capabilities of Linux do not play into the discussion at all. I repeat that it is NOT a Mac vs. Linux thread (and I won't start a full-fledged debate on that topic because I know little to nothing about Linux and there are only two Mac users here compared to the tens of Linux enthusiasts).

[mehulved]

Well I haven't used Mac but I don't think there's a central repository where you can access all or atleast most of the softwares? Like apt, yum, smart, ports in Linux and BSD's. Yeah they evolved out of the need for a package manager but still a central place for all the softwares you need is really good IMO.
Then for many people, it is really essential to know the source code of the software you use, that is the case in any open source OS but not in OS X.
Then compiling a kernel has really nice advantage performance wise. It was previously possible with a bit of help from Darwin project but it's not so possible now AFAIK. But, well these things are required by a small minority of people not a huge majority.
Then, it's customisation of the overall OS, now that's possible in linux distros like gentoo, LFS and all. But, no proprietory OS allow that.
And anyways there are a lot of open source softwares used by apple like cups for printing, konqueror engine for safari, apache is the inbuilt fileserver in Mac OS X. Both OS'es have different users with different needs. And maybe andy is the person who can be more helpful here cos AFAIK he's the only person who's used both OS'es extensively at home and all 3 if you count windows. He still needs to flirt around with windows everyday

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

Well I haven't used Mac but I don't think there's a central repository where you can access all or atleast most of the softwares? Like apt, yum, smart, ports in Linux and BSD's. Yeah they evolved out of the need for a package manager but still a central place for all the softwares you need is really good IMO.

There is a central location for all applications and it is called 'Applications'.

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

Then for many people, it is really essential to know the source code of the software you use, that is the case in any open source OS but not in OS X.

Not for me, not for most home users (a person who doesn't know much programming anyway).

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

Then compiling a kernel has really nice advantage performance wise. It was previously possible with a bit of help from Darwin project but it's not so possible now AFAIK. But, well these things are required by a small minority of people not a huge majority.

Not for home users again.

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

Then, it's customisation of the overall OS, now that's possible in linux distros like gentoo, LFS and all. But, no proprietory OS allow that.

You might have a point there but I know of many people who complain that Gentoo has a huge number of very geeky options and is is almost unusable for a simple user. And OS X does offer a horde of customisations options. You can write your own AppleScripts or download them from the vast repository at Apple's website, tinker directly with Terminal or use Automator for creating automated workflows. Then there are a whole lot of applications out there that allow you to customise virtually every part of your operating system.

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

And anyways there are a lot of open source softwares used by apple like cups for printing, konqueror engine for safari, apache is the inbuilt fileserver in Mac OS X.

And your point is?

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

Both OS'es have different users with different needs.

I completely agree with you. However, I was always fiddling around with operating systems when I used Windows and I found some unique features in Linux distros that made me boot into them often. Then I bought the Macintosh and discovered this superb platform with a multitude of better features than Windows. However, I still installed OpenSUSE 10.1 to try it out and when it was complete, I launched it and then sat staring at the desktop. What do I do now? I could count many features that my Mac had and SUSE did not but a little bit of browsing around had me convinced that there wasn't a single reason for me to use SUSE except for novelty. And that is why I started this thread.

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

And maybe andy is the person who can be more helpful here cos AFAIK he's the only person who's used both OS'es extensively at home and all 3 if you count windows. He still needs to flirt around with windows everyday

That's great. Hope he shows up ASAP!

[mehulved]

Originally Posted by aryayush

There is a central location for all applications and it is called 'Applications'.

I am not talking of central location where all the downloaded applications are stored. I am talking about a central location from where you can download all the applications.

[mail2and]

I've used all 3 OSes. My favourite is Slackware(and its variants). No other OS runs so well on low system resources as Slackware does(Yeah, I know it's a distro).

Around 1.5 years ago, my computer was about to give in, and I started looking at different options. I had used OS X before but for a very brief period of time.

I looked at the Mac Mini at a dealer's place, and I decided that it'll be my next computer. I'm a person who values design as much as I value comp. features and specifications. For my use, even a P3 500 MHZ is more than enough(I've never played games in life. Besides, I'm not a 5 yr old kid).

After I bought my Mini and started using OS X on a more regular basis, I understood why OS X was rated so highly. I can say that I hadn't experienced true multi-tasking before.

Another aspect of OS X that I loved was the effective management of screen real estate. The top menu bar is dynamic i.e. it will change the options to the application in focus. This saves vertical screen space. Besides, having a menu bar in each application is plain ugly and inefficient.

The Dock is also a more effficient way of launching applications. There is no 'Start/Programs' menu in OS X. However, starting with Tiger(launched 1.5 yrs ago), OS X offers Spotlight(instant search). Press Command+Space and type the name of the app, and press enter. This takes lesser time in launching apps than it takes in the conventional 'Start/Programs' method. Most people use max 20 apps, and you can keep all of them on the dock itself.

Networking in OS X was a dream, too. When my cousin came around, I shared my PPPoE connection with him via Wi-fi. No setups, no configuration. The OS recognized his laptop, I clicked on 'share' and Bang! I was sharing internet with him in a matter of minutes. I call it the 1-2-3 method. No workgroups, no configuration, no 'network wizards'.



Besides, you can compile and run most of the linux apps on OS X.

I'd again like to mention the existence of small, free apps on OS X. They're amazing. Examples include MacTheRipper, Adium, Burn, Cog, OnyX, Growl, Quicksilver(My fav application), Max, Menuet, Camino, Seashore etc.

OS X has had in-built system wide spell checker since ages. So, no matter whether you're chatting on yahoo, surfing on Adium, writing a doc on NeoOffice/ MS Office, the spell checker will check for save you the blushes!

Another interesting feature in Cocoa apps is horizontal scrolling. Click on shift and scroll normally. You'd be scrolling horizontally. So need no to click and drag those irritating horizontal scroll bars.

Safari, Camino and other OS X apps can auto-resize as per the dimensions of the page. No 'maximise, minimize' kind of thing.

Suppose, you're writing stuff for your project. You've got 5-6 apps open, and you need see a couple of them side by side. Expose comes in to your rescue here. Click on the middle mouse button and bang! Have a look.



Also, I like most ppl on OS X, don't maximise the window while browsing. It seemed strange at start, but now I can't surf with a window maximised.

I like the in-built pdf viewer, too. In short, the whole computing experience is nice and clean. And at last, ze eye candy




However, OS X has its shortcomings, too. Finder is not as good as Konqueror is. It needs a whole new write-up. Java apps are not as responsive as they are on Windows. Also, OS X can't play DRM'ed WMA files. Though, I put the blame of the last thing on MS for not releasing an update to their WMP software for OS X.

I'll post more stuff as it comes to my mind. Till now, this discussion was mature and nice. Wait for the trolls. Then, it'll be time to lock the thread.

[busyanuj]

gaming can be the major factor for home users (essentially: gamers). choice of games available for mac is generally much much less as compared to the ones available for windows.

other than that, there'll always be many alternatives to windows softwares in linux as well as mac.

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by busyanuj

other than that, there'll always be many alternatives to windows softwares in linux as well as mac.

And the other way around?

[busyanuj]

Originally Posted by mail2and

And the other way around?

oh andy ! never worry about that. if mac has the famous graphics, Microsoft's *originally* showing it in Vista as Aero+other changes

plus, there are a variety of themes and visual styles to give you the "mac feel" on windows


...that's why i say, windows rox

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by busyanuj

oh andy ! never worry about that. if mac has the famous graphics, Microsoft's *originally* showing it in Vista as Aero+other changes

plus, there are a variety of themes and visual styles to give you the "mac feel" on windows


...that's why i say, windows rox

I meant software, not themes.

[busyanuj]

Originally Posted by mail2and

I meant software, not themes.

haven't used a mac, so i got nothing to say on that one.

[blackpearl]

Mac, Linux and Windows are like cars.

The Windows Car cost a lot but easy to learn. Accessories also cost money and the car may occassionaly give trouble, but with it you can drive over 90% of the roads.

The Linux Car is Free and comes with a 10,000 page manual on "How to drive", without which you won't be able to steer even the driving wheel. With approximately 5 yrs of practice you can become a good driver and throw the manual out of the window. The Linux Car however runs in only 9% of the roads.

The Mac Car is the costliest, and easiest to drive too. Owing this car and buying accessories can lead you to bankruptcy. This car is the sleekest of all the 3, but it runs in less than 1% of the roads.

MORAL: If you like travelling, get Windows.

[rakeshishere]

Originally Posted by blackpearl

Mac, Linux and Windows are like cars.

The Windows Car cost a lot but easy to learn. Accessories also cost money and the car may occassionaly give trouble, but with it you can drive over 90% of the roads.

The Linux Car is Free and comes with a 10,000 page manual on "How to drive", without which you won't be able to steer even the driving wheel. With approximately 5 yrs of practice you can become a good driver and throw the manual out of the window. The Linux Car however runs in only 9% of the roads.

The Mac Car is the costliest, and easiest to drive too. Owing this car and buying accessories can lead you to bankruptcy. This car is the sleekest of all the 3, but it runs in less than 1% of the roads.

MORAL: If you like travelling, get Windows.

Nice Explaination But a Doubt:What if the Roads are worse like the Indian Roads

[blackpearl]

Originally Posted by rakeshishere

Nice Explaination But a Doubt:What if the Roads are worse like the Indian Roads

If you want to see the world, you have to take some pain

[mediator]

@blackpearl : U still living in ancient era?

Originally Posted by blackpearl

The Windows Car cost a lot but easy to learn. Accessories also cost money and the car may occassionaly give trouble, but with it you can drive over 90% of the roads.

Occassionaly? The car gives trouble wheneva u need to drive the car fast with full load and wanna reach the destination in time! The car can't be used even to drive 5 kms when its new. the company releases the spare parts and service packs, only then it can be run 100 kms, but then also "occasionally" gives problems. Also the car is armourless and has fragile wheels u need to install 3rd party armour and maintain it regularly (defragmentation,virus,spyware scans) ! Wheneva the company announces the next upgraded car it talks so much big, but when released it leaves its customer demoralised with only few of so many features talked about!

When the car is new u have to install its drivers,softwares explicitly,service packs(have to wait for that) and make it complete. That takes u like 2 days almost leaving u with dark circles on ur eyes!

Also u can't never trust that car, to run even 5 kms! Its performance also degrades when run quite a lot (fragmentation). To run windows car u need to grasp the steering wheel tightly and keep ur eyes straight on the roads be cautios at every turn n whereva u go. Since u don't have manuals regarding its source (closed source) u can neva repair that car urself when the car is down and stuck on a highway! Wait for one week or one month, sleep on the footpath, get frustrated n catch dengue before u get help!!

Originally Posted by blackpearl

The Linux Car is Free and comes with a 10,000 page manual on "How to drive", without which you won't be able to steer even the driving wheel. With approximately 5 yrs of practice you can become a good driver and throw the manual out of the window. The Linux Car however runs in only 9% of the roads.

Its free, fully armoured and u can always trust ur car to drive around the world without any degradation in performance!!!!! Today the car has evolved a lot and is as easy as to run windows car!
Since the source is known u can repair it wheneva u want n that too urself, if it "eva" gets corrupt! Its well known that the linux car has a very low probability of getting corrupt! Even ur kid can drive it freely n be safe! If the kid meets with an accident, the armour and the engine is soooo strong that kid wont be hurt anyhow! The driving wheel is very easy to steer with just a fingertip!
Today the linux car runs almost on every road and u dont need any experience to run it!
There are 2 types of linux cars : free n propreitary
In Free ones, u need to instal some dependencies and 5-6 new components to make it complete and it takes u like 1-2 hrs!
Propreitary ones are complete, just buy them and drive at full speed!


Linux cars are like army tanks and windows cars are like auto wheelers. WHen they collide then its well known that windows cars will gets crushed easily!

Linux cars have a lotta other advantages, but the page is too small for that to decribe!

Originally Posted by blackpearl

The Mac Car is the costliest, and easiest to drive too. Owing this car and buying accessories can lead you to bankruptcy. This car is the sleekest of all the 3, but it runs in less than 1% of the roads.

Then comes Mac cars! They r not free. What I have learnt, that they r much better in terms of security,stabilty n service than windows cars.

Given all that, even if this car is costly then also the customer will be thrilled by it and wud always want to buy it if he is given an option bet. windows and mac car resting side by side!

Linux car has a huge community support which is rising every single second! Since the majority of world is poor, this car is excellent for those poor people. Since the car is free n looks of this car is as good as windows, (in my opinion even better) it really thrills every one!

It makes the users especially of windows cars (windows fanboys) => jealous n mentally retards them. They then make ignorant and absurd statements with strong sarcasm in their statements n leaves users of linux and mac cars laughing at their schizophrenia and mental retardness!

Some windows car users get enlightened by other cars, but some windows car users become fanboys which degrades their thinking n leaves the world laughing at them! They keep on making absurd statements everywhere they go and make a mockery of themselves!



Its upto u to chose ur car!

[kumarmohit]

Originally Posted by mediator

@blackpearl : U still living in ancient era?


Occassionaly? The car gives trouble wheneva u need to drive the car fast with full load and wanna reach the destination in time! The car can't be used even to drive 5 kms when its new. the company releases the spare parts and service packs, only then it can be run 100 kms, but then also "occasionally" gives problems. Also the car is armourless and has fragile wheels u need to install 3rd party armour and maintain it regularly (defragmentation,virus,spyware scans) ! Wheneva the company announces the next upgraded car it talks so much big, but when released it leaves its customer demoralised with only few of so many features talked about!

When the car is new u have to install its drivers,softwares explicitly,service packs(have to wait for that) and make it complete. That takes u like 2 days almost leaving u with dark circles on ur eyes!

Also u can't never trust that car, to run even 5 kms! Its performance also degrades when run quite a lot (fragmentation). To run windows car u need to grasp the steering wheel tightly and keep ur eyes straight on the roads be cautios at every turn n whereva u go. Since u don't have manuals regarding its source (closed source) u can neva repair that car urself when the car is down and stuck on a highway! Wait for one week or one month, sleep on the footpath, get frustrated n catch dengue before u get help!!


Its free, fully armoured and u can always trust ur car to drive around the world without any degradation in performance!!!!! Today the car has evolved a lot and is as easy as to run windows car!
Since the source is known u can repair it wheneva u want n that too urself, if it "eva" gets corrupt! Its well known that the linux car has a very low probability of getting corrupt! Even ur kid can drive it freely n be safe! If the kid meets with an accident, the armour and the engine is soooo strong that kid wont be hurt anyhow! The driving wheel is very easy to steer with just a fingertip!
Today the linux car runs almost on every road and u dont need any experience to run it!
There are 2 types of linux cars : free n propreitary
In Free ones, u need to instal some dependencies and 5-6 new components to make it complete and it takes u like 1-2 hrs!
Propreitary ones are complete, just buy them and drive at full speed!


Linux cars are like army tanks and windows cars are like auto wheelers. WHen they collide then its well known that windows cars will gets crushed easily!

Linux cars have a lotta other advantages, but the page is too small for that to decribe!


Then comes Mac cars! They r not free. What I have learnt, that they r much better in terms of security,stabilty n service than windows cars.

Given all that, even if this car is costly then also the customer will be thrilled by it and wud always want to buy it if he is given an option bet. windows and mac car resting side by side!

Linux car has a huge community support which is rising every single second! Since the majority of world is poor, this car is excellent for those poor people. Since the car is free n looks of this car is as good as windows, (in my opinion even better) it really thrills every one!

It makes the users especially of windows cars (windows fanboys) => jealous n mentally retards them. They then make ignorant and absurd statements with strong sarcasm in their statements n leaves users of linux and mac cars laughing at their schizophrenia and mental retardness!

Some windows car users get enlightened by other cars, but some windows car users become fanboys which degrades their thinking n leaves the world laughing at them! They keep on making absurd statements everywhere they go and make a mockery of themselves!



Its upto u to chose ur car!

LOL

Off goes the Linux bomb . Come on ppl this is a Windows vs Mac OS thread. Not here puhleez.


Anyway the only reason I think of switching from Mac OS to Windows is "Sheer Stupidity"

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by kumarmohit

LOL

Off goes the Linux bomb . Come on ppl this is a Windows vs Mac OS thread. Not here puhleez.

No, it is not.
This thread is titled 'Reasons for a Mac user to make the switch to Linux' (I am extremely sorry for the typo). Please stick to the topic! To discuss Mac and Windows, go to 'Apple (Macintosh) vs. Microsoft (Windows)'.

Edit: Thanks to mail2and for changing the title!

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by aryayush

I request some moderator (mail2and) to please change the title to 'Reasons for a Mac user to make the switch to Linux'. It was an absent-minded typo.

Done

[aryayush]

Yeah, thanks again!

So, what's with all the Linux hyper-enthusiasts out there? Why are you guys missing out on the fun? mail2and, is there some Linux distro you prefer over Mac OS X? Is Slackware better, in your opinion? If yes, then can you please tell us the reasons?

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by aryayush

there are only two Mac users here compared to the tens of Linux enthusiasts).

Mmm.. 4 users: Satissh owns a Mac Mini.

Milind(goobimama) is the rich guy with an iMac and an iBook

[aryayush]

Who is this Satissh? What is his username?
And I forgot goobimama when posting the thread. I know only three of us. I think kumarmohit might also be a Mac user.
__________
Anyway, would you mind answering this:

Originally Posted by aryayush

mail2and, is there some Linux distro you prefer over Mac OS X? Is Slackware better, in your opinion? If yes, then can you please tell us the reasons?

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by aryayush

Yeah, thanks again!

So, what's with all the Linux hyper-enthusiasts out there? Why are you guys missing out on the fun? mail2and, is there some Linux distro you prefer over Mac OS X? Is Slackware better, in your opinion? If yes, then can you please tell us the reasons?

Slackware is best for machines with less processing power. It's so configurable that you'd get lots of options at the installation stage itself.

You can use distros based on Slack. They're a bit simpler and smaller(fit in 1 CD).

Zenwalk is a nice distro based on Slack.

SLAX is the best live cd. ever.

However, I'd not advise using Linux instead of OS X because both feel similar! You can run most of the Linux programs on Mac using Fink.

As you rightly said, the main argument of cost is not valid in your case, as you've already bought a MacBook and paid for Tiger.

The 'better for server' argument doesn't hold water either, as OS X has its own server version, too.

[goobimama]

another one of them Mac vs windows vs linux discussions eh? (even though arya did mention that it wasn't...). Waiting for gx to show up...

[aryayush]

Yes, it does but most people agree that Linux servers are better than XServes, thought I don't really agree. But anyway, the topic has no relation to this thread.
So, basically you agree that there is little to no reason for a Mac user to install Linux on their machines (unless it's for experimentation purposes). Mac offers all that Linux has in store and then some. Mac rules! ::self satisfied smug::

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by aryayush

Yes, it does but most people agree that Linux servers are better than XServes

You can run OS X Server on any Mac, and not just XServes.

[mehulved]

@aryayush Satissh's username is Satissh S. And he extensively uses Mac and Linux.
And as for slackware it's really great for P II's and P III's, just see the server on which slackware's site is hosted, but that doesn't mean that it's not so great for today's PC's. It is just great no frills and highly configurable OS. But, it can be a bit intimidating for newbies. But, if you can learn slackware then you can learn linux really nicely.

[JGuru]

Originally Posted by blackpearl

Mac, Linux and Windows are like cars.

The Windows Car cost a lot but easy to learn. Accessories also cost money and the car may occassionaly give trouble, but with it you can drive over 90% of the roads.

The Linux Car is Free and comes with a 10,000 page manual on "How to drive", without which you won't be able to steer even the driving wheel. With approximately 5 yrs of practice you can become a good driver and throw the manual out of the window. The Linux Car however runs in only 9% of the roads.

The Mac Car is the costliest, and easiest to drive too. Owing this car and buying accessories can lead you to bankruptcy. This car is the sleekest of all the 3, but it runs in less than 1% of the roads.

MORAL: If you like travelling, get Windows.

@Blackpearl, What you said about Linux is totally wrong!! There are more users
in this forum itself who are using Linux for past 5 or 6 months & they are very
comfortable with it.

[~Phenom~]

Originally Posted by JGuru

@Blackpearl, What you said about Linux is totally wrong!! There are more users
in this forum itself who are using Linux for past 5 or 6 months & they are very
comfortable with it.

I agree with JGURU.

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aryayush

So, what's with all the Linux hyper-enthusiasts out there?

Bro I told u there aren't many Linux users here who might have tried Mac. Andy says there are 4. SO, it wont be much of a interest if only 4 people are to be writing their experiences! U shud replace the "linux" in ur thread title to "Linux or Windows". It wud be fun if gx and others show up here. Believe me! They might say something of interest. For the time being since I dunno nething about MAC, I guess I'll be acting as an observer here tooo!

@Phenom : If I remember correctly, isn't ur uptime (experience) on Linux around 1-2 months ??