Reasons for a Mac user to make the switch to Linux.

[aryayush]

OK. I didn't know that. Sorry for the mistake!

[sgireesh]

aryayush says
Linus Torvalds spent a lot of hard work on Linux, yes. You HAVE to be prepared to work hard if you want to do something extraordinary. His was a commendable effort, but when I say that he had nothing to lose, I mean to say that he did not have millions of customers requesting all sorts of features, billions of dollars invested in his work, any sort of market goodwill to maintain or shareholders to satisfy.

Well in the last four years if i read that right! So in that case you should subscribe to the linux mailing list to see how many people come asking for questions to the kernel developers. Also how much is involved in the project.

Even in the beginning can't say he had nothing to lose in terms of money. For any programmer, time is money.

Leave out linux having a base to build on. When they started, both the mac and dos had a base to work too.. (if you have heard of PC-dos, IBM, AT&T etc etc..)

aryayush says
tell me how to enable beryl on etchy

i have posted how to enable compiz on mandriva. I use mandriva so i have done that. As for enabling beryl on mandriva, refer

http://seerofsouls.com/wiki/How-Tos/BerylMandriva2007.

aryayush says
Where does this system-admin come in? On a single-user PC, there is only one person who has to do the instaling and he only has to use the machine. Therefore, instaling is an end-user task.

Did you watch Spider man 2 on ur Mac aryayush..
"With great power comes great responsibility..".
so to have the complete control of your system, you must be ready to do some things atleast. I don't think a MAC allows you "complete control" over your system.

They have not even mastered those effects yet.

that is going to change. of course they haven't mastered it. but that doesn't mean they aren't good or not nice.

What does Microsoft know about good interface design!

thats something to cheer

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by caleb in the topic "Mandriva 2007 Questions Of A Novice"

Before I posted started this thread I went to Mandriva website & also their forum but there was way too much of jaragon (for a newbie to linux like me) to even understand anything.

See? This is the problem with Linux.

Originally Posted by sgireesh

I don't think a MAC allows you "complete control" over your system.

Tell me something you can do as a system-admin on Linux and you think it cannot be done on a Macintosh. Don't give me some crap like 'you can view/modify the source code' or something along those lines. I couldn't care less about the code of the applications I use.

[sgireesh]

Tell me something you can do as a system-admin on Linux and you think it cannot be done on a Macintosh. Don't give me some crap like 'you can view/modify the source code' or something along those lines. I couldn't care less about the code of the applications I use.

I can change my desktop environment....
Login to gnome once, kde next, icewm next, well you get the idea. change of scene.

i could upgrade when i want without getting to worry about my credit card.

Originally Posted by caleb in the topic "Mandriva 2007 Questions Of A Novice"
Before I posted started this thread I went to Mandriva website & also their forum but there was way too much of jaragon (for a newbie to linux like me) to even understand anything.

aryayush, first read how simple it is to configure beryl from the link i gave. also read how to configure compiz that i posted. Then try and get the book

SUSE Linux
By Chris Brown

or boot ubuntu from the live cd and read the example file given. It has some simple and upto the point instructions.

If you cant understand things even after that you probably should get someone to work your computer for you...

Don't give me some crap like 'you can view/modify the source code' or something along those lines.

giving away the source code is not crap aryayush... it is a sense of freedom. Never, ever call that crap..

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aryayush

As if Linux would have been so advanced in four years had it been launched when Apple and MS came out with their first operating systems. No, it wouldn't. It would also have been struggling to find a footing had it been released as a bare-bones OS. But Linus Torvalds must have read some books on software programming and kernel development, or looked up the internet, or gained the knowledge from whichever source he preferred. But the technology was already out there because Apple and Microsoft had done it before. That is the base I am talking about.

Technology was way before Apple and Microsoft had done it. UNIX mother of all OSs. Remember?
If u had read about Linux Torvalds, he just created the kernel because UNIX OS was too expensive for him. So he just created a simple kernel to match the functionalities of OS. He sole task was to maintain the kernel.
Also Linux was primarily meant to be a server OS with more functionalities and applications in Networking field than any other area. But now things are changing with Linux achieving new milestones in Desktop area too.

Is there something wrong with Linux developers reading books on software programming etc? Mac developers also must have read some books to achieve M.Tech degrees first and then written or copied codes for Mac applications. So what so fuzz about it?

Originally Posted by aryayush

You know what, you should accept it gracefully if your preferred platform has some drawbacks, which everything in the world is bound to have. The windows jangling around like a piece of wet cloth when you move them around serves no purpose at all. I have seen it in action so I know what I am talking about. Why should you feel that the desktop is fluid? It's not supposed to be.

Somethings are for eyecandy too. Why is there a genie effect in Mac?? It serves no purpose. I dunno why do u say that it helps in identifying the minimised apps, coz in Linux minimised apps can be identified easily and the rest which are working in background like mp3 player, software installation, downloading etc can be moved to different workspaces. I hope u know what workspace is.
Can u show me some video so as to let me know that genie effect really has some purpose??

Originally Posted by aryayush

Not when either Front Row is activated or you are Command - Tabbing between applications.

Well thats a dissapointing end-users experience then that u have to take snapshots with cellphone for that.
In GNU/Linux u can take snapshot anywhere without any restriction for such kinds of images as u posted!

Originally Posted by aryayush

OK then, can you tell me how you did it? I want to try it out too.

http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Edgy/EyeCandy
http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index....Install/Ubuntu
http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index....ntu/Edgy/AiGLX

Last one was mine for intel!

Originally Posted by aryayush

I even find the transparency in your first screenshot bothersome, and the second one useless. Gotta love the wallpaper though, it's cool. I'm a sucker for high quality three dimensional graphic design.

Yea I luv such kinda of wallapers. Neways the transparency is awesome. It may be bothersome to u, but I find it better than the default UIs with uninteresting looks. Knoppix is an exception coz it has some transparencies enabled by default.
Neways I think it completely depends on the end-user of what he/she likes transparencies, elegancy, crystal effects, glassy effects or whateva. So u may like elegancy, but I like transparency+abstract stuff!

Originally Posted by aryayush

Where does this system-admin come in? On a single-user PC, there is only one person who has to do the instaling and he only has to use the machine. Therefore, instaling is an end-user task.

I understand what u r trying to say. But if u wanna debate for end-users experience then installation is outta topic. Please try to understand the ethics of debate and the various classifications.

There are 3 persons on a Business PC : an admin, a transaction operator, and an end-user. Both have their own meanings. But the work of all the 3 can be done by one person too. But again the total he is doing is for installation, transactions, playing games and njoying the UIs and listening to music etc i.e the work of admin,operator and end-user. U cannot say he is an end-user alone.

I hope u got my point now. Please don't make me repeat such simple concepts again n again as it becomes very uninteresting and demoralising.

Originally Posted by aryayush

I did not like transparency even when I used Windows. I had enabled it on XP and it sucked. BTW, there are hacks and applications if you want to enable transparency on Macintosh too. However, the default operating system does not feature them.

Yea I have experienced transparencies on windows and yea I agree they are no where near Linux counterparts.
Neways if u don't like transparencies, then it doesn't mean the rest of Mac users and Linux and windows users too don't like it. So its dissappointing as an end-users experience for Mac.

Originally Posted by aryayush

BTW, Mac OS X (and even Windows) has a feature called click lock. You don't have to keep the mouse button pressed to drag a file around.

I know that mouse need not be kept pressed, I have used it but again I find the the keyboard method much efficient than mouse one. And its not somethings about getting used to, its more about efficient computing. There are websites which don't even allow u to right click and all the UI functions are disabled there with the help of javascripts. What will u do for such sites?? Drag and drop?? Try "ctrl + *" method now! Its Much efficient and always working!!

Originally Posted by aryayush

I am speaking out of the amount of experience I have. For example, I know it for a fact that Linux does not have spring-loaded folders and Mac OS X has them, so I am qualified to comment on it.

But I'll recommend that u have some nice experience of 2-3 yrs first in both the OS's before even comparing and commenting upon them. There are a lotta things u still don't know about Linux and then saying Linux doesn't have this and that. e.g the things showed by @sgireesh and some effects by me and the copying stuff etc. But I'm glad ur acknowledging and accepting the truth.

Originally Posted by aryayush

Paid Linux is the same as free Linux. And if you accept that free Linux is inferior to a Macintosh, then the debate is over. OK. That is what I have been trying to tell you.

Who said so?? Please goto proprietary Linux sites and then tell if propreitary Linux is same as free ones.
And I'm not saying free linux is inferior to propreitary. How can u even imagine such a thing and bring such an absurd statement here??
U like everything to be installed in default installation, thats why I brought propreitary Linux in picture specially for u. Otherwise for the person who knows about the classification of users on the basis of their task, I wudn't even have to narrate him the differences between such users and make him understand that installation is not a part of end-user. But u can't understand such a simple concept. And then saying its "inferior, debate is over"??

Is Mac inferior coz it doesn't have office suite installed by default? It may not be much of a use for kids who like tp play games. But it is of extreme imprtance for students and working people. And thats a major setback to end-users experience in ur terminology who can't understand installation isn't a task of end-users.

Please try to debate without ur fanboyism and biaseness and u'll understand the whole lotta classifications and their meanings.

I hope u don't count fanboyism into personal comments. Even admins here with yellow coloured nicknames use it freely.

Originally Posted by aryayush

OK. I didn't know that. Sorry for the mistake!

Thats what I meant. Please have some good 2-3 yrs experience on Linux, know the classifications, the various differences like ones in paid and free distros and then compare and comment!

Neways I request u to please read the history of Linux,Mac and windows and history of computing and then compare and comment which one had a base and all.

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by sgireesh

I can change my desktop environment....
Login to gnome once, kde next, icewm next, well you get the idea. change of scene.

I knew you could say only this. Well, I don't know a single Mac user who has ever expressed a wish to change the UI of Mac OS X, so that would be a pretty useless feature to provide. Plus, you can use software like ShapeShifter to change the theme if you want to. I tried it once, but I like the default theme so much that I reverted back to it.

Originally Posted by sgireesh

i could upgrade when i want without getting to worry about my credit card.

What does being (or not being) the system-admin have to do anything with it?

Originally Posted by sgireesh

aryayush, first read how simple it is to configure beryl from the link i gave.

It is easy only on Mandriva and Fedora Core 6 because they come bundled with support for XGL/Compiz. The process for enabling those effects on Ubuntu or OpenSUSE is much more difficult. At least, that's what I gathered from the various tutorials I have read.

Originally Posted by sgireesh

or boot ubuntu from the live cd and read the example file given. It has some simple and upto the point instructions.

I did not get your point. What example file?

Originally Posted by sgireesh

If you cant understand things even after that you probably should get someone to work your computer for you...

I'll have you know that I am very competent with a computer. I am the best among my family and friends. My brother called me from Siliguri to Kolkata for a software he is getting developed and I made a lot of contribution to the project. So please do not doubt my ability with a computer. My extensive knowledge of computer software is my most prized asset. (Of course, I know very little actual coding and am probably bested by many users here, but I would like to believe that I am well above the average computer user.)

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aryayush

I knew you could say only this. Well, I don't know a single Mac user who has ever expressed a wish to change the UI of Mac OS X, so that would be a pretty useless feature to provide. Plus, you can use software like ShapeShifter to change the theme if you want to. I tried it once, but I like the default theme so much that I reverted back to it.

Thats just an excuse! U mean Mac doesn't even have options for window managers?? Thats terribly dissapointing.
Its well known fact that mood of a person changes with climate and happening in surroundings. He likes to experience different things and not the same old thing which looks more dull after sometime.
U mean Mac has only one window manager to decorate and stare at?? Thats again dissapointing for end-users!

Originally Posted by aryayush

It is easy only on Mandriva and Fedora Core 6 because they come bundled with support for XGL/Compiz. The process for enabling those effects on Ubuntu or OpenSUSE is much more difficult. At least, that's what I gathered from the various tutorials I have read.

So what?? Previously u were saying that they have to be installed separately. I already told I prefer Ubuntu and fedora, some people might prefer Mandriva. Fight is between Mac and Linux, why are u being specific to a particular distro?? All distros aren't the same, Fedora is montrously bundled and Ubuntu is lightly bundled. Will u say Linux doesn't come bundled with enough apps??
Thats the real pleasure, that the competition between varous linux vendors is so great that we end-users experience different things with the release of each new distro.

I didn't know XGL/compiz come bundled with FC6 and mandriva coz I still use Fedora 5 on desktop. Anyways that enhances my argument of end-users experience even more. What say??

Originally Posted by aryayush

I'll have you know that I am very competent with a computer. I am the best among my family and friends. My brother called me from Siliguri to Kolkata for a software he is getting developed and I made a lot of contribution to the project. So please do not doubt my ability with a computer. My extensive knowledge of computer software is my most prized asset. (Of course, I know very little actual coding and am probably bested by many users here, but I would like to believe that I am well above the average computer user.)

U have extensive knowledge but its surprising that u still don't know that installation isn't counted in the task of end-user.

meditator, u r in luck

I just saw a movie, the devil wears Prada, fantastic one....andrea is hot...

anyway, back to point, in this movie, there is a scene of just a few seconds showing the geenie effect in one of the computer she was working on, i cut the video here it is

http://rapidshare.com/files/5436359/...ffect.mp4.html

Quicktime H.264 format, i hope it playes on linux, cos it will on Windows & Mac
__________

Originally Posted by mediator

Thats just an excuse! U mean Mac doesn't even have options for window managers?? Thats terribly dissapointing.
Its well known fact that mood of a person changes with climate and happening in surroundings..

No wonder...when u r in love, the blue & White theme of Mac changes to White & Pink

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by mediator

I hope u know what workspace is.

Why do you keep posting statements like this one?
'I hope you know what this is.', 'I hope you know what that is.'
I USE virtual desktops and I do not need anyone to instruct me what a workspace is about. If I cannot understand some terminology, I will look it up or ask you, you don't need to keep 'hoping' that I know the words you use.

Originally Posted by mediator

Somethings are for eyecandy too. Why is there a genie effect in Mac?? It serves no purpose. I dunno why do u say that it helps in identifying the minimised apps, coz in Linux minimised apps can be identified easily and the rest which are working in background like mp3 player, software installation, downloading etc can be moved to different workspaces. I hope u know what workspace is.
Can u show me some video so as to let me know that genie effect really has some purpose??

I already replied to this and I am not sitting here to spoon-feed anyone. There are plenty of videos on YouTube. Do a simple search and check 'em out.

Originally Posted by mediator

Well thats a dissapointing end-users experience then that u have to take snapshots with cellphone for that.

You cannot take a screenshot while 'Alt - Tabbing' on either Linux (I checked out Ubuntu) or Windows. The least you can do before posting something is try it out. It would have hardly taken a few seconds.
And how does not being able to take a screenshot on two particular instances make the end-user experience less than satisfying? The support for taking screenshots on Macintosh is much more versatile than any other OS. You can virtually take a screenshot of any activity.
In Ubuntu, I cannot even take a screenshot while I am dragging something.

Originally Posted by mediator

In GNU/Linux u can take snapshot anywhere without any restriction for such kinds of images as u posted!

Try doing that while dragging something or 'Alt +Tabbing' between windows.

Talking about 'Alt + Tab' switching, you cannot use the mouse while using 'Alt + Tab' on Ubuntu. You cannot even close windows without bringing them to the foreground. On Mac, you can use the mouse and quit or hide the applications while using 'Command + Tab'.

Originally Posted by mediator

http://ubuntuguide.org/wiki/Ubuntu:Edgy/EyeCandy
http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index....Install/Ubuntu
http://wiki.beryl-project.org/index....ntu/Edgy/AiGLX

Last one was mine for intel!

Show that to any regular computer user. The last thing they will say is that it is easy.

Originally Posted by mediator

I understand what u r trying to say. But if u wanna debate for end-users experience then installation is outta topic. Please try to understand the ethics of debate and the various classifications.

There are 3 persons on a Business PC : an admin, a transaction operator, and an end-user. Both have their own meanings. But the work of all the 3 can be done by one person too. But again the total he is doing is for installation, transactions, playing games and njoying the UIs and listening to music etc i.e the work of admin,operator and end-user. U cannot say he is an end-user alone.

I hope u got my point now. Please don't make me repeat such simple concepts again n again as it becomes very uninteresting and demoralising.

Sorry for not following the rules, sir - but please don't fail me in the examinations!
You do this every time. The moment you run out of points to make, you start saying that the topic is not within the 'ethics' of debate.
All I know is that I am the sole user of my computer. I have to do whatever is to be done on it. Therefore, if I want to instal anything on my computer, I have to do it myself. Tell me one thing, do you call some technician every time you want to instal something on your OS? Or do you not consider yourself to be an end-user?

Originally Posted by mediator

Yea I have experienced transparencies on windows and yea I agree they are no where near Linux counterparts.
Neways if u don't like transparencies, then it doesn't mean the rest of Mac users and Linux and windows users too don't like it. So its dissappointing as an end-users experience for Mac.

Originally Posted by aryayush

TW, there are hacks and applications if you want to enable transparency on Macintosh too.

Originally Posted by mediator

I know that mouse need not be kept pressed, I have used it but again I find the the keyboard method much efficient than mouse one. And its not somethings about getting used to, its more about efficient computing. There are websites which don't even allow u to right click and all the UI functions are disabled there with the help of javascripts. What will u do for such sites?? Drag and drop?? Try "ctrl + *" method now! Its Much efficient and always working!!

No website can block you from dragging its contents anywhere. I have only ever come across sites that block right clicking and drag-and-drop does not involve right-clicking at all. Before getting used to a Macintosh, I found drag-and-drop cumbersome too. Now I find it cumbersome to use copy-paste.

Originally Posted by mediator

Please try to debate without ur fanboyism and biaseness and u'll understand the whole lotta classifications and their meanings.

Oh, and you are being totally objective and open to criticism? Yeah, I can see that.

[subratabera]

Oh, I think you are working too hard to show us the geenie effect on your Mac!!! Here I am to the rescue...
Use Wink (basically a Linux product ). Using Wink you can create content viewable across the web. Similar applications sell for hundreds of dollars, while Wink is free with unrivaled features...With Wink you can actually record your desktop events and then save them as individual images or a merged flash animation...



Hope this help...

[mediator]

Originally Posted by gxsaurav

meditator, u r in luck

I just saw a movie, the devil wears Prada, fantastic one....andrea is hot...

anyway, back to point, in this movie, there is a scene of just a few seconds showing the geenie effect in one of the computer she was working on, i cut the video here it is

http://rapidshare.com/files/5436359/...ffect.mp4.html

Quicktime H.264 format, i hope it playes on linux, cos it will on Windows & Mac
__________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mediator
Thats just an excuse! U mean Mac doesn't even have options for window managers?? Thats terribly dissapointing.
Its well known fact that mood of a person changes with climate and happening in surroundings..


No wonder...when u r in love, the blue & White theme of Mac changes to White & Pink

lol


Is that it in the genie effect on Mac?? Uhh well, what I heard all the way was some exaggeration then.

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by mediator

So what?? Previously u were saying that they have to be installed separately. I already told I prefer Ubuntu and fedora, some people might prefer Mandriva. Fight is between Mac and Linux, why are u being specific to a particular distro?? All distros aren't the same, Fedora is montrously bundled and Ubuntu is lightly bundled. Will u say Linux doesn't come bundled with enough apps??
Thats the real pleasure, that the competition between varous linux vendors is so great that we end-users experience different things with the release of each new distro.

But you cannot keep changing your operating system every now and then, can you? That is why I requested at the beginning of the thread to argue your points keeping any particular distro in mind. Of course, if you count the features of all the distros combined, the Mac or Windows might never be able to compare to Linux. You are counting the whole of Linux (all distros included) as a single entity, but you cannot run all the distros together, can you? So if you are debating about Ubuntu, don't say that it is easy to install the XGL effects or if you are centering on Mandriva, don't say that Ubuntu is good at this thing and that thing, etc. Get my point? You cannot compare one operating system (Mac OS X Tiger) to the whole of Linux, you just can't.
__________

Originally Posted by mediator

lol


Is that it in the genie effect on Mac?? Uhh well, what I heard all the way was some exaggeration then.

You have to see it with 'Shift' pressed (in slow motion) to see the effect.

[subratabera]

But you cannot keep changing your operating system every now and then, can you? That is why I requested at the beginning of the thread to argue your points keeping any particular distro in mind. Of course, if you count the features of all the distros combined, the Mac or Windows might never be able to compare to Linux. You are counting the whole of Linux (all distros included) as a single entity, but you cannot run all the distros together, can you? So if you are debating about Ubuntu, don't say that it is easy to install the XGL effects or if you are centering on Mandriva, don't say that Ubuntu is good at this thing and that thing, etc. Get my point? You cannot compare one operating system (Mac OS X Tiger) to the whole of Linux, you just can't.

Yes he can!!! Because every new software can be installed on any Linux distro with a little effort (except few, such as SELinux in Fedora is unique). For example Beryl can be installed on any distro you like...not just a specific distro. Linux is a community effort and any good invention which makes the user experience better is implemented in every Linux distro. That's why features from any Linux distro can be given as an example IMHO...

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aryayush

Why do you keep posting statements like this one?
'I hope you know what this is.', 'I hope you know what that is.'
I USE virtual desktops and I do not need anyone to instruct me what a workspace is about. If I cannot understand some terminology, I will look it up or ask you, you don't need to keep 'hoping' that I know the words you use.

Why r u getting annoyed?? U dudn't even know that installation isn't task of end-users and here u were starting a thread for end-users, u didn't even know the simple difference between paid and free linux distros etc. So I have to be sure when I talk of new points in my posts.

Originally Posted by aryayush

I already replied to this and I am not sitting here to spoon-feed anyone. There are plenty of videos on YouTube. Do a simple search and check 'em out.

Well ilife or wateva that video editing software be, i thought u might be able to give me glimpse of it and some end-user's experience. U may take the video from ur cellphone again! Wat say?

Originally Posted by aryayush

You cannot take a screenshot while 'Alt - Tabbing' on either Linux (I checked out Ubuntu) or Windows. The least you can do before posting something is try it out. It would have hardly taken a few seconds.
And how does not being able to take a screenshot on two particular instances make the end-user experience less than satisfying? The support for taking screenshots on Macintosh is much more versatile than any other OS. You can virtually take a screenshot of any activity.
In Ubuntu, I cannot even take a screenshot while I am dragging something.

Well I can, just press the printscreen. Isn't that simple as end-users experience?? Yea 'alt-tabbing' snap cannot be done, but dragging snap can be done way easily.

Originally Posted by aryayush

Talking about 'Alt + Tab' switching, you cannot use the mouse while using 'Alt + Tab' on Ubuntu. You cannot even close windows without bringing them to the foreground. On Mac, you can use the mouse and quit or hide the applications while using 'Command + Tab'.

Well I didn't try such thing on Ubuntu, will try it later. But here right now I can easily move my mouse while using 'alt-tab' on fedora 5.

Originally Posted by aryayush

Show that to any regular computer user. The last thing they will say is that it is easy.

Gaash! Installation isn't a task of end-users brother. Do I have to repeat the whole thing again for u??

Neways most people in Open Source section see it as nobrainer and remark it as easy. U may keep a close watch in Open Source section. I guess ur still not out of ur biasness towards Mac.

I request u to never discuss on this topic in real debates face to face coz u still repeat such things about end-users even when I enlightened u about the classifications more than a dozen times now.

Originally Posted by aryayush

Sorry for not following the rules, sir - but please don't fail me in the examinations!
You do this every time. The moment you run out of points to make, you start saying that the topic is not within the 'ethics' of debate.
All I know is that I am the sole user of my computer. I have to do whatever is to be done on it. Therefore, if I want to instal anything on my computer, I have to do it myself. Tell me one thing, do you call some technician every time you want to instal something on your OS? Or do you not consider yourself to be an end-user?

It seems from ur posts that ur geting impatient and jealous and are about to flame me now.

But yes u r doing terrible in ur exams. U r repeating things again n again not conforming to "ethics" of debate. Its not me who has run outta point, everyone here can see that who has actually run outta points. U r the one who has seen both Mac and Linux and started this thread. So everyone expects u to talk sensibly and give some comments about the comparison without any fanboyism or biasness. Its only u who can introduce new points, all of us can only mark if its correct for Linux or windows since u also bringing windows in this Mac Vs linux thread.

About the highlighted part, its very surprising that u r still repeating and can't understand a simple concept even when I gave u an example. Even an american can understand such things. All the people, even a kid can understand such things and agree to it. But u r still.....?? How much time will it take u to understand such a simple concept. I told u to read SE books or some references to IEEE etc. U haven't even done that and r arguing with me unnecessarily.

Originally Posted by aryayush

TW, there are hacks and applications if you want to enable transparency on Macintosh too.

What kinda of hacks in closed ource software??

Originally Posted by aryayush

Oh, and you are being totally objective and open to criticism? Yeah, I can see that.

Yes, everybody here can see who is being a fanboy and who is saying "I didn't know that" here again n again in a field he thinks he is acquainted well enough in.

[subratabera]

Originally Posted by mail2and

BTW, a bare-bones Mac Mini costs 32-33k.

Originally Posted by aryayush

But you cannot carry it to the office with you, can you!

How can you carry this thing with you in the office!!!

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by subratabera

Yes he can!!! Because every new software can be installed on any Linux distro with a little effort (except few, such as SELinux in Fedora is unique). For example Beryl can be installed on any distro you like...not just a specific distro. Linux is a community effort and any good invention which makes the user experience better is implemented in every Linux distro. That's why features from any Linux distro can be given as an example IMHO...

Suppose you have Ubuntu installed and have fifty software installed on it. A new version of Mandriva comes out in a month's time. Will you install it and then re-install all your applications?
Plus, suppose there is a feature you like in Mandriva and another you really love in Ubuntu, can you run both at the same time?
If I was asked these two questions, my answer would be 'No'. So how can I comapre the features of many different operating systems combined against a single one?

Originally Posted by mediator

Well I can, just press the printscreen. Isn't that simple as end-users experience?? Yea 'alt-tabbing' snap cannot be done, but dragging snap can be done way easily.

I don't have a 'Print Screen' key, so I changed the shortcut to various key combinations but I did not manage to take a screenshot while dragging something.

Originally Posted by mediator

Well I didn't try such thing on Ubuntu, will try it later. But here right now I can easily move my mouse while using 'alt-tab' on fedora 5.

By not being able to use the mouse, I did not mean that the mouse refused to function. I mean that when you are using 'Alt + Tab', you should be able to move your mouse in either horizontal direction to move the selection around instead of repeatedly pressing the 'Tab' key. You cannot do that on Ubuntu (and I don't think you can do so on Fedora Core either).

Originally Posted by mediator

It seems from ur posts that ur geting impatient and jealous

Jealous of what!

Originally Posted by mediator

About the highlighted part, its very surprising that u r still repeating and can't understand a simple concept even when I gave u an example.

Your example is of just one particular situation which is of a business that has three users assigned for various tasks.
But I am sitting here alone in my house using Ubuntu and I want to see some classy effects on it. So I will have to install XGL, right? And I am the end user here, right? So an end user has to install it, right?
Suppose you buy a PC for yourself and want to run Linux on it. You will have to install it yourself, won't you? And you are the end user, aren't you?
I don't even know what you are trying to prove by this silly debate. Just trying to justify the fact that it is totally fine for the installation of some nice effects on Ubuntu to be a hell of a task to achieve.
__________

Originally Posted by subratabera

How can you carry this thing with you in the office!!!

LOL! Reminds me of the time when I was too small to read text and just used to stare at the pictures in comic books. If you took the pain to find the picture of a Mac Mini, the least you could have done was look up what size it is. It is no larger than a standard tiffin box and weighs in at a modest 1.31 kg. It is 'just 6.5 inches square and 2 inches small'. I am sure you should have no trouble carrying something that small with you to your office (or wherever you wish to carry it to).

[subratabera]

Originally Posted by aryayush

Suppose you have Ubuntu installed and have fifty software installed on it. A new version of Mandriva comes out in a month's time. Will you install it and then re-install all your applications?
Plus, suppose there is a feature you like in Mandriva and another you really love in Ubuntu, can you run both at the same time?
If I was asked these two questions, my answer would be 'No'. So how can I comapre the features of many different operating systems combined against a single one?

Well, every major feature is frequently added to the repositories of any Linux distro. If you love a feature of Mandriva and want it on Ubuntu (except for some basic unique native features) you can definitely find something alike for Ubuntu also or wait for it to be updated for Ubuntu repositories. Every new edition includes many new upgrades which comes from different platforms. That's the magic of open-source. Nothing is hidden from us...

[mehulved]

Originally Posted by aryayush

It is easy only on Mandriva and Fedora Core 6 because they come bundled with support for XGL/Compiz. The process for enabling those effects on Ubuntu or OpenSUSE is much more difficult. At least, that's what I gathered from the various tutorials I have read.

It's not bundled out of the box with most distros cos still the 3D desktops aren't stable, once they will be, all distros will start incorporating them out of the box soon enough.

Originally Posted by aryayush

I did not get your point. What example file?

It's link is there on the desktop of the Live CD. I can't remember exact location to it rite now.

[subratabera]

LOL! Reminds me of the time when I was too small to read text and just used to stare at the pictures in comic books. If you took the pain to find the picture of a Mac Mini, the least you could have done was look up what size it is. It is no larger than a standard tiffin box and weighs in at a modest 1.31 kg. It is 'just 6.5 inches square and 2 inches small'. I am sure you should have no trouble carrying something that small with you to your office (or wherever you wish to carry it to).

But where is the screen...

[praka123]

ubuntu's example contents are in /usr/share/example-content/

[mehulved]

Originally Posted by subratabera

But where is the screen...

Screen is at office. AFAIK, Macs don't include screen, that is to be bought separately.

[subratabera]

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

Screen is at office. AFAIK, Macs don't include screen, that is to be bought separately.

And the keyboard should be in the bathroom, and the mouse in canteen...And the UPS must be in the managers room. BTW can it be directly plug into power or we need a separate adapter for that also...

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by tech_your_future

Screen is at office. AFAIK, Macs don't include screen, that is to be bought separately.

Actually, the Mac Mini and the Mac Pros do not include screens. iMacs and the Mac Portables(MacBook and MacBook Pro), however, do include screens.
__________

Originally Posted by subratabera

And the keyboard should be in the bathroom, and the mouse in canteen...And the UPS must be in the managers room. BTW can it be directly plug into power or we need a separate adapter for that also...

The mouse is in the chairman's bedroom. What's your point?

[mehulved]

OK me and andy have agreed that this is going nowhere. So, I have locked this thread, no point in letting it go any further.