*** Science Or God? ***

[cyberscriber]

me too an atheist..

Cheers
__________

Originally Posted by xyzsuhas

Both God & religion are concepts formulated by man(You dont see animals going to temples or singing prayers). God was created to explain things for which man did not have any answers. Religion is something personal which man believes in to keep himself in control, disciplined, and free from bad habits.

to be precise, God is greatest invention of man
__________

Originally Posted by planetcall

Galileo made the Tlelescope.....isnt it? Yes, he did but how did indians knew of other planets since centuries ?

Our own indians also said that something is eating the moon and sun during eclipses ( and probably sh***ing after that ). Dont tell this to Americans, they'll laugh at us even more.

[planetcall]

^^^

You may be one of those maniacs who eye AMERICA for their every comparison.
What do you mean by "they will laugh at us even more". Lol you sit in your couch thinking about how to stop americans from laughing at us. Did you ever try to think or ponder over the topic we are discussing over and do a little research over it before giving you such a lame remark? Your last sentence itself shows your attitude towards yourself and the great civilization you are a part of.
Because of that last sentence above post is not worth replying to!

[mediator]

^^^^ Absolutely correct!
@cyberscriber : "Inferiority Complex" is the disease I'll say ur suffering from and feel wheneva u see an American or a white skinned guy standing in front of u or around u!! Ur still not free from such psychological complex! Do u form ur outlooks like that normally by thinking what americans will say?? Don't u have ur own independent outlook!!

Well ur an atheist! So u shud also know that most of these Americans are Christians and follow their religions like most other religious people do! They also have theories like earth created in 6 days by "God"!!

I know u'll ponder about that coz its more "American" and laugh at similar things associated with ur own religion.

Neways I find Americans much puny as compared to Indians.

[Lucky_star]

Those who say Science is mightier:
Why don't they create a "human" from their Scientific innovations??
Mankind doesn't have an answer to many hidden mysteries. He has control over only a certain number of Parameters, rest is beyond his scope. When anything unnatural happens we try to link it as one of the deeds of God. Even doctors say before an operation that they have 99% of success in their hands; they leave the rest 1% with God. Why do they say so? There is ofcourse a superpower called God which will always remains above the defintions which Science can give...

[cyberscriber]

@planetcall
Jus recall what you have posted before replying.

Originally Posted by planetcall

We are not being told the greatness of our culture rather we are being shown the greatness of the west and the modern scientific society.

Is these crappy superstitions were the greatness of our culture to be told??
So all these days you were researching those useless superstitions? lol.

I know that Indians were rulers and Europeans were ape men centuries ago. Then why did India became a poor country? Thats because of these superstitions and religious dominations. Help India to develop economy, technology and education. Don't pass these superstitions to coming generations to follow.

I suggest you a few useful topics to research -> Evolution, Universe, Big bang and Darvin's Principle.

IMAO,
GOD ( which is invented by man ) IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL EVILS
__________

Originally Posted by mediator

^^^^ Absolutely correct!
@cyberscriber : "Inferiority Complex" is the disease I'll say ur suffering from and feel wheneva u see an American or a white skinned guy standing in front of u or around u!! Ur still not free from such psychological complex! Do u form ur outlooks like that normally by thinking what americans will say?? Don't u have ur own independent outlook!!

Well ur an atheist! So u shud also know that most of these Americans are Christians and follow their religions like most other religious people do! They also have theories like earth created in 6 days by "God"!!

I know u'll ponder about that coz its more "American" and laugh at similar things associated with ur own religion.

Neways I find Americans much puny as compared to Indians.

I never said i'm attracted to Americans. We are more intelligent than them. But also we have these superstitions spreading like disease.
__________

Originally Posted by Lucky_star

Those who say Science is mightier:
Why don't they create a "human" from their Scientific innovations??
Mankind doesn't have an answer to many hidden mysteries. He has control over only a certain number of Parameters, rest is beyond his scope. When anything unnatural happens we try to link it as one of the deeds of God. Even doctors say before an operation that they have 99% of success in their hands; they leave the rest 1% with God. Why do they say so? There is ofcourse a superpower called God which will always remains above the defintions which Science can give...

Doctors are not scientists. They are also one among us, and brought up with the same beliefs. And the reason they say like that is comfort them psychologically.

[OPTUMS PRIME]

God Made A Super Computer Is World And We Are A Component.he Can Overclock Every Thing And When He Want To Restart Or Shut Down The System (world)then He Can Do It Very Easily.he Is Matchless & Wordless. I Have No Words To Say About Him.

Thanks

[Lucky_star]

Originally Posted by cyberscriber

@planetcall
Jus recall what you have posted before replying.



Is these crappy superstitions were the greatness of our culture to be told??
So all these days you were researching those useless superstitions? lol.

I know that Indians were rulers and Europeans were ape men centuries ago. Then why did India became a poor country? Thats because of these superstitions and religious dominations. Help India to develop economy, technology and education. Don't pass these superstitions to coming generations to follow.

I suggest you a few useful topics to research -> Evolution, Universe, Big bang and Darvin's Principle.

IMAO,
GOD ( which is invented by man ) IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF ALL EVILS
__________

I never said i'm attracted to Americans. We are more intelligent than them. But also we have these superstitions spreading like disease.
__________

Doctors are not scientists. They are also one among us, and brought up with the same beliefs. And the reason they say like that is comfort them psychologically.

Have You ever been in a situation where you relied on God? If you did, then why??

[cyberscriber]

Originally Posted by Lucky_star

Have You ever been in a situation where you relied on God? If you did, then why??

I never relied on god. If anything is out of control, man tend to believe god, which may in turn comfort him psychologically. But i'm not so.

[planetcall]

Mr Cyberscriber ! I need not reply to you as I already have posted enough in this thread which you didnt cater to read before posting and which already replies to your attitude towards something which you know not a single bit. Try to evolve beyond the school books and develop an independent way of thinking. Before you comment on , go through what others are saying. Instead of this crib if you would have commented over what proofs I and others have given in favour of topic then it would have been more appreciable. I hope your next post is going to be an intelligent reply.

[Lucky_star]

Originally Posted by planetcall

Mr Cyberscriber ! I need not reply to you as I already have posted enough in this thread which you didnt cater to read before posting and which already replies to your attitude towards something which you know not a single bit. Try to evolve beyond the school books and develop an independent way of thinking. Before you comment on , go through what others are saying. Instead of this crib if you would have commented over what proofs I and others have given in favour of topic then it would have been more appreciable. I hope your next post is going to be an intelligent reply.

You got my point!

[cyberscriber]

Originally Posted by planetcall

Mr Cyberscriber ! I need not reply to you as I already have posted enough in this thread which you didnt cater to read before posting and which already replies to your attitude towards something which you know not a single bit. Try to evolve beyond the school books and develop an independent way of thinking. Before you comment on , go through what others are saying. Instead of this crib if you would have commented over what proofs I and others have given in favour of topic then it would have been more appreciable. I hope your next post is going to be an intelligent reply.

Mr planetcall! Try to evolve beyond beliefs and develop an independent way of thinking. These proofs (as you say) are just manuscripts written by people some 1000 to 5000 years ago. And they did that to form a political community in the name of religion. These writings include, the bible, quran, or ramayana or whatever. You call them proofs?? I believe there are No scientific proofs.
This reply is intelligent enough!

[ratedrsuperstar]

scientology is the best but no one before GOD but i don't give a damn for any religion any religious rituals

[iMav]

cyberscriber i think u just called the ramayana a work of fiction well if its so then i guess its the best selling fiction novell in human historybesdides proove to me tht none of wat is wriiten is true

il give an example might sound absurd to some but think abt it:

today man is using a bluetooth device which is cordless small in size to talk to some1 in another end of the world v hav cams tht transmit sumthing in outer space to earth y is it not possible for a blind man to see the happenings of war in another end of the world

[mediator]

Originally Posted by cyberscriber

Mr planetcall! Try to evolve beyond beliefs and develop an independent way of thinking. These proofs (as you say) are just manuscripts written by people some 1000 to 5000 years ago. And they did that to form a political community in the name of religion. These writings include, the bible, quran, or ramayana or whatever. You call them proofs?? I believe there are No scientific proofs.
This reply is intelligent enough!

U need proofs?? Read this carefully!! U might not be believing what Indians say, but it seems u like to believe wat americans say. The prrofs are there supported by scientific explanations!!

Yea there are superstitions and thats what happens when epics like these are told by one generation to next. Twistings are produced!! Read a full fledged Mahabharata,Ramayana written in Sanskrit to remove all ur superstitions coz words loose their meaning when translated from mighty Sanskrit,Hindi,any Indian Language to puny English language.

Neways some 1000-5000 years after people like u might think that Gandhiji was also a fictitious story character! Thats the human nature!

Originally Posted by cyberscriber

I know that Indians were rulers and Europeans were ape men centuries ago. Then why did India became a poor country? Thats because of these superstitions and religious dominations. Help India to develop economy, technology and education. Don't pass these superstitions to coming generations to follow.

I suggest you a few useful topics to research -> Evolution, Universe, Big bang and Darvin's Principle.

I have never seen neone who believes in science being superstitous! The richness of our culture was there. The proof is there. The Amercian's opinion that u consider so much before forming ur own is there. The whole world has evidences based on scientifics facts now. So read em. Read the link I gave!
Its OK to question, but before giving ur expert comments u shud read India's history and timeline, how things changed, violence was there, Mughals razed temples,scriptures,idols,paintings etc and then came ur fellow foreigners!! So read India's history and get enlightened how it got poor and Vedic books destroyed!

Yes we shudn't pass superstitions, but the facts! And u please help India to develop economy, technology and education by thinking beyond what u can see. If the world was filled with such people who cudn't think beyond and kept making expert comments, calling every one idiot whom they didn't believe etc then I'm afraid the world wudn't have been so technologically advanced as its now!! So think whats probablistic and whats possible and think how cud it have happened and relate it to science instead making ur expert opinions! Thats how ur Americans work. So its time u work like em and I promise American's wont laugh!!

Neways Unvierse evolution,Big bang etc if u know aren't facts. They r just theories put forward!! Now don't laugh at them and call em superstitious! Since Big bang seems most probabilistic, we keep on reading about it everywhere! They are not facts yet, but theories trying to become facts!
Likewise Ancients Indians knew much before ur fellow Americans that world was round and about planets (astrology)etc. We have lost much of our ancient books, but some knowledge is still there like Vedic mathematics (complete maths),Ayurveda(complete description of human diseases and cure) . Don't laugh at them again, coz its ur Fellow Amercians who r shocked to see how great these Vedic things are. They r trying to learn about it, read newspapers and u'll knwo what I'm saying. So u better learn about em too! After all u prefer what Americans think rather than what u think!!

So njoy read the link and sources+comments in those sources!! All evidences+ based on scientific facts!!

[sanddy]

ofcourse "GOD" else neither u would have been there nor i

[faraaz]

I voted for the God option, but only because that was the closest thing to what I wanted to say.

Where's the Science + God option?? You do realise that its not a mutually exclusive statement!

Atleast, IMO...there is of course, God in the role of Creator and all that, and science explains how these things happen.

I mean, to quote Pratchett, people ask for proof of God through miracles, but what more do you want than making wine from sunlight? Or water from thin air?? Of course...its all explained through science so apparently its not a miracle...WTF?!? Just cuz you understand the physics/chemistry/biology involved doesn't mean its any less of a miracle! This stuff doesn't happen by chance you know...

So yeah...edit poll!

[planetcall]

faraaz i agree to your stand to certain extent. But I dont agree to see God and Science in segregated manner. Gita stresses on science, also Brahma says that he likes Vigyan more in the various categories of Gyan. So again and again our culture has stressed upon the science and knowledge. It was this firm believe that led to the mighty development of our culture both scientifically and spiritually. I believe, if you have faith in god, you have faith in nature and all its charateristics. Whatever is happening around you is not miracle. It is all bound to the laws of that ultimate creator. But this law, the creator, you and this universe in itself is a miracle. The ultimate truth beyond which there is nothing. The ultimate logic the description of which itself is illogical

[iMav]

^^agree with totally

[Apollo]

I've heard this too many times that religious sentiments can be anti-scientific, be that in certain cases or as a whole. As far as I know, I don't think any religion prohibits its followers from attaining excellency in their karma. Do you?

If at all there is such a line of thinking then it has fallen into dotage.

[faraaz]

If you think about it, all this religion vs. science antagonism came about because of Western ideologies...I mean think about it...

Bible says Earth is in the centre of the Earth and poor Kepler & Copernicus and Galileo et. al burned for it...

Quran and Vedas and all were light years ahead cuz they kept saying the correct stuff all along ANYWAY!

Also...its the Americans/UK'ers who keep arguing against science and religion being co-existing schools of thought because their social background dictates that...

So if you think about it, this stuff doesn't REALLY apply to Indian theology, which is based on science in the first place...

MERA BHARAT MAHAAN!

[iMav]

west always wants to proove and insist tht it is way ahead of others

[Apollo]

Originally Posted by jal_desai

There is no point in considering science and paranormal science as two different entities.... they are same but what i think is .... paranormal science is forward than logical science....

Proofs to support me:

((1)). every thing tht we see today WAS there in the past... we know tht in mahabharata, dhritirashtra had 100 sons (kauravas)... a female cannot give birth to 100 sons and what about the age difference beetween the first and the last son (logic lagaao!) it should be minimum 100 yrs right?????? wrong... because they used some techniques in the form of rituals which we now know as --- CLONING..... Kauravas were the example of HUMAN CLONING

((2)) We also know tht Agatsya (a mahabharata character) was born in a pot... (ghada) .. --- A Perfect Example of TEST TUBE BABY.

((3)) In Ramayan, the evil RAVAN had a swan-like plane tht used to defy gravity and go in to the air.... so we have a proof tht the LAWS OF AERODYNAMICS WERE PRESENT AT THT TIME...

((4)) In Mahabharata and Ramayan it is written tht when, during a war, a person would shoot an arrow then various kinds of outcome would occur... they were using mantras to affect the other party.... AN EXAMPLE OF HAND-HELD MISSILES which are on the verge to become popular in military nowadays.

((5)) In mahabharata, during the final war, SANJEEV (--saarthi of dhritarashtra) was given a boon to SEE the war while sittin home and narrate it to blind rajah...... --- AN OBVIOUS EXAMPLE OF RADAR/TELEVISION (DOORDARSHAN to be very precise)...... (and now we say tht JOHN LOGIE BAIRD was the inventor of TV...?? HUH)



so, these technologies were present thousands of yrs ago.... but they were rediscovered again...
OTHER INVENTION, THT I THINK, WILL TAKE PLACE IN FUTURE IS TO GET INVISIBLE....
In those epics there is a mention about ppl dissapering at one place and appearing at some other place the very moment.... tht technology is yet to be discovered...


LOGICAL SCIENCE is just lagging behind the PARANORMAL SCIENCE... else they both are on the VERY SAME TRACK.


Lets talk about LAWS.

Were not the Laws of Motion there before Newton????

Was not E=mc2 true before einstein actually found it????

Was not light a WAVE or PARTICLE at the time when dinosours roamed on this planet???

Would not 365 days make a year when man just learnt how to light fire???

A famous quote i wud like to put here from the film Men in Black: "1500 YEARS AGO EVERYBODY KNEW THT EARTH IS FLAT... 500 YEARS AGO EVERYBODY KNEW THT EARTH IS IN THE CENTRE OF THE UNIVERSE... 5 MINS AGO WE ALL KNEW THT WE ARE ALONE...But we were wrong"

Aise to kitne saare laws honge jo abhi tak DISCOVER nahi huye.. they are there .... at this very moment while u are reading this... these undiscovered laws are affecting you.. but AS THEY ARE NOT LOGICALLY DISCOVERED,,,, WE CALL THEM A SUPERNATURAL PHENOMENA....


so as a matter of fact... PARANORMAL SCIENCE , which some of us call GOD... some may call a MATTER OF CHANCE.... or sometimes even LUCK.... this PARANORMAL SCIENCE which we call it today...... will be called LOGICAL SCIENCE in future....

Digitally yours,
Jal

I marvel at your ability to draw parallels between two eras viz. myth and present. The type of technological and medical advancements that are claimed to have been existed then... Wow!

I am not mocking you in condescension. I think such claims are a bit too far-fetched. I'll quote a line from the Holy Bible:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

To have faith in something itself means to believe in something that has no proof, as far as religion goes - one is expected to follow it blindly. A human cannot give birth to 100 offsprings, if nature has its way. Yet making a factual assumption on such myths to draw conclusions, and relating it with modern progressive science defeats the very purpose of having faith in it in the first place. (If Kauravas were cloned, did Gandhari ordered all the physicians/doctors of her time to be executed? The Ayurveda speaks of skin grafts and plastic surgery... did they forget to add pointers on cloning?)

I agree with your views though that the process of scientific discovery and understanding has a long way to go. But I deem it unwise to explore religious scriptures with an intention of finding justifiable scientific answers to certain bygone events.

[planetcall]

^^ Apollo,
I appreciate your post as you have not posted something completely illogical as many others. I would love to reply to your point.
First you have to refine some of your knowledge about vedas. Vedas are not the text of science written in simple paras as we find in modern age text books. They were written by people with exotic talent and it follows the trait of encryption of that time. We have many sanskrit shlokas and sutras well clubbed into tiny rhymes. You know why ? There are many answers to it but for general understanding I would say that it makes it interesting and easy to learn. Veda contains plethora of knowledge all in the form of those sutras. I have cited some examples before in this thread (sapta rashmi...). You have to unearth those hidden knowledge pieces and have to understand it. If you are a lay person like many others then veda itself on first glance seems nothing but chants written to please gods. But there is more to it. People dont know because they never have the motivation or the time to look into it.
Exploration of past for something unbelievable is not completely wrong because you got reasons for it. The reasons which you have to agree. Lets not talk of gandhari and 100 sons. Talk of our astrology. I am taking this example because this tradition has followed until today with many of its ancient science inherited in it. Tell me how they found the planets and its various scientific attributes like angle of axis,speed,rotation and revolution times,color etc. You have to agree that they had this information milleniums before gallileo. They didnt have telescope. So, try to think what could have existed and how it could have lost. Story tells of Duryodhana hiding inside the pond in a bubble after the battle. You see....it is not yet possible but i see it in near future with some advance chemistry involved. Also, see the example of Vedic mathematics. most of it is lost but still we have a few glimpses left of it. Nikhilam Ch and ekadhiken purven , are one of the most powerful sutras in it which are repeated and reused in variety of scenarios. Similar is the case with most of our ancient books. Think buddy. I dont say you agree to me, rather I would ask you to ponder and be logical in your approach.

First i'll ask a question; I stumbled upon this site during my daily misadventuring on the 'net - Is this a predominantly Indian occupied website? If so, you'll have to excuse the presence of my luminous white ass for now, at least until the topic of conversation changes.

Secondly, the brunt of my discussion. I'm not so narrow minded to believe i could offer a complete, comprehensive answer to perhaps the number one question of human kind. However, i will call things how i see them, and the first flaw in the arguement upon this board is this - Science is not in conflict with God, because in order for there to be a debate between the existence of God and science, science's existence would reasonably have to be in question. We all know that science exists, we see it's tangible proof every time we log on to the computer, among countless other activities that indeed rely upon the advances of our technological pursuit.

So for me, it's not a question of science's existence, but *where* science aligns itself with the greater power. I'm a Christian, and i don't mind saying that even though it might garner some opposition from the atheists around. Bluntly speaking, my belief is that God didn't give us science, God gave us analytical minds and a world full of choice - from there it was probably inevitable that science would come to fruition. I believe that the presence of science in our world leads to the conclusion that our scientific journey of discovery is intended to lead us to the existence of God. Believe it or not, there's an increasingly popular school of thought among some scientists that practiced atheism for the majority of their scientific careers that, at the end of their life's work they draw a personal conclusion; Divine Intelligence is the only viable answer to all the ominous questions surrounding our existence. I would tend to agree.

It's a sweeping generalisation of the topic at hand, but it's one that allows me to live my life without pondering unanswerable questions on a daily basis. Faith isn't about having tangible proof; The proof for me came when i really questioned what my beliefs were, peeled back all the levels of subconsious padding that my negative life experiences had put up and discovered at the very core of my existence was a soul. And there isn't a question penetrating enough that could make me question God's existence after an experience like that.

J.P.

[planetcall]

What is Science ??? It is the law of GOD. We can think of it as the rules defined by the almighty for the events to happen in this universe. See how one event is related to each other. Now we know that a coin tossed in air does have an effect on the asteroid near jupiter , though it is negligible or infinitely small but certainly not NULL. Study of Science indeed makes you believe in the ultimate divinity even more. Indian Philosophy has stated it since beginning. The concept of soul and you being a part of that divinity is one of the core concepts of our Civilization. Knowing self is one of the steps towards enlightenment. A body, a chain of reactions, skeleton and the rest doesnt make this body a living object. There is something which is me, the very absence of which makes my body equivalent to any other object of this universe. I am distinct because that very entity exists in me.
Certainly, the concept of the soul is another proof of the existence of GOD. You were blessed to ponder over that question.

[tuxfan]

I have recently read quite a few things on this topic I shall post in detail some day soon when I have time.

Has anyone heard about Pascal's Wager? In addition to Wikipedia, there is a lot of material on this topic. Google it up. It gave me 300,000 links on the topic.

Hinduism has all the answers. God in Christian sense the father who came to earth and screwed a virgin is false. That means god is man and so we are discriminating women. ALL BASED ON FALSE BELIEFS AND FALSE FAITHS. OURS IS THE MOTHER OF ALL FAITHS. OF COURSE TODAY IT HAS BECOME CORRUPTED AND SPOILT SO I AM AN ATHIEST.

[faraaz]

^^ - Bit overarching, aren't we?

[planetcall]

Poon, I would like to tell you that we are discussing over the existence of god and the concept of it that we all have. In this context, it would not be good if we start commenting over religions. There are certain things in every religion that might seem unacceptable to someone but we should not criticize it openly as you did. Indeed our religion is for all ("SANATAN DHARM") but it doesnt mean that people cant pursue their own faiths. Our religion has not been corrupted but yes, the stagnation it has reached to is detrimental. We will have to choose the evolutionary path so that we continue to flourish. Thatswhy I say, for the progress and prosperity we need to see towards our past and learn from it.
As per you, since your religion has spoilt and corrupted so you are an atheist. I dont accept that logic buddy. Try to know what your religion is. Our interpretations can be different. I myself do not believe in idol worship but I dont mind going to temples and or worshiping the idols. Our religion has so many branches and so many paths to salvation. Why dont you look for the one that suits you most ?

[naveen_reloaded]

one thing really sad is that we live in a advanced world and still we believe in myths and rumours.....
why cant we get our hand dirty and see for ourselves there is nothing a thing called GOd exist....and it does in the wold of creativity....

mahabaratha and ramayana are the worlds superior story with all the rich essence and creativity...

why did they create such an epic???

well the answer is simple .... if i tell u to do something...U wont do it...

but if i tell that doing that thing will bring wealth and fortune in ur future..(whether it happens or not is still bound to probabilty) u will definetly do it.....

thats is why they created ...those days people are really ignorant...and to teach is really hard...so there came the creative philosophy...where there is not limit for ur tales...just like harry potter,lord of the rings triology...


do u think harry Potter exist....if u do yes ..u should definetly consult a DOC!!!

if no then u should be damn sure that god also doesnt exist...

GUYS WHERE IS THE REALLY PROOF OF LIFE FOR GOD...???

let us do good thing...WE ARE GOD!!!!