Apple expensive? I don't think so...

[aryayush]

... and here's the reason why.

There are three departments in computer hardware: for home use, office use and on the go. Apple offers the iMac and Mac Mini; Mac Pro; and MacBook and MacBook Pro respectively for the three departments. In this little article, I will justify the price of the Apple 17-inch iMac in comparison to a self assembled PC with similar specs and try to make you, a prospective buyer, see the competitiveness of Apple’s pricing. Read on to see how things are not always as transparent as they might seem!

I have written my first ever article on technology and wouldn't mind if a few people had a look at it. Please click on this sentence to read the article and leave a comment if possible! Thank you!
I have posted this in the 'Fight Club' because this is a debatable topic and I would like to know how many people disagree with me and their reason for doing so.

[eddie]

The cheapest Mac (according to apple's site) is costing 62,900 bucks.
http://www.asia.apple.com/store/indi...Store_iMac.htm
They have also given the specs. Even though I have not updated myself with the price of the hardware lately but an assembled PC with those specs will not cost you more than 40K at the max. I still think Apple is expensive...

[iMav]

apple is not expensive !!!! .... no comments

[kumarmohit]

I dont think Mac is expensive Quality comes @ price

[QwertyManiac]

It certainly isnt 'expensive' but it is definitely higher than other solutions available. And no, you can not game on it fellow gamers

[mail2and]

Aryaayush, I'd recommend you to post your article at forums such as macnn.com, macrumors.com or appleinsider.com. If you want a critical review of your article, which is related to Apple/Macs, you're not likely to get it here. The knowledge about Apple/Macs in this forum is abysmally low.

Most of the people who have replied above haven't even cared to read your article, leave aside reviewing it. Someone said that the cheapest Mac costs 62k. First, the cheapest Mac i.e. Mac Mini costs around 30-32k. Second, the price of iMac mentioned on Apple's India catalog store is MRP. Most dealers, especially the big ones, will sell the computer to you at a lesser price.

What people fail to understand or do not understand is that a branded computer can not compete with an assembled computer. However, the level of support, warranty and consequently, service experience differs. Read about my experience with AppleCare here.

[eddie]

Originally Posted by mail2and

Most of the people who have replied above haven't even cared to read your article, leave aside reviewing it. Someone said that the cheapest Mac costs 62k. First, the cheapest Mac i.e. Mac Mini costs around 30-32k.

...and he talked about Mac Mini in his article? For god's sake man...you can't compare apples to oranges. He was clearly talking about Mac...not Mac mini. Just look at the specs he mentioned. Please read the article again and get the essence of it before flaming everyone

Second, the price of iMac mentioned on Apple's India catalog store is MRP. Most dealers, especially the big ones, will sell the computer to you at a lesser price.

Yes...the dealers will sell it at 40K...sure...why not...may be they will give me one for free :roll:

What people fail to understand or do not understand is that a branded computer can not compete with an assembled computer.

In what ways? If you just talk about customer care then I would like to ask you that how many times did you call the Mac Care or their executive visit you in one year? Divide 20,000 bucks with that number...that is how much your each call cost you. Was it worth it? If yes...then you are just a rich guy with loads of money to throw down the drain.

[knight17]

dont think Mac is expensive Quality comes @ price

Is it able to compete with a PC of similar price, I don't think it is.May be the PC don't have the look, but I love it.

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by eddie

...and he talked about Mac Mini in his article? For god's sake man...you can't compare apples to oranges. He was clearly talking about Mac...not Mac mini. Just look at the specs he mentioned. Please read the article again and get the essence of it before flaming everyone
Yes...the dealers will sell it at 40K...sure...why not...may be they will give me one for free :roll:
In what ways? If you just talk about customer care then I would like to ask you that how many times did you call the Mac Care or their executive visit you in one year? Divide 20,000 bucks with that number...that is how much your each call cost you. Was it worth it? If yes...then you are just a rich guy with loads of money to throw down the drain.

Lol. First, it is not a 'Mac'. It is an 'iMac'. There are different Macs: MacBook Pro, MacBook, Mac Mini, iMac, PowerMac, eMac. Not exactly apples to oranges.

Second, it is obvious that you do not know a single mac dealer. I personally got my Mac Mini for 35k when the MRP was 39k. Now, i'd request you to get the 'essence' of the topic at hand.

Third, I'd request you to get the same rig at 40k With a monitor. Check the internal components of any mac and you'll see why it is around 4-5k expensive than a similar PC config.

IBm(Lenovo) portables on the PC side are expensive, as well. The reason? They use high quality parts.

Now for some Accounts lessons. A company has to spend on advertising, customer care, offices. They have a huge employee base. They have to maintain an acceptable margin to keep the shareholders happy. The chain goes like Manufacturer->Company->You

Whereas, when you buy an assembled computer, these costs are not incurred. Hence, assembled computers are cheaper.

And for the personal remark in your post, I will not reply to it. You can think of me as anyone you want. I don't care.

[blackpearl]

At the price of a mac I can build a PC that I bet will be much more powerful than the mac. So PC= more performance-per-rupees.

[eddie]

Originally Posted by mail2and

Second, it is obvious that you do not know a single mac dealer. I personally got my Mac Mini for 35k when the MRP was 39k. Now, i'd request you to get the 'essence' of the topic at hand.

ermm...and that would get me the iMac at 40K? You are getting so happy about 4 thousand bucks and I am talking about more than 23K here...please get the picture...
The OP talks about a system costing 63K bucks in his article...not 35K...

Third, I'd request you to get the same rig at 40k With a monitor.

If you ever come down to Delhi in near future...give Nehru Place a try. The experience will be an eye opener for you...

Check the internal components of any mac and you'll see why it is around 4-5k expensive than a similar PC config.

4-5K? I am talking about 23K here. They are gold plating the internal components or what?

IBm(Lenovo) portables on the PC side are expensive, as well. The reason? They use high quality parts.

Yes they ask Intel to make high quality CPUs for them...Seagate to produce different drives for them and mobo manufacturers to provide them with custom built rocket speed mobos. I am getting the whole picture now

Now for some Accounts lessons. A company has to spend on advertising, customer care, offices. They have a huge employee base. They have to maintain an acceptable margin to keep the shareholders happy. The chain goes like Manufacturer->Company->You

Thanks for the accounts lesson oh great sir. So I should give them my money in order to make them show me advertisements and keep their shareholders happy? Sorry but my close up does not look like this
http://tinyurl.co.uk/6zy3

[JGuru]

It's pretty simple. Mac O.S caters to niche audience.It has more innovative features than
Windows ( ofcourse M$ copies all the Mac's features in it's next O.S release!!!). Mac is
expensive beyond doubt. That's why Microsoft was able to penetrate the market so easily!!!

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by JGuru

Mac is expensive beyond doubt. That's why Microsoft was able to penetrate the market so easily!!!

You should rephrase that to:
"Mac was expensive beyond doubt. That's why Microsoft was able to penetrate the market so easily!!!"
I do not disagree that Apple's products used to be grossly overpriced in the not too distant past, but they offer the most competitively priced products in the market today.
I have another post to support my Apple is not expensive theory, if you would care to have a look here:
Apple expensive? I don't think so... (part deux). Comments are now open to everyone, if you are so inclined.

Macs were costly....then they switched to Intel X86 CPU to reduces costs
Now they are just over prices PCs

Eddie, u r right,...even I would like to ask Andy, what special components apple uses in their Macs which make them 23k or 4k costly then similarly configured PCs, which is also justified according to him....I guess they had SATA 2 HD already when PCs were running PATA in 2001

Andy, u r not the only one here who has worked on a Mac, better come to the real world

the cheapest Mac is a Mac mini, well, yeah it is...but it does not comes with a Monitor keyboard mouse, etc etc....& what about the sound card, oh it's 2.1 channel onboard. What about the graphics card, oh it's onboard GMA 950 which no one can upgrade. So it's cheap & value for money at 35k, right.

we can get a PC in 35k, without Core 2 duo, but Athlon64 3800+ X2 for sure, just cos core 2 duo is hard to find in retail channel, & we can easily have a 7300GT or Radeon X1600XT with 512 MB VRAM in it & onboard 5.1/7.1 channel audio, monitor keyboard & mouse included...with far better upgrade capability

This is India, why are u comparing Apple USA prices & PC USA prices in India? This is for all of the readers here.

& cut the shareholder talk etc....we are consumers, & we want product at lower cost, we don't want to pay Rs 5000 more, just so that the shareholders are happy

& Andy, in that techspot thread, didn't U said u got your Mac mini for 26k? this is the first time I m hearing that a dealer is selling a branded computer at cost less then it's MRP tera bhai tha kya

Jguru

where have u been when apple copied Spotlight from Longhorn beta shown in 2003 or system backup in form of Time Machine in leopard, come to real world guys, everyone copies from everyone...this is business

The only thing I still like about Apple which is a hardware company is that they made beautiful looking Computers, I mean, no one ever thought of squeezing a computer in a small box like Mac mini, even though, it just stays like that always with no upgradeability. The iMac G4 with the round base is still my favorite designed Computer, iMacG5 & iMac core duo, the whole in one Mac sux in design

PCs are meant to be upgraded as & when needed, Shuttle XPC ever seen those, they are damn small, yet they provide full upgrading capability

aryaush, about your config

U R installing a mobile core 2 duo CPU in a PC desktop, great...just great, they don't even install on desktop PCs, they are costly already cos they are for mobile usage

U included a $140 isight camera in your PC config, again...superb choice, a great camera for PC which doesn't even work with PC...umm...what was the price of Microsoft LX 6000, i guess $79 or $89

apple keyboard & mouse....well, i guess white color hardware comes $10 costly

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by gxsaurav

apple keyboard & mouse....well, i guess white color hardware comes $10 costly

Ten US dollars amounts to Rs. 456.84. You can get a keyboard and mouse combo cheaper than that, irrespective of whether it is 'white' or not?!? I don't think so, mate.

Ten US dollars amounts to Rs. 456.84. You can get a keyboard and mouse combo cheaper than that, irrespective of whether it is 'white' or not?!? I don't think so, mate.

Come again, didn't get u?

what i meant was, Apple's own keyboard & Mouse, are more costly then normal PC keyboard & Mouse, & they charge the premium just cos it's white in color

By the way, why no comments or answers to the other point i posted?

[freshseasons]

I completly agree with gxsaurav on this ! I mean If we think that way even " Mercedes are not expensive ".
Apples have always been into premium Product flagships! Ibook is no more functional than PC Laptop yet the drooling Power simply makes one pay for it.
Apple now since using Softwares that can install windows xp on intel Proccy macs shows they will want to use the windows XP customers base who have an eye for mac.
Points mentioned by gxsaurav are pretty much valid and hence thres no point repeating them
Apples are expensive and they remain so now !

[nix]

ppl usually think more expensive products are better. these compnies that cant bring in the numbers resort to high prices to create a kind of niche market. another example is bose....

[aryayush]

Tiger and Vista: Pictures do speak louder than words!
This post is a must read for Mac and PC users alike. I have been as objective as it is humanly possible to be. The subjective differences that appear on such articles are bound to be present though. Please do give it a look anyway! Thanks!

Oh comon....don't u have anything else to do. Once u were proven wrong, that Mac is not cheap...u start saying a completely different thing.

An idea is so obvious, it comes on it's own...Linux & Mac also copy from Windows, why didn't u show time machine, & it's Windows equivalent, Windows backup system. Why didn't u said that instant search was a feature of WinFS first shown in Longhorn builds 4053 in 2003, which apple copied & released in Mac first as spotlight

U are saying Flip3D & Expose are same, well tell me from which angle...they are completely different. Expose is a 2d layer, parallel to the monitor screen; Flip3D is a 3d layer in itself with Z-buffer

Windows Explorer & Finder are alike...yeah right....do u see an address bar in finder

Control panel searching, again, why don't u say KDE copied it before vista did...this is an obvious feature, which u don't even need actually. Just read what’s on the screen...& u will find what u r looking for

Dock is stylish, that’s it. For years Mac apps are pallated, just look at after effect 6.5 for Mac or GIMP for Mac, & look at AE7 for Mac. However this is just a true innovation. So I won't argue on it...Kudos to Apple for the dock

Even I can say, that Apple copied the current alt+tab from Windows, to show the icons

Dashboard...again, now that is a rip off of Konfabulater, everyone knows that & Sidebar is nothing like dashboard. Sidebar is a container for Widgets, unlike dashboard, which is not a container..But another layer on top of Mac UI

Windows Photo gallery is new, & it's nothing like iphoto....I haven't used iphoto so I can't say though

Burn files to CD was already available in Windows XP, from the time it was released, but I don't think it was in MacOS X 10.0 or 10.1...they added it later

Media centre is a copy of front row ...ya, right....absolutely true man....where were u in 2003, 2004 2005 when XP MCE was released, u r saying the other way around

URGE & iTunes, that’s different discussion anyway, I can say a lot of shortcoming of ipod too....& there are many in Playforsure devices too.

U said better get a Mac, well...why didn't u also said that MacOS works only on Computers made by Apple, which cannot be upgraded by user, which has far less choice when upgrading unlike PCs, & have no value for money anyway. U can't even upgrade RAM on your own

Get your facts right, owning a Mac does not mean its better

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by gxsaurav

[COLOR=black]Dashboard...again, now that is a rip off of Konfabulater, everyone knows that

Sorry for bursting your li'l bubble. Desktop Accessories were first introduced in System 6 in 1988. Wonder why Konfab developers didn't sue Apple?

Ayush, i'd say again. you'd never get a good review of your articles on this forum. Most of the people on this forum have myopic and rigid viewpoints.
__________

Originally Posted by gxsaurav

Why didn't u said that instant search was a feature of WinFS first shown in Longhorn builds 4053 in 2003, which apple copied & released in Mac first as spotlight

What reason do you have to believe that the technology wasn't being developed by Apple when it was previewed by MS? If you are just guessing, then you're no more than a troll.

Windows Explorer & Finder are alike...yeah right....do u see an address bar in finder

It's designed in such a way that it does not require an address bar. However, the next time you check out finder, click on Go>Go to Folder, and your address bar would be there. Shift+Apple+G works, too.

I predict you will skip all of the points mentioned in my post because you have no points to reply. Infact, I can bet on it.

And you mentioned that I said my mac was worth 26k? Well, go checkout TechSpot, kid. If you have already done and realize your folly or ignorance, then do 10 sit-ups or just go back to your sofa. It's already missing you.

[goobimama]

Okay gx:

1) Time machine is (is to be at least) totally transparent. Works behind the scenes. You don't have to remind yourself every week (every day?) to take a backup. I've lost a couple of important files till now, due to my stupidity I admit, and I painfully have to take backups every week (even on my iMac)

2) I've not used flip3D, but gathering from the pictures, I can only see that it shows you one window at a time. Flip flip flip. Expose, much more functional, shows you all the windows, neatly and quickly I might add, to use as much space as efficiently possible. And "Spaces" in leopard is going to better that...

3) I've never used the address bar in Explorer.

4) neh
5) It pains me to run windows on my 24inch monitor.

6) The alt+tab is far more functional in mac. You can quit apps right from alt-tab. You can select the icon from your mouse. Not sure who copied whom though, you may be right.

8) You have not used iPhoto and yet you say Windows Photo gallery is nothing like iPhoto? Talk sense.

9) Whatever. You have to drag the files to the CD drive. It copies all the files to a separate folder before burning which takes as long as the burning process itself....

I can upgrade my RAM.

So I guess it comes down to personal choices. Some prefer to have everything but their work transparent. Some prefer to do some tweaks here and there, clean up the system every week, waste a couple of hours reinstalling every few months.

Some don't mind spending a few extra bucks, so that they don't have to do the dirt job. (though, I must admit, that kind of contradicts the title of this argument).

Why I wrote such a long argument? I can't get sleep...

i better leave now....can't argue all the time to u 2 on your kiddish comments

Andy, was spotlight in developement?, who knows....now anyone can say it was when showed on longhorn, no one knows the truth here

It's designed in such a way that it does not require an address bar. However, the next time you check out finder, click on Go>Go to Folder, and your address bar would be there. Shift+Apple+G works, too.

Didn't know that.

goobimama

1) Have u ever used Windows Backup, u don't even have to do it manually, it will automatically make backups on whatever time period. & by the way, isn't file specific backup something introduced in Windows server 2003 in the year 2003, i think it's called Volume shadow copy...maybe

2) Like i said previously, Apple copied virtual desktop from Linux....& named it Spaces, wonder why andy is not pointing this

Some prefer to do some tweaks here and there, clean up the system every week, waste a couple of hours reinstalling every few months.

So, u don't clean your junk files, cookies, temporary files etc, right...thats quite nice

[mediator]

Ahhh! Please dont leave the fight guys, I was watching the whole nice exciting fight like an observer. It entertained me quite a lot and enlightened me about a lotta things about mac.

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by gxsaurav

i better leave now....can't argue all the time to u 2 on your kiddish comments

Now that you've got your tail between your legs, you're quitting? Tsk Tsk.

Andy, was spotlight in developement?, who knows....now anyone can say it was when showed on longhorn, no one knows the truth here

Yes, what proof you have that Apple did not have it in development? You have no proof to show that. You, obviously, do not understand how operating systems are developed. I would say that if MS had introduced it in 'Longhorn', WHY ISN'T IT A PART OF A COMMERCIALLY RELEASED OS BY MICROSOFT, YET?

It was introduced in Apple's OS about ONE and HALF years ago.

I predicted it right :d, you did not reply to my other comments. It was, obviously, because you had no knowledge of this topic and were trying to troll by posting anything that came to your mind.

2) Like i said previously, Apple copied virtual desktop from Linux....& named it Spaces, wonder why andy is not pointing this

Yes, I forgot to mention that. It's nice that Apple did copy that

I wish Apple do copy Konqueror, too. It's the best file manager out there. It leaves Finder and Windows Explorer far far behind.

Apple have based Safari on Konqueror; it's time to base Finder on it, too.

I'd suggest you go back 20 years to 1985-87, GX. Look at the lawsuits in those years. Maybe your perception of MS will change.

[aryayush]

And anyway, the point of this article was not to show how MS is copying everything from Apple. Everyone knows it HAS been doing that since time immemorial, except for a few nutters!
All I wanted to point out was that features that are available on a Mac appear on a PC at least after one or more years. The Mac users have been launching applications and recovering lost files with the spotlight since April, 2005. Why is it only appearing in Vista's betas now? And that too, according to you, when it was conceptualised by Microsoft?!
See, you have never used a Mac and are defending yourself and your crappy OS of choice when you don't have much idea about the Mac platform. Run them side by side on one system (a feat you can achieve only if you have a Mac) and you will truly realise what you had been missing all along. I bet you will almost never boot into Windows.
And if you have read my article in its entirety, you will notice that I DID mention that MS scored over Apple when it comes to Flip (not Flip 3D) and Windows Media Center.
As for your argument that Flip 3D has not been copied from Exposé, well, it looks exactly the same thing from my, and of many respected technology experts including David Pogue's, point of view. The only visible difference is that Expose is pseudo-3D and Flip 3D is just that, 3D. The screen dims in both and both of them have a VERY similar animation. The difference that IS there has purposely been created to '*******ize and diminish (it) in some way by definition' so that MS is shielded from the lawsuits and people like you can claim that it isn't copied. Of course, Exposé is far more useful and is more convenient to invoke. You just slide your mouse to the corner of the screen and it activates in a flash. I constantly find myself sliding my mouse to the screen corner when I am running Vista on Parallels (which, in case you didn't know, is a software that allows you to run any OS on Mac OS X without the need for a reboot).

[goobimama]

This has never happened before. gx has, as anand says, put his 'small little' tail between it two ignorant legs and fled the topic! And if he does read 'this' post of mine, that means he didn't actualy leave, but he's watching from one corner of the world (even though the world doesn't have corners).

[aryayush]

Originally Posted by gxsaurav

Windows Photo gallery is new, & it's nothing like iphoto....I haven't used iphoto so I can't say though

I can surely see how sure you are about what you say! Let me just rephrase that for you a bit:
"Windows Vista is new, & it's nothing like Mac OS X Tiger....I haven't used Tiger so I can't say though"
LOL!

[mediator]

Originally Posted by aryayush

Run them side by side on one system (a feat you can achieve only if you have a Mac) and you will truly realise what you had been missing all along. I bet you will almost never boot into Windows.

I like that kinda confidence! So guess mah VMWare list includes MAC too now. Wonder if it can be installed on it!

Neways I agree with @mail2and, he (@gxsaurav) cheated with me too in (Windows vs Linux vs BSD's vs Solaris vs Other OS'es) WIndows Vs Linux debate which was getting interesting and fled in between .

Hey guys how much Physical memory Mac uses so that I can set it up in VMWARE??

[aryayush]

Anything lower than 512 megabytes won't do it justice. I personally have two gigabytes of memory on my system and I allot one gigabyte to each OS when, and if, I boot Vista using Parallels. But I used to do that when Vista RC1 was released to check it out. Don't do it any longer now... for obvious reasons!
Tiger has really got a huge jungle to play in, and boy, it is fast! I selected thirty images, right-clicked and selected 'Open with Photoshop CS2'. The program was already running and the images opened in cascaded windows in two seconds flat. And this when Mail, Safari, iChat, iTunes, iPhoto, QuickTime, System Preferences, Adium, Microsoft Messenger, Opera and Yahoo! Messenger were already running.
I then booted into Windows XPee (using Boot Camp) and launched Adobe Photoshop CS2. Then I selected the same thirty images and hit return. It took twenty two seconds even with no other program running. Let's hope Windows Vista is not blown away so easily by Leopard... or even Tiger!