Is M Schumacher a cheat and an dishonest driver?

[drgrudge]

M Schumacher recently announced his retirement from Formula One after the Italian GP.

It was a good riddance. Good to see a cheater and an dishonest driver to retire. He should have done that long time back.

I hope that Alonso and Renault win the Drivers and Constructors championships resp.

[Vyasram]

why do u say so?

anyway alonso and briatore are the real crybabies. they think f1 is fixed. lol .

f1 will miss its greatest performer and f1 market will definitely go down next season.

hope schumi wins this season in the last race by one pt. that wud really 91$$ off the crybabies.

next championship is gonna be all abt ferrari with kimi and felipe, hope they both share no1 status equally in the team

[drvarunmehta]

I'm going to agree with drgrudge, Schumacher and Ferrari are cheats. If he wins this year, it will be the 3rd title he didn't deserve.
In 1994 he crashed into Damon Hill on purpose and won the championship by 1 point.
In 2003 the Michelin tyres of his closest competitors Raikkonen and Montoya were suddenly deemed illegal and banned after being used throughout the season. He won the title in the last race after the Michelin shod cars had lost their advantage.
In the 2006 Italian GP, the steward unfairly penalised Alonso and finished his chances of competing for the win whereas the video evidence clearly shows that he didn't do anything wrong. You can see the video on www.youtube.com and decide for yourself.

Schumacher is the only driver in F1 history who has been disqualified and had his results for the entire year scrapped for unsportsmanlike behaviour after he purposely crashed into Jacques Villeneuve in the final race of the season in 1997. Fortunately he was punished this time and Villeneuve won the championship.

[iMav]

^^ first of all this is under no circumsatnces a clean sport .... fabio himself has played tricks ....

it is evident success is a two edged sword .... i wonder how did a cheat win so titles so many trophies .... a cheat who has 90 race wins damn no 1 did anything i wonder why .....

[mehulved]

OK let's fight it out .
Well he may have pushed things to the limits and a few times beyond the limits. But, that is not enough to justify him as a cheat. He has fairly and squarely snatched many amazing victories. He's always been a determined driver ready to push to the limits and beyond. Well, some of the aggresion is surely gonna show off in a bad way. But, that doesn't mean he's a cheat.
And always people who are at the top enjoy some favours from the authorities, we can't blame Micheal for that.

[ashu888ashu888]

well, look at the stats:

Alonso---> 1 World Championships, Schumacher---> 7 World crowns

Tat speaks volumes of his hard work along with the team tat has been working their ass off to get the ferrari team upto this level. If he had cheated then its not possible to cheat all the way to get a glory of 7 world crowns !!!! If he has announced his retirement at this stage then its just his hardwork tats been rewarded and not bcoz he is a loser... come on grow up.

Jus bcoz tat chocolate looking Mr. Alonso won the WC the previous year and also the Constructors Crown with Renault, its no proving tat he will Equal or even come close to wat Schumi has achieved along with his "Tafosi" Fans...

Im sorry to say but I really dnt think u knw the background of F1 and u aren't smart either buddy....It would hv been better if u had started this topic way back wen Schumi was still conducting his practise runs b4 winning the 7 WCs of F1....

I still am a fan of Schumi and still a die hard Tafosi fan....and there is no way tat he is a Cheater...please giv us a break... He has challenged the former Finnish driver, Mika Hakkinen and the then super champ team of McLaren Mercedes in the 90s then challenged the team of BMW Williams consisiting of Ralf and Juan Montoya and still won the crowns..

Come on lets face it buddy, Ferrari, Schumi and the Tafosis are the backbone adn will never be forgotten ever, infact the older they will get, the better and remembered they will become jus like Old Wine......

It would hv been better if u thought of sum other topic rather than seeing ur own self beated badly in this Debate.....

[mihirvashist]

M Schumacher recently announced his retirement from Formula one after the Italian GP.

That's good riddance. Good to see a cheater and an dishonest driver to retire. He should have done that long time back.

I hope that Alonso and Renault win the Drivers and Constructors championships resp.

sorry i don't agree with the statement that m schumacher is a cheat...........
he has won everything fair and square.....
he deserves what he has won ....
and i bid him farewell however there will be always an empty space which cannot be taken by anybody...even if renault and alonso wins Drivers and Constructors championships they'll never be as good as he is....
and yes abt his retirement..i think its right time coz when you retire when u are at ur peak ppl give u more respect and u are remembered long after...

and yes if am not wrong he has won 90 races and have 22 hattricks to his name(i.e 22x3=66 out of 90 i.e. 66/90*100=73.33%----great isn't it)......


------------
plz don't consider me rude but its better to talk abt topics u actully know of ..otherwise u end up making in fun of urself ..or as in this case a defeat...

[iMav]

cmon man .... let me see only 5 races where it has been claimed that he bent the rules and 90 races he was numero uno .... wet conditions ka baap hai ye .... there's no 1 else in this sport who has instincts even closer to that of schumi ....

sena is the best

schumi is better than the best

[Vyasram]

schumi ain't a cheat.

1994 australia, he wud not have been aware that he lost total control and he continued on the racing line. fine. even if he did that on purpose , itz not cheating itz just immoral, btw this is the only race he might have "taken advantage"

next up, abt the team strategy, yeah he had some in 2002 especially at austria, but what diff did it make.

and dont blame schumi for what the fia does and dont act like briatore or alonso and say f1 is fixed , simply bcoz ferrari is an italian team

and abt the monaco stopping, it was completely unintentional, a good camera angle at youtube shows it, even had he done he got the punishment he deserved , and is still in the race for the title

then i wud also like to mention that fia is not on ferrari's side ,
proof: they turned all the rules against ferrari's strategy in 2005 and literally stripped them off the title



to villenueve:
schumi's records speak for itself 90 race wins n all 8* titles , unmatched by anyone . schumi is the best so far in f1.

hope u make that 8th title

[Dipen01]

Damn..ashwin...... u seem to be more of SCHUMI hater than ALONSO lover..!!

I am a big fan of Schumi...since very beginning... Just because of some odd moments (and even he told it..ke when something like that happens..people who believe in you come to ur side..and others just oppose)...

U cant adjudge some one with

Most race wins: 90 (previous record beaten in 2001)
Most race wins with one team: 71
Most podium finishes: 153
Most second place finishes: 43
Most points finishes: 188
Most pole positions: 68
Most fastest laps: 75
Most race wins from pole position: 40
Most "clean-sweeps" (pole position, race win, and fastest lap): 22
Most championship points: 1,354
2006:

Only racing driver ever, in any racing class, to win 5 times at Indianapolis Motor Speedway
Only driver in history to win the same Grand Prix 8 times at (French Grand Prix at Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours)
Only driver to lead over 5,000 laps.(Achieved at 2006 German Grand Prix)
Most time between first and last race wins: 13 years, 11 months, and 3 days
2004:

Most championship titles: 7 (previous record beaten in 2003)
Most consecutive championship titles: 5
Most race wins in a season: 13 (in 18 races) (previous record tied in 1995, 2000, and 2001 and beaten in 2002)
Most consecutive race wins: 7 (2004 European GP, Canadian GP, United States GP, French GP, British GP, German GP, Hungarian GP)
Most fastest laps in a season: 10 (in 18 races)
Most championship points in a season: 148 (out of a maximum of 180)
Most consecutive race finished without retirement 24 (Alonso broke series of 22 at Hugaroring 2006)
2002:

Most podium finishes in a season: 17 (in 17 races)

source:- wikipedia

1 is fluke...2 is fluke....10 can be flukes...not damn 90 wins....
and he is very tough driver who raced wid MIKA , ARYTON ...in times when technology like Traction Control and all wasnt that developed...

and everything was Manual... and u have had to take care of everything back then..!!

Anyways....the percentage of Anti Schumis....are negligible .. if seen on a large scale...i guess.. 1 in 1000 must be hating him..!! Doest matter....

U shuld see Every god damn race...and the percentage of REDs out there...People love Ferrari not because of brand...but because of SCHUMI...

Well...u might argue that thats ur opinion...but all i can say i....Theres never gonna be another driver like Michael...NEVER EVER...

This is indeed an END OF ERA in Formula 1



PS:- By the if u count the misbehaviours and wrong tackles and penalties of this season itself...u ll know whoz penalised more..by STEWARDS..... check the last race itself...

[prateek_san]

how can u say that is a cheat .... he is the greatest racer in this world man....
7 championship titles....c'mon man...

[drgrudge]

I wrote a loooooong post, and thought I'll post that in my blog. So you guys can see that and respond to what I said there or in this thread.
{Michael ‘Cheatmacher’ is a cheap and an dishonest driver}
http://ashwinr.com/2006/09/11/michae...honest-driver/


Guys, you all seem to live in the present. Most of you won't have seen F1 for a long time or grown up watching that biased Steve Slater - Chris Godwin commentary in Star Sports.


By the way, I'm not saying that he's a bad driver (he might be good - I don't care) but he got ZERO ethics and sportsmanship spirit.

[anispace]

Most race wins: 90 (previous record beaten in 2001)
Most race wins with one team: 71
Most podium finishes: 153
Most second place finishes: 43
Most points finishes: 188
Most pole positions: 68
Most fastest laps: 75
Most race wins from pole position: 40
Most "clean-sweeps" (pole position, race win, and fastest lap): 22
Most championship points: 1,354
2006:

Only racing driver ever, in any racing class, to win 5 times at Indianapolis Motor Speedway
Only driver in history to win the same Grand Prix 8 times at (French Grand Prix at Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours)
Only driver to lead over 5,000 laps.(Achieved at 2006 German Grand Prix)
Most time between first and last race wins: 13 years, 11 months, and 3 days
2004:

Most championship titles: 7 (previous record beaten in 2003)
Most consecutive championship titles: 5
Most race wins in a season: 13 (in 18 races) (previous record tied in 1995, 2000, and 2001 and beaten in 2002)
Most consecutive race wins: 7 (2004 European GP, Canadian GP, United States GP, French GP, British GP, German GP, Hungarian GP)
Most fastest laps in a season: 10 (in 18 races)
Most championship points in a season: 148 (out of a maximum of 180)
Most consecutive race finished without retirement 24 (Alonso broke series of 22 at Hugaroring 2006)
2002:

Most podium finishes in a season: 17 (in 17 races)

source:- wikipedia

Ok so u mean to say he achieved all this with zero ethics and sportmanship.
Have u ever even watched Formula 1 coz if u had then u might have known how good a driver he is. Ok there have been some instances where he has bent the rules but tht does not mean hes a cheat. cmon man ..90 race wins is not a joke.

[Dipen01]

One could sense from the body language of Michael and Jean Todt. And Luca di Montezemolo's eyes said it all. Its sad to see him leave, but that eventually had to happen someday or the other. And what better way to retire than to win the championship. Even if he doesn't win the championship, still the statistics above says it all. He has achieved nearly all the stats achieveable. He has been a great driver and a gentlemen. Even the controversies cannot overshadow his achievements and this span of 16 year career. Michael Schumacher will be a name in the history of Formula One, who has been a leading figure in Formula One. No driver has ever had a support like this from tifosi. Even the McLaren, Renault and even the Anti-Schumi/Ferrari people would have to pay some respect to the driver who has really made the sport his.
Farewell Michael. Good wishes. And its good to know that you will continue your relationship with Ferrari. These 3 races will be his last, and we wish Michael goodluck, and hope he wins all the three and take the drivers' title.

We will miss you Michael!

By Geek_Rohit - from another forum

Really
We will miss you Michael!

[rakeshishere]

I have just one thing to say--Probably None coming in the future can be like this guy..He is the ultimate man..I am a big schumi fan and getting sad bcoz F1 means schumacher and schumacher means F1.

[runeet]

You know as they say 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly'

[cool_dude_prav]

Originally Posted by runeet

You know as they say 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly'

what has this proverb got to do with schumi???

he has neither power nor "absolute" power!!!
he is after all, a driver amongs dozens others in the F1 championship, damn it!!!

[iMav]

Originally Posted by cool_dude_prav

what has this proverb got to do with schumi???

he has neither power nor "absolute" power!!!
he is after all, a driver amongs dozens others in the F1 championship, damn it!!!

exactly .... and what a sore looser renault is they claim that the race was fixed and fabio now says he said it was a joke ..... renault sux and fabio is sore looser wen things aint in his stride

[drvarunmehta]

Why don't you see the evidence for yourself and then say whether Alonso was penalised unfairly or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGKpElvSeuw

[drgrudge]

Originally Posted by drvarunmehta

Why don't you see the evidence for yourself and then say whether Alonso was penalised unfairly or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGKpElvSeuw

Yeah.. YouTube got all the "evidence". I'm sure most of the ppl here are watching F1 for just a couple of years and cry " Shoe-me is the beeeeeeest".

[mail2and]

for the first time, I'm going to agree with mav3. Schumacher may have bent the rules a few times, but he isn't a cheat. Though Michael wasn't the fastest in wet conditions. Who can forget Jean Alesi?

Find me another driver who can go faster at the S-bend(2nd turn) at the Japanese Grand Prix.

Though my favourite driver is Webber!

Grudgy, you can't claim that people who have just watched F1 are low-lifes. Even you had watched this sport for the first time some day.

[drgrudge]

Originally Posted by mail2and

Though Michael wasn't the fastest in wet conditions.

Hmm.. yes. The rain master thing is all crap. He is good in wet conditions, but you can't call him rain master. He drives with Bridgestone and we know they're good in the wet conditions. Alonso and Kimi will be better than MS in wet conditions if they drive in Bridgestone.

Originally Posted by mail2and

Grudgy, you can't claim that people who have just watched F1 are low-lifes. Even you had watched this sport for the first time some day.

I'm not trying to have an authority. What I'm trying to emphasis is he had a bad tainted history. The very fact that we're discussing this topic is proof of what I'm trying to say.

[mail2and]

Originally Posted by drgrudge

Hmm.. yes. The rain master thing is all crap. He is good in wet conditions, but you can't call him rain master. He drives with Bridgestone and we know they're good in the wet conditions. Alonso and Kimi will be better than MS in wet conditions if they drive in Bridgestone.

No, I don't think Kimi or Alonso can match Schumacher in wet conditions. The reason: Schumacher has 16 yrs of experience. Besides, who is stopping McLaren or Renault from using Bridgestone tires.

If you say Ferrari are cheats, McLaren are no less. Why did you not mention that Coulthard deliberately stopped in front of Schumacher in rain in 1998(resulting in a crash) denying Schumacher a certain victory. It was the same season in which Hakinnen won narrowly. I can't remember the GP. It was when Schumacher almost hit Coulthard in the pit lane.

[Vyasram]

records matter dude, and schumi holds almost all of em

[drgrudge]

Originally Posted by mail2and

No, I don't think Kimi or Alonso can match Schumacher in wet conditions. The reason: Schumacher has 16 yrs of experience. Besides, who is stopping McLaren or Renault from using Bridgestone tires.

McLaren was using Bridgestone only. Only recently they switched loyalties to Michelin as Bridgestone favored Ferrari. Their tires were custom made for Ferrari.

Anyway next year, all the cars are gonna race with Bridgestone, then we'll see who the real rain master is.

Originally Posted by mail2and

If you say Ferrari are cheats, McLaren are no less. Why did you not mention that Coulthard deliberately stopped in front of Schumacher in rain in 1998(resulting in a crash) denying Schumacher a certain victory. It was the same season in which Hakinnen won narrowly. I can't remember the GP. It was when Schumacher almost hit Coulthard in the pit lane.

When did I say Ferrari is a cheat?

So if you're quoting a one off incidence, then I invite you to go thro this article and see how much wrong doings of MS is quoted.


I'll tell you guys why MS quit. He CAN win GPs, but he CAN'T win the championships. Plus he made sure that all the records were in his name. He should have quit long back when he felt he was not competitive.
__________

Originally Posted by Vyasram

records matter dude, and schumi holds almost all of em

Yeah.. they say that Winning is everything.

I never questioned MS ability as a driver. As I said earlier he might be good (I don't care) but he lacks ethics and sportsmanship spirit.

Mikka has won 2 Championship only, but I like him every much. He's one of the best drivers around when he raced. He quit when he knew he wasn't competitive. He had the passion and loved F1. MS seems that he's driving for records.

[Vyasram]

schumacher- not competitive-546546546 nominations for world's laughter awards

[drgrudge]

Originally Posted by Vyasram

schumacher- not competitive-546546546 nominations for world's laughter awards

Mr. Vyasram,
You know what happened last season and the first half of this season. MS won 5 years in a row with Ferrari when the car was way too good for other cars by miles. Now dont get me started on the story that Ferrari was not competitive and didn't have the best car in the '98-'99 season.

[drvarunmehta]

No one's doubting Schumacher's driving skills. But that dosen't change the fact that he has no sporting-spirit whatsoever. Winnings important but it isn't everything. If a person is willing to run his own brother off the road you really have to ask if he's an idiot or just cold-hearted?
There are so many athletes who have dominated their respective sports and haven't resorted to the kind of behaviour Schumacher and Ferrari have.
Sachin Tendulkar, Pete Sampras, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan etc. have always played within the rules and everyone respects them for that. Schumacher despite all his records has and always will have his reputation under question.

[Vyasram]

Originally Posted by drgrudge

Mr. Vyasram,
You know what happened last season and the first half of this season. MS won 5 years in a row with Ferrari when the car was way too good for other cars by miles. Now dont get me started on the story that Ferrari was not competitive and didn't have the best car in the '98-'99 season.

itz like committing career suicide simply bcoz u r not good. wud anyone recommend anyone to commit suicide if he fails in life. same way, ferrari sucked last year , but it was bcoz of the anti-ferrari rules by the fia to dethrone them. but ferrari and schumacher know they can bounce back and they have done it this season , just two pts diff now.

btw, roseberg made the fastest lap at the season start , now he doesn;t even try to do it. so should he give up and leave f1 as he is not competitive.

and i read this in one of the mags

"the might of great persons are not shown by their continued domination, but by their strength to rise back to the top after a big fall"

ans schumi and ferrari did that this season.

[drgrudge]

Originally Posted by Vyasram

itz like committing career suicide simply bcoz u r not good.

What an analogy! So did Micheal Jordan, Sohail Abbas (both of them made a comeback as well), Pete Sampras, Mikka Hakinnen commit suicide? It's sports dude. Can Dustin Hoffman do roles like what he did in Graduate? And now that he doesn't do such roles, can you term he committed suicide?

Originally Posted by Vyasram

it was bcoz of the anti-ferrari rules by the fia to dethrone them.

Can we all know what are the so called "anti-ferrari" rules imposed by FIA? Infact, IMO it's the other way around. Alonso was penalized which many would agree shouldn't have done in the first place. Next year, we have only Bridgestone tires which favors Ferrari, etc...

Originally Posted by Vyasram

"the might of great persons are not shown by their continued domination, but by their strength to rise back to the top after a big fall"

True. Saw Tiger Woods? Got in a slump and now he's #1 again and doing well. Sampras also did that when he retired from competitive Tennis after winning the 2003 US open (brush your memory - He dint really fare well in the previous Grand slams and tournaments).

Now we have MS who won 5 times in a row with Ferrari when the car was way too good for other cars by miles. His car is looking good this season and IMO they got the best package. When he won with Benetton, then also he got the best car and he was caught using 'illegal' fuel also.

I agree that we need a good package and an all round car to win the Championship but whenver MS won, his car was far far better than other cars. Now check the seasons when MS was around and he din't win. Those drivers were just amazing.

Originally Posted by Vyasram

ans schumi and ferrari did that this season.

Not yet. 3 more rounds to go. Now let me quote what Alonso said. I'm just quoting as my memory goes. Not sure abt the exact words he said.
"I hope that our honesty pays off and we'll come back strongly to win the championship"