Is M Schumacher a cheat and an dishonest driver?

[drvarunmehta]

Have you not gone through the entire post that you are asking the basis of calling him a cheat?

[GeeNeeYes]

lol
this thread is getting no where
all points are exhausted

[VD17]

Well, i say that he is a cheat. Of course, Schumacher has been the greatest driver of his times. But he's also the most un-sprtsman like... Are you ppl. forgetting Monaco '06? when he parked the car in the middle of the track just so that Alonso doesnt outqualify him? There are a countless number of times when MS cheated.. those who are watching F1 from the pre-2002 season will know. In the last 5 years, he didnt need to cheat cause he had the best car. But even then, poor old Rubens had to suffer cause of him (Austrian GP, 2001). And FIA is also biased.. in 2000, they shifted a whole turn in Indianapolis overnight just because ferrari couldnt get the grip right (this was in MS's biography).
MS might have the maximum number of blah blah blahs.. but the fact that he will do sink low when ppl. whoop his arse just overshadows his professional accomplishments and raise a questionmark on his character.
I think the best solution to him was JPM.. when JPM started to "danda" MS at the start of 2002 season by not letting him pass even when he should have.. it was a dose of shumacher's medicine back to him. Thank god we wont be seeing him from next year.
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And yeah, Star Sports was a sucker for Schumacher.. no freakin idea why...

[Dipen01]

^^^

Dude everything is discussed..This Thread is goin no where...Polls mite give better answer..

[iMav]

please decide as to is a cheat .... the fia or msc and talking abt montoya every1 who has been following f1 knows that juan is the most reckless driver around .... his stratergy is ... if its not him the 1s not gonna be .... so better dont bring jpm in here coz if schumi is un-sproting then juan got no classification
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and if u renault and all havnt been playin tricks .... guess what they too hav tried to pressurize bernie as to make things happen their way or they aint signing the consortium ..... so its not only schumi and ferrari .....

[ratedrsuperstar]

michael is as great as HHH in the wwe no matter what he does he is the king of kings and a hall of famer .flavio is just playing mind games to get in his head.

[Vyasram]

michael is 10^10 times bigger than HHH, how cud u compare a geat sportsman and a show-clown

[iMav]

kidhar raja bhog (MSC) aur kahan gangu teli (HHH) .....

[aneesh kalra]

I will answer all your allegations one by one
How can u say that schumi is a cheat didn't alonso do the same to massa in qualifying when his renault spilled oil over the place .In a sport where such incidents are common and where even senna admitted to having tried to kill prost nobody is clean
"senna also admitted to trying to kill prost in 1990 season...
In 1990, again at Suzuka the two drivers came together yet again, as Prost (now in a Ferrari) held his line and Senna hit him. Senna admitted the move was premeditated as Senna's lead in the World Championship meant he was crowned World Champion
Prost won five races in 1990, and by entering the title deciding race at the Japanese Grand Prix in Suzuka, he was set to fight for another World Championship. The Pole was won by his Brazilian rival at McLaren, Ayrton Senna, but due to the nature of the circuit, the pole position was placed at the right side of the main straight. This was and remains the dirty side. Senna asked that the position be changed to the left, as it had more grip, and because in his view, the pole position was supposed to favor the fastest driver, and not the second placed. Track officials refuse, and the Pole position place remained at the right of the track.
senna fans will realiose that this part and parcel of
As a result, Prost's Ferrari quickly overtook Senna at the start of the race. Senna then threw his car into Prost's while entering the first and medium speed corner. Both ended on the gravel pit, and thus Senna clinched the title thanks to his pre-existent points advantage. Later Senna confirmed the action, claiming that it was not fair that the FIA did not change the Pole position, nor the way Prost won the last championship."
I do not want to accuse senna he was a great driver and I respect him the above incident only highlights that these things do happen.

.It is only because schumacher being no.1 his incident are flashed as breaking news wher as alonso's acts of shamefullness go unoticed. Or how does schumi lack team spirit and does he do it only for the records in my opinion no.see if he had been doing this only for the records then he would hav never bounced back as he had done now and even last year when he was struggling with this car he performed well coming third after alonso and raikonnen , a person who only runs after records can never do this .I even ask how can u compare schumacher with alonso who is just a new crying kid(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pmhNPdu50M) on the block who accuses others of cheating when things do not work out for him and one who never smiles or greets his opponenent remember it was schumi who greeted alonso last year on winning the championship.
This is the schumacher who has raced withh senna,prost and hakkinen(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oStMJUYrI0A) who are legends in their own right.
You talk about f1 spirit even after being arch rivals schumi was great friends with haikkanen and he does feature prominently in this formula 1 friendship video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwUnE...elated&search=
can u imagin any other present title rivals being so courteous to each other.
Regarding schumi being a rain master only on bridgestones his first race win was also in the wet that was in a benetton without bridgestones and schumacher has drove well many a time in the rains and that is why he has been named as the rainmaster.The car matters so do the tyres but the driver is more important from your personal driving experience ypu know that driving in the rain is difficult and at high sppeds this becomes even more difficult.

I have answered all your allegations against schumacher
and now I suppose that there will be no more insults towards my hero and that he demands respect in the same vein as senna,prost or haikkanen and even more.

[VD17]

Alonso's SUPPOSED cheating incidents = 1 (as per what u've quoted)
M. Schumacher's cheating incidents = countless. (history bears witness)

And as regards his friendly outlook towards other racers.. its the other driver's generosity.. not his.. have u seen that vid of how Hakkinen overtook him in spa in 2000? and how the jerk blocked him in vain? even then Mika had kind words for him...
the only reason shumacher can afford to be diplomatic is because he has broken a lot of records... he doesnt give a **** about what ppl. say anymore...

[drgrudge]

^^
Well said!

No matter what you guys say, he has cheated and everyone in F1 knows that. I think Mr. MS himself will also acknowledge the fact that he was dishonest after he retires.

[iMav]

the only reason shumacher can afford to be diplomatic is because he has broken a lot of records... he doesnt give a **** about what ppl. say anymore...

..... if u have realised that what others say doesnt matter then y the hell are u saying anything against hime or for him????

[aneesh kalra]

if u are yourself admiting that schumi does not care about his enemies stupid then why are u shouting on this thread that schumi is low on ethics or what .I ask u the question that are u completely scout-free and that u hav not even cheated in ur life even in the worst situations say u are in colege one of the strictest profs gives u a project to complete at a very short notice for some awful act of yours and it has to be done and u being a geek know that it can be done if u just google the project u will find it readymade then what will u do will u for the sake of ethics preapare a project from scratch with no hope of completing it and geting scolded or will u go the google way.saachi baatao aur yeh to sirf ek scolding se bachne ke liye but contrary to what vinayak has said about schumacher the only so called low ethics he has done has done them when he was closest to the championship and these also are hardly three so how according to u how are they countless better check ur maths and that also because schumi is so popular tht these were highlighted and thats why this thread has been extended to 103 posts.regarding the 2000 overtaking blocks by schumi i hav seen that although it was one of the best passes i hav seen and haikanen only response to it was that it was litle difeent overtaking manouvere schumi blocking haikannen than once was completely legitmate although fia
allows only one block because if u had seen the prost senna schumi video posted by me previously then u would have noticed that mighty senna did the same to both prost and schumi so do u dare to say that even senna was below ethics and who do u have as a flagbearer for ur ethic brigade alonso who has won only 12 gp's and who himself at this stage used a mass damper to win last year and even this year so he is aven bigger cheat (schumacher-3
to alonso 26 or 27) since by using mass damper he cheated in every race especially because his team manager is flavio braitore who was schumi's team manager during his benetton years and according u schumacher is unethical so his former team manager must also be the same and he is alonso's present team manager so this further prooves that if schumi is unethical then alonso is highly unethical . I do not understand why the mod is extending the debate despite my highly detailed arguments against the baseless allegations .See u hav only three against schumi and the rest of us are pro schumi this is further evident in the poll but that according to u it is irrelevant than why did u start it in the first place heeeeeeeeeeeeee
. I think u are just a part of the minority who try to find fault(or as u say grudges) in successful people because u are scared of their success and in all ur posts u hav just repeated one line ethics blahhhhh!! .the debate is now closed 43:8 because its conclusion has been reached upon .

[iMav]

aneesh chillax man .... all posters know that this is a 1 sided debate .... schumi is the king of F1 for a very long time to come .... it doesnt matter even if ppl call him a cheat ....

[VD17]

Originally Posted by aneesh kalra

if u are yourself admiting that schumi does not care about his enemies stupid then why are u shouting on this thread that schumi is low on ethics or what .

PROFESSIONAL ethics. He lack complete professional ethics.. each time he sees that the situation is getting out of control, he flips out.. an amazing example of this was this year's Monaco GP.

Regarding Alonso's mass dampers fiasco.. if that was so illegal.. where was the FIA banning them? there wasnt any media frenzy about it.. or probably the MS fans got pissed and started making their own conspiracy theories.
I'm too tired to do any research right now... or else i'll show you what my math is. And by the way, schumacher himself has admitted to some his MANY pre-1999 era cheating in his biography (forgot the name of the book).

And yes, i've cheated. And i've been criticised for it. I accept it. I cheat the same way my classmates/batchmates do. Everyone does. But show me one driver who has as many cheating titles to himself apart from the great mister shoemaker. I dont ask this to BIASED MS fans or haters.
As regarding the poll, all i have to say that people have been misinformed. 90% of the ppl. participating in the poll have not seen schumacher before 2000.
Well, misled public opinion is a common thing in our country. Or why else we'd have suckers like Mulayam singh ruling our state if everyone knew what was the right choice.

By the way, i'm not an MS hater. Whatever i'm saying is based on facts.. and i'm a bit too busy to spoon-feed the facts to you lot... its available on the internet.. www.google.com I still agree that MS was the greatest driver.. but he was also a cheat. This is my opinion. I have facts to back my opinion, not a misled fanboyism.

[drvarunmehta]

Originally Posted by aneesh kalra

alonso who has won only 12 gp's and who himself at this stage used a mass damper to win last year and even this year so he is aven bigger cheat (schumacher-3
to alonso 26 or 27) since by using mass damper he cheated in every race especially because his team manager is flavio braitore who was schumi's team manager during his benetton years and according u schumacher is unethical so his former team manager must also be the same and he is alonso's present team manager so this further prooves that if schumi is unethical then alonso is highly unethical

The mass damper wasn't illegal last year or even for most of this year. It was declared illegal only recently to give Ferrari an advantage and give MS a chance to retire in glory.
Your argument about Alonso being unethical is plain dumb. How can a person be unethical simply by being the manager of someone who is unethical?

[VD17]

Originally Posted by aneesh kalra

I think u are just a part of the minority who try to find fault(or as u say grudges) in successful people because u are scared of their success and in all ur posts u hav just repeated one line ethics.

Dont make personal references here, aneesh. I can do a better psychological analysis of your seemingly frustrated behaviour to such an extent that this will turn into a full-blown fight. Lets keep this in the limits.
And by the way, i had made just ONE post in this entire thread before this. and it dealth with ethics because that what we're talking about here (duh).
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Originally Posted by drvarunmehta

How can a person be unethical simply by being the manager of someone who is unethical?

LMAO.

[aneesh kalra]

see yaar that maths joke was not to hurt u. this is a debate chill i should have avoided this line i accept it but doc that mass damper thing is illegal because
tuned mass dampers stabilize against violent motion caused by harmonic vibration. The presence of a tuned damper forces a comparatively lightweight structure to overcome the inertia of a great mass, such as a giant concrete block, placed in such a way that the mass only begins to move in one direction just as the structure begins to move in the other, thus damping the structure's oscillation. The counterweight may be mounted using massive spring coils and hydraulic dampers, and if the axis of the vibration is fundamentally horizontal or torsional, leaf springs and pendulum-mounted weights are employed. Tuned mass dampers are engineered, or "tuned" to specifically counter harmful frequencies of oscillation or vibration.
which is vital for taking quick corners and thats why it was ruled out quite contrary to pat symonds whose pr statement is only to fool normal enthusiasts. and doc it is bravitore who has brought alonso so far from those karting days.

[VD17]

Yaar... as Varun pointed out.. the mass dampers were NOT illegal last year.. its just Renault found that edge and exploited it.. and it hurt Ferrari's chances so FIA banned it.

[iMav]

well if u say so ..... u think ferrari doesnt know how to make dampers or they cant use them ..... i mean be a little rational ..... if they do not giv an extra edge y wud they b banned rather than other teams also using them .... thodi akal lagao

[drvarunmehta]

It's not that Ferrari or anyone else dosen't know how to make mass dampers. It just didn't strike them to do it.
Banning devices that give a team an edge is plain stupid. What will differentiate one car from another than? Is anyone going to come up with anything innovative if it's just going to get banned in a few races?
This is all the fault of the bloody FIA. They have imposed so many restrictions on the specifications of the car that there isn't going to be much difference between 2 teams anymore. Plus all teams will use the same tyres too from next year. All this in the name of cost cutting measures. What use having the worlds top engineers if they make cars that are clones of each other?
Bah. If you don't have enough money don't be in F1.

[iMav]

so again u r blaming fia and not ferrari or MSC .... i guess this debate is coming to end as almost all anti schumi ppl hve blamed fia more than msc

[VD17]

oh man.. WE'RE BLAMING THE FIA FOR THE DAMPERS THING!!!
Msc and his antics were in a different conversation...

[iMav]

boss chk out the entire thread and u will see that fia has been blamed more than MSC ..... read b4 typing .... its not only abt dampers

[Dipen01]

Schumacher - My Hero !!!

Each Sport has a figure on the world stage , Each Sport endavours to produce magic , But certain Magicians are the ones that create the magic and there charm is what enchants us and what attracts us towards them . We have'nt even met these beautiful people yet they mean the world to us ! These are not just meant to be beautiful words but true feelings of a maniac who has worshipped and not just admired the Magician of all Magicians

Enough of soft humbugging talks , let's get in your face now .

First of all , I need to proove to you the toil Formula 1 is all about , The Technical Inputs which involve it and most importantly the die-hard motivation and unparallel determination that governs it !

Formula 1 'Phsically Demanding'> Formula 1 involves speeds of upto 350 Km/Ph and has cornering speeds which only professionals can execute . The bravest man have admitted that just watching it drives a chill through there spines . The work that goes on in Testing is just unbelievable and the number of people involved to make two cars the fastest in the world is the ultimate endavour . Which sport has competition that narrows down to tenths and at times even thousandth of seconds !

Formula 1 Technically Challenging'> You can have as many strategies and managers in any sport you want but Formula 1 is by far the most technical sport of all by a distant countrymile . The strategy is just a part of the game but car-set ups , Tyre-Wear , Gear Boxes , Steering Wheels , Electronics , Hydraulics are just some of those invaluable elements . Engines and Brake Biases and another 10000 more elements are involved . It *Owns* every other sport as a technical challenge !



Why Michael Schumacher is the best sportsman ever is as follows !

What are the ingridients of a good F1 driver ?

Talent , Quick , Technically Sound , Overtaking Abilities , Temperament , Motivation , Presence of Mind , His impact on the sport and at last his Accomplishments .

Talented :- Ever since a man named Ayrton Senna stepped in the cockpit the world has said 'Who in the blue hell could be more talented ?' The answer came from a man named Michael Schumacher in Belgium , Spa Francorchamps , 1991 ! Having done a lap of Spa on a cycle he tells Eddie Jordan he has great experience of driving at Spa and guess what he beats his team mate at his first attemt . The world is taken aback as spontaneous talent was shown in this man ! The rest is as they say history . We all know what he can do in a racing car !

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Uk2p2nRK-p4

Quick :- A man posessed who wants just one thing in every session . That top spot ! He has been amazingly quick everytime he graces his cockpit and the ability to quench out that absolute final thousandth of a second for 15 years with such amazing consistency is just phenomenol . He ruthlessly beat all his opponents in the late 90's in cars that were not half as efficient as his rivals and he did'nt do that for one session or two sessions , he just did that every time !

Monaco Grand Prix , 1996 , Qualifying : - A car not worth a top 5 spot is taken to pole by the man they call Schumacher !

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HN2iwSCnr...elated&search= - Part I
http://youtube.com/watch?v=izb_Ux4Xd...elated&search= - Part II

Technically Genius :- 'He is curious about everything and wants to know everything'. Words of Todt when Schu joined Ferrari still humming in my ears ! He has made a habbit of beating people in the pits ! If he pits first watch out for his out lap , if later watch out for his in laps , and if its close watch out for both !


http://youtube.com/watch?v=geR84PgPqaM - Schumacher pitting first - Leapfrogs Raikkonen with blinding sector times !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVVoJNnbXA4 - Schumacher pitting second - Leapfrogs Alonso with blinding lap times to win

Overtaking Abilities :- Only people who have'nt watched him race say he cannot overtake . How can you forget him overtaking Alesi in the final moments of a race on the outside , how can you forget him overtaking Hakkinen at Monza 2000 , Him overtaking DC at Indy , Him overtaking Montoya 'n' number of times and finally Monaco 2006

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVVoJNnbXA4 - Schu nailing Alesi !
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5bEzWiit5jI - Schu passing Hakkinen !

Temperament :- Even in absolute pressure cookers this man is ice cool , many say he crumbles , I say they are fools ! To have the coolness to avoid and ignore what your arch-rival says about you with such distain and to have the entire world making a big deal out of your decision yet fending all that off and coming up trumps is one cool character ! Drives like Imola , 2006 make my point more emphatic

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WQJkztGLzyQ

Motivation :- To have been so competetive for 15 years , driven to limits , pushed no bounds , competed for 11 championship titles , won 7 with one hanging in the balance , led 3000 laps , won 90 races , have 75 fastest laps , above 1000 championship points and won a single event 8 times are numbers that mirror amazing , focus and motivation . Even at age 37 he stands more motivated and determined than a young champion at 25 and perhaps in his prime . The hallmark of a champion !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNXfbVHy_6w

Presence of Mind :- I can guarantee Schumacher made a mistake at Monaco , 2006 but he knew he had to manufacture something out of that mistake and he nearly stole pole position ! But i will mention you a clean and cool instance

For his first win , Schumacher used his own team mate as a moving chicane when he times his pit stops to perfection as a younster leap frogging everyone Senna included and Herbert too


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdj4KDatDTg
(Video may not open correctly , youtube error)

His Impact on the Sport :- I need not enhance on this as there are an amazing amount of people who started watching for Schumacher and will finish watching with him . However even mighty Bernie says that the sport will be affected but F1 will go on ! Yes , and he will take a million hearts with him . Stats prove that F1 watchers have increased like hell since he took over from Senna .

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ypAqUXi2CH8 - The champion - 2000 The best season as far as watching !

His Accomplishments :- 7 World Titles and Counting , 90 Race-Wins and Counting , 3000 Lead Laps , 75 Fastest Laps , 66 Poles , 8 Single Race Wins , 13 Race wins in a season and countless more records ! The man has done it all !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sebg81ec_Tk -

There are many sportspersons who come flash there magic and ultimately leave ..... They leave a mark ....

MICHAEL , (Forever the Best)


Credits :- Kushal