Engineering Education in India

[prasath_digit]

What is the quality & standard of engineering education in our country? Almost everyone who completes their +2 falls into engineering like heards. I've heard in many arguments that engineering education in our country is very outdated. Apart from the top colleges, what about the other colleges? what abt the quality of the teaching faculty?. Does engineering students really get the knowledge that is required for a typical person to be touted as an 'Engineer'? or they are just gulping the text book and vomiting at the examination hall to pile up more marks & grades?. Be HONEST Thanx.

[XTerminator]

Dunno about the rest of India,but the less we talk about the Mumbai University aided engineering colleges,the better

[furious_gamer]

Its like, if someone not willing to study will choose engineering and pass out easily. Yup, thats the standard of the engineering education. One of my professor didn't knew virtual function in Java and he took EJB for us. Its like WTF!!!

[prasath_digit]

Originally Posted by rajkumar_pb

One of my professor didn't knew virtual function in Java and he took EJB for us. Its like WTF!!!

Oh! My GOD

BTW Hey Rajkumar check ur PM...

[celldweller1591]

Engineering in India has taken up a new shape. Educational institutions are running business and are less interested in Studies and professionalism anymore (considering private colleges only). I can see many students mugging around everywhere(story of every college). Not everyone is meant to be an engineer. You should choose it only if you have your own passion in this field and not bcoz your parents or your neighbour told you to do ! Clearing B.Tech from a university doesnt make you a real engineer. You attitude towards technology,your subject knowledge (apart from books) and your greed for knowledge and learning new techniques makes you one.

[AcceleratorX]

IMO, Engineering education in general in our country lacks a lot.....the faculty and syllabi is completely out of line with the industry.....Even when talking about NITs (I don't know about IITs), people have often observed that the teachers lack industrial experience and are not so interested in teaching and learning about their subject as they are in collecting their monthly paycheck.

Ten, twenty years ago, engineering was a decent course - today it's just a prestige-oriented course. The syllabi have been progressively changed to meet the requirements of the faculty - more mathematics and rote-oriented and less conceptual, just so that correction and evaluation becomes easier since it requires less study.

Anyone who studies engineering will know how the teachers are - so I will not elaborate further on it. However, I did notice that it is more common in popular fields like Electrical/Electronics and Computer/IT. I feel that the primary reason for this is the lack of proper conceptual syllabi as well as more mathematically-oriented syllabus, plus a distinct lack of interest in technology and research by engineering students....The same students, after all, become teachers later - and the lack of concepts then becomes apparent......

It is actually easy to clear B.Tech with top marks if you are a "rattoo" (), but that doesn't give you any guarantee that you have any skills at all.....In the end, B.Tech students give the most surprises, where often the ones with lower marks perform practical tasks much better than the toppers.....It's a tough pill to swallow but in my experience it is quite true!

All things said, only understanding the concepts and learning to design will truly make you an engineer. The mathematics is purely secondary IMO, in any job.

[prasath_digit]

Originally Posted by celldweller1591

Engineering in India has taken up a new shape. Educational institutions are running business and are less interested in Studies and professionalism anymore (considering private colleges only). I can see many students mugging around everywhere(story of every college). Not everyone is meant to be an engineer. You should choose it only if you have your own passion in this field and not bcoz your parents or your neighbour told you to do ! Clearing B.Tech from a university doesnt make you a real engineer. You attitude towards technology,your subject knowledge (apart from books) and your greed for knowledge and learning new techniques makes you one.

well said.....apart from a few selected institutions & colleges, engineering is just business for the others. the majority of student's attitude towards technology & engineering subject is pathetic, they just wan to show tat they've studied some s***. most people don't measure engineering education by value these days, but by money, they get into engineering to make more & more money....total s***.

---------- Post added at 11:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

Originally Posted by AcceleratorX

IMO, Engineering education in general in our country lacks a lot.....the faculty and syllabi is completely out of line with the industry.....Even when talking about NITs (I don't know about IITs), people have often observed that the teachers lack industrial experience and are not so interested in teaching and learning about their subject as they are in collecting their monthly paycheck.

Ten, twenty years ago, engineering was a decent course - today it's just a prestige-oriented course. The syllabi have been progressively changed to meet the requirements of the faculty - more mathematics and rote-oriented and less conceptual, just so that correction and evaluation becomes easier since it requires less study.

Anyone who studies engineering will know how the teachers are - so I will not elaborate further on it. However, I did notice that it is more common in popular fields like Electrical/Electronics and Computer/IT. I feel that the primary reason for this is the lack of proper conceptual syllabi as well as more mathematically-oriented syllabus, plus a distinct lack of interest in technology and research by engineering students....The same students, after all, become teachers later - and the lack of concepts then becomes apparent......

It is actually easy to clear B.Tech with top marks if you are a "rattoo" (), but that doesn't give you any guarantee that you have any skills at all.....In the end, B.Tech students give the most surprises, where often the ones with lower marks perform practical tasks much better than the toppers.....It's a tough pill to swallow but in my experience it is quite true!

All things said, only understanding the concepts and learning to design will truly make you an engineer. The mathematics is purely secondary IMO, in any job.

Ya well said AcceleratorX, most of the engineering colleges nowadays are turning out highly skilled barbarians Its not Bachelor of Engineering ( B.E )anymore, its Bachelor of Prestige ( B.P )

B.E = B.P ( Bachelor of Prestige )

[gopi_vbboy]

yup its upto us to become engineer...we shud not depend on coll faculty...rather be independent n learn...thats wat i learn in first year...engineering teaches not how to become engineer but ime management,leadership,ability to be independent,

---------- Post added at 12:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 PM ----------

even in iit some profs suck...but that doesn mean whole iit is waste..

.we have to get best from the best resources available in the given time...

[confused]

^^yeah i guess first 2 years of hostel life@engg college taught me more abt life than the rest of my life put together....

[furious_gamer]

Originally Posted by confused

^^yeah i guess first 2 years of hostel life@engg college taught me more abt life than the rest of my life put together....

This isn't about learning independently. Not everyone has that ability. Do we learn AI like concepts on our own? Yes, we can, but it will take ages and there you need someone to teach you. Atleast they need to initiate you towards that. Its very obvious that one who is going to teach, must know the concepts. Even me in my office, had any chance to teach to my team members, i first prepare well (eventhough i worked on the same domain), so that i can explain more in depth. But why dont a prof not trying this.

Ofcourse i learnt almost all programming concepts on my own and with some help of trainer(in some training centre), but still i feel that i lack in other fields like Electronics. I like it a lot, but didn't get a chance to know even the basics(i am I.T). Even i had around 5 Electronics papers, but all of them were mugged up by me as the prof's really sucked at that. All in all, Engineering is about learning things whether depend on someone, or independent, if you're a rattoo....

[confused]

Originally Posted by rajkumar_pb

This isn't about learning independently. Not everyone has that ability. Do we learn AI like concepts on our own? Yes, we can, but it will take ages and there you need someone to teach you. Atleast they need to initiate you towards that. Its very obvious that one who is going to teach, must know the concepts. Even me in my office, had any chance to teach to my team members, i first prepare well (eventhough i worked on the same domain), so that i can explain more in depth. But why dont a prof not trying this.

Ofcourse i learnt almost all programming concepts on my own and with some help of trainer(in some training centre), but still i feel that i lack in other fields like Electronics. I like it a lot, but didn't get a chance to know even the basics(i am I.T). Even i had around 5 Electronics papers, but all of them were mugged up by me as the prof's really sucked at that. All in all, Engineering is about learning things whether depend on someone, or independent, if you're a rattoo....

read slowly...... carefully!!!
u cant expect the college professor to u teach you time management, people management, emotional intelligence, self-discipline, the hunger to succeed and the will to go on with all the odds stacked against you. Thats what i am talking about, not ur electron-proton ka puree!!

[prasath_digit]

Originally Posted by confused

read slowly...... carefully!!!
u cant expect the college professor to u teach you time management, people management, emotional intelligence, self-discipline, the hunger to succeed and the will to go on with all the odds stacked against you. Thats what i am talking about, not ur electron-proton ka puree!!

which means ultimately it all depends on the person's attitude, not his education...

[furious_gamer]

Originally Posted by confused

read slowly...... carefully!!!
u cant expect the college professor to u teach you time management, people management, emotional intelligence, self-discipline, the hunger to succeed and the will to go on with all the odds stacked against you. Thats what i am talking about, not ur electron-proton ka puree!!

Ofcourse these things was learn by one's own experience.

I learn it by third year only... Slow learner..

[Techn0crat]

Almost everybody around me is doing B.E. and running for M.B.A.
Few years later India will be country of engineers and MBAs

[Psychosocial]

Am I the only kid who dosen't want to become an enginneer out there ?

[AcceleratorX]

Originally Posted by Psychosocial

Am I the only kid who dosen't want to become an enginneer out there ?

I think there are a lot of people out there who never wanted to become engineers but were pushed/forced into it by the education system or parents.....I think children are being "brainwashed" today towards these careers of engineering and medicine.

In my opinion, only those with interest should be allowed admission - and not just interest in the technology but rather an interest in how things work.

Today, most of the "engineers" passing out (as well as scientists, now that I think about it) just do an MBA and get some high-ranking manager job - usually having NOTHING to do with their technical education. Less than 15% of graduates end up doing serious research after finishing their degrees. If everyone was so "interested" in doing engineering, we would see more people working in the technical line, as well as higher quality teachers. We can all see that this just isn't happening.

In the end, I think parents, adults, counselors, teachers, students - all of them think not in terms of one's interest but in terms of pure cash - "How much money am I going to get?". The type or kind of job doesn't really matter - the pay does. Now since the B.Tech/MBBS degree guarantees a good pay, it's no surprise to see people flocking all the way to study these courses, totally ignoring any other interest they may have had just so they can get easy, quick cash (can't blame them though - money is important!). And there is also the matter of prestige - there is some prestige attached to B.Tech and MBBS degrees.

In the end, I have seen several people who said that they didn't want to be engineers and they'd probably not study it if they had a second chance, but again - they do not complain at all since their current job pays very well.

[Raghav Talwar]

I've seen colleges where the mecho (mechanical engg) prof didn't know english. Had I studied with that ass, I would have found he doesn't know engg either.

For all we know, he may not even have passes his BE degree!

[furious_gamer]

Originally Posted by AcceleratorX

I think there are a lot of people out there who never wanted to become engineers but were pushed/forced into it by the education system or parents.....I think children are being "brainwashed" today towards these careers of engineering and medicine.

In my opinion, only those with interest should be allowed admission - and not just interest in the technology but rather an interest in how things work.

Today, most of the "engineers" passing out (as well as scientists, now that I think about it) just do an MBA and get some high-ranking manager job - usually having NOTHING to do with their technical education. Less than 15% of graduates end up doing serious research after finishing their degrees. If everyone was so "interested" in doing engineering, we would see more people working in the technical line, as well as higher quality teachers. We can all see that this just isn't happening.

In the end, I think parents, adults, counselors, teachers, students - all of them think not in terms of one's interest but in terms of pure cash - "How much money am I going to get?". The type or kind of job doesn't really matter - the pay does. Now since the B.Tech/MBBS degree guarantees a good pay, it's no surprise to see people flocking all the way to study these courses, totally ignoring any other interest they may have had just so they can get easy, quick cash (can't blame them though - money is important!). And there is also the matter of prestige - there is some prestige attached to B.Tech and MBBS degrees.

In the end, I have seen several people who said that they didn't want to be engineers and they'd probably not study it if they had a second chance, but again - they do not complain at all since their current job pays very well.

Absolutely true. And i think among 45 in my class, i'm the only one who is willingly join the course as i like programming a lot and enjoy doing VB and Java. And i've seen many of my friends just doing this for their parents wish and for some other reasons. Pure B$. They still didn't learn a bit about programming...

[RavS]

Thanks prasath_digit for starting this thread. Because of late, I have really been frustrated by my engineering life. I hope this thread will have active listeners, so I can vent off my frustration if the thread remains alive.

Anyway, till now what I have read here, 2 things are clear:
1. The quality of Engineering education in India is path3tic. (Seeing so many institutes, someday I would like to open an Engineering college of mine)

2. Our teachers sock at their job.

I thought only I had the hardest luck getting these types of teachers, but hearing stories of u people, I actually am feeling good

A few people said that we should be self dependent in Engineering. Now, while I completely agree with that, but then I wonder, why are there any teachers in colleges.

I mean just tell the students, "hey this is ur syllabus, these are the prescribed books, come back 3 months later for ur final exams". I think students will be able to score better this way.

[furious_gamer]

Originally Posted by RavS

Thanks prasath_digit for starting this thread. Because of late, I have really been frustrated by my engineering life. I hope this thread will have active listeners, so I can vent off my frustration if the thread remains alive.

Anyway, till now what I have read here, 2 things are clear:
1. The quality of Engineering education in India is path3tic. (Seeing so many institutes, someday I would like to open an Engineering college of mine)

Originally Posted by RavS

2. Our teachers sock at their job.

I thought only I had the hardest luck getting these types of teachers, but hearing stories of u people, I actually am feeling good

What a thought? The same for every engg students... Even during my college days i think the other college in my city is good, but when i heard about that by a friend of mine who studied there, i was happy that the quality is same there. Looks childish, but the fact we feel less painful after hearing this.

Originally Posted by RavS

A few people said that we should be self dependent in Engineering. Now, while I completely agree with that, but then I wonder, why are there any teachers in colleges.
I mean just tell the students, "hey this is ur syllabus, these are the prescribed books, come back 3 months later for ur final exams". I think students will be able to score better this way.

Not exactly. I used to bunk college thrice in a week.(3/5). But still got a decent percentage but other guys with me, its not the same. Still they need someone to knock their head and push the subject into their mind. So it depends. But IMO students are way smarter than engg professors. My friend used to told me that i teach OOPS better than our teacher.

[Psychosocial]

I want to do something that I like. Fortunately, as of now atleast, my parents aren't forcing me into a particular field. My dad is a BCom, BA, LLb himself and he knows how all this works. And he also knows pretty well that I would never make it as an engineer coz I suck at Math. I would suffocate with all that Math around me .

[furious_gamer]

^^
Its great that your dad knows your potential. So better join a course which you like most. If you choose engg for name sake then you will regret for that.

[confused]

Originally Posted by RavS

I mean just tell the students, "hey this is ur syllabus, these are the prescribed books, come back 3 months later for ur final exams". I think students will be able to score better this way.

thats what happens in BITS Pilani.



but with such freedom, most cant fight the urge of distractions like booze/drugs/girls/internet/pr0n & end up wasting their time & parents money. Few manage to use the time constructively and excel.

[dreamcatcher]

Yeam but then th prescription isnt always suited to all colleges. To inculcate this feature you have to make accomodation compulsory in hostels, otherwise day scholars would be in grave danger of lagging behind their peers, given the hostelites shall have 24x7 access to the teachers.
So, its not always feasible. I suggest all colleges be rated according to their infrastructure, faculty and management and ranked thereby. Also scrap state entrances and make a common entrance test for all.

[Liverpool_fan]

Originally Posted by RavS

I mean just tell the students, "hey this is ur syllabus, these are the prescribed books, come back 3 months later for ur final exams". I think students will be able to score better this way.

Yes but there should still be classes. It should just be optional to attend them (i.e. no attendance crap).

[thewisecrab]

Originally Posted by Psychosocial

Am I the only kid who dosen't want to become an enginneer out there ?

No. At your age (10th std) I was more confused than the commentators trying to figure out Ravidra Jadeja's exact role in cricket.

Go for an aptitude test lad, your dad doesnt look like the pushy type. He'll be more than willing to support you when the time comes if you talk to him.

I have friends who tried/are in engineering (ffs and genuine) The former quit after 2years of intensive coaching after 12th (are doing BMM, BFM) and the latter are one the THE happiest bunch ever known. Same goes for medical, commerce. Arts is easy street, so I havent come across anyone who's unhappy with the stream.

Go for an aptitude test, and follow what you LIKE. Not what everyone is doing. You'll regret it.

Originally Posted by AcceleratorX

I think there are a lot of people out there who never wanted to become engineers but were pushed/forced into it by the education system or parents.....I think children are being "brainwashed" today towards these careers of engineering and medicine.

In my opinion, only those with interest should be allowed admission - and not just interest in the technology but rather an interest in how things work.

Today, most of the "engineers" passing out (as well as scientists, now that I think about it) just do an MBA and get some high-ranking manager job - usually having NOTHING to do with their technical education. Less than 15% of graduates end up doing serious research after finishing their degrees. If everyone was so "interested" in doing engineering, we would see more people working in the technical line, as well as higher quality teachers. We can all see that this just isn't happening.

In the end, I think parents, adults, counselors, teachers, students - all of them think not in terms of one's interest but in terms of pure cash - "How much money am I going to get?". The type or kind of job doesn't really matter - the pay does. Now since the B.Tech/MBBS degree guarantees a good pay, it's no surprise to see people flocking all the way to study these courses, totally ignoring any other interest they may have had just so they can get easy, quick cash (can't blame them though - money is important!). And there is also the matter of prestige - there is some prestige attached to B.Tech and MBBS degrees.

In the end, I have seen several people who said that they didn't want to be engineers and they'd probably not study it if they had a second chance, but again - they do not complain at all since their current job pays very well.

Well worded. Though its all about putting money on the table, if you do what you hate, its as good as watching Ravindra Jadeja wonder if he's playing cricket or golf, coz it's been torture to figure that out till date.

You are BOUND to make money if you do what you like. That I'm confident of.

Speaking of which, I hope to join this thread soon as a qualified undergrad engineer

[RavS]

Originally Posted by rajkumar_pb

Not exactly. I used to bunk college thrice in a week.(3/5). But still got a decent percentage but other guys with me, its not the same. Still they need someone to knock their head and push the subject into their mind. So it depends. But IMO students are way smarter than engg professors. My friend used to told me that i teach OOPS better than our teacher.

You used to bunk 3 days out of 5!! Lucky you. Because I can't think of bunking more than 3 classes per week as in my college the minimum attendance required is 70%, otherwise they shoot a letter to the parents, and parents have to come and meet the professors. ( I am sure in other colleges and universities, the condition would be worse.)

And I can't understand the logic of this, because the teachers themselves aren't motivated to teach their subjects. So, after 5 mins of lecture, we start asking for time! Some people have literally slept sitting on the first desk

I don't know about your friend, but I damn hell can teach a few subjects better than my teachers! Now, I am not bragging here, but one can't help when your professors aren't specialist and don't know anything more than whats written in books.

Originally Posted by confused

thats what happens in BITS Pilani.

but with such freedom, most cant fight the urge of distractions like booze/drugs/girls/internet/pr0n & end up wasting their time & parents money. Few manage to use the time constructively and excel.

I thought i was just hypothesizing, but does that really happen in BITS
Anyway, what I said isn't feasible. Because if that does start to happen, my University will better start calling itself IGNOU!

What I meant was that, we should be given a prescribed syllabus and books. And just let us decide when and whose classes we want to attend. I mean I am not attempting to become the next Education Minister here, but aren't we grown up to decide whats good for us.

Originally Posted by dreamcatcher

Yeam but then th prescription isnt always suited to all colleges. To inculcate this feature you have to make accomodation compulsory in hostels, otherwise day scholars would be in grave danger of lagging behind their peers, given the hostelites shall have 24x7 access to the teachers.
So, its not always feasible. I suggest all colleges be rated according to their infrastructure, faculty and management and ranked thereby. Also scrap state entrances and make a common entrance test for all.

I tell you what, when I took admission in my college, I was told that it's one of the best in the University (according to some people made ranking). But later I came to know that all colleges in my University were worse. Mine was better, because it was just bad.

So unless, the ranking is done by some reputable organization, it's of no use. BTW do u think, fairly ranking 1000s of engg. colleges (good, bad and ugly) is even possible?

Originally Posted by Liverpool_fan

Yes but there should still be classes. It should just be optional to attend them (i.e. no attendance crap).

I agree, because not all teachers are bad. From my own experience I can tell, that if the teacher is good enough, students themselves come to the classes, not for attendance but to hear the lecture!

Originally Posted by thewisecrab

No. At your age (10th std) I was more confused than the commentators trying to figure out Ravidra Jadeja's exact role in cricket.


Well worded. Though its all about putting money on the table, if you do what you hate, its as good as watching Ravindra Jadeja wonder if he's playing cricket or golf, coz it's been torture to figure that out till date.

Dude you don't like Ravidra Jadeja, wee bit. Do you?

[celldweller1591]

IMO what Mr. Arindham Chaudhary has said in the following video is totally correct http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oevC...layer_embedded . Watch it, listen to the man very carefully

[furious_gamer]

Originally Posted by RavS

You used to bunk 3 days out of 5!! Lucky you. Because I can't think of bunking more than 3 classes per week as in my college the minimum attendance required is 70%, otherwise they shoot a letter to the parents, and parents have to come and meet the professors. ( I am sure in other colleges and universities, the condition would be worse.)

There is no attendance crap in my college. There is a way to compromise for that, in the form of fine .

Originally Posted by RavS

And I can't understand the logic of this, because the teachers themselves aren't motivated to teach their subjects. So, after 5 mins of lecture, we start asking for time! Some people have literally slept sitting on the first desk

Out of 10, only 1 is(rarely ) motivated in teaching profession. One of my professor who taught me Java was good among the rest of them, in the four years. Look, how worse the situation was.Apart from that, i used to attend classes , if the professor(ofcourse female ) looks good or hot.(We had around 6 proff's looks so hot )

Originally Posted by RavS

I don't know about your friend, but I damn hell can teach a few subjects better than my teachers! Now, I am not bragging here, but one can't help when your professors aren't specialist and don't know anything more than whats written in books.

That depends. If i have a good knowledge in OOPS, i can teach whoever needs help. If someone is good at Maths III (), he can teach us. Simple.

---------- Post added at 05:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 PM ----------

Originally Posted by celldweller1591

IMO what Mr. Arindham Chaudhary has said in the following video is totally correct http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oevC...layer_embedded . Watch it, listen to the man very carefully

Thats crap. I never believed IIPM and its full of B$.

[confused]

yeah i agree its crap, but IMO Arindham Choudhary is also a brilliant marketeer; i have a uncle (who was in top positions in a couple of telecom companies before retiring) who once suggested i read his article "Dare to think beyond IITs/IIMs" while i was toiling away my @ss preparing for IITJEE. I was like WTFBBQ + ROFLCOPTER.

Seriously if even people in the know fall for such crap, what can be said for the common junta??