Meddling the Middle Classes

[iMav]

Courts have allowed the reservation bill to pass! a draft that i decided to complete after watching the news today

Reservation is back in talks and with it the pros and cons of Reservations. Politicians pushing for reservation and the opposition also not going against them, well its not their fault how can some one go against reservation when doing so results in votes. Who are we kidding here, Reservation directly translates into votes, who wouldn’t want to do that or want to go against it.

Now here’s the real reasons if one thinks about why reservations are needed – Political Mileage; Yes many will say that’s not the case, under-privileged also deserve education of high standards and reservation gives them that opportunity; the “below poverty line” cannot afford the education and therefore need reservation. Well guess what I agree with them but is reservation the only option – Hell NO!!!

Let’s see –

Why is there need of Reservation?

Because there are not enough seats available, the number of seats available for institutes like IIMs & IITs is as it is not sufficient for the current number of students who apply and the cut-off just keeps on rising year by year at the same time the hard work put in by the students, but due to the crunch in seats even those with 98% have absolutely no or little hope or getting into IIM-A, however if you are a member of the SC/ST Club then voila you are lucky my friend no worries you just might get into the institute – who cares what your ability is; that certificate of caste/tribe or merit I may say gets you that seat and deprives the one who has worked his ass for it.
The SC/ST certificate is now becoming the certificate of merit, so get yourself 1 it will definitely increase your chances by many folds and will reduce the hard work required by you to clear the paper.

Sorry, where were we, ya – The need for Reservation. Its pretty obvious that the need arises because of lack of seats and the other is that rationally the under-privileged don’t have enough monetary resources to prepare for such exams. Yes, that is true – an SC/ST does not have the resources but then again is the answer Reservation?

Lack of resources and less marks but they still stand a chance – Now is this fair to them or unfair to the 1 who has the resources and also more marks?

Its obvious who chooses what, the choice depends on the category you fall in. So what is the government doing? For 1 they are planning to increase the Quotas. What does this do u ask. Nothing much other than giving the chance to an under-privileged to get into an institute where he dreams but cant get into based on his own merit. So what’s wrong? Everything. Why? Because you are putting some 1 in between a group where every 1 has secured a place based on merit and their friends have been denied a place because there is some 1 having a certificate of “merit” of a different kind. The possible problems: Ability to co-operate; Ability to cope up; Ability to settle in.

Now all of the above has been discussed and said by a lot of people on various shows and interviews when we had the big ‘Rang De’ against reservations with medical students giving up syringes and picking up placards for a cause. People also said that government is playing vote bank politics by introducing Reservations, our politicians being true to themselves (that’s the only people who they are true to – themselves) said – No, its not vote bank politics.

It is vote bank politics and it has everything to do with the Middle Class and not the lower class. Let me explain why. Over the years the number of people who turn out to vote is less, it does increase but it is less. The metropolitans don’t make the government at the center. Bombay, Bangalore, Delhi, Calcutta, Gurgaon or other major cities don’t make the government that sits in Delhi. This government is made by the people in the smaller or now called regional states of India. We have seen how Mayavati, Modi, Karunanidhi and Amma influence the core of Indian politics. The middle class is not their vote bank of the people who vote for them, it is the same people for whom Reservation is being asked for and this is the only reason why the Middle Class is being treated the way it is.

Why cant the govt. start more colleges, more schools? More colleges, more seats, less reservation, everyone happy.

This simply baffles that even the courts have allowed this to pass, the govt. feels that bringing in quotas is much better than starting new colleges, making reservations is better than letting private corporate the freedom to run and start institutes. Making institutes will not generate buzz, it will not translate into votes and the middle class will only blame the govt. and then get back to their daily lives. So what the hell, why not do it and get ourselves the numbers to form the govt.

The reservations don’t affect the students currently in IITs, IIMs or AIIMs but will affect the next lot of students who are going to go to the institutes but these guys are busy preparing for their exams. Their parents are gonna tell them to study harder and get in rather than protest, the teachers give a damn, their job is teaching – who they teach is not their concern. The courts have done nothing. I feel agitated about this and can do nothing more than just write this.

I am ashamed of myself

My blog (http://my-cyber-home.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!7A9D87FA129538EF!582.entry)

[ray|raven]

^We live in a sad and terrible time , my friend.

[slugger]

haven't they excluded the creamy layer from the reservation list?

anyway it is the creamy layer candidates who bag most of the OBC seats. the poor OBC are left standing in the sun no matter what

They should make amendments to exclude the creamy layer from the list of beneficiaries

IMHO, only then will the law hold any signficant meaning of uplifting the downtrodden

[iMav]

^^ the courts have urged the govt not to provide this for MPs and some other govt. servants

[Pathik]

F**k*n politicos do it just to get more votes.
This means hell for unreserved *Upper classes*.

[iMav]

reservation is almost 49.2 f*cking % :shock:

[slugger]

^^ the courts have urged the govt not to provide this for MPs and some other govt. servants

what MPs and Govt servents!!!!

my classmates pop works in the Gulf [not blue-collar], earn truckloads of cash. yet when it comes to taking admission.. guess what certificate he furnishes :mad:

on top of it this guy has the gall to collect the cheque issued to him by the govt fom the college reimbursing his fees

[ray|raven]

Reservations will live as long as there are vote-bank politics in this country.

IMHO, we need a dictator for a certain period of time; will clear out the crap that our country's full of.

[kumarmohit]

Party's over people.

Time to move to United States or if you are like me, to the United Kingdom though I would move to Sweden too considering it is the country to host thepiratebay!

[T159]

better go to iceland

[legolas]

I remember the day when I was waiting to take my course for college....
I was 295.4/300 and he was 192.8 :) He was standing behind me!! :D

[T159]

^^things like this happens, cutoff is too low for others

[Pathik]

Bloody Arjun Singh
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/historic-day-i-have-been-vindicated-arjun/63037-3.html

[abhinandh]

IMHO, we need a dictator for a certain period of time; will clear out the crap that our country's full of.
well said.i too feel the same.

i was studying until now and my dad told me the f***ing news and lost my mood....:mad: :mad:

damn those lame idiots... no political party has the courage to oppose it.

[m-jeri]

FCUK............we h ave to pay our ass through fees and they rubbing their hnads in glee getting everywhere free....god we all are feeling sorry tht we were born into a good family....

do u know tht the most reputed govt college in kerala CET tvm was supposed to be IIT last year...the review borad said go ahead but the college staff put forth a condn and local stud council...u know wat ther shld be reservations ther too....review board said piss off this is IIT not any govt college...they said no thanks we are goin back....

atleast reservations shld be kept out of places like this...these are places where merit is the only measure not caste....

[anand1]

No comment :) its better for not to comment.

[iMav]

guys guys relax, get urself the new certificate of merit -The OBC Certificate, look at the benefits: we wont have to study as much, more time see movies/porn/forums/friends, fees will be less

[gunda_26]

"Apartheid "regime of India.Better go to south Africa.

[slugger]

Well I just got to watch the telly now, it appears that the court has issued directives to leave the Creamy Layer out of the reservation benefits

the criteria of creamy layer is earning 2.5 lakhs pa - not a very difficult task for a freasher IMO

well it is obviously not an ideal world. but i guess by removing the creamy layer from the picture, you ensure that only the economically challenged people can claim benefits of reservation

in the menwhile the govt should work towards improving the educational infrastructure of the country. these things take time.

until that time reservation for the poor looks like an acceptable compromise


and for all those who fall in the General category

become a UT each sem. reservation or no reservation will not make any difference

[legolas]

guys guys relax, get urself the new certificate of merit -The OBC Certificate, look at the benefits: we wont have to study as much, more time see movies/porn/forums/friends, fees will be less
weirdly makes sense. we don't know where we came from, we don't know where we are going to... f*ck as much as you can in the middle! ;) :D

[praka123]

hmm...centre also going the taamil nadu way :x!give reservation upto 90%?

[legolas]

I don't know much reg. individual states... is TN one of the worst in this regard? I wouldn't be surprised though.

[kumarmohit]

I do not think that they are going to cross the 50% barrier. Human rights activists would go crazy and it would be an open flouting of the constitution!

[legolas]

^ ^ well, that makes me happy! :D

[infra_red_dude]

Why should reservations be there at all? Aren't we all human beings with our brainz in the same place? IMHO the govt. should give reservations to those people who haf kidneys in their skull for they are not that intelligent and hence require some slack in marks/work. For all those who haf their kidneys and brainz in the right place there should be no reservation!

Give incentives/reservations to the poor. Why should a student from the poor family be denied education juz coz he's unable to pay? Isn't it violation of right to freedom? A rich person producing an OBC cert. gets the best education for free. A poor student of the general category is working as a labourer only coz he was unable to study due to high fees. The same can be said about the reserved categories. We haf diff. % or reserv. for SC/ST/OBC. Why should a person from ST be denied education just coz quota is over? While an underdeserving SC candidate gets his seat? Clearly if at all there is reservation it should be there on the basis of economic status. There is no point in reservation. If the candidate is not fit for the course/work he should be shown the door, no matter whether he belongs to the General, upper caste, lower caste, sc/st/obc whatever! If you are not fit, fcuk off! But if you are fit and unable to get a seat due to high fees, then yes you should be given incentives...

Its high time we drag these bloody fscking SoB MF'ing politicians to the streets and frag them bigtime.. Urban Terror, anyone??!!!!

[iMav]

rakho reservation but 50 f*cking % obc/sc/st share 50% seats amongst themselves and then there are student with 90%+ who dont get admission coz there are so freaking many abv 90 itself, iit iim aiim fee hike is passed by 1 committee of the govt and then there is another committee of the same govt saying that fees are too hight they need reservation .... kya ch*tiya samajh rakha hai humko

[slugger]

no member from the other side i guess :)

getting very 1 sided

[ray|raven]

^Thats why its still in chit-chat :p

[slugger]

^Thats why its still in chit-chat :p

and in all likelyhood it will continue to remain here :D

...unless of course someone stands up and plays devil's advocate

[iMav]

what do u want from the other side .... that they dont have proper resources to study they dont have fees to pay for classes therefore they need less cut-offs and reservation

if they dont have resources doesnt mean that the ones who have them suffer, u want to put these dim wits in iims/iits then accommodate the others who worked their freaking a$$ off, we dont have seats for the deserving and u want the others to be given priority

[drgrudge]

Why are you blaming the govt? I thought that the people are the ones who voted them to power? When we have election, people cool off in "weekend getaways".

Don't tell that there are good politicians. What's stopping you from joining politics? We can stand for elections, we vote for the people we want.

The govt. take care of people who have voted and who will vote for them. Why should they bother about you? You were the one who enjoyed an extended holiday at Ooty, right?

[praka123]

most members from TN will be from OBC/SC/ST only!they are too busy enjoying the freebies,I suppose :rolleyes:

[slugger]

what do u want from the other side .... that they dont have proper resources to study they dont have fees to pay for classes therefore they need less cut-offs and reservation

i bet you won't have the guts to say this to your maid servent, gardener, rick/taxi drivers etc

and neither will i see you taking to the streets in protest and facing the water canon with your chest facing the canon (or for that matter any part your body facing the canon or lathi)

armchair revolutionaries we all are

[iMav]

Why are you blaming the govt? I thought that the people are the ones who voted them to power? When we have election, people cool off in "weekend getaways".

Don't tell that there are good politicians. What's stopping you from joining politics? We can stand for elections, we vote for the people we want.

The govt. take care of people who have voted and who will vote for them. Why should they bother about you? You were the one who enjoyed an extended holiday at Ooty, right?
govt will always be blamed and we cant do anything abt it, we are the middle class we are busy living our lives, we like to be squeezed in the local trains we like ppl stamping on out feet in the bus

the thing that surprises me is that the courts also found no problem with giving 50% seats to the so called sc/st/obc .... im seriously gonna find out whether i can get myself a obc certificate

and grudgy - as i hav siad earlier bombay/delhi/chennai dont make vote banks its the castes that win elections so add that to ur equation of ooty

i bet you won't have the guts to say this to your maid servent, gardener, rick/taxi drivers etc

and neither will i see you taking to the streets in protest and facing the water canon with your chest facing the canon

armchair revolutionaries we all arei said this in my original post itself ;) last para

[slugger]

i said this in my original post itself ;) last para

in comparison to the colourful responses that followed your post, the origianl completely slipped my attention :)

But IMO there is not point talking if you cant make the talk walk

if you so distressed by it, then get yourself into a position of power where you hob-nob with the power elite of the country and become person who is capable of dictating the countries policy decisions

talking about it and cursing and abusing the other side is IMO an exercise in futility

No MP IAS would ever have heard about thinkdigit forum and would'nt give a hoot to what we say withing the cosy confines of the forum :)

[drgrudge]

govt will always be blamed and we cant do anything abt it, we are the middle class we are busy living our lives, we like to be squeezed in the local trains we like ppl stamping on out feet in the bus

and grudgy - as i hav siad earlier bombay/delhi/chennai dont make vote banks its the castes that win elections so add that to ur equation of ooty
What busy? It hardly took 10-15 mins for me to vote in the last General Elections. Govt. know you're busy so they declare holiday.

[Pathik]

@sluggy
It's cos the bloody creamy layer wala idiots don't have the guts to argue over this. They ll be pawn3d.

[iMav]

if you so distressed by it, then get yourself into a position of power where you hob-nob with the power elite of the country and become person who is capable of dictating the countries policy decisions u have no idea how much i wanna get there

grudgy it took u 15 mins - it took these govt guys 7months and 4 visits from me to get my voter card made - all docs properly signed and given everything first time itself

[slugger]

@sluggy
It's cos the bloody creamy layer wala idiots don't have the guts to argue over this. They ll be pawn3d.

the creamy layer has been excluded anyway

they too in fact should start cursing the Supreme Court ruling...though for a different reason

though Ram Vil Paswan is making his displeasure known about this exclusion on telly...who knows, maybe the govt will oppose this SC directive Election year

[infra_red_dude]

You think politicians are elected by our votes?

Can someone explain to me the need for reservations? I'm not sarcastic or anything. I'm totally confused. Where are there reservations anyway?

[legolas]

But IMO there is not point talking if you cant make the talk walk

if you so distressed by it, then get yourself into a position of power where you hob-nob with the power elite of the country and become person who is capable of dictating the countries policy decisions

there is not point in talking about making a walk or even knowing it, if you don't start to talk. ( IF only Gandhi had thought like you and stopped fighting with non-violence for it dint yield into fruition initially...)
but then, you shouldn't be having any problems I guess, coz your opinion is to always go with the system, right?

[iMav]

there are no rights and wrongs - only power

[slugger]

there are no rights and wrongs - only power

exactly :D

[drgrudge]

grudgy it took u 15 mins - it took these govt guys 7months and 4 visits from me to get my voter card made - all docs properly signed and given everything first time itself
I also don't have voter card. I voted in the State and General Election with my Driving license. I don't think this voter ID is mandatory, EC themselves said any ID issued by the govt. (Driving License, Passport, etc..) is sufficient.

I hardly see any middle class people (leave alone the 'elite') at the election booth. IMO, it's because of us that we're in this issue.

[legolas]

Why are you blaming the govt? I thought that the people are the ones who voted them to power?

and I thought, India is a democratic country and that the government is for the people... without any discrimination :) and people retort against any potential injustice or conflicting opinions (at least the majority who are offended) to voice their concerns and to shed light into the issue and the government would be obliged to think/rethink and justify the issue laid and convince the people reg. the good the plan can lead to!! :D
there are no rights and wrongs - only power

good punch line for a movie! :D a few get brainwashed too! ;)

[iMav]

Can someone explain to me the need for reservations? I'm not sarcastic or anything. I'm totally confused. Where are there reservations anyway?

imagine sonia gandhi at a rally in UP bihar jharkhand saying:

humne paanch naye iit banaye

and now imagine her saying:

humne aap jaise *deprived* logon ke liye reservation karaye

- now whats gonna turn into more votes whats gonna get them more mileage

[slugger]

No matter which govt comes to power minority appeasement will contnue as long as they constitute a significant population of the country

This Reservation bill was passed in the Parliament with unanimous result...even the commies did not oppose the bill that is based on casteist lines

no party can oppose this bill and hope to win a seat the next election...sad and unfortunate it is but also equally true

[drgrudge]

You think politicians are elected by our votes?
Then? Yeah, they might bribe a few, give money and ask to vote for them but what the middle class and the upper class did during the election day?

With the paper ballots done away and EC given sufficient power, I don't think there's any rigging in the polls.

[iMav]

they simply cant oppose they do it they are screwed any party who opposes this bill is f*cked in elections

[infra_red_dude]

imagine sonia gandhi at a rally in UP bihar jharkhand saying:

humne paanch naye iit banaye

and now imagine her saying:

humne aap jaise *deprived* logon ke liye reservation karaye

- now whats gonna turn into more votes whats gonna get them more mileage

That is a political reason. What is the justification the govt. gives for implementing reservations? I mean, what is the motive behind reservations (the ideal motive I mean which is in the party's CMP).

[praka123]

middle class?I feel OP are saying about upper middle class :rolleyes:

[Pathik]

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/002200804101625.htm
Now why(TF) is Ramadoss disappointed by the exclusion of the creamy layer?

[iMav]

@ani

it is needed to improve the std of living and providing equal opportunities to all no matter what caste or creed they belong to

[drgrudge]

and I thought, India is a democratic country and that the government is for the people... without any discrimination :) and people retort against any potential injustice or conflicting opinions (at least the majority who are offended) to voice their concerns and to shed light into the issue and the government would be obliged to think/rethink and justify the issue laid and convince the people reg. the good the plan can lead to!! :D
Yes, I think you've learnt your lesson the hard way. Never mind, everyone make mistakes. Next time around don't vote for Congress, BJP, BSP, NCP, Left or whomever you think is not suitable to run the govt.

[legolas]

^ ^ to get attention! :o

[infra_red_dude]

it is needed to improve the std of living and providing equal opportunities to all no matter what caste or creed they belong to
How are they "providing equal opportunities to all" by implementing "reservations". Isn't reservations a fundamentally opposite thing what they wanna implement?

I mean.. equal opportunities with reservations??!!?? :lol:

[iMav]

Yes, I think you've learnt your lesson the hard way. Never mind, everyone make mistakes. Next time around don't vote for Congress, BJP, BSP, NCP, Left or whomever you think is not suitable to run the govt.u know what, when they were shifting to the electronic machines talks of having none of the above were there, but then the EC realised that putting this would result in a hung assembly and no proper govt will be formed and that is the reason why none of the abv is not included

[slugger]

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/002200804101625.htm
Now why(TF) is Ramadoss disappointed by the exclusion of the creamy layer?

that is because most of the economically poor OBC would be unable to fill up the seats
once they lose the chance the seats become available for the open category students

it is the Creamy layer who fill up magority of the OBC seats anyway

so in effect the bill in its current form will not act as a total minority appeasement decision

Mark my words Creamy layer will also be included with some ammendments to the law

[legolas]

Yes, I think you've learnt your lesson the hard way. Never mind, everyone make mistakes. Next time around don't vote for Congress, BJP, BSP, NCP, Left or whomever you think is not suitable to run the govt.
we all agree every1 makes mistakes. but your telling that "we elected the government so don't blame them" is what I find difficult to comprehend.
we elected the government to do good for us, realizing its democratic and that people will question the decisions if it is wrong or condescending, everyone makes mistakes. if they think its good, justify it. not with crazy talk. but with the good it will inflict upon the community to make the better world tomorrow!! :o

[iMav]

How are they "providing equal opportunities to all" by implementing "reservations". Isn't reservations a fundamentally opposite thing what they wanna implement?

I mean.. equal opportunities with reservations??!!?? :lol:im not saying its the govts who are saying this

[drgrudge]

u know what, when they were shifting to the electronic machines talks of having none of the above were there, but then the EC realised that putting this would result in a hung assembly and no proper govt will be formed and that is the reason why none of the abv is not included
I posted something and you commenting something? :p Can you be clear?

Moved to Fight Club.

[kumarmohit]

@ grudgy

I would happily contest in elections but the only thing is that where I live, the Municipal Councillor and MLA seats are reserved for women and parliamentary seat is reserved for SC.

This only leaves me open for Presidential elections but I am too young for that and moreover president does not have any real power in this regard in India.

[legolas]

I mean.. equal opportunities with reservations??!!?? :lol:
hahahahaa :D

how is this system in anyways helping the poor, who can't even finish schooling, let alone being interested in joining college... Isn't there where the problem is, which could be eradicated by providing scholarships, imposing fee regulations on institutions, monitoring and stuffs??

[slugger]

do you know, that you can actually go to the polling station and declare that you would not like to vote for any of the existing candidate. There is a clause that allows us to do that

If the magority of people choose this option, the political parties have to select new candidates for contesting

read it in JAM a long time back

[legolas]

@ grudgy

I would happily contest in elections but the only thing is that where I live, the Municipal Councillor and MLA seats are reserved for women and parliamentary seat is reserved for SC.

This only leaves me open for Presidential elections but I am too young for that and moreover president does not have any real power in this regard in India.
:lol: ROTFL

do you know, that you can actually go to the polling station and declare that you would not like to vote for any of the existing candidate. There is a clause that allows us to do that

If the magority of people choose this option, the political parties have to select new candidates for contesting

read it in JAM a long time back
Wow, I dint know about this. I hope this really happens when/if it has to! :-|

[infra_red_dude]

I really don't understand one thing.. the Govt. is openly calling the so-called backward classes incapable of doing anything unless reservations are provided!! (wtf is a backward class??!!! we all are equal.. we are human beings..)

I wonder who would liked to be called as a backward class.. isn't it a blot on his/her face to be called as someone backward? The Govt. is publically insulting them by calling backward!

I stand by my statement that if a person is not fit for a course/job, no reservation is gonna uplift him or her. That person should be shown the door, be it from the so-called "upper caste" or from "lower caste"!

[slugger]

y was it moved to fight club? :rolleyes:

everybody seems to agree that Reservations suxxx

[iMav]

do you know, that you can actually go to the polling station and declare that you would not like to vote for any of the existing candidate. There is a clause that allows us to do that

If the magority of people choose this option, the political parties have to select new candidates for contesting

read it in JAM a long time backfrom what i know is that there is no such option of none of the abv on the ballot boxes

I posted something and you commenting something? :p Can you be clear?

Moved to Fight Club.what i meant was that if we dont vote the 1 who we dont see fit, we wont have a govt ;)

[legolas]

^ ^ to add to Imav's point,
We are not expecting an ideal/perfect government.
We only expect an understanding and flexible government which respects the people's opinions.

@infra_red_dude, what you say is very right. Actually speaking, the government is publicly insulting the backward caste reg. their incapability (even though in reality its not the case) and instead of condemning this misdemeanor, we appreciate it (as long as we can enjoy the privileges)!! :D

Its like getting into a religion to gain the benefits or converting from 1 religion to another because the benefits in the other is more!

@slugger, I don't think so, playing the devil's advocate also means "fight" :D

[kumarmohit]

^^ like we have any government in the true sense of the word now!

[slugger]

from what i know is that there is no such option of none of the abv on the ballot boxes

it is not present on the EVM

u have to choose this option with the EC representative at the polling station. Your finger will even be inked for choosing this :D

[drgrudge]

I would happily contest in elections but the only thing is that where I live, the Municipal Councillor and MLA seats are reserved for women and parliamentary seat is reserved for SC.
Lol, this is interesting. I never knew that seats are reserved based on castes.

we all agree every1 makes mistakes. but your telling that "we elected the government so don't blame them" is what I find difficult to comprehend.
See here's the problem. See the party manifesto of Congress, BSP, BJP and even regional parties like DMK, AIADMK, PMK, etc... "When we come to power, we'll implement the reservation for OBCs". I think some party (TDP, I guess - not sure) said they'll implement reservations for backward Muslims and Christians also.

There was one party, Lok Partitran which didn't have anything like this. So who is to blame when you land up in this?


we elected the government to do good for us, realizing its democratic and that people will question the decisions if it is wrong or condescending, everyone makes mistakes. if they think its good, justify it. not with crazy talk. but with the good it will inflict upon the community to make the better world tomorrow!! :o
Isn't that subjective? If you're OBC person (or atleast have a certificate), you'll be happy. The govt. did good for me. :D

[kumarmohit]

And how is it going to help me?
Even if they would bring new ppl the ppl would still come there coz of the reservations.

[infra_red_dude]

from what i know is that there is no such option of none of the abv on the ballot boxes
Naah.. you can always tell them that you will NOT vote, in which case they will cast a proxy vote for you! ;)

what i meant was that if we dont vote the 1 who we dont see fit, we wont have a govt ;)
Frankly thats the best thing.. Its been about 3-4 months since there is no Govt. in Karnataka and we've never been so happy :)

[kumarmohit]

Lol, this is interesting. I never knew that seats are reserved based on castes.




Time to wake up grudgy my boy, matters have gone 0ut 0f Control.

[legolas]

Isn't that subjective? If you're OBC person (or at least have a certificate), you'll be happy. The govt. did good for me. :D
Well in that case, the government is not doing the good for people.
Its doing good for "one class of people"... which is perfectly good when it "doesn't affect any other class of people".

And that is what is not a visionary decision... which will further the development, progress and result in betterment.. Its a medieval illogical decision to stay in power.

[slugger]

ok found it

Rule 49O

49O. Elector deciding not to vote.-If an elector, after his electoral roll number has been duly entered in the register of voters in Form-17A and has put his signature or thumb impression thereon as required under sub-rule (1) of rule 49L, decided not to record his vote, a remark to this effect shall be made against the said entry in Form 17A by the presiding officer and the signature or thumb impression of the elector shall be obtained against such remark.


Source (http://archive.eci.gov.in/manuals/part5/stat2z_2.htm)

[kumarmohit]

again how does it help me?

[drgrudge]

I really don't understand one thing.. the Govt. is openly calling the so-called backward classes incapable of doing anything unless reservations are provided!! (wtf is a backward class??!!! we all are equal.. we are human beings..)

I wonder who would liked to be called as a backward class.. isn't it a blot on his/her face to be called as someone backward? The Govt. is publically insulting them by calling backward!

I stand by my statement that if a person is not fit for a course/job, no reservation is gonna uplift him or her. That person should be shown the door, be it from the so-called "upper caste" or from "lower caste"!
Didn't you study history? Heard Raja Ram Mohan Roy? The reservations are stuck here because the SCs, STs and the OBCs were 'ill treated' (barred from temples, jobs like sanitary or undertaker were given to them, untouchability was prevalent, education denied, etc..). Over a period of time, they were backward in the society. To make up for the loss, the reservation system was introduced long time back.

[iMav]

ok found it

Rule 49O


Source (http://archive.eci.gov.in/manuals/part5/stat2z_2.htm)hmmm interesting thank u ....elections here come to vote for no 1

[kumarmohit]

Me too! And I would be voting against reservations both literally and figuratively!

[legolas]

Didn't you study history? Heard Raja Ram Mohan Roy? The reservations are stuck here because the SCs, STs and the OBCs were 'ill treated' (barred from temples, jobs like sanitary or undertaker were given to them, untouchability was prevalent, education denied, etc..). Over a period of time, they were backward in the society. To make up for the loss, the reservation system was introduced long time back.
are they still? becoz the reservation keeps on increasing!! Doesn't it tell anything about the system then??

[slugger]

thinkdigit members should have their own seperate constituancy

everything will be perfect here :D

[drgrudge]

Well in that case, the government is not doing the good for people.
Its doing good for "one class of people"... which is perfectly good when it "doesn't affect any other class of people".

And that is what is not a visionary decision... which will further the development, progress and result in betterment.. Its a medieval illogical decision to stay in power.
You're not getting my point.

Congress tell they'll reserve 50% of the seats if they come to power. It's your choice if you want to vote for them.

Eventually Congress came to power. It's assumed that since people voted for us, they want us to implement reservations or atleast a majority of the people want it.


People, seriously go and vote in the next elections. It hardly takes 15 mins and usually I've good time seeing the chicks in the booth. :twisted:

[slugger]

are they still?

there are temples in the south and orissa where they are still barred from entry

a hole is cut through the wall for them to view and pray

[kumarmohit]

@ grudgy

The British ruled India for 190 years in a ruthless manner. Should we attack the island and make them pay back for something their predecessors did. No we do not do it. instead we take pleasure in hosting commonwealth games becuase they are a symbol of equality.

What is happening here is more revenge than repair! The general approach is incorrect.

[drgrudge]

Mohit and legolas -

Agreed that they still are not. But I just posted why the reservations are there. It was pointed to infra_red_dude's query.

I'm not saying reservations are bad (or good). All I want to say is because of us, we are in this issue now.

[legolas]

there are temples in the south and orissa where they are still barred from entry
a hole is cut through the wall for them to view and pray
so, what does the government do about it?

@grudgy, I get your point. the people who vote for congress knew what their policies were, is what you are insinuating. Well, yes, that is true. but, what I would like to say is, we can't agree with all the policies a party is canvassing.. Becoz, they try to cajole all the masses. We vote the best and hope they will hear our causes.

[kumarmohit]

Point ! We fcuked up the matters now it is our task to puit things right. Only thing is my condition is FUBAR.

And how do they check the person's caste before deciding of he enters or not. Do they carry i Cards? And even if such things happen, in how many temples? 5,10, 20, 100, 500 no chance of any more temples having such rules.

Why fcuk all the people for this?

[slugger]

so, what does the government do about it?


nothing at all. we still do not hava a Uniform civil code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_civil_code) in place

in our country the different people...different rules is actually endorsed by the state


And how do they check the person's caste before deciding of he enters or not. Do they carry i Cards? And even if such things happen, in how many temples? 5,10, 20, 100, 500 no chance of any more temples having such rules.

the places of worship in question are mostyl located in village semi-village regions where most people are known to the others and theor cast is public knowledge

but the fact that such a discrimiantion is still practised is the unfortunate part, because every region no matter how rural comes under the jurisdiction of the civic administration who has the authority to take actions against the offending parties practising this discrimination

But they do nothing about it

[iMav]

thinkdigit members should have their own seperate constituancy

everything will be perfect here :D

yes all be perfect thinkdigit constituency:

50% reservation for MS supporters
25% for OSS
25% for apple :D

[legolas]

nothing at all.
The government is so not actually interested in clearing the black dot with regard to "backward caste"... :( its a pity.
@mohit, very true, even if they weren't allowed, I don't think its security is that big to not go inside... you can always pretend to be a person from "forward" caste if you needed so badly to get inside.

[infra_red_dude]

Didn't you study history? Heard Raja Ram Mohan Roy? The reservations are stuck here because the SCs, STs and the OBCs were 'ill treated' (barred from temples, jobs like sanitary or undertaker were given to them, untouchability was prevalent, education denied, etc..). Over a period of time, they were backward in the society. To make up for the loss, the reservation system was introduced long time back.
Thats what I'm asking. How will reservations uplift them??!! Does it mean that because a certain section of people were "barred from temples, jobs like sanitary or undertaker were given to them, untouchability was prevalent, education denied, etc.." they were not humans anymore? A human brain is same.. whether the person is from the so-called "upper caste" or "lower caste".

I can understand that the mental status of the people doing those work in the olden dayz was not good. What they need is love, care and acceptance in the society. But then that was the mental status in those olden dayz.

Dont' temme that even today untouchability is existent! (Lets get practical and not talk about the case prevalent in some village 2000kms from Andaman islands!).

A human brain will NOT lose its characteristics according to the situation. Its like a waterfall. When its dry it doesn't work. When its full of water (fuel - education in this case), it shines in its full glory. Hafn't we seen genius folks from the so called "backward classes"?

How will reservations helping them? Aren't they limiting the person's development? For a general merit student the cut off is 500, for a reserved category student its only 300. So isn't the reserved category student studying only for those 300 marks? Is he really getting the education? Is reservation really aiding him?

Reservations should be abolished. For the upliftment of the so-called backward classes, Govt. should instead start extra classes/coaching for the weaker people; be it studies or work. Only that would make these weaker people stand head to head with others; and mind you the "other" here can be a general merit student or can be a student from the so-called backward classes! That is real development of the weaker students from so-called backward classes, not reservations!

[legolas]

^ ^ @infra_red_dude,
to play devil's advocate to this argument... The fact is, the guy who studied only for 300 marks of course wouldn't contribute much constructively to the society as say the guy who was more inclined. And lets be practical here.. the guy with 300, his attitude is to exploit the system and get into a descent job where he can get a girl with good job as well and settle... As a result, it increases his standard of living. With which, the next generation would get the best education right from the start, motivation, dedication and everything to the fullest which would in ideal practice help the people.

Unfortunately, we don't know when or where to stop and how to know the next generation is provided with everything sufficiently that these things are no more necessary! :(

again, as you said.. lets not get carried away by people 2000kms from andaman or the like... of course those people should be still lifted.

[Gigacore]

damn, 5000 Reservations for SC/ST in BE (Karnataka) out of which only 500 will go for it...

[infra_red_dude]

^ ^ @infra_red_dude,
to play devil's advocate to this argument... The fact is, the guy who studied only for 300 marks of course wouldn't contribute much constructively to the society as say the guy who was more inclined. And lets be practical here.. the guy with 300, his attitude is to exploit the system and get into a descent job where he can get a girl with good job as well and settle... As a result, it increases his standard of living. With which, the next generation would get the best education right from the start, motivation, dedication and everything to the fullest which would in ideal practice help the people.
So going by this.. isn't the 50 years of "exploitation" enuff to get a decent job, girl and settle?

Unfortunately, we don't know when or where to stop and how to know the next generation is provided with everything sufficiently that these things are no more necessary! :(

again, as you said.. lets not get carried away by people 2000kms from andaman or the like... of course those people should be still lifted.
Thats the whole point! Give extra coaching to students who need them coming from those so-called backward classes and GIVE reservations to people in those villages!!! Give them reservation to ENTER THE TEMPLE, TO LIVE IN THE VILLAGE!!! That is equality! Tell the so-called upper caste that ALL HUMANS ARE EQUAL!

What we are doing today is: there is a fractured leg but we are giving treatment for cancer! And everybody is happy that they are getting free cancer treatment forgetting that there is a fractured leg which will not allow them to go forward!!!

[int86]

In my opinion our country needs reservation. But 100% of reservation benefits wrong person.
Better to stop reservation or do amendments for a better India.

[kumarmohit]

Even if you want give them reservation for better education, give it at the school level. Those are able to sit in IIT JEE are not backwards. The test charges cost above 1000 Rs.

[legolas]

In my opinion our country needs reservation.
why do you think so? when you are perfectly healthy and you and I are no different in competing ( except may be the efforts) and still why do you feel there has to be a special concern and uplift? Is it because of insecure(ness)?

[int86]

@legolas
Draw conclusion after reading full post.

4 year ago I had to walk 10km to a village, as it had no roads, leave other basic amminities which we dont care.

[legolas]

^ ^ i read the full post. I just quoted your opinion and questioned yours.
Again, with what you wrote in your reply, don't you think the 10 km walk is done by people from other castes too?? and they should also be therefore entitled to the reservation (say, forward castes)

your reservation is more or less "financially related" i guess, which is much more noble rather than "caste motivated" and its the latter which is the problem under discussion and that is why, myself, mohit, and infra_red_dude are trying to suggest as to improve the status of the poor by implementing schemes such as scholarships and extra coaching classes to aid them, so that they can stand for themselves and not let the government call them backward anymore.

[FilledVoid]

Reservations made on caste should have been killed ages ago. Unfortunately now people are exploiting that using it as a trump card. However in my opinion I wouldn't mind benefits for people from backward classes which would enable them to compete with others on equal grounds (as in getting the proper education and facilities required for it).

As far as the reservations goes it was set in such a way that that the SC/ ST who were the oppressed then would get opportunities based on the environment of that prehistoric time :|. Rather than reducing it over time . Politicians used it as leverage for their political campaigns and they have been increasing it over time rather than reducing it. The part who does reduce it to lower percentages would most likely be booted from the next election with a landslide loss.

Even if you want give them reservation for better education, give it at the school level. Those are able to sit in IIT JEE are not backwards. The test charges cost above 1000 Rs.
Just cause the wards parents can somehow manage to make Rs 1000 for their child doesn't mean that they arent backward.

4 year ago I had to walk 10km to a village, as it had no roads, leave other basic amminities which we dont care.
So basically your saying that everyone should be punished because of the Government's inability to provide the village with infrastructure required? Let me give you a simple example.

A college has 10 seats ( Its a small college :D)
Out of which 50% is reserved for SC / ST whatever .
We have 100 students who don't fit this category and they have 95 - 99% marks. Which means 95 of those students are seriously unlucky although they tried their best. Now lets say some people who use the SC / ST trump card come by who have 50-60% . The other 95% got screwed over by people who didnt even deserve the seats in the first place. I find this hard to digest. How does reservation level the competition or give EQUAL opportunities ? Well thats easy..... It doesn't. It just gives them an unfair advantage.

PS. Somehow I overwrote my original edit :s. So the text might be different now from what I posted earlier.

[infra_red_dude]

Has anyone heard news like: Infosys sacks 50 Dalits!!???!! NO! Has anyone heard news that some XYZ public sector company employees molest and manhandle a dalit co-worker?? YES!!!

So what is the conclusion? The Govt. is making the so-called backward classes vulnerable to abuse by identifying them as "backward class"!

[DigitalDude]

no member from the other side i guess :)
getting very 1 sided

I was keeping quiet since I felt talking and ranting here is just useless. But slugger wanted some argument from the other side and Pathik was indulging in name-calling. and discussions are already spiralling so fast.. So I dont want to keep mum. Let me also join the rant party guess I'm very very late :p

I come under OBC Creamy Layer ;)

you guys should give credit to the SC in atleast stopping people like me from entering the premium institutions riding on the back of reservation. Thats a laudable move.

@sluggy
It's cos the bloody creamy layer wala idiots don't have the guts to argue over this. They ll be pawn3d.
what pwned.. I never asked for any reservation... dont talk like a kid :D
being in creamy layer or backward class doesn't mean people are idiots. I'm smarter, more intelligent than many of my so called general category classmates ;) so being stupid or intelligent does not have anything to do here. if you are angry show it on the govt not on the people.

What is my view? I, like everyone, feel that reservations are totally unnecessary in its current form and mostly pursued by the present day governments due to fear of a communal backlash.

Even reservations should not be given solely because of financial conditions... if that was the case a lot of people become poor by choice and by their actions so they clearly dont deserve anything..

so reservations are more justifiable when they are based on socio-economic conditions rather than on social or economic conditions considered alone. hope I'm clear.

No educated guy can deny that the matter of reservations, though long ago had some merit and a noble goal of bringing up the long oppressed classes in India, is being highly manipulated by the Political Parties for their own good. Infact this is the only thing they ALL are united. Just like any other issue that these political parties do to benefit themselves. But this matter has become so sensitive because it directly affects the future of the youth in this country.

Observing the discussions in this thread I can say the following points:

1) Everyone is highly furious over reservations :D ok acceptable
2) a few are directly attacking the people of the reserved class in general... what am I to do :confused: what is the mistake with me ???
3) Most of the people dont even know the original aims of the reservation policy. though it is now implemented not for fulfilling those early aims.
4) Most of you dont have any idea of how bad caste situations are in the major part of India - the villages... even in many parts of the cities
5) Indulging in name-calling 'other side' when there is no one to speak for. idiots, dim-wits, brainless ?? lol wat else.
6) not many realise that just by venting your anger here you cant even move a strand of hair of the actual situation
7) no one dare to play the devil's advocate for fear of getting flamed by an entire forum :lol: with exception of slugger...

as even I'm on the same boat, like slugger said, there is no one to give counter points.

But I can talk a lot about this matter sensibly and even give individual replies to answer many misconceptions (like praka's and legolas' view about TN) but its of no use. You guys should remember that getting angry and animated is no solution to any problem. If you are genuinely concerned about the society take matters to your hand. Go do it instead of cribbing and whining.. "mommy govt reservzz seats I has no placee" :lol: take things in your hands join politics or civil services or judiciary, secure India from MOFO politicians.

either change the rule/rulemakers, show dissent in an educated way or just play by the rules.

but inparticular I have to point out one single statement mainly:
FCUK............we h ave to pay our ass through fees and they rubbing their hnads in glee getting everywhere free....god we all are feeling sorry tht we were born into a good family....

so does that mean general category is good family and reserved category is bad family ?? hmmm this is called racism.. a crime..
and no mate where they are giving fees concession to OBCs ?? you may be talking about SC/STs

I do not think that they are going to cross the 50% barrier. Human rights activists would go crazy and it would be an open flouting of the constitution!
you do realise that the highest guardian of the Indian Constitution the SC upheld this law ?? what is a 1 or 2% more ;)

u have no idea how much i wanna get there
want != goal

... you can always pretend to be a person from "forward" caste if you needed so badly to get inside.
ROFL.. this is what I referred in my point no.4


Has anyone heard news like: Infosys sacks 50 Dalits!!???!! NO! Has anyone heard news that some XYZ public sector company employees molest and manhandle a dalit co-worker?? YES!!!

So what is the conclusion? The Govt. is making the so-called backward classes vulnerable to abuse by identifying them as "backward class"!

what do you mean.. this happens everywhere.. a lot of BPO cases these days.. go figure.. what this has got to do with the reservation policy ???

I really don't understand one thing.. the Govt. is openly calling the so-called backward classes incapable of doing anything unless reservations are provided!! (wtf is a backward class??!!! we all are equal.. we are human beings..)
this is your personal opinion. as I had said in point 3 you are unaware of the original aims of the reservation philosophy.. and its not my work to educate you...
and I dunno whether you can get a balanced view if you looked up on wikipedia or googled it ;)
yes we are all human beings but that was realised very late... and still not realised in majority of India

I wonder who would liked to be called as a backward class.. isn't it a blot on his/her face to be called as someone backward? The Govt. is publically insulting them by calling backward!

its not a blot on someone's face to be in the backward community... the govt is not insulting them.. but your are just making it appear so because you think backward class people are inferior. you call a cobbler a cobbler as simple as that if you feel being a cobbler is a shame then you are the one who is to be shameful. govt should actually provide opportunities to those backward people but they are playing a diff game thats a diff story altogether... you just need to clear up a lot of misconceptions in your mind.

I stand by my statement that if a person is not fit for a course/job, no reservation is gonna uplift him or her. That person should be shown the door, be it from the so-called "upper caste" or from "lower caste"!
This is a logical argument. In an ideal situation the statement holds good and in private sector you dont have much problem... but when it comes to reality and in public sector there are a ton of things like caste politics in work.. theres a whole book about itself... sorry but thats outta my scope..
May be our generation will stand true to what you have said.


But what to do... As already it has been pointed out by other members, we armchair executives do a good job of ranting fed well by the sensationalist media while all the time closely taking care of stuff that only affects us and people around us directly, not giving a damn to other serious social issues. :rolleyes:

I dont have any personal tussle with anyone in the above mentioned quotes.. its not their fault. the society is to be blamed for the misconceptions.

As any Indian who wants good for his country, I also wish the situation changes. But it will not happen on its own.. and I dont have guts to take it in my hands so obviously I would just be cursing the system and grudgingly moving along.

we cant do much by arguing...

Be the change you want to see in the world. or else just get on with it.



p.s. now legolas and slugger dont show me that comic :p k? :D

_

[iMav]

blah blah blah and your point is?

[DigitalDude]

^^^

nice quote ;) btw this whole thread is blah blah only so expected anything different ?

Written in numbered Lists at the beginning and
Written in bold at the end.


_

[iMav]

ur 7th point where u say the other person will get flamed by the other members - why would he if there is a point to make, which in this is not there, iits and iims are not places where u get admission because u belong to a certain caste/creed, they are institutions, have the brains ur welcome else bheed kum ;)

[DigitalDude]

Its not that you get admission by caste or creed alone.. if you are from a backward class and not under the creamy layer, it is assumed that you do not have the financial resources or educational exposure for your family members so that you are being given a slight preference over your general category counterpart...

you still need to score a significant percentile in CAT.. even If I was not under the creamy layer I cannot get a GDPI call with my 94.75%ile in CAT the situation is that bad...

btw
man every year lakhs and lakhs or people write CAT, compete for 1000 odd seats in the IIMs. that doesnt mean that those 1000 people are the best brains in the country... a lot of people are better than (in your language - 'have the brain') those who qualify for the GDPI.. its due to a very few tricky reasons that they dont get selected and the main reason being insufficient seats... so there is no major rigging going on in admissions because of the reservation. govt thinks they can also give some chance to backward class people to also get admission in the prestigious intitutions so that there will be uniform social growth in the country... this is the ideal case.. but bcos of some people/politicians gaming the system the whole policy gets a very bad name :D

come to pagalguy.com forums you'll be surprised to see how many veterans still can't make it to the IIMs and other creamy instis :(
and you will also be surprised to know how many well-off people enter premier instis (apart from IIMs maybe) with loads of cash under management quota/NRI and 1000 other quotas :D

I dont care about IIM and IIT reservation drama.. I'm out of it :p moving onto Welingkar GDPI... if I make it will be happy or else try agin next year ;)

anyway people who cant take it anymore are just leaving the country for more greener pastures...

_

[infra_red_dude]

what do you mean.. this happens everywhere.. a lot of BPO cases these days.. go figure.. what this has got to do with the reservation policy ???
What does it hafta do with reservation? Good question.. When Infy sacks someone nobody makes a big issue that a so-called backward class guy was sacked or the so-called upper caste guy was sacked. Neither the self proclaimed representatives of the "upper" caste nor the "lower" caste stage demonstrations due to this. Why? Coz every individual there has come up on his own merit!

But when it happens in some PSU the "upper" caste wing complains that the higher ups took revenge or the "backward" caste wing claims they are treated badly. This is effect of reservation: Division of people!

this is your personal opinion. as I had said in point 3 you are unaware of the original aims of the reservation philosophy.. and its not my work to educate you...
Yes, precisely and thats why I'd put up this exact question in some page of this thread.

yes we are all human beings but that was realised very late... and still not realised in majority of India
If you look up to this post this is exactly what I'm saying.. This is where privileges are required to make people realize that everyone is EQUAL! Give them entry in temple. Provide scholarships to the needy, haf extra coaching classes to compensate for the lack of educational exposure, make them fit this way so that they can look into the eyes of others with confidence!

its not a blot on someone's face to be in the backward community... the govt is not insulting them.. but your are just making it appear so because you think backward class people are inferior. you call a cobbler a cobbler as simple as that if you feel being a cobbler is a shame then you are the one who is to be shameful. govt should actually provide opportunities to those backward people but they are playing a diff game thats a diff story altogether... you just need to clear up a lot of misconceptions in your mind.
You've said that you belong to the "creamy layer of OBCs" and that you are more intelligent than some of those "general category" guys. Then why are you called OBC? Don't you haf the same set of eyes, ears, nose, mouth, hands, legs, kidneys, brainz? How are you lesser than those less-intelligent fellows? Why are you "backward"??? You are not! And I'm suggesting that this tag of "upper caste" "backward caste" crap be removed from everyone's head!

When you are as human as others and actually more capable than many others why should Govt. call you "backward"??!! Isn't it creating a divide amongst us?

This is a logical argument. In an ideal situation the statement holds good and in private sector you dont have much problem... but when it comes to reality and in public sector there are a ton of things like caste politics in work..
You mean to say private sector hasn't seen reality? Or something like that?

But what to do...
Bridge the gap! Help abolish the caste system... Tell people around you that everyone is equal... make them realize this.. At least thats the most I can do and I try my best to do that...

[DigitalDude]

I mean private sector is not that influenced like the public sector ;)

now you are more clear with the first point... and I agree with your intention made clear

I have been in NCC for almost 5yrs (2yrs in school+3yrs coll) and in the end became the Cadet Under Officer.. we have conducted a LOT of social initiatives and awareness campaigns... and never took up the reservation/castism issue cos everytime it comes up we dont get permission saying its sensitive our sirs just rejects it and throws in a rain water harvesting/AIDS awareness program :D

everyone is in such a state of fear/misconception to talk about reservation/castism in public fearing it might trigger some chaos....

Our generation and our children's will see major change... it will take time


_

[MetalheadGautham]

here are my personal 50 cents on the topic:

Our country India can be broadly divided into two nations

one with backward people who concider a shithead of a brahmin l33t just cause of his birth, and concider a hardcore geek of a SC useless just cause he is a SC.

the other has forward thinking smart and worldly aware people who look at a person by his self, not his birth. So a shithead is always a shithead in this country, weather a brahmin or a SC, and a genius is always a genius, weather he is a brahmin or a SC.

but India is supposed to be one, so the nations are treated as one.

In the country of fools, ppl need reservations, else the SC/ST ppl will suffer a lot. Its fair there, cause those SCs and STs who try to go to collages and work are naturally skilled enough, for they passed the harsh test of opposing discrimination and keeping their head up while still managing to work like any other average collegue of theirs.

In the country of forward people, everyone is equal at birth and becomes a fool or a genius only by his own choices. Here, people just need rules to ensure that only the best go to the top, the medium stay in the middle and the lessers go below.

But the population of the country of fools far outnumbers that of the country of the just. So laws are always made for them. Those in the country of the just, SCs and STs included, suffer because while the non SC/ST ppl have to loose their merit seats, the SC/ST ppl who are geniuses have to bear with comments that they came up only because of reservation. This may be true for some of them, but not for all. So harmony is affected there.

But what can the better country do ? They try migrating to other countries where they can live with dignity, but they still suffer. No peace anywhere. But laws are laws, right ? They are doomed for no fault of theirs. Blame it all on the useless country of fools that contributes hardly 40% of the GDP, but still get their needs addressed over the better country.

[legolas]

Observing the discussions in this thread I can say the following points:

3) Most of the people don't even know the original aims of the reservation policy. though it is now implemented not for fulfilling those early aims.
4) Most of you don't have any idea of how bad caste situations are in the major part of India - the villages... even in many parts of the cities
6) not many realize that just by venting your anger here you cant even move a strand of hair of the actual situation
7) no one dare to play the devil's advocate for fear of getting flamed by an entire forum :lol: with exception of slugger...

3&4 -> all the people you mentioned here, iMav, infra_red_dude, me, praka123, pathik etc.... don't know the original aims and how bad the caste situations are and you are the only one who knows what you are talking about! :) yes, the dictionary term is "puffed up with vanity"
6) not even worth commenting...
7) may be, you should go back and read the posts again!! I can't write better than "to play the devil's advocate" :D
But I can talk a lot about this matter sensibly and even give individual replies to answer many misconceptions (like praka's and legolas' view about TN) but its of no use.
I am from TN. And I am sorry if I don't agree to your views which apparently is now-a-days called "misconceptions".

ROFL.. this is what I referred in my point no.4 :) Ok! Point referred

p.s. now legolas and slugger don't show me that comic :p k? :D

really enjoyed the pun.

@iMav, good one! ;)

[DigitalDude]

woops I guess I opened a can of worms!!! :D



@MetalHead dude!!!
aptly put... though I have small differences not worth taking up :D


_

[legolas]

^ ^ and I thought you wouldn't reply coz ranting here is of no sense! :D

[praka123]

Is it a sin to quote the caste name here?

well,FYI to all,TN got maximum no.of OBC/SC/ST?? that may be why they have the reservation level which is very high(69%??).
also,while I studied in coimbatore,the brahmin(iyer/iyengar etc) friends used to say-it is hopeless in TN for a FW caste fella.:evil:

There are all sort of reservation for the "majority";ie OBC's in south tn it is naadaar,thevar etc while in north it is gowdars,telegu's etc :-|

Isnt this the reverse happening in Taamil Naadui?the two communities,who are minorities(vellalars~mudhaliars,Iyers etc) are in FW caste and after the dravida revolution done by kamaraj/periyar Ramaswamy Naiker etc,poor brahmins have to migrate to other states for study and sarkar job opportunities.
That sucks!

[DigitalDude]

^ ^ and I thought you wouldn't reply coz ranting here is of no sense! :D
'felt' past tense FTW! :p

@praka
you seem to know a lot more than me about this... so you might have a point there

my mom used to say DMK et al brought the major reservation in TN guess it makes sense now after your post.. but I cant pass any comments :D

but there are a ton of engineering colleges here so a LOT of people get through management seats which is very very HIGH in number

these engg colleges rake in crores and govt also doesnt care much abt this mgmt quota fees that goes into several lakhs


_

[legolas]

but there are a ton of engineering colleges here so a LOT of people get through management seats which is very very HIGH in number
People who take management seats are not merit students. When you have the marks, why would you want to worry about that?
these engg colleges rake in crores and govt also doesnt care much abt this mgmt quota fees that goes into several lakhs
true, but how is it related to this discussion? and please, don't stop commenting for my sake! I would be glad to hear what you have to say to what praka123 had mentioned.

[iMav]

management quota - electronics seat = 8 lakhs how many seats in my colege fr electronics = 4

[confused]

I hope/want India to pay dearly for this mistake. So that it never repeated.

News: "Congress, Left, BJP all welcome the move".........
Now i know who deserves my vote: ............. NOBODY

SC = Supremely Idiotic Court. Hope the judges rot in hell for this $H!T.And i guess those who have an opportunity to study/work abroad should grab it, atleast their children will not be subject such stupid reservations...

[drgrudge]

iits and iims are not places where u get admission because u belong to a certain caste/creed, they are institutions, have the brains ur welcome else bheed kum ;)
IITs and IIMs do have standards. I agree that standard might be low for SC/ST students.

In IITs - SC/ST students with low scores in JEE are made to sit for one year before they join the rest of the students.
In IIMs - Check the websites of IIMs. IIM A/B/C do ask for a minimum cut off in sections and overall aggregate in CAT.

So it's not like what you think. Check IIM A website, last year there were hardly any difference (but in numbers point of view) in the OBC and the General category.

Do you know that I wrote CAT for 2 times (2005 and 2007) and still didn't get admit. I got calls from IIM K and IIM L (CAT 2005) but failed to convert (Wait List at IIM K). Know why? Because I didn't score sufficiently in CAT. Not because of reservations at IIMs.

[legolas]

In IITs - SC/ST students with low scores in JEE are made to sit for one year before they join the rest of the students.
grudgy, I don't quite understand what you are saying. 1) Are you saying it only happens for SC/ST students? 2) even if it isn't, when you say "sit", you have to pay the fee and do nothing?? 3) can you link me somewhere in this regard?

[confused]

grudgy, I don't quite understand what you are saying. 1) Are you saying it only happens for SC/ST students? 2) even if it isn't, when you say "sit", you have to pay the fee and do nothing?? 3) can you link me somewhere in this regard?no man. it means those ppl have to take an additional preparatory course of one year...........before beginning engg semesters........

[drgrudge]

grudgy, I don't quite understand what you are saying. 1) Are you saying it only happens for SC/ST students? 2) even if it isn't, when you say "sit", you have to pay the fee and do nothing?? 3) can you link me somewhere in this regard?
It works like this.

IITs reserve 22.5% for SC/ST (But they don't fill them all - hardly 16-17%). SC/ST students with a comparatively good score in JEE will qualify to sit with other students. Now they see if they've filled some portion of seats. If a lot of seats are vacant, then take other SC/ST student will lesser scores in JEE with a condition that they need to study a bridge course for a year before sit with other students.

AFAIK that thing is free.

[FilledVoid]

I hope everyone understands that I was just pointing out an example. I'm not saying that it was judged as what i said in my example.

[slugger]

To tell you all the truth, I am quite satisfied with the Supreme Court ruling :D

Three reasons: -
1.) Creamy layer excluded
2.) Quota to be reviewed every 5 years
3.) Politicians wards to be excluded

The reason I did not voice my whole hearted support in the evening was because I had just glanced through the NEWS and was unaware of the exact deatils. The 9 'o click NEWS cleared them all.

Well I have been a first hand witness to the benefits of reservation for the economically poor class.

The lady who cooks at our place is a perfect example for this. Her two sons actually studied under the nearest lampost on the road because they were too poor to afford electricity and the kerosene lamp too often ran without any kerosene in it.
(A picture perfect case for an NGO to highlight, but no NGO ever did anything for them)

They studied inspite of the the loud music that is played almost continously in the area and the frequent unrestrained quarrels that erupts there without the slightest of provocations (only if we had doctors in real life to first instigate and then control the fights:rolleyes:).

Well under these circumstances it would have been too much to ask of them to top their class exams and they never did.They both passed their class 12 exams with around 50% marks.

However what they had going for them was their caste. Because they belonged to a caste that enjoys reservation benefits, the elder one managed to secure admissions in BSc. in a College has been featuring in the top 10 list of Science colleges in India today for the past 3-4 years now. The younger brother sought and got admission in a reputed commerce collge of the city (known for its Intl students). Hard to believe, but both of them secured a distinction in their third year exams (final year), the elder bro getting a first class from the second year itself.

The elder bro graduated in 2001 and has been working with a pharma comapny since. The younger one graduated in 2006 and has been working with HDFC (and no, he is not a loan recovery agent). They had moved from their tin hut to a low cost housing plan. They even got their mother to stop working everywhere else, save ours and rest at home.

The reason I though our cook's story was apt is because, had it not been for this reservation, her sons too would have turned into some anti-social element who would probably have met their end with the bullet of a rival and landed in some gutter to rot.
It was only because they got an oppurtunity to study in two of the finest educational intitutes, they were exposed to a world so very different from the one the were living in. This gave them an oppurtunity to realise their full potential while interacting with the educated and cultured teachers and staff there.

They may never get to see the face of Los Alamos or Harvard Business school, but how many Open category Indians have anyway.

Somebody had said that they only study for 300 marks while we study for 500.

It is so very untrue. Infact while we were able to afford the luxuary of joining tutions if we so desired and buy multiple books on the same subject, these 2 brothers actually studied from books issued by the school book bank which had pages missing from them.

Had there not been any reservations, I would easily have secured admission in a faar better Engg college than the one I already am in. But if that the seat has gone to a guy from an economically backward family, I would only curse myself for the hours I spent on activites not related to studies when I should have been doing just that.

[DigitalDude]

^^^
after reading that I can only remember this http://in.rediff.com/money/2006/aug/31spec.htm

though few in number.. inspiring nonethless

_

[legolas]

^ ^ hats off to that lady and congrats to those two guys!!

you know what bothers me... these guys who exploit the system... there were guys in my college who came in pulsar and karisma (just to quote the cost) right from their 2nd semester, wearing 3000 or 5000 rs shoes/slippers and they paid 3000/- per semester with 13-16 brand new textbooks every semester apart from the 4 library books which he returns as new as it was at the end!! :D because of their caste and I paid 7000/- per semester with books from library (4 max), I was the first seat in the college!! :) My rank was 168. I don't mind if he is pompous... but what sort of encouragement is this... The least possible thing is to do something with regard to financial situations or to take it also into account including the social status! :-|

It is so very untrue.
Unfortunately, its not. I have seen Father's advising their child to study only as much as possible as he requires only this much to get into a college... really!! believe me.
And, the guy who was standing next to me in the counseling session, was 192.8 and when I asked him how he was next to me... he gave a reluctant smile which I will never forget and told.. we are eligible!! :) He got computer science in the guindy campus (Anna university, Chennai) , while I was not having seats left! :D

[slugger]

thiat guy was an exceptionally talented guy whose talent wud have got wasted otherwise

our cook's son's though maybe not as gifted, they still have made a good thing out of their life and are only likely to do better

[DigitalDude]

@legolas

I agree with you in this case.. even I have seen this in my coll..


OT: which coll in TN ? :D pm me if you dont want to post ;) lot of similarities with my coll

strike that he answered :D

_

[slugger]

you know what bothers me... these guys who exploit the system... there were guys in my college who came in pulsar and karisma (just to quote the cost) right from their 2nd semester, wearing 3000 or 5000 rs shoes/slippers .....

i know one of these guys :D
studies in my college too

pop works in Oman. earns truckloads of cash. yet seeks admission through reservation and also gets his fee reimbursed from the govt through the coll itself

[T159]

legolas has got some good points. Financial status plays an important role.

[legolas]

^^^
after reading that I can only remember this http://in.rediff.com/money/2006/aug/31spec.htm
though few in number.. inspiring nonetheless

When you constantly worry about the next square meal, you do not dream of becoming a doctor or an engineer.
man!!!! :( OMG.. I don't even know if I can live for 1 day with 1 Rs alone, let alone feed 5 kids! :( :(

:D The great Madras Institute of Technology!! (the worst quagmire/sh!t I have ever been in for 4 long years in Electronics Engineering)

[slugger]

legolas has got some good points. Financial status plays an important role.

by excluding the creamy layer your are taking care of that problem too

[DigitalDude]

man!!!! :( OMG.. I don't even know if I can live for 1 day with 1 Rs alone, let alone feed 5 kids! :( :(

:D The great Madras Institute of Technology!! (the worst quagmire/sh!t I have ever been in for 4 long years in Electronics Engineering)
dude which batch you are... I have probably seen those guys you have mentioned :D there were a few in ECE and mech too :(

me from CEG :D :p (same sh1t here also)

p.s. sorry for OT

_

[infra_red_dude]

Well I have been a first hand witness to the benefits of reservation for the economically poor class.
Here is the point I've been trying to make!

However what they had going for them was their caste. Because they belonged to a caste that enjoys reservation benefits, the elder one managed to secure admissions in BSc. in a College has been featuring in the top 10 list of Science colleges in India today for the past 3-4 years now. The younger brother sought and got admission in a reputed commerce collge of the city (known for its Intl students). Hard to believe, but both of them secured a distinction in their third year exams (final year), the elder bro getting a first class from the second year itself.
Tell you what? There's a woman in my locality in Belgaum (actually not my present locality, I once stayed there but I still visit the place). She works as house maid in my friend's house. Her family consists of only her son. They are poor. She has a son who is above average (I must say quite intelligent considering the environment and resources with which he studied) but UNFORTUNATELY they neither belong to the so-called "upper class" nor the "reserved class". My friend's family supported his education during his school days upto Class XII.

There are very few good science colleges in Belgaum and he was good in Electronics (thats what he had taken in 12th). He scored average marks in XII, I guess about 75% and hence couldn't get a seat in any electrical sciences related branch. They didn't haf the money to go in for a payment seat. All they could afford was the Govt. seat which was not available. He took up the Govt. seat in some other branch (I don't remember which exactly). He passed out but only with very average scores and everyone was amazed coz he was good in studies till XII. It was obvious since he was not into that branch and his mother didn't haf the money to send him to another city where he would've got a seat in the branch he was confident for. He's become a liability for his mother now. He has no work.

Now isn't this family in the same situation as the one you explained? Why can't there be reservation for the economically poor class too? What sin haf these people committed? Isn't it like the Govt. policy ruined the life of a youngster? How can we justify reservation only on the basis of caste?

Somebody had said that they only study for 300 marks while we study for 500.

It is so very untrue.
Thats me and yes, this can't be generalised.

[legolas]

dude which batch you are... I have probably seen those guys you have mentioned :D there were a few in ECE and mech too :(
me from CEG :D :p (same sh1t here also)
p.s. sorry for OT

cool! I am from 2001-2005. I dint want to take anything other than computer science in CEG. I dint get it.. My next choice was Electronics engineering from MIT... as the hype was humongous. It was worse than dog sh!t :)

OFF TOPIC: You should know SKM (ECE dept) (S Krishna Moorthy) the professor of CUPS! :D he is from my college :) the HOD of my college made sure that he got the transfer to your campus!! ha ha ha but lets reserve that for another on-topic discussion!! :D

[T159]

but UNFORTUNATELY they neither belong to the so-called "upper class" nor the "reserved class".
Does creamy layer see this too ?

[slugger]

Here is the point I've been trying to make!

the thing had been highlghted for the same reason :)

Tell you what? There's a woman in my locality in Belgaum (actually not my present locality, I once stayed there but I still visit the place). She works as house maid in my friend's house. Her family consists of only her son. They are poor. She has a son who is above average (I must say quite intelligent considering the environment and resources with which he studied)........

it is indeed unfortunate that the deserving guy did not recieve any financial aid

but 1 thing that i would also like to say is that outside the IITs and NITs there is no Uni whose Engg exams cannot be aced by just learning the local author txt books by rote and going through the previous 4-5 yrs Qs papers - guarantted to get you a first class

IMO aptitude has got absolutely nothing to with this style of exam preparation. 2 days after the paper you will be as knowledgeble as an arty or commy student about the engg paper. But on the day of the paper you will be prepared for a first class

[DigitalDude]

cool! I am from 2001-2005. I dint want to take anything other than computer science in CEG. I dint get it.. My next choice was Electronics engineering from MIT... as the hype was humongous. It was worse than dog sh!t :)

OFF TOPIC: You should know SKM (ECE dept) (S Krishna Moorthy) the professor of CUPS! :D he is from my college :) the HOD of my college made sure that he got the transfer to your campus!! ha ha ha but lets reserve that for another on-topic discussion!! :D

hahaha that idiot is very famous in the campus... ECE friends cry like anything... kappu-krishnamoorthy :lol: sometimes they even make secret plans to pottuthallify him :p

I had CSE, IT, Mech et al in CEG (MBC quota only :oops: ) but I never gave a damn about this reservation stuff and all at that time... some xperts :lol: in my relations advised not to go for CSE and IT as those were not stable (the .com bust days) and being a lot interested in cars took mech :lol:

btw me 2002-2006 batch but got a sem brk due to a surgery completed last yr only... :D this yr one more surgery :(

p.s. sry guys going too much OT :oops:

_

[legolas]

@slugger very true reg. the examinations... its not the examination in those cases that is the problem... coz every1 knows its easy (at least the ones in city get EXTENSIVE coaching that they repeat the answers in sleep).. take TNPCEE.. its a test of absurdness, not intelligence. but its the competition that bothers every1. in my year.. for every 0.2 marks there was a rank lost almost.
@digitaldude, that is awesome!! good to know there is 1 guy who knows that b@stard. Yeah, the same "pottuthalifying" was also planned in my college.. it went really serious. There were 110/135 people failed in my batch during his time... Fortunately I wasn't one among them!! people were furious, his name came in the Hindu, Hod decided to transfer him, students decided to murder him! :d ha ha ha Hope everything is fine now with you!!

[MetalheadGautham]

@grudge: I see that the students who come via reservation are scanned, and the lesser ones tutored. Fine.

but isn't this still unfair ? how do you think a student will feel if his neighbour who is an SC gets into IIT, and despite getting low scores is tutored for free for an year, while he himself gets no such opportunity despite being equal in status (knowledge and marks wise) to the SC student because he is from a so called forward caste ?

[confused]

@grudge: I see that the students who come via reservation are scanned, and the lesser ones tutored. Fine.

but isn't this still unfair ? how do you think a student will feel if his neighbour who is an SC gets into IIT, and despite getting low scores is tutored for free for an year, while he himself gets no such opportunity despite being equal in status (knowledge and marks wise) to the SC student because he is from a so called forward caste ?agree ........ IMO IITs, IIMs are so highly rated only because their students are the "creamiest", not in terms of social status but in terms of merit/marks .....

guess the judges were on crack while passing the judgement......:mad:

[drgrudge]

@grudge: I see that the students who come via reservation are scanned, and the lesser ones tutored. Fine.

but isn't this still unfair ? how do you think a student will feel if his neighbour who is an SC gets into IIT, and despite getting low scores is tutored for free for an year, while he himself gets no such opportunity despite being equal in status (knowledge and marks wise) to the SC student because he is from a so called forward caste ?
I'm not arguing that Reservation is good (or bad). I replied back to iMav's misconception that IITs and IIMs have less standards for SC/ST.

I don't know if this helps but that's the way it is. If you score less in JEE, you'll be doing UG at IIT in 5 years.

Personally I believe that it does help some people. Reservation might be necessary but I'm not sure what's the best way to go about it.

[ray|raven]

^True, Reservations are still necessary in this country of ours.

But , there is no right way to go about them,for whatever way they are implemented , let it be caste or say economic background, there will always be people who want to misuse them, and there will always be politicians that will help these people, for the sake of votes.

As I said in my previous post, as long as vote-bank politics are there in this country, nothing good will come out.

[DigitalDude]

@Gautam
yes in a common perspective it is unfair for the general category student to see some OBC guy coming along with him with a less score and is the same for an OBC guy to see a SC/ST student coming along with a much lower score plus a free pass... but you have to put up with this for the next five years after which the reservation policy would be reviewed again.

This is all done so that even though the one who is getting admission using reservation they will get into a better social/financial status that their wards will be not needing the reservation... and for making sure (artificially instead of organically) that higher places of learning are represented well by all sections of the society instead just being filled with the Elite alone... but a small percentage of people happen to game the system but that is not possible now I guess.. the probability is greatly reduced.

but can anyone clear a query for me:

Let me assume I'm not coming under the creamy layer now. then I'm presented with a situation like this: I have got a GDPI call under the OBC quota but since I feel reservation is not quite right, I opt out of it and join some other college. But the seat I opted out of is going to be taken by a student with less score than me but in the same OBC quota and I will be effectively reducing one general category seat for a general category student who is a notch below me in the score ????

So am I further reducing the quality from the students perspective ? or am I adding more people from reserved class and making it better from the govt's perspective ??

so should I opt out and show my dissent but allow the above points ?? now what should I do and how should I feel :confused:

hope I'm clear ??



@confused
dont just show blind anger dude... no the judges are not allowed to be on crack while on duty :lol: :p


and I dont know why people always bring in IITs and IIMs into this. IMO OBC reservations are not going to affect the quality of these very elite instis even a bit. cos you need to put in a BIG ASS effort to even be considered by these instis for GDPI and there is helluva competition among the OBCs itself for IIMs and IIT and its just a fraction of a mark difference between the general category student and OBC students in all the cases though with some exceptions.

and you fail to see that there are a LOT of 'creamiest' people that you say who are not making into the IIMs and IITs so I dont think the ones in the IIMs and IITs are THE creamiest.. so is the scale of population in India and miniscule number of opportunities.

so dont go gaga over saying that the quality of these elite insti are gonna go down the drain :D nope thats not the truth... they are highly immune to this. A few people might lose opportunities in these elite instis cos of reservations but thats a small number and a large number of people are already losing many opportunities just cos there aren't enough...


_

[Sykora]

so dont go gaga over saying that the quality of these elite insti are gonna go down the drain nope thats not the truth... they are highly immune to this. A few people might lose opportunities in these elite instis cos of reservations but thats a small number and a large number of people are already losing many opportunities just cos there aren't enough...

They _are_ going down the drain. The standards of IIT have been plummeting for quite some time now. A large number of faculty have left in search of greener pastures, because the students that they are teaching aren't as good as they once were. The faculty will have to be replaced, and the standards will fall further still, while those private colleges which do respect quality education will rise.

I just hope that when capable students start moving overseas en masse because they can't get seats here, the govt doesn't cry "brain drain".

[DigitalDude]

They _are_ going down the drain. The standards of IIT have been plummeting for quite some time now.

yes.. I never refuted that. Thats a general and bigger problem not just affected by reservations. There are a million causes for it.

but not as bad as you portray.. just see the number of placements and salary levels.

A large number of faculty have left in search of greener pastures, because the students that they are teaching aren't as good as they once were.
everyone is running for greener pastures more salaries more opportunties for them and they show the middle finger to other social issues in the country.

"because the students that they are teaching aren't as good as they once were."
haha people should be ashamed to say this even :D Its the other way round.
actually its a very GENERALISED problem not specific to a class of people or a particular policy like reservation.

Better qualified people dont take up teaching jobs (cos obviously there are green pastures out there) and the quality of teachers are well going down the drain and as a result the quality of education on the whole has been down and schools/colleges turned into production house of employees for the industry instead of imparting real education and channeling the best brains into research/teaching.

The faculty will have to be replaced, and the standards will fall further still, while those private colleges which do respect quality education will rise.

I just hope that when capable students start moving overseas en masse because they can't get seats here, the govt doesn't cry "brain drain".

standards are falling everywhere but the competition is ever increasing and also disproportionately to the available resources. btw not many private colleges can better the govt elite instis for many reasons like mgmt seats, high fees, mgmt attitude etc. along with good faculty/students preferring the latter.

and why are you saying 'when' ?? its already happening :) brain drain or not we benefit either way. the people who are going out insearch of greener pastures cant be blamed they want something better and are not in a position to make it happen here nor wait.. so let them go.. but many of them are bringing back many opportunities/wealth to the country after a period of time. IMO brain drain is an old problem actually its not much a problem now :D



_

[confused]

@confused
dont just show blind anger dude... how else i am supposed to react to something which so god damn crazy, it can happen only in india.......:mad:
its easy for you to digest since you've already done ur engg ........ :rolleyes:


IMO OBC reservations are not going to affect the quality of these very elite instis even a bit.:shock: absolutely disagree. just wait and see.


there is helluva competition among the OBCs itself for IIMs and IIT and its just a fraction of a mark difference between the general category student and OBC students if thats really the case then why have reservations at all for IITs, IIMs??? [i mean if there is no diff in standard b/n general and reserved category students, no need for reservations right???]

its not like the backward people absolutely have to have an IIT degree to progress. :shock:

IITs/IIMs are for ppl who can work hard ......... so does it make a difference whether one is forward or backward:confused: .......... [coaching classes are all crap anyway ........ any student whether rich or poor has to literally tear his @SS apart to stand a chance]

IMO IITs/IIMs should have no reservations....... everyone one on same platter......... work hard to get in ........

unfortunately $H!T is happening..........:mad:

[drgrudge]

It's quite interesting to see that none of the people here they want to work for NTPC, BSNL, NLC, BEML or ONGC. They feel their prospects in IITs, IIMs, NITs, AIIMS or IISc getting even tougher. :lol:

Private educational institutes also 'reserve' seats for people who can pay Rs 35 Lacs for a MBBS seat or Rs 7 Lacs for a BE seat. Why is there no hue and cry over it?

What about IAS, IPS and civil servant jobs? Even there we'll have over 50% of the seats reserved.

So you want to study in IITs, IIMs or NITs and get a phoren job.


Let me assume I'm not coming under the creamy layer now. then I'm presented with a situation like this: I have got a GDPI call under the OBC quota but since I feel reservation is not quite right, I opt out of it and join some other college. But the seat I opted out of is going to be taken by a student with less score than me but in the same OBC quota and I will be effectively reducing one general category seat for a general category student who is a notch below me in the score ????

So am I further reducing the quality from the students perspective ? or am I adding more people from reserved class and making it better from the govt's perspective ??Most Institutes don't fill SC/ST/OBC seats for general students. It's always not filled. If you're opting out, you're not doing any good for the general students. The seats is filled by another OBC candidate or not filled.

The Center will increase the seats in the institutes in a phased manner. By 2010, they'll increase the intake by 54% so that the general category students are not affected.

[Sykora]

Better qualified people dont take up teaching jobs (cos obviously there are green pastures out there)

Obviously if money is the only criterion, nobody would be teaching.

Better qualified people take up teaching jobs because they have a passion for the subject, a passion that's killed if they're made to teach students who have be tutored for a year before they're fit to join the main stream. These teachers find places where their talent is respected more, and they're replaced by people who teach a syllabus.

actually its a very GENERALISED problem not specific to a class of people or a particular policy like reservation.

Reservation is a major cause of it. Of course not the only cause, but a major one nonetheless.

the people who are going out insearch of greener pastures cant be blamed they want something better and are not inposition to make it happen here nor wait.. so let them go.. but many of them are bringing back in many opportunities/wealth to the country after a period of time.

Are you saying that it's a good thing for people _not_ to study here, because it brings wealth and opportunity later on?

The day the govt functions for _all_ people, and not just the people who are likely to vote it back into power, will be the day the country flourishes.

Then again, that would possibly signify the end of the world.

IMO IITs/IIMs should have no reservations....... everyone one on same platter......... work hard to get in ........

Absolutely. Otherwise, the term "merit based education" will have no meaning.

there is helluva competition among the OBCs itself for IIMs and IIT and its just a fraction of a mark difference between the general category student and OBC students

Yeah right. Please explain mass discrepancies like a 160,000 AIR holder beating a 12,000 AIR holder if the former is in SC, based on that "fraction of a mark difference" theory.

Besides, if there's only a fraction of a mark difference, why does anyone need reservation? Obviously they're good enough to get in on their own merit, right?

[drgrudge]

its easy for you to digest since you've already done ur engg ........ :rolleyes:
3 new IITs in AP, Rajastan and Bihar is coming up this year and the first year classes will be held at IIT Madras, Delhi and Kanpur respectively. Also the seats in the other 7 IITs will be hiked by atleast 10% (exc. the seats in the 3 new IITs).

You've enough seats in IITs. With the increased reservation also, the competition is not going to reduce.

Instead of cribbing here, why don't you prepare for JEE and AIEEE?

[DigitalDude]

how else i am supposed to react to something which so god damn crazy, it can happen only in india.......:mad:
its easy for you to digest since you've already done ur engg ........ :rolleyes:
yes because you dont have a country that is as diverse (linguistically, culturally, geographically, socially and economically) as India :grin:

yes I have finished engg (phew!!) also have become a bit mature in those years.. :-)

:shock: absolutely disagree. just wait and see.

ok. will wait and see.. I'm just 22 ;)

if thats really the case then why have reservations at all for IITs, IIMs??? [i mean if there is no diff in standard b/n general and reserved category students, no need for reservations right???]
to also bring in people from a variety of social statuses to those elite instis which traditionally was filled with a single group of people...

but govt is very well playing politics but SC has given a good judgement in forcing the govt to exclude creamy layer from reservations.

its not like the backward peopl