Pay the Hospital bills by body parts!!

[vaithy]

This is not a film story that come in to the Tamil film “Ramana” but a real story which happened in the first week of march in Chennai.

A young man who just happened below twenty three years, and taking his salary to his house was met with dreadful accident.. he was immediately rush to the well known superficiality Hospital in Chennai ..On third day he was no more,, the hospital told his father to get his body after paying the Hospital fees.. The Fees?..Not a big one, just three Lahks Rupees only..But the problem is the father of the boy is a 'small tea-shop owner' and has no cash reserve , as the boy only start to earn for last six months only..
Ofcourse the Hospital Authorities got some papers signed from the father and promised to realease the body.. The BPO mangement just released One lahk to the hospital , then the body was sent to his father..

on receiving the body.the father was inconsolable.. because the body was put in a multiple disfigurement by the Hospital.. the eyes, kidney, heart, and many parts skillfully taken away...the Hospital authorities told the father, how they are magnanimous to him despite he owe them three lahks, they returned the body(or one of the part).. another fact is the Father has last seen his boy when he was put in to ICU in the first day , and his financial position enquired by the Hospital.. So they know he could not in a position to pay the bill ...When they ask to pay the bill, they have already remove the vital organs, therefore , it is a formality..
the hospital sources said the boy was drunken when he drove his bike..But his father deny this..
Several questions..
If the death was instantaneous postmortem report can indicated it..
Whether FIR registered in this case ( all the accident death cases reported to police) If so how the case was closed by them...When the co-workers of the BPO collected some money and went to his place they are under shock to see the pathetetic condition of the family, which lost a bread winner, and constantly threatened by various agencies (hospital and other law enforcement agencies)..

when one of the Co-worker told this father's plight I was shocked and infuriated about the Hospital behaviour.. but my friends says it is a day to day affairs in the superficiality hospitals...
It is a crime to be a poor man..It is more crime to admit yourselves in such hospitals. Penalty is pay by your organs..

with heavy heart,
Vaithy

[naveen_reloaded]

Few hospitals like these spoil the entire doctor community....

[DigitalDude]

sad sad world we live in :( :(




_

[kumarmohit]

where is the source?

[din]

vaithy is a very senior and reputed member here, so I assume it is true. Still, is there any proof that such thing happened ? Please do not take it wrong, I meant to say - it is terrible if it is true - but how people will know this is true ?

If it is true, I think it is our duty to give maximum publicity on this - that may be the least thing we can do.

[infra_red_dude]

If true, lets try to get this incident on the leading newspapers and electronic media...

[vaithy]

Well the source is from the co-workers of the boy in the BPO firm who went to see the father for consoling him..only fraction of cases brought before newspapaers..also the Hospital has everyone under their belt..politician,newspapers magnets,law officers..so who is going to take a potshot on them?

[T159]

:(

[vaithy]

din, a PM to you , pass it to moderator..
thanks,
vaithy

[Edburg]

which hospital was it ?? appollo ?

[ray|raven]

A sad incident indeed. Let us try our best to get this noticed.
An online petetion to take action perhaps?
Maybe folks who use orkut can help spread this.

[slugger]

It is a criminal offense to remove body parts without the consent of the decease's family or the deceased person (before death)

but are you really sure it is a true story?

no NEWS channels seem to be reportin it and which hospital was it?

[kumarmohit]

Exactly, this is the kind of story on which most of Indian news channels thrive. How come such a thing happened an none of the people covered it.

[MetalheadGautham]

sad but true :(

[infra_red_dude]

Well the source is from the co-workers of the boy in the BPO firm who went to see the father for consoling him..only fraction of cases brought before newspapaers..also the Hospital has everyone under their belt..politician,newspapers magnets,law officers..so who is going to take a potshot on them?
Lets try to get this to newspapers in other states and national news... Let haf an online petition for this...

[din]

Vaithy, I really understand. And I agree with infra, if this is true, we should spread this to max we can.

We may not be able to file a case as there is no solid proof, but my suggestion is, post the hospital name and I think we can all spread the news in internet.

Now, how to post hospital name ? This may sound odd, but here is my suggestion.

The person who know the name of hospital and know teh incident is 100% true - Register as a new user in this forum (please, please do it), use a foreign IP (or proxy, play it very safe) and post the incident / hospital involved in this.

In my opinion, if this incident is true, there is nothing wrong in publishing the name of hospital. Friends, please comment on.

We should definitely do something in this matter. I am not sure what other things we can do, but the least thing - Spread the info.

I think once the whole incident and hospital name is known, we can forward it to the TV channels and newspapers, I am sure at least one journalist will be interested to find the truth and publish it fully.

Friends, stop our routine OS / related wars for some time, lets unite in this matter. Together we can make a difference.

[ray|raven]

^I agree very much, if it is indeed true,
we are in a sad state in our country.
Let us try our best to have our voice heard.
Let us start an online petetion urging the govt to take action.

And yes, OS wars can hang on, we can have those any day of the year.

[din]

If any mod / admin reading this, I beg them to make this a sticky. Thank you.

[MetalheadGautham]

If any mod / admin reading this, I beg them to make this a sticky. Thank you.
me too.

Lets add a poll.

This is a human issue.

[hullap]

OMG. :(
Cruel humans.i agree with infrapls create a online petition

[narangz]

Digg?

[praka123]

this is sad,if it is true

[MetalheadGautham]

Digg?
good idea.

[din]

I think we need to wait till we know the hospital name. Else it will be like shooting with no target.

[vaithy]

One member here already guessed correctly the name of the hospital... When i wrote i was simply in the shock state at 11.30 p.m at midnight I compiled this posting..

previously I only know the father's side.. it is wrong to post the matter without the Hospital in question given adequate chance to reply to the allegation.. so now I am thinking on behalf of hospital authority/management..
they give the services to the deceased family.. this fact is not disputed.. and there is a high amount of bill, again this is not disputed, for the eyes taken out father has given some paper signed to the hospital .. this may be the authorisation .. so nothing wrong.. after death of the boy the eyes may be used for giving life to another soul... but the organs taken out of the body, the boy's father has no proof... because he only see the stiching in the abdomen, where as the injury is to head and legs... so he presume some thing taken out.. the Hospital may not dare to take out the organ without the permission of the father .. they may give you the signed document to prove the points.. further since there is a considerable delay that I get the news, the father now only wanted, that everybody left him alone.. but I am thinking about thousands of fathers like him in India, who are suffering the Corporate health care syndicate in India!!..

I told my family, if anything happened my organs may be gifted to any Govt. Hospital where only poor are taking treatment...

with sorrows,
vaithy

[rohan_shenoy]

but the organs taken out of the body, the boy's father has no proof... because he only see the stiching in the abdomen, where as the injury is to head and legs... so he presume some thing taken out.. the Hospital may not dare to take out the organ without the permission of the father ..
The stich marks may be due to post mortem conducted on his body. Not necessarily due to "taking organs out of the body".

BTW could you plz edit the first post because you said that that the hospital had taken away all the organs and in the have post you said that father just "presumed". ;)

[din]

Vaithy, very valid point and I was about to post the same.

I mean, we do not know the other side. Whether they took all organs without his Dad's permission, which are all organs they took, whether they took any organs at all (like the injuries may be coz of the accident and surgery and may not be because they took organs ?).

So may be we will wait before we jump into conclusions. and I totally agree with Vaithy's post above.

Glad we all decided to wait a bit !

[vaithy]

when I said the story on the side of the father, it was the certainty but when I told on the side of Hospital,'it is presumed'. by mistake I type all organs instead of 'all the vital organs' i.e., kidney and liver..You can tell whether a bag is empty or not even without seeing inside.. obviously the DAD may know the Son's physical appearance.. Now what about eyes?.. . but I'll post after inquiring the co-worker who passed the story.. The co-worker didn't know the boy personaly as he was working in the another project in the same office.. further there is no unity among the workers of BPO, they are like a modern slaves working for foreigners except few workers, no body bother to enquire about the incident...If any body working in BPO pl PM me I want to know how such incident are taken on behalf of the deceased employee, by the BPO management

thanking you,
vaithy

[vaithy]

Further enquiry with the co-worker reveal the following: the co-worker has never worked with the deceased as they are in different project only occassionaly seen in canteen. One of the manager of the BPO has given more details on the deceased, but on the conditions that the BPO name should not be dragged in to this affair.. they have already helped to the family as per lega requirements.
the Boy's name Ajith,Accident happened on 1 st march 2008, when the boy taken his salary return home at 8 P.M there is dark portion of the road side, he was hit by a speeding vechicle.. seen by the friends ,and taken to nearest hospital, named,'Mehtha Hospital'. On examination the hospital told them injury was on the head, and concluded that a vital nerve (I think it is brain nerve) was damaged, and they have no facility for attended this type.. they didn't tell them which hospital to take the boy..the friends immediately panicked, taken the boy to the nearest 'Superspeciality Hospital' They immediately admitted him.. but the documents were not signed by the father, he couldn't understand it (don'tknow English) One cousin who come with the father has signed on behalf of father, but he also didn't read what were written inside.After three days the boy dead.At the time of release of body, the hospital staff has told the father, since he is not in a position to pay three lakh bill they take some exchange in lieu of the bill.(eye sockets filled with cotton swap, from chest to abdomen indicated nothing inside) and the angry father was told, that indeed permission was taken from him (which he hotly denied) The BPO managment which had to reimburse the medical expenses(the boy is temporary staff) think the treatment worth around Rs1 lahk only. It want to avoid any involvement in the fight between Hospital and the father of the boy.
I am willing to realease the address portion of the the Father with phone number if any news paper/TV channel in chennai(I am not acquinted with any of them). Any member in chennai may pl PM me

Thanking you,
vaithy

[sourav123]

Sad news.

[vaithy]

Now the co-worker of the boy has got death report issued by the Police Inspector on which the postmortem certificate endorsed by the Head of Dept,Department of Forensic Medicine, Kilpauck medical College Hospital, One donation consent form for 'Eyes and blood samples" signed by the nearest relative...and another is certificate issued by the Corporation of Madras for 'burial ground Report of Death'

So far, my posting are only a heresay, nothing more..Monday I'll attach the documents copies after scanning the documents Except eye donation and blood sample donation consent form, other forms are in Tamil...
Death Report:
R-4 PONDY BAZAR TR INV. PS Cr.no.162/tn2/2008@304 A IPC & 184 M.V. ACT (SELF), u/s338 ipc & 184 MV act (self)
2.Name: Ajith Kumar s/O Babu
3.Date of Date 04-03-2008 at 18.00 hrs 4. Place of Death : ******* Hospital Ward.
5.Professsion: ****** Associate (**marked are BPO name, the documents without their help could not be obtained, so their name are not dragged here.
7. Whether to be buried /burnt: Burried,
8. Name of the Burial ground : Nungambakkam burial ground.

post Postmortem endorsement isssued on 05-03-08 at 4-15 P.m

curiously the 'Voluntary donation form for Eyes and Blood sample' is not issued by the Hospital where the Boy dead, it is in the name of another Hospital (eyespecialist ) nearest to it.. no where it mentioned that the eyes are exchanged for three lahk rupees. this is the only evidence that the eyes has taken out in lieu of fees.. But they mentioned it as 'voluntary' no date is mentioned there, also the form is only a carbon copy which is given to the boy's brother in law who signed it on the dotted line.. The death is mentioned 04-03-08 at 11.PM .

Now the question is.. when a accident happened then it become Law subject.. the body which damaged in the process is treated as property of State.. In the analogy, if the body is due for Postmaortem, then how can hospital remove eyes and other parts in the body sent the remaining to PM..
why there is no police objection filed ? why the Govt doctor who perform the postmortem didn't file the objection.?... why the case which was involved in accident is treated as self implicated (No opposition involved.. according to police theory the boy implicate the accident on his own???)
There is some Tamil saying.."when devils ruled, 'veda's obliged to eat Dead corps ..

[din]

@vaithy

I totally agree with you and share the same feelings :(

But I do not know what we can do in this matter. I know this is injustice (if the police didn't start investigation on the accidents and if there is no explanation / details of organ donation)

On the other hand, if it is just the eye donation, we can't blame the hospital authorities. I mean thinking on a positive way, the poor family lost the guy, but if any blind man /woman in the world get sight and see what light is, just because of the person who died, that is a good thing.

Of course, I do not know whether the approval was sought to remove eyes, whether the person who got the eyes had to pay for it etc. Nothing I know.

On a different note, I have another idea.

Anyway to get the bank details of any family members ? I mean the name, branch name and account number may be ? I think we may not be able to do anything legally, atleast for the time being - as there are no solid proof. But what we can do is to help the poor family, donate what we can. That is why.

What do you think ? Is it a good idea ? Please comment on.

[vaithy]

din, pl watch my P.M..
thank you,
vaithy

[vaithy]

Dear Din,

Just think about it..A father who has just lost his breadwinner of the family was presented with Rs.three lahks / demand, and couble of form to be signed so he can get decent burial for the body.. one of the relative signed.. later he received the body without some organs, which the hospital told him as 'donation' / they are magnimous so they drop the demand..
on the other side there is a law... A donation will be a voluntary and no coercion involved by any party to the decision.. didn't the presentation of high amount of bill (without any clarification ..what are the services?).. worse the father now even don't has the satisfaction that he had just paid the bill by body parts of his son..Very cleverly, instead of exchange document, they put the donation document of another Hospital , so they later they can always deny that they ever made any such exchange.. on the other hand the family is still under debt to the Hospital for Rs three lahks..Just a phone call to the local police station, can put entire family into jail for non-payment of Hospital fees..
I know my ranting wouldn;t help the family.. so let us make some concrete suggestion how to help them without attracting the Hospital ire?

Here the full address:
Mr.Babu Nair
F/o Ajithkumar(deceased)
7/17, aranganathan street,
Chetput, Chennai: PIN_600031

phone No.64614413

Digit Members who are Malayalee can help the poor family by contacting the local relatives or friends to advise them give some form of support to the the family, Although a Tamilian, I only think of them another fellow Indian who suffer under worst corruption forces..So far I have no direct contact with them.. only through the co- workers, so if any body has contact with the family pl introduce me as a relative of one of the co- worker.. tht is enough for me..
My special thanks to 'din' who share the same agony of the family with me..
Again my advance thanks to all the members9irrespective of their language barriers, who has gave the warmest support in this matter..
Thanks for all

with regards vaithy

[praka123]

@Din:Cant we report this to local malayalam newspapers?
with a famous hospital name in target,I doubt whether Malayala Manorama will carry this!

[vaithy]

Praka,
thanks you for your concern... But revenge is not the matter here.. How to help the family in distress , who had lost the breadwinner..I give phone number.. some body speaking malayalam can enquire them, what are the requirements, also genral enquiry about whether the Hospital releive them for any future payment, or they give any detailed bills for the services rendered..

As rightly pointed by 'Din' any further antagonism against the Hospital prove to be the counter productive, and the family itself may suffer further as a result of this..Hospital should be teached some lesson no doubt.. but this need some additional documents, such as, Police register for accident, case diary, as well as the complete postmaortem report whether additional organs other than the eyes had been intact while the postmortem performed ?.. this involved conflict with the law officers which we don't want at present..
Please ask one of digit member in chennai to speak to the family.. It is the family 's welfare that is the matter now.. if they don't need any help now, we simply close this thread..

thanking you,
vaithy

[din]

@vaithy

Thanks a lot for the details. I will sure make a phone call and will get maximum details and will find a way to help them. With the help of friends, I am sure we will be able to donate something to the poor family. It may not come to 3 lakhs or any huge amount like that. But I am pretty sure even a small amount will help them in this condition.

@praka123

We also thought of that first. But on a second thought, that does not sound as a good idea. The main reason is, there is no solid proof. So we just can't give publicity by putting it in newspapers or calling TV channels. That may worsen the situation

@all Digit forum members

How many time we blame our Government, how many time we blame for slow internet speed, how many time we complain for things which are luxurious for some other people. Why not get united in this cause ? Why not donating something to the poor family ? Please make this thread active. We may not be able to make anything against the hospital or we may not be able to help anything in the investigation. The family lost a guy just like every one in this forum. He might be like one of us. Young, educated, working in a company, having a lot of dreams for him and for his family. And all of his dreams and his family's dreams shattered by the fatal accident, the poor family lost a member which they will never get back. Only thing we can do is, to help them. Consider ourselves as very lucky, we have a lot of things in our life which many other Indians does not have. Why not sharing a small percentage with the poor family of our friend ?

Please think about it, please suggest what we can do. No legal battle or publicity movements. Just some noble way to help the family, mostly in the finance.

Special thanks to Vaithy and I really hope others will agree and make this a good movement.

Thank you dear friends.

[din]

OK, I made a call in the morning. I guess his mom attended the call. I was lil nervous as I was not sure what to talk or how. I hope I manged it anyway.

The accident happened on March 1 (so he was in hospital for 3 days ?) , I didn't ask much details as his mom was very sad and they do not know me in real too. I asked them whether they got any help from any other kerala people residing there (like association etc) and she said they didn't. They are running a small tea shop and it is closed after his death and they didn't re-open it yet.

I told them some of my friends decided to make a small donation / help and whether they have any problem accepting it. She was so sad and couldn't complete talking, but asked me to call after 10.00. Seems I will be able to talk to the cousin.

I will keep you updated.

Anyone in this forum want to contribute something (however small the amount may be, it really matters it seems) please make this thread active. That is the least we can do for the family, I mean a small help financially.

[narangz]

Hi Din sir,
How can we donate? I mean the method. I am a student but want to help.

[din]

I made the second call and I will post more details very soon.

Hope other Digit members will join with me n Vaithy in this.

[din]

Updates :

I made another call today and got the details. I got their bank account details, it does support core banking, so we can donate money by depositing to their account from any place.

I am planning on a six page website (mostly done !) to give details. The site will not accept any donations, it will give info of the family, their contact info and bank details, so people can contact them directly and can donate too.

@narangz

Really appreciate your decision, I will post bank details later today or tomorrow.

Any other members interested ?

[slugger]

Hi,
I am not in a postion to make any monetary contribution towards the family [studyin]. I, however have written a post on my blog about this

Family loses its sole breadwinner along with his organs (http://www.shubhspace.co.cc/2008/04/family-loses-its-sole-breadwinner-along.html)

I expect some visitor to my blog will take note of this NEWS and come forward to help them.

I shall also bring up this topic when I'm among my freinds [in real and online life].

[vaithy]

thanks slugger,
the help always need not be monetary, even in the form of spreading the word will help them..the father yet to open his teashop, so consolation from the unknown wishers will indeed help them to recover from the sorrow
thank you

[din]

@slugger

This is really nice of you. A very good and very fast move from your side. Much appreciated.

[infra_red_dude]

Din, I wanna help too.

[din]

Infra, very happy to know you are with us. Together we can sure make a difference. And I think it is our duty too.

PS : Please check PM ok ?

[slugger]

@din & @vaithy

It was no problem. I would like to help the family in any way I can. I had talked to my friends about it. Initial reaction has been to do something for the family. May even contact the family on the address given.

Will keep you all updated in the event of any positive development

[vaithy]

internet is more powerful weapon than any of us realise it potential..It has no border no state.. no caste, no religion.. it bond the people in to one.. they share joy ,sorrow, events among them..we may small in size.. but it is not matter.. your Motive should be bigger one.. don't think you are small you are lone.. nothing like it.. it is not necessary that you only help the family in the posting... there in your neighbouhood you can see many like them defenceless ,powerless needing your attention.. U can help them!!

thanks for all the digitians again !

vaithy

[infra_red_dude]

Yeah Din, got it :)

[din]

And here it is

http://www.helpthefamily.org (http://www.helpthefamily.org)

Please leave your comments.

[smit]

i have dugg this news, please fourm members digg it & support this family,

http://digg.com/people/Help_A_Family_in_Need

[narangz]

Thank you Din Sir. I'll help as much as I can.
You are really a nice person & took the pain to create the site. I really appreciate that.

[din]

@narangz

No, all credits goes to Vaithy, the senior member here.

We are all a group behind the site, do not leave me alone :)

Please suggest and comment on the site, also please suggest what more we can do to help them.

[T159]

PS : Please talk in a very nice manner to the family members are they are all very sad and still in the shocked state. You can talk to Mr.Babu Nair (M.BABU - Ajith's father) or Ajith's mother or Vinod (Ajith's cousin)

please correct this, its appearing in atleast three pages.

[din]

Thank you for pointing out. Fixed the typo.

[din]

Any suggestions on - what more we can do on this ?

[DigitalDude]

digg effect might not work in this case... so submitted to indianpad.com

http://www.indianpad.com/story/232357

vote there ppl..



p.s. din.. tamilnadu spelling is wrong in the first page first paragraph :D

_

[din]

@DigitalDude

Thank you for the help. That is really nice of you.

Meantime, sorry for the typo (seems I am getting old again :(). Fixed it.

[W i d e S c r e e N]

This here is a very important thread. Injustice happens to many in god's green earth but what people do about it counts as much as whats taken place.

I sympathize with the suffered and applaud the efforts of forum members who have gone out of their way to help the cause.

One can help a great way if from the family, they can get a job it would be steady income and a long term help for the family.

Members who live in Chennai surely will have some thing that can help the Family with a job.?

[vaithy]

I have visited them on saturday.. they live in a rathole like portion under chetput Railway bridgework's side, the brother-in-law is looking after them. The father couldn't come out of his grief, weeping like a five year old child...I suspect that he is on the verge of losing his sanity..Ever he saw the state of the body when they returned, he became like that..they believe some time he may become normal.. but even after one month of the boy's death, no change in his grief striken mind..I try to console him,' the boy now with the God..he'll be happy if his parents are not suffered like this.."but soundless weeping is his only answer.."
the father is not a teashop owner as I wrote before..he was a single worker in a small shop (in chennai many of the single worker teashop are not own by them, but some others, after the tragedy the shop is closed now.. being a good teamaker he may find a good job in any of the restaurant here.. but he has to think of it..now he has no wish to live on..Unless he accept that his beloved boy is no more.. no body can help him...

vaithy

[DigitalDude]

^^^
sad very very sad :( life can be very mean sometimes :(


btw din consider this http://www.chipin.com/ as a way to raise funds... even if 100 people give $10/$5 we will get a substantial amount.. but where that 100 people will come from I dunno much.. may be NRI's or people with some paypal balance ?


_

[din]

@DigitalDude

Thank you for the suggestion, but I am not very sure whether to go for it. Friends, please comment on.

The reason being, the site (http://www.helpthefamily.org) gives all info about the family, their bank details etc so that people can donate / help / get in touch with Ajith's family directly - Which makes it very transparent isn't it ?

Now if the site act as an intermediate or start a new paypal address etc (at least that is what I see in chipin.com, I mean we have to give a paypal adress to which people donate), people may suspect there is something suspicious, can't blame them.

What do you think ? Please leave your suggestions / comments.

Another thing is I requested the mods to make this thread a sticky, at least for a month or so. Other members reading this, please request the same to the mods.

[DigitalDude]

^^^^

ok agreed...


I thought some people here would have paypal balance but not much in bank account.. so they can send it to reputed members like you or vaithy who will in turn transfer that amount to the family :)


_

[vaithy]

Thanks DigitalDude!

but instead of directly forwarding the amount to me, members can sent the money orders to the affected family. by this the whole process is transparent as well as the members got signed acknowledgement from the family.. may God bless all the good souls here who are trying to help the unknown peoples who suffered under distress!!

vaithy

[din]

First - Thanks a lot Vaithy for taking the pain to go there and meet the family members. I was nervous talking to them even over phone ! So I know it was not easy to talk to them in person, I mean they are in such a sad situation :(

Very sad to know Ajith's father's condition. Really hope he overcome it and everything becomes normal. As we say, may be time heal all wounds.

Updates seen in the website.

The home page and About The Family (http://helpthefamily.org/about-the-family.html) page has Ajith's photo now.

Ajith's mother started a bank account with Indian Bank, that info is also given in the How Can I help (http://helpthefamily.org/how-to-help-the-family.html) page.

Phone number has been removed from the site due to privacy reasons, but if any one need it, pm Viathy / me / send email as specified in the site. All other details are in site.

Vaithy has the scanned / photo copy of the documents like death certificate etc. Im him / me if you want to verify anything.

Once again, thanks a lot for the support, it is making a difference in their family.

Note: Also, I know majority of Digit forum members are like students etc and may not be in a position to help the family financially. Please do not worry. Do whatever you can. Like spreading the word by mouth, by email, by forum postings, by blogs and all other ways you can think of. It all matters.

And as Vaithy suggested - anyone in Chennai in a position to help Ajith's father ? Like getting him a job, even a very small job will do. I think once he restart working, he will be back to normal slowly.

[vaithy]

Din,
my suggestions, His name may be under the photo with his date of birth and date of death..
Now we have sufficient documents 'removal of heart ,kidneyand eyes may be told even from the hospital points of view.. simply copy the death summary report of the hospital.says,' according to the hospital sources..... paste the lines about organs donations. Let the visitors decide what actually happened? perhaps you may contacts other friends also..
If necessary, Hospital documents may be given downloadable link to anyone want to view it, again I am not sure, hospital may say that the hospital documents are confidence correspondence with the patients, they could not be publised in any other public forums..perhaps we need some statement signed by the mother to give necessary permission to publish it..discuss the matter with others...

about the job, first the father had to take the initiative..he has lost any interest in life.. so it is better the family should bring him back to normal..

with regards,
vaithy

[drgrudge]

Thread Stuck

Do you want me to change the title of the thread? Might attract a few more eye balls.

[infra_red_dude]

Do you want me to change the title of the thread? Might attract a few more eye balls.

Yep, would be better.

[drgrudge]

^^
These days it feels that mud slurry is flowing in my brain and not blood. Please suggest a appropriate title or I'll mess up here.

[narangz]

^^Help a family?
or something similar?

P.S.-
Suggestion:
If anyone knows someone in a news agency/ news paper then ask him/her to carry the news item on the website?

[DigitalDude]

"Help the suffering family of a young accident death victim. Hospital suspected to be stealing body parts to settle bills"

long ?


_

[din]

First - thanks a lot Drudge for making this a sticky.

Regarding the topic title, may be Vaithy can suggest more ? As he is the thread starter. Something that has 'Help The Family' and 'Pay hospital bill by body parts" will be better I think

Something like - "Help the family who lost a member in an accident - Had to pay hospital bill by body parts" - hmm bit long. Any suggestions ?

Regarding the documents - I have slightly different opinion in this matter. I fully trust Vaithy even before seeing the documents, even before making phone call to Ajith's parents. And with the documents Vaithy have now (he got it from Ajith's family members when he visted them last week) we can convince other people. I mean the hospital took organs etc.

But the thing is - Will that be of any use ? I mean we all know the hospital took the organs of the person, very tactically. But they have solid proof in their side. The family members were shocked and very sad, the hospital people took advantage of it and got written consent from them to remove it. So even if anyone go legally against the hospital, it will be very tough. In addition to that the family may not be in a position to go legal. I mean as they are very poor and there is no solid support (like a very good lawyer or a good NGO or something like that) behind them and they may be worried on the consequences (form hospital people) and finally thinking about their written consent, they may not move ahead in this matter.

I may be wrong, but please give a thought on this.

I am not discouraging Vaithy and I am not against showing the document part. We should give all the details including the organ donation part etc in forum and emails (may be just check whether it has any legal issues - like whether it is confidential or soemthing - should not be like that I guess, but just to make sure), but may be we can give importance to - Help The Family - only in the website ? Members, please suggest.

Regarding newspaper - yes it is a good idea. But may need to get permission form the family first. May be we can ask the newspaper people to go there directly.

Ajith's cousin made a call today, I told him I removed the phone number from the website, also added Ajith's mother's Bank Account details.

[slugger]

I had used the title "Family loses its sole breadwinner along with his organs" (http://www.shubhspace.co.cc/2008/04/family-loses-its-sole-breadwinner-along.html) on my blog

@din

Sorry for not responding back to you earlier. I had read and checked the site the same afternoon but was unable to compose an appropriate response [inertia being one of the reasons]. I want to send you a pm and shall do so tonight.

Regards :)

[din]

@slugger

No problem. What you have done is an excellent thing. I mean the blog post. I am very happy Thinkdigit has such great members who want to help others.

Also, I think Slugger's blog post title is really good, may be we can use the same title here if he do not mind ? But will wait for Vaithy's suggestion as he is the thread starter.

[vaithy]

Thanks for the members as well as the 'mod' here for making the thread as sticky..usually my posting always some thing about my organisation as well general news.. i never feel or make such a social cause will affect many members here which predominantly consists of I.T. professionals as well as students.. the story affect me great deal so as a man who possessed to help the family, I posted the thread..My good luck 'din' has picked the thread and put a powerful base for continuing the thread for helping the family in need..besides he made a separate website with his own money..besides many friends here either put the story on their own blogs, or some other websites.... So this thread has affected many members here..
Now this is the time to change the title of the thread...here are the my views
every day we saw or hear many incidents in our neighbourhood or in our town, never come in to public ,news, t.v. etc/ even the members need not post any such incident in separate thread as this mainly a technology forum, so thier news can be posted here, based on these we may perhaps discuss ,investigate and enquire about the incidents with the help of members in the respective locations..
What sort of news ? organs trading, human trafficking,child labour,child abuse etc.,the affected party should be known or the location known to the poster.. this make the victim's location traceable and benefit can reach them...
i f we can help one family, it is possible to help others equally deserved...We are not a NGO, not the GOVT neither the social organisation..but somehow by bring the news and actively discussing such thread can lead to wide awareness, and subsequently reach the organisation who are taking their causes..
here are my titles and comments!

1)Help the helpless!! (this like a 'cry' compaign or some sort of donation drive readers may vary to go through once they see the title..
2)The news of body raiders!!! ( may induce some one read but can it convert to help?)
3)The untold stories of less fortunates!!(this is much appropriate general topic title,here we bring less known atrocities committed on less fortunates peoples, and bring their tales in to lime lights..)

Each of the story may have some tag, such as 'Ajith's story' will refer to the first story published in this series... thus if any one want to refer and go back to old stroy simply refer as Ajith's story'..

Now members can contribute their idea how the thread can be live and useful to helping the suffering peoples..

vaithy
Note: When I compose the notes, I didn't see the slugger's post and din's reply, din himself aptly explained why the organ as well as the mention of hospital is not repeated here..Now the family's story is separately mentioned in separate website as well as blog post et., we may refrain from repeating the same here.. it'll be a overkill..

vaithy

[din]

That is really nice suggestion from Vaithy. I mean keeping the thread sticky and discussing similar issues. Like someone very trusted should verify the incident and then we will discuss what we can do on that.

@slugger

Thanks a lot for the suggestion, sorry, was bit busy last few days, couldn't make the changes, but I will do it asap.

I also contacted another friend and he promised me that he will write an article in his blog.

One of my friends in UK (NRI, was my classmate in Engineering college) asked me whether she can join in this, she is not from ThinkDigit. I told her we are very happy in that. she will be sending emails and links to many of her friends. Hope it will work. She told me shes sending a cheque as well.

Main thing is convincing the people I think. As they get hundreds of scam / spam emails every day, can't blame them too.

Anyway, very happy a lot of Digit members came forward in this matter and trying to help the family directly and indirectly.

[infra_red_dude]

Din, did you implement the auto-mail-responder for the details?

[din]

Infra,

No, but Vaithy showed the website to Vinod (Ajith's cousin) and confirmed that they do not have any problems giving the address etc in the website. I talked to them over phone on another day and asked about it again. So I thought we will keep it like that. I mean leaving the address in site.

Only suggestion form them was to remove the phone number, so I removed it.

I think by giving the full information like address, location, bank details etc - we are making it very transparent isn't it ? So that peolpe can contact them directly, it will help them to verify the incident also (for those who think its a scam etc).

What do you think ?

Also, got my pm ?

[infra_red_dude]

Infra,

No, but Vaithy showed the website to Vinod (Ajith's cousin) and confirmed that they do not have any problems giving the address etc in the website. I talked to them over phone on another day and asked about it again. So I thought we will keep it like that. I mean leaving the address in site.

Only suggestion form them was to remove the phone number, so I removed it.

I think by giving the full information like address, location, bank details etc - we are making it very transparent isn't it ? So that peolpe can contact them directly, it will help them to verify the incident also (for those who think its a scam etc).
Actually its not about the family's consent. Its more about some form of harm being caused to them by external agencies due to it. Thats my only concern.

What do you think ?

Also, got my pm ?
Err.. No.. when did you send it?

[din]

I totally understand and ready to remove all contact info.

But why I was worried a lil -

I sent an email to many of my friends with the site link, posted in many forums. Majority think its a scam ! Can't blame them as we all get hundreds of emails every day. But only advantage is the address and other info that we provide in the website. I mean it makes it very transparent. We do not act as a medium of communication for the visitors and do not work as an intermediate in the $$$ donation part.

If we ask the visitor to send an email or fill out a form in the website to get the address or contact info of the family, they will surely suspect there is something suspicious.

I really understand your concern. It is a very valid point. But on the other hand I think about the credibility of the website too. One of my close friends wrote me - "...don't look so genuine and am unsure as they have removed the phone number..." (But that guy is my close friend and I sent him a very detailed reply with all details and he convinced) Even the phone number removal raises eyebrow (we had to remove it as per the suggestion from the family members) so I am not sure how the visitors will react to the contact info removal.

I totally agree we should give more importance to the family, so if all think we should remove address part from the website, please let me know I will sure do it.

Never mind on the PM. That was just the same thing, I mean the address / contact info part.

[narangz]

^^My friends said the same thing :( They don't believe it's true.

Well I can't blame them. :(

[din]

@narangz

Please do not give up. I have a terrible experience in another forum which I visit rarely. That was like joint attack and I was alone ! Finally our medpal came to resuce. He told other members that he know me for quite some time and he know I will not make / support a scam.

Regarding teh friend, I agree with you. Can't blame them, we all get a lot of scam emails every day.

Anyway if they are willing to check the documents or want to verify it, please pm Vaithy or me, we have the scanned documents (Vaithy got it from the family members, he scanned it).

Also if anyone willing to call them and verify, please feel free to give them the phone number / location as well ok ?

[narangz]

The thing is people suspect the creators of the site & then me! It hurts a lot.
Sending you a PM.

[din]

I am really sorry to hear that. Do not know what else we can do for them, also to convince the people :(

This link (http://www.techenclave.com/general-talk/please-help-the-family-spread-word-108669.html) is the one where I was under attack !

[narangz]

Nah... Why you should be sorry about that? You deserve to be appreciated.

We can't help it. Even I don't believe such things easily as we hear about such scams almost daily. But because of those scams the real needy persons go without any help.

[smit]

Why the hell you guys went to another forum, many people at digit forum refused to help, ok they can't help with the money but they didn't even spread it & they can't even digg(it takes one click) this story because they are full of pride & crap , what can you except from another forum ?

Anyway i have some sort of plan , i don't know if it will work or not , but if we try it for few days it might work, well i am not sure of it but atleast there is some hope that it will work, i think its better then relying on people full of crap & i blame them unlike you guys, you made a site for strangers & they can't even spread it or digg it or write in their blog or even try to find out if this is fake or not, they just seat in their chairs & say they will change the world or india govt. is crap but they can't do anything when it's their turn to prove something.

Anyway guys i want to discuss this plan on IM first before we start, please PM me your yahoo,hotmail, AIM ID & if you don't trust me , Post here if you are willing to take part in it & i will PM you my yahoo,hotmail,AIM ID.

[narangz]

People are more interested in OS wars & other topics where they can flame each other.

[din]

@smit

Thank you for the support. I sent pm as well.

To be honest, I was expecting the replies like that. I mean people prefer to sit in their office peacefully and curse the Govt, curse the lack of facilities, blame the system, blame on companies who do not provide support, but we all forget our commitment towards the society.

I am 100% sure there will be hundreds of replies if this topic has any relation to some OS ! People will come from all corners and will start a heated up discussion here.

I do not know what else we can do in this matter, I am always open to suggestion. As always the website is not mine, it is ours, the group who really want to help the poor family. So please feel to leave your suggestions, we can discuss it and we can move on it.

I think there is no need to wait on other members - here or any other forum. None of us have / had any personal interests in this. Everything is for the family and for the society. We should keep trying, result may be positive, it may be negative. At least at the end of the day we will get satisfaction that we have done something for the people who need help.

[infra_red_dude]

We must get this to the media somehow. At least the local media in other cities. Anyone haf contact with any Newspapers? We can make them actually speak with the family and let them acertain the matter.

[din]

OK, That is a good idea. I do not think anyone contacted the media guys yet.

Shall I make a call to them and ask for the permission first ? I mean the family, whether they have any problem newspaper / TV guys visiting them regarding this matter ?

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ Yes, definitely. Their permission is needed!

[vaithy]

Din and other members.. thanks for your efforts..

we did our duty to the family, by spreading the words, among thousands viewer even a ten persons offer the help to the family it is big enough.. so let it be.. don't be disheartened, if response is not good...
Because people think this wouldn't happened to me..So they may ignore such news.. But when some sort of injustice happened to them or their nearest relative, then they may understand How much pain the family undergone in such situation

[narangz]

@Smit- I got your PM buddy. But I feel you should discuss that with din & vaithy sir because they are more mature & they know the ground realities better than me. I hope you got my point.

[din]

@vaithy

I was lil hurt after the TE episode, but now I take it in the right spirit, I mean not blaming anyone. I will not give up and will keep trying in this matter.

@Smit

The best thing is we can discuss your ideas here. Please feel free to post whatever you think that will help in this matter, as there are many members showed their interest in helping the family.

I sent a pm to you with my email address as well.

[narangz]

I forwarded an email to all my contacts. Let's see if we get results.

[din]

Small good news.

As I was being criticized by the members at TE forum, I decided to write a polite request to the mods of the forum to edit my first post (To mention that anyone who want to verify can pm me and I will send the copies of documents) and to make the post a sticky. The mods helped me and they made it a sticky.

This is the thread in TE (http://www.techenclave.com/general-talk/please-help-the-family-spread-word-108669.html)

Thank you mods and members, who supported me at TE.

[vaithy]

dear Din,

What I first posted here was some unconfirmed reports from heresay, through third party only.. So my post here should not be base for any other posting by you in any other forum..
After posting here, I have sent u the necessary documents.. even the hospital and doctors phone numbers are there.. So we have to decide , whether to take the hospital on the one hand or helping the family... if it is on the first account no members will join us.. but if we want to help the family, then we simply put the facts, omitting the pressure put on the family.. also the documents are not for our private keeping..members usually suspect can a Hospital took organs without the consent of the family.. we have a documents which says , the Hospital part," after the informal consent from the family the body was move to operation room for harvesting the heart , kidney and eyes for future use" even this document oppose the family's point, this fact should be put on the website..because a good journalism will always probe two side opposing each other,..
When we put a two differents view in the website, and let the visitors, and members be judges, may perhaps give some respectability to our words...also in forum the moderators and owners of the site are responsible for any legal consequences of our posting.. so we have to first consult them..( after showing the necessary documents on which basis our posting are made)
I am thinking if any one can help the family, then it is the CEO of the BPO firm where the Boy was employed..Whether separate e-mail request to the CEO to give some form of employment to the father in the BPO premises( he may be given some sort of contract based teashop running inside the canteen, or employed as teamaker in the canteen it self..
any other suggestion?

[din]

I was trying to contact the family members regarding the media coverage. Ajith's cousin was not there in the morning, so I called them at night and talked to them.

I explained them how media coverage may help them in this matter, like internet is a very powerful and useful media, but lot of people prefer newspapers, TV etc and we may get more coverage by that etc. They said they do not have any problem media persons contacting them.

Any members here know any media guys directly ? Like any one working in newspapers / TV etc ?

Anyway, I am planning to meet the 'Mathrubhumi' newspaper office, not sure when I can, but hopefully this week itself. That is a leading newspaper here in Kerala. Regarding TV channels, do not know which one will be interested in this.

Any suggestions / comments ?

@vaithy

When I called them, I mentioned your suggestion also, seems Ajith's cousin already met the head of the BPO company and talked to them regarding the matter. I mean to check whether there is any chance of giving Ajith's Dad a small job. They said they are checking that it seems.

Please check my pm too ok ?

[infra_red_dude]

Din, lets make sure that the coverage is not there in the city/area/state where the hospital has contacts. We will only be causing harm to the family. Thats why I was a bit skeptical on this... We need to ensure the safety of the family. That is utmost important.

[din]

Update:

I am planning to meet the newspaper people tomorrow morning. Not 100% sure, but most probably tomo itself. Please leave your suggestions / comments before I leave ok ?

What my plan is - I will not ask them to write an article based on the website or incident I tell (I am sure they will not do it too). What I am planning is to give them information about the family. About the accident, how pathetic their condition now etc. And will ask them to verify the incident, meet the family members in person etc. Surely they will have their people in Chennai, so I think if they take it seriously, they will meet the family members and will talk to them in detail.

The newspaper Mathrubhumi (http://www.mathrubhumi.com) usually give importance to such articles, so I really hope they come n help the family in this matter too.

I will keep you updated.

[rohan_shenoy]

What does Ajith's cousin Vinod do?

[din]

Rohan, Ajith's cousin (Vinod) is working in a Bank (Temp Job I think), in the personal loan section or so.

He is taking care of the family now. As Ajith's father is not recovered from the shock yet and not back to normal condition.

[rohan_shenoy]

Who are the other cousins he has?

[din]

I am not very sure, why ?

I talked to Ajith's mom over phone, talked to Vinod many times. Couldn't talk to Ajith's Dad yet. Vaithy went and met them all.

I think the family consists of Ajith's sis (got married, not staying with them), Ajith's parents and Vinod (may be he is staying with them after the incident)

[rohan_shenoy]

I am not very sure, why ?
I am asking this because anybody would like to know what help they are already receiving from their relatives. BTW do you know what salary he draws, does he have any other financial commitments or obligations?

I think the family consists of Ajith's sis (got married, not staying with them), Ajith's parents and Vinod (may be he is staying with them after the incident)
If that is true, how come there is no mention about his sister and her husband anywhere in the scene?


Also, there are many obvious discrepancies in the description of the background of this case. So I doubt what kind of response this initiative would get.

Where do Ajith's parent stay? How big is their house in comparison to their needs?

Don't be offended but I am asking this because there may be some alternative instead of urging the masses.

It is obvious information presented on the website or this thread is incomplete and would not convince the majority to be empathetic. May be you should update the info.

[din]

Rohan,

I really understand and no problem at all. Please feel free to ask.

I agree with you. Majority of people still think its a scam, it is very hard to convince them. And we can't blame them too. Main thing is - we have certain limitations in this.

First - I guess you have gone through the entire thread. My idea was to give more importance to help the family and not much into the hospital issues (reasons already explained in the posts). That makes it slightly weak in presenting.

Second - I tried to collect maximum information I can. Vaithy also tried his level best. But as you know, we can't ask for all details, like Vinod's financial condition or lot more about Ajith's family. We are not any media persons, they do not know us in real (they met only Vaithy in real, I contacted them only through phone). Another thing is, the family is not back to normal condition yet. When I talked to Ajith's mom, she couldn't even complete talking, she was crying half the time. So I couldn't ask a lot. And I do not think I will be able to ask a lot of questions to them :( I am helpless in that matter. And as you know (none of us are journalists or can't talk / ask like them) we have limitation asking too much personal information. So do not know how to collect additional info.

Third - The website is made very transparent, like it gives as much info as possible and never act as an intermediate. Still I know it is not adequate for people who think it is scam or it is unbelievable. I sent an email to many of my friends. Those who know me very well believed it, other friends never even replied.

After these forum posts, email, website, I thought of contacting the media. The main reason is, the newspaper company will not publish it based on what I say. They will enquire about it properly, in most cases they will go meet the family in person. And if they publish it, it will reach more people and people will believe it. That will sure help the family.

Another point

Some of my friends suggested, we can't keep a family only on donations. I know that and fully agree with it. Keep giving them donation and money will not solve the problem and that is not the way too. This is like a temp help. Vaithy mentioned this at the very beginning itself and I agreed to that too.

First we are trying to provide the help in emergency. Next is helping Ajith's Dad to get a job. That will sure make things better. As the old saying (Thanks to Goobi)

"Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you feed him for life."

Ultimately thats our aim.

Regarding Ajith's Sis and husband

Again, I am not sure. First I thought shes not married. When I talked to Ajith's mom, I asked about it. She told me she got married and not staying with them. When I called Vinod, I asked him the same thing and he also told me the same. As I mentioned before, there is no way to verify these from our side.

From what they said, it seems true.

Regarding their house - Vaithy will be ale to tell more about it. From his posts, it is clear they are in a pathetic condition. Like a very small house in a railway colony.

Finally, please feel free to post the alternatives you mentioned in this thread itself. It will sure help. As we are all new to such a situation. We never made a site like this before, never tried to help in this way (through forum, email, website etc). So every suggestion / comment / idea will be very helpful.

Thank you.

[vaithy]

Dear Rohan, thanks for u r query,

Since u r in Mumbai, if I am ask u to discribe Dharavi residents how do u say... Chet put railway side is actually worsethan Dharavi.. there are buffalos roaming along with pigs in that area.. Their house is rented place in one of portion in the ground floor there may be five or six portion on both the ground floor and first floor. their portion consist of three rooms one Cooking room 9 x9 feet, one centre room which serve as bedroom as well as sitting room (10 x 10 feet) and one Puja room which is smaller than other (6 x 8 feet)

When i visit their portion, one lady (around 30 years age) sleeping in the bed, where the father was seen lying on the ground Mother was sitting on the side of bed on my coming lady awaken and on mothers intruction gone inside the cooking room. After enquired about the boy's death I asked them any of their relative come to help them. Mother was despairly show upon sky, god only help us. Vinoth says he is employed, but temporary.. my visit is purely for asserting first hand account of the accidents, and get the copy of the document that the organs removed by the hospital. When i wrote the post i was misinformed by the co-workers that the father was the owner of small tea shop.
It was in the same idea i repeately ask the family to open their shop.. Vinoth told me they have no shop as the father was not the owner but the worker...
Also must of my first posting has some errors because they were told by the co-workers.. but later direct enquiry by me and din has corrected many in the subsequent posting

thanks,
vaithy

[din]

OK, I went to the newspaper office and back home now.

They listened to me and discussed it for sometime. I explained everything and told them it is not easy to convince the people etc. They agreed to it. They are ready to help it seems. But asked me to contact their Chennai office (as the incident happened in Chennai and the victim / family belongs to Chennai). I think they are right, usually they put news like that. I mean in the edition which belong to that area.

They gave the phone number of the person to be contacted in the Chennai office.

I will wait for your suggestions. Call him and tell him about it ? Or will it cause any problems to the family as infra said ?

Please suggest / comment on.

[infra_red_dude]

What is the progress, din?

[din]

I am waiting for your suggestions before I contact the Chennai office (of the newspaper).

Shall I call them and give details ? Will it be a problem if the news appears in the Chennai edition ? I didn't mention anything about the hospital part when I talked to them.

Please comment on / suggest.

[FilledVoid]

Wow. I never thought this thread was about something like this. I usually think that most of the titles have some kind of weird joke in it and so I don't check them at all. Definitely sad news. I have read the details of the family and I will definitely take it upon me to do what I can for either of them. I am amazed at the effort you all have undertaken to do some good for the family in whatever way yopu have and are continuing to do so.

The reason most people query the authenticity of the issue is because in the current scenario every other email is some sad story waiting to rip you off. Genuine pleas for help tend to get drowned in the atrocious heaps of scams. Furthermore I don't know if many realize it but you don't actually have to donate money if you can't to help them out. Just telling this story to your friend or family and other members or a simple prayer may work wonders :) . (Please leave the religious flames if any out of this).

PS: Please deal with newspapers very carefully. If an ad were to tarnish the reputation of the hospital concerned , they will and I am 99% sure they will retaliate against the source , family or whoever. As far as I recall sources don't exactly get the same rights here in India as they would in US so you could be held liable.

[vaithy]

Dear FilledVoid
The only reason why din want to contact the newspaper is to help the family which was affected, in this case news paper has far reaching audiences,, but at the same time we have to understand newspapers are not for charity neither for any social case.. they want to sell their paper.. so whatever the caution that the news paper reporter taken it for publishing , the final outcome may be different... A sensational where the hospital name is given promptly displayed will attract more readers, at that same time, it may hurt the family.... but if the news papers didn't publish the story then it 'll affect the credential of the story, and affect the chances of help to the family..
however if we let the things happened, like Ajith kumar 's story.. it may happen anyone's!.
Here is the some event's recorded in the Ajithkumar's death report.."1st Marchl 2008, at 11.44 P.M admitted with gasping wound in the head, and emergently intubated and resuciated, after evaluated,by N.S it was felt surgery intervention not beneficial, so surgery was not done. on 2-03-08 morning the brain stem dysfunctioned ( he was clinically brain dead) Visitors of BPO friends and relatives who had to see the boys body told that he appear dead on 02-3-08 it self. but the Hosptal announced the dead on 04-03-08 18-hrs.

from the report itself it is clear that the hospital didn't attempt to operated to arrest the head bleeding..Because as per legal angle only from the brain stem death cases they can get cadaver donations for their million dollars business..

Hospital may not interested for saving poor family members if the victims happened to be brain stem injured.. so far the only operation conducted by the hospital was the remobval of eyes, kidney, and heart'as donation'..or payment of hospital bills..

[rohan_shenoy]

@Vaithy ,din all other others involved:
Please don't lose the perspective of your initiative. You want to help the family. So please don't get stuck as "hospital had removed the body parts and printing the hospitals name would endanger the family" or focus on proving the misdeed of the hospital.

Is mentioning the removal of organs by hospital really so important? What if those organs won't have been removed? Would they have anything better ?

The hospital had legally acquired rights for removal of his organs. Ajith's father had signed the documents. If his father could not read the documents, then he should have consulted somebody before signing the documents. Once the documents are signed, the hospitals side is "clean and without fault".

[FilledVoid]

The hospital had legally acquired rights for removal of his organs. Ajith's father had signed the documents. If his father could not read the documents, then he should have consulted somebody before signing the documents. Once the documents are signed, the hospitals side is "clean and without fault".

Lets not go to the legal aspects of anything in this thread. A contract is only bound if it is done by "Free Consent." When a persons child's life is hanging by a thread I'd like to see how many actually read anything because I'm willing to bet that common sense goes out of the window at that moment.

Personally I prefer leaving any involvement of the hospital out. However my words were only as a piece of advice to Din :). You may take it in whatever way you see fit / unfit.

[vaithy]

Mr. Din and my objective in the case is same, but we approach the matter very differently.
Mr.Din want to help the family immediately, so he bought a domain name as well as created the website exculsively..
mine share is very little except providing basic news as well as single visit to the family residence, and getting the relevant documents copies..

from the start of this thread, r. Din strongly advised me to keep the name of the Hospital as well as approaching media persons, as it harm the family's cause..

But mine is different.. not only the flight of the Ajith's family to be brought to fore, the question of the cadaver transplantation methods , and methods adopted by the so called superspeciality Hospitals to get the body parts to be discussed.

Since must of the Hospitals are in guilty of adopting dubious methods, isolating the single hospital and naming it in public wouldn't serve any purpose,,,
However if we not discuss the Hospitals part, then it may give the green signal to them,
as the number of brain injury patients( who are also poor) may end up without gettiing any urgent medical help ended up giving up their death parts!
Ajith is now History for his family, what ever help given to the family he wouldn't come back again...
My concern is for the thousands of Ajith's cases may be buried in the deep vallet, and morguery 's chambers with out their........

[din]

Dear FilledVoid and Rohan

Thanks a lot for the suggestions and comments and thank you for participating in the discussion.

I agree with most of the points you posted.

And Vaithy, after re-reading the entire thread and reading some comments from infra_red_dude and other members, I think you are right too.

To make it clear from my side, here are my suggestions.

If we contact the newspaper people, I think it is better we do not mention the organ-donation part. The reason being, it is always better they (news paper) people go there directly, meet the family members, talk to them, get / see all details and then write about them (that is how they will do I think too, I mean verifying things).

I do not think the family will tell anything about the organ-donation part to the media. Main reason is there are no people who give a solid support to the family- like an active NGO who fight against injustice, or any political party, or a strong group of citizens or some group on which the family can depend. Also, the family may not be interested for a legal war as they are very poor and they are not at all sure whether it will be a success.

So what my point is, even though the organ-donation part is injustice and unethical, in this case we can't do much on that and there may not be use in telling the news paper people about it too. (Under high pressure the family had to sign all papers, and now again under pressure the family may deny the organ-donation part or they may not even talk about it to the media - reason : fear).

I think we will continue our efforts in spreading the word and trying to reach out people who will be ale to help the family and may be will try to get Ajith's Dad a small job.

Coming back to Vaithy's point again.

What Vaithy mentioned is a very important point. And Rohan, FilledVoid and Vaithy are right in this, I mean when we are in such a situation, we may not even read / look at the papers, we may sign the papers without realizing what they are.

For example, I lived in a village till the age of 15 yrs. And 80 to 90% of the people out there do not know English. They trust the Doctors and medical institutes like God. If the Doc or Hospital people ask them to sign something, they will do it without any question or hesitation. And they will not even think of finding a person who can read English first, translate what is written in that, analyze, then sign the papers.

What I meant is, there are thousands of such villages in India. There are millions of such people who blindly trust the hospitals and Doctors and some very unethical guys take advantage of it :(

We should do some thing in this regard. Apart form Ajith's case, we should think what we can do to help the people. Like a general awareness thing.

Also, Rohan, yes, it may not make a difference for most of the people if the person who is dead lost his organs or not. After all we are all going back to earth (funeral) one day, and whether we have organs (or not ) at that time does not matter. If we can donate some organs at that time, it will be nice too. But things are different in this case. The hospital people very tactically removed the organs which is sure injustice and unethical. Yes, they have written permission from the family, but that is a one-way contract. The family under pressure had to do it. Not by their will.

I think we should focus on two things now. (This is just my suggestion and no way a decision in this matter or final word. Please feel free to criticize / comment on )

1. Ajith's case - We should help the family in all ways we can.

2. We should make the common man aware of such injustice and unethical practices are going on in this country. We should think about what we can do in this matter, I mean education / awareness etc.

[Stuge]

I'm feeling too bad now :(

[din]

OK, seems all are busy (I was too busy last week too ! Swamped with work).

Anyway, I am not sure how to proceed, I fully understand the points other members mentioned and the concerns too.

As none of us are in a position to give solid support to the family (I mean legally, against hospital etc), I think the best thing is to ask the news paper people to contact the family in person and talk to them. I think they will do it anyway - they may not give an article in news paper without verifying it.

Another thing is, they may not be able to put it in Kerala editions - reasons we can quite understand. So only way is to contact the Chennai office of the news paper.

Here is my plan - please comment on.

I have their Chennai office phone number (head of Bureau - his mobile number). I am planning to call him tomorrow to give details on the family as well as the website. I am not planning to explain the organ donation part. I will request the news head to verify the news by going there in person or sending some one to collect the news and details. Will ask them to give the news in such a way that - to help the family who's condition is very pathetic, who lost their earning member in an accident etc. Let the family members talk to the news agency directly. I think that is the best thing.

I called the family again yesterday and talked to them and mentioned about the news paper coverage. Actually they asked me about it first, and it seems they do not have any issues publishing the news.

May be I can call them again tomorrow to be very careful while answering the questions by the journalists - as the news paper people may be interested in getting some sensational news.

Even though we all posted the story and news / web links in many forums, send in email etc, there is not much response and I think nobody contacted the family yet. So they continue their lives in the same pathetic condition. But at least we all tried our best.

Do not know what else we can do in this.

One of my friends who is manager in ICICI Bank Blore, told me to contact http://www.giveindia.org He said they may be able to help, they are in touch with a lot of NGOs etc. Any ideas ? Heard of those agency ?

Waiting for your comments and suggestions.

[vaithy]

Din could u give the e-mail id of the reporter/editor of the chennai edition, perhaps we may request them to investigate the family's plight?
about the NGO websites that you provided i've checked with their audited accounts, and they are duly certified by the qualified Auditors firm. but my uneasyness is that the Audit firm is the one which support the Hospital group in the present case, some sort of client relationship exit with them..Let us wait for some other members sniff about it..

with regards,
vaithy

[din]

Sure, I will ask his email address when I call him.

[iNFiNiTE]

A very tragic real life incident.:(

I am very sorry to learn abt this and am extremely disappointed with myself that I didn't visited this thread earlier. Its just when i saw that this is a sticky, I thought that maybe its some serious post.

Its heartening to see that there are people like vaithy and din sir are still there who are trying selflessly to help a family in need. Though i am a student myself, but I would like to help too. After all a fellow human being, a techie at that, has passed away and his family needs all the help it can. At my part, I would try to spread awareness about the matter and will also talk to my friends and acquintances.

Regarding the role of hospital in the matter, its really shocking that some people will go to any extent for their personal profit.:mad: :( After reading many posts by members , I agree that helping the family is the primary concern for us. Using media to reach out to a large number of people will be the best possible action. Though mentioning the part of the hospital is really tricky as that gives credibility to the story or else it seems like millions of other help scams floating around. BUT this could have serious consequences for the family should the name of the hospital is tarnished and they use force to deal with the matter. One idea is to just mention the fact in passing and let the newspapers and media take its course by their investigations. They are normally great in such matters.

I hope that whatever help we can provide to the family would comfort them in the least as no matter what happens the parents have lost their only son due to cruel circumstances.:| May God help them.

I will be in touch and would like to help in any possible manner.

[din]

@iNFiNiTE

Thank you for going through the thread and helping us to spread the word. Everything matters. Really appreciate your help.

More Updates :

I could talk to the Chief of news bureau - Mathrubhumi Chennai. They seems to be helpful. I gave the full details of the family and the incident and asked them to please go there in person and verify and get all details. Also gave him link to the website. He told me they will verify it and will get back to me.

I really hope they help the family.

Also, made a phone call to Vinod and asked him about this, asked him to very careful talking to journalists.

Will keep you updated.

[din]

Update :

Ajith's mom called and told me the newspaper - Mathrubhumi published the news. But I couldn't see it yet as it is in Chennai edition. I am waiting for the newspaper copy (they promised me to send it today), should be able to upload the scanned copy next week.

The newspaper article will sure help us as we can show it our friends (can tell them the news is verified by a newspaper, so it is not scam etc), but another thing is, as Ajith's cousin was not present on the day when reporter came to their house, they couldn't talk much, so it seems there is not much about financial help in the article, but I will confirm it after I see it.

I am planning to contact my friend (he was my junior in school) whos a journalist of Hindu news paper. But after waiting for 3-4 days.

Another thing (as told by Ajith's cousin) I came to know that, the postmortem report has not been handed over to the family yet. I think it was carried out in a govt hospital (not the one in which Ajith was admitted), they are supposed to give it in 15 days I think, but the doc asking the family to come next day, come day after tomo like that. Not sure whether this is another way to get some $$$.

Anyway Vinod will be going to meet Doc tomo with a police man (as the Doc asked him they want to know who prepared FIR etc)

I will keep you updated friends.

[infra_red_dude]

Hmmm..article in a newspaper will surely help strengthen our online efforts to help the family :)

[vaithy]

The time body released from the hospital and the performing the postmortem and issuing of postmortem certificate is very low..every day so many cases come to Hospital, and the certificate is issued as a matter of course..What the doctor given to Ajith's cousin is not a postmortem certificate, but endorsement entry on a death report prepared by the Policeman..By the time newspaper leaked this report, perhaps the hospital will release the report..they have to explain the non mentioning of "missing body parts"
Thanks din for your tireless efforts Ajith's story is now coming to print form...Since I don't know malayalam, I'll be eagerly waiting for the translation of news paper article..

[smit]

Hello guys, since i was busy becasue of some exams lately , this thread not sticky right now so i guess they got the money & they have some hope of living their lives & few people now go to that hospital now i guess , so you guys didn't give up i guess that's great or is it ?

[din]

@smit

I requested the mods to make the thread sticky at least for one month, and I think it became a normal thread after that period.

Regarding the family - unfortunately - No financial / other major help were received. And to add it more, they didn't get the postmortem report yet (usually take 7-15 days max, but now it is more than 2 months). If they get that, they can try whether theres any chance for insurance (may take more time, still it may be of help).

Meantime, the news came in a news paper, but they gave more importance to not issuing the postmortem report, not much about financial help part.

We didn't give up the efforts yet. I sent an email to my friend whos working with the Hindu newspaper, he said they will sure look into this matter.

Will keep you updated.

[smit]

nah you are working hard, i was just pissed to find this thread unsticked & it went 3 pages back, wow , hmm..the only way i think it get this news to Aaj Tak or other news channel & we can't spare the hospital either, how many people must have been suffered because of them.. i guess this our darkest time , where we have no hope to help them but we will find a way, it may take time but we will.

[din]

Talked again to my friend whos working with the Hindu newspaper. He has some friends in other newspapers as well. He promised me he will sure help.

I know some of my post may sound like boasting (if anyone felt like that, my apologies), but I couldn't find any other way to keep this thread on first page of the forum.

[din]

Update again.

Thanks to Vaithy and all members who extended the support. The newspaper report didn't help much in the financial aspect, but it made a small difference !

Ajith's Dad called me (I was talking to him for the first time, I had a tough time understanding as it was mix of malayalam and tamil !). Seems he is slowly coming back to normal life. They thanked for putting the news in newspaper and told me that helped them getting the postmortem report which got delayed a lot. The authorities took it seriously once the news came in the news paper telling they are delaying the postmortem report.

Now they can try for insurance, not sure how it will go, whether they will receive anything, how much time it will take etc, but just another ray of hope..

Well, at least something is better than nothing.

Will keep you updated.

[T159]

good news, hope we can launch a single place to raise funds for needy persons

[infra_red_dude]

I haf hopes that the family will get justice. With people like Vaithy and Din taking up the issue seriously and others helping them financially (whatever we can), a small difference is indeed a significant difference :)

[dead]

It would be great if the digit magazine publishes how our forum members selflessly tried to help the family . More will then come to know about this who are not on the forum .