Has Sachin been the greatest batsman of the Modern Era?

[gagandeep]

Has Sachin been the greatest batsman of the Modern Cricket (post 1970)??

I want the views of the Forum members about this......

[The Conqueror]

Yeah he definately is the best cricketer of modern Cricket.
When he is not in form people judge his ability.Everyone cant be in form everytime.He is a good cricketer just he needs to manage the pressure which he has when he is in 90s.He is my all time favorite :)

[amrawtanshx]

At 34 and still da best
What more can I say ????
He truly deserves to be called the best........

[confused!!]

whatever sanjay manjrekar might say ... but he is the best...i don't know if i will be watching cricket with the same obsession when he retires...

[neelu09]

Without doubts he is the best......

[gagandeep]

Poll added......

[debsuvra]

I am also think that he is one of the greatest of all time and have some good performances over Lara to vie for the best one in the Modern era. :p

[desiibond]

He is the best. Not just in his era. He is the best in the history of cricket. Moreover, he is Mr. Gentleman of cricket. Whatever others say, he lets his bat talk. The support that he gives for youngsters is awesome. He is the master and God of Cricket.

[Vyasram]

definitely the best in the modern era.
arguably the second best ever after the big don

[rajesh_nk22]

I wouldn't say Best of Era.
He is good cricketer, given good performance in few games and good person too.

We can say one of the best cricketer in line with Lara, Border etc

[naveen_reloaded]

yeah sure .. no doubt.....

first of all they shouldnt compare sachin with broadman...

he played good... i didnt say the other way.. but with todays FAST bowlers and extra ordinary fielding... i dont hink broadman could have done it ....

ONLY SACHIN can do... !!!

sachin is the best at any time.. period!!

[nvidia]

Yes he is the greatest batsmen in the modern era...

[Arsenal_Gunners]

I am somewhat of a neutral but I can't disagree with that.He is a legend of the game and one of the few World Class players India ever produced.He has excellent behavior and temperament.I respect the the man.

[New]

I must say, Sachin -The King Of Cricket.Don't know whether I am going to watch cricket when he gets retired.:confused:

[ajayritik]

I wouldn't say Best of Era.
He is good cricketer, given good performance in few games and good person too.

We can say one of the best cricketer in line with Lara, Border etc

If you tell that Brian Lara was one of the best I can agree that but Allan border? Just coz Border had most number of runs in test matches not long back. I really don't rate Allan Border so special. But definitely he was a very good captain.

[naveen_reloaded]

I wouldn't say Best of Era.
He is good cricketer, given good performance in few games and good person too.

We can say one of the best cricketer in line with Lara, Border etc


LOL...
sachin is not among them...

HE IS THE ONE !!!!

[ajayritik]

LOL...
sachin is not among them...

HE IS THE ONE !!!!

Well Said Naveen! I endorse your opinion

[abinesh]

+1 mate ! ^^

[amd64_man2005]

no doubt about it...sachin rules big time..leave sachin out of this equation please...its like downgrading his class..he is above all comparison..its better to compare for the 2nd and 3rd spot maybe..imo

[aditya.shevade]

Definitely Not

[gagandeep]

Definitely Not
Justify your statement.....

[naveen_reloaded]

who and all consider him as another player should have heard commentatory in the past two matches... for each of his shot ... they praised him .. it was genuine.. and he played as a class player .. when he got that groin spasm...

first of all TO ALL... start comparing other players WITH reference to sachin...not the other way round

i hope he just stay there for the next world cup and win it for us.. his many years dream tooo....

but surely i can say one thing... ITS WE THE VIEWERS/FANS/PEOPLE who made him to this level..
whenever he played well.we encouraed him.. whenever he failed.. we hurted him .... to come back... i feel bad.. but thats wht made sachin a hero in the world of cricket...

[aditya.shevade]

Justify your statement.....

If you are considering the modern era, then define it. If you say the past 5 years, then the records and rankings speak for themselves.

Tendulkar Vs Ricky Ponting. See for yourself. In the 5 years from 2001-2006, Ponting scores 21 Test Centuries and about 5000 Test Runs. Only Lara comes close to him (4900) in terms of runs. Tendulkar in the meanwhile got 5 Centuries from almost as many matches (2-3 less then Ponting).

Secondly, ODI matches. Here Sachin was not too bad, but neither was Ponting. He finished third in the W/C top run getters (about 30 runs behind Jayavardhane, but with 2 innings less than Jayavardhane). Same goes for 2003 W/C, he may not have scored more than Tendulkar, but apposed to Sanchin, Ponting scored back to back 100s in Semi and Final of the W/C to win the title.

Again, if you check all the knocks, many of Pontings knocks have been match winning or match saving. Look at ashes 2005, 3rd test. Ponting saved it. Look what he did to NZ when they beat Aussies in Chappel Hadley series last year. Ponting gets up and scores 2 100s in 2 matches and seals the series.

After defeat of Ashes 2k5, Ponting scored runs (test) at the rate of 7 100s per 12 innings. And he even went on to win the man of the series with 197,60*,142,75*,41 and 45 as his top scores in the 9 innings.

I agree that in past 6 months, Sachin has been playing better than Ponting. But, 6 months do not construct modern era.

If you are considering the modern era to be the time when Sachin came in to Cricket (18 years ago) then there is no competitor for him in ODI matches even now. But in Tests, Ponting still beats him.

Check cricinfo records. And see for yourself. Ponting averages 90 in last innings in tests (4th innings). Meaning that he plays when it really matters. Sachin is nowhere close.

Aditya

[gagandeep]

Tendulkar Vs Ricky Ponting. See for yourself. In the 5 years from 2001-2006, Ponting scores 21 Test Centuries and about 5000 Test Runs. Only Lara comes close to him (4900) in terms of runs. Tendulkar in the meanwhile got 5 Centuries from almost as many matches (2-3 less then Ponting).
Between 2001-2006, Tendulkar scored 11 hundreds......4800 test runs

Secondly, ODI matches. Here Sachin was not too bad, but neither was Ponting. He finished third in the W/C top run getters (about 30 runs behind Jayavardhane, but with 2 innings less than Jayavardhane). Same goes for 2003 W/C, he may not have scored more than Tendulkar, but apposed to Sanchin, Ponting scored back to back 100s in Semi and Final of the W/C to win the title.
Between 2000-2006, in ODI matches
Tendulkar scored 6000 runs in 145 matches with an average of 46 and 16 centuries.
Ponting scored 5600 runs in 156 matches with an average of 42 and 13 centuries.

Ponting averages 90 in last innings in tests (4th innings). Meaning that he plays when it really matters. Sachin is nowhere close.

I think you are wrong friend. He averages just 55. Also, if here remains not-out in the last (4th) innings as others have already scored their runs and he just needs to wind up the game, this is definitely going to increase his average. I don't consider this as an argument.

Did Ponting had to face Australian bowling attack????? Definitely NO...

Ponting just has an average of 12 in Tests in India....Can you justify this?
Seems he can't play in all the parts of the world.....

===============
As far as ODIs are concerned, Ponting doesn't get near to Tendulkar.....
Don't forget, Sachin is an openeing batsman, so he has a very less chance of being playing till the end. Ponting mainly comes to play at no. 3/4, so he has a greater chance of playing till the end. Still he lacks behind in Average of ODIs. Compare the strike rate, Sachin = 85+ and Ponting = just 80

While batting 2nd in ODIs (or chasing), Ponting has just scored 36.6% of his total runs with just 6 centuries. And Sachin has scored 48.1% of his total runs with 16 tons. Justify this......

[sachin_kothari]

Great work there Gagandeep but I would say Sachin is one of the great batsmen and not greatest because though he has records that cricketers only dream of, that has made little impact to the outcome of matches.

[gagandeep]

Great work there Gagandeep but I would say Sachin is one of the great batsmen and not greatest because though he has records that cricketers only dream of, that has made little impact to the outcome of matches.

For making a complete impact to the outcome of a match, a bastman also needs a little bit of support from the player at the other end which Ponting has always got whenever he has played.

There are many instances where Sachin has been the lone fighter and all the other teammates have fallen like anything.

He has made 48.1% of the runs (almost equal to what he has made while batting first) while chasing, yet people say that he can't play in pressure.

Even if his centuries haven't contributed to a victory, that means he has played in the pressure but other teammates were not able to support him. Where is his fault?

Imagine a batsman on 110* and there is only one wicket to loose. The other batsman gets out and the innings is over and the team looses the match. Is there any fault of the guy who is at 110*?

[techy_geek]

Sachin is the best...!!! 8)

[naveen_reloaded]

Between 2001-2006, Tendulkar scored 11 hundreds......4800 test runs


Between 2000-2006, in ODI matches
Tendulkar scored 6000 runs in 145 matches with an average of 46 and 16 centuries.
Ponting scored 5600 runs in 156 matches with an average of 42 and 13 centuries.


I think you are wrong friend. He averages just 55. Also, if here remains not-out in the last (4th) innings as others have already scored their runs and he just needs to wind up the game, this is definitely going to increase his average. I don't consider this as an argument.

Did Ponting had to face Australian bowling attack????? Definitely NO...

Ponting just has an average of 12 in Tests in India....Can you justify this?
Seems he can't play in all the parts of the world.....

===============
As far as ODIs are concerned, Ponting doesn't get near to Tendulkar.....
Don't forget, Sachin is an openeing batsman, so he has a very less chance of being playing till the end. Ponting mainly comes to play at no. 3/4, so he has a greater chance of playing till the end. Still he lacks behind in Average of ODIs. Compare the strike rate, Sachin = 85+ and Ponting = just 80

While batting 2nd in ODIs (or chasing), Ponting has just scored 36.6% of his total runs with just 6 centuries. And Sachin has scored 48.1% of his total runs with 16 tons. Justify this......


EXCELLENT BROTHER...
EXCELLENT....!!!!

BRAVO !!!

[sachin_kothari]

@Gagandeep
I know its not Sachin's fault India lose. I also agree that he did not get the required support from his team mates when required. Most of the time, when he got out the team use to fall like 9 pins.

What i meant by 'little impact on outcome of matches' is that no matter if Sachin plays or not the team's winning percentage is near about same. Sachin's presence is more of a concern to the opposition. But the indian team fails to use it to their advantage.

And I am a great fan of his. I still watch matches only till he is playing, once he is out i switch my TV off only switching it on to watch the final few overs.

[aditya.shevade]

Between 2001-2006, Tendulkar scored 11 hundreds......4800 test runs

Sorry on that mate. I read the report in times of india (just after ashes 2006-07) that Tendulkar had 5 100s.


Between 2000-2006, in ODI matches
Tendulkar scored 6000 runs in 145 matches with an average of 46 and 16 centuries.
Ponting scored 5600 runs in 156 matches with an average of 42 and 13 centuries.

I said, in ODI's Sachin is the best.


I think you are wrong friend. He averages just 55. Also, if here remains not-out in the last (4th) innings as others have already scored their runs and he just needs to wind up the game, this is definitely going to increase his average. I don't consider this as an argument.

You are wrong in this. The 4th innings average I am talking about is when Aussies won the tests gatting 4th or drew the matches batting 4th. THEN Ponting averages 90. And that is what I said, Aussies win only if hey plays. Meaning that he is a match winner. Again, this is about tests, so Sachin comes 4th. Argument invalid that he opens.

Did Ponting had to face Australian bowling attack????? Definitely NO...

Not Ponting's fault.

Ponting just has an average of 12 in Tests in India....Can you justify this?
Seems he can't play in all the parts of the world.....

Sad but true... He has nowhere been close to his best in India.... but that will change soon.... cause he is hurt because of the defeat..... :D

===============
As far as ODIs are concerned, Ponting doesn't get near to Tendulkar.....
Don't forget, Sachin is an openeing batsman, so he has a very less chance of being playing till the end. Ponting mainly comes to play at no. 3/4, so he has a greater chance of playing till the end. Still he lacks behind in Average of ODIs. Compare the strike rate, Sachin = 85+ and Ponting = just 80

While batting 2nd in ODIs (or chasing), Ponting has just scored 36.6% of his total runs with just 6 centuries. And Sachin has scored 48.1% of his total runs with 16 tons. Justify this......

I already said that Sachin is the best in ODIs. BUT, when it comes to playing match winning innings and tests matches and saving tests. Ponting is far better than Sachin. Look at the ICC rankings for god's sake. I am not making things up here.

I agree that Sachin is the best in ODIs BUT he is not the best batsman considering all the situations and all the formats of the game.

Again. I don't want to start an argument... All the cricket experts recently agreed on one fact. That even though Ponting is the best batsman today, he does not behave like one. So even they agree that he is the best (screw his behaviour).... I am opting out...

[eggman]

Sad but true... He has nowhere been close to his best in India.... but that will change soon.... cause he is hurt because of the defeat..... :D


Every argument you gave was allright.http://gigasmilies.googlepages.com/18a.gif But what's this ...You are actually defending for bad performance and hoping for Ponting to play well in future....Its a Job of Australian not an Indian...Too bad:(

[naveen_reloaded]

^^^+1

[gagandeep]

You are wrong in this. The 4th innings average I am talking about is when Aussies won the tests gatting 4th or drew the matches batting 4th. THEN Ponting averages 90. And that is what I said, Aussies win only if hey plays. Meaning that he is a match winner. Again, this is about tests, so Sachin comes 4th. Argument invalid that he opens.

That means when Australia lags behind (starts to loose) in the 4th innings, he doesn't play. Because only when he plays Australia wins..............??????

Sachin has got 12 hundreds in matches/lost or tied in ODIs while Ponting has just got 4. Who played in pressure?......**ck the people who say Sachin can't play in pressure when he had tried completely to win the match by scoring hundreds.......

Ponting has just got 3+5=8 hundreds in Lost & Drawn Test matches while Sachin has got 9+17=26 of his Test hundreds in Lost & Drawn matches. Did he play in pressure? I think yes, he scored hundred in the matches we could have lost and had lost.........Justify this

Sachin has scored the most runs against Australia than against any other country in Tests and ODIs.....

Note: I am one of the very few people in India who hate cricket.

[aditya.shevade]

OK.... I said I was going out... But... .What to do. :D

Yeah eggman. That was a desperate plea from Ponting's fan (me). He played pathetic. I agree. I am just hoping that he will play better next time. That is why I put a smiley after that comment of mine. :D

@gagnadeep. OK dude. What you said is correct. I am talking about the matches won by Australia here. Not drawn/lost matches. In fact what you have written above suggests that efforts of Sachin have not been good enough to win matches. Even if he scores 100. And that Ponting has had more wins when he scored a 100.

But we have to consider the fact that up until last year, Indian team (as a whole) was pathetic in both forms as compared to Australia. So these comments of Sachin Vs Ponting are invalid. You will always say that Ponting had support of other players and Sachin did not have any. But that my friend is not Sachin's mistake or Ponting's. So... too bad....

And for your information, even I am starting to hate cricket now. I never really loved it. But with IPL and all the behaviour controversies..... I have lost my interest. (Another reason would be that I have a lot of work/study to do in the college :D)

[gagandeep]

@gagnadeep. OK dude. What you said is correct. I am talking about the matches won by Australia here. Not drawn/lost matches. In fact what you have written above suggests that efforts of Sachin have not been good enough to win matches. Even if he scores 100. And that Ponting has had more wins when he scored a 100.

But we have to consider the fact that up until last year, Indian team (as a whole) was pathetic in both forms as compared to Australia. So these comments of Sachin Vs Ponting are invalid. You will always say that Ponting had support of other players and Sachin did not have any. But that my friend is not Sachin's mistake or Ponting's. So... too bad....

Did I say that it is Sachin's mistake or Ponting's???

I mean to say, this has just been a disadvantage to Sachin.

[aditya.shevade]

^^ Agreed. It has been Sachin's disadvantage. There were many such players who had disadvantages. The worst was Tatenda Taibu.... Poor kid...

[techy_geek]

^^ u donot know anything...!!!

Sachin is the best...!!! http://gigasmilies.googlepages.com/32a.gif

[legolas]

^^ Agreed. It has been Sachin's disadvantage.
Tendulkar Vs Warne Score: 100
Ponting Vs Harbhajan Score: 0
Sachin "warne" Tendulkar

Tendulkar doesn't play in pressure is bullsiht.
I have that much to tell that I cant even organize. No point arguing in comparing Sachin to the ugly spineless drunkard.

[rajesh_nk22]

If you tell that Brian Lara was one of the best I can agree that but Allan border? Just coz Border had most number of runs in test matches not long back. I really don't rate Allan Border so special. But definitely he was a very good captain.

Cricket is a team work, and not individual records, person who plays when his team needs him MOST is the best player, like in army, we never give medals to person who has good track records, is given to person who shoulders his responsibility when his country needs him most and does his best inspite of cicumstances, this is where tendulakar fails, He is a loser whenever India needs him to play.

This is why I say I dont consider him GREATEST BATSMAN

[casanova]

Sachin is the best batsman in cricket history. He creates strokes. His latest stroke being the one he hits late above the slip fielders. Just imagine this stoke, it creates the need to play with 12 players coz no team would play with a slip as well a deep thirdman (i guess thats we call the player on the boundary line behind the first slip)

Also when team performs and Sachin doesn't, and if team looses point is raised that Sachin doesn't play but if Sachin hits a century and team doesn't do their share, then Sachin is not a match winner.

Don't compare cricket with army. Because the track record you are referring to is a battle in cricket. And I wonder why people forget that when Tendulkar performs the best, team doesn't need it but incase if he would have not scored there, then the team would have needed him

[solomon_paulraj]

Sachin is a living legend of cricket.
He is a must read living book on cricket.

Tendulkar is beyond comparision.

(it was only due to Tendulkar that people like me started loving cricket)

[ajayritik]

Cricket is a team work, and not individual records, person who plays when his team needs him MOST is the best player, like in army, we never give medals to person who has good track records, is given to person who shoulders his responsibility when his country needs him most and does his best inspite of cicumstances, this is where tendulakar fails, He is a loser whenever India needs him to play.

This is why I say I dont consider him GREATEST BATSMAN

It's fine if you don't consider him as a great batsman but what is this thing about comparing with army etc. What do you mean bu army doesnt give medals to person who has good track records? Are you referring to army personnel who participate in the track field games like running marathon? I agree that Sachin may have failed in some important matches but still it doesnt mean that Ricky Ponting is a greater batsman than him. A great batsman is he who plays well against all type of bowlers in all conditions. Not like Ricky Ponting who is miserable against Harbhajan Singh!

[gagandeep]

Have a look at these and you'll come to know what pressure is. Sachin's hundreds which got vain......

1. 137 off 137 (Strike rate 100) balls Vs SriLanka at Delhi in 1996 World Cup.
India scored 271/3 in 50 overs. The only other 50 score was from Azhar. SL made 272 in 48.4 overs. Manoj Prabhakar had 4-0-47-0. He also opened in the innings and scored 7 of 36 balls.

2 . 100 of 111 Balls Vs Pak in Singapore- Apr 96.
India 226 all out in 47.1 overs, When Sachin was out score was 186/4 (We cant blame because next 3 are match fixtures) . Pak had a reduced target of 187 from 33 overs.

3. 110 of 138 Balls (Slower but...) vs Sri Lanka In Colombo - Aug 96.
Again India 226 for 5 in 50 overs, Only other 50 score from Azhar (58 of 99 balls !!!). Sachin has also bowled 6-0-29-1 , the second most economical bowler and the only wicket taker (SL were 230/1 in 44.2 ) of the match next to Srinath. 7 bowlers were used by Azhar.

4. 143 of 131 Balls (!!!) Vs Aus at Sharjah, Apr 1998.
This was chasing under lights. The qualifying match before the final. The whole
world knows about this match. Still one interesting point, when Sachin was out India were 242 at 5 at 43 overs. Target was 276 in 46. Still India finished at 250/5 scoring just 8 of the next 3 overs. Great performance by Laxman and Kanithkar indeed.

5. 101 of 140 Balls against SL at Sharjah in Oct 2000.
Indian score was 224/8 in 50 overs. (No other 50 score). SL got 225/5 in 43.5; Sachin also bowled 5-0-22-0, better economy rate than everyone except Srinath.

6. 146 of 153 Balls against Zimbabwe at Jodhpur - Dec 2000
India made 283/8 in 50 overs. Sachin was the last man to be dismissed, score was 235/8 at 46.3 overs when he was out. Agarkar and Zaheer propelled India to 283 in the last 3.3 overs. When Sachin has scored 146 of 235 in 46.3 overs, you can guess what the other 8 great batsmen were doing against the World class Zimbabwe attack. Second Highest scorer was Zaheer Khan with 32.Zim got 284/9 in 49.5 overs.

7. 101 of 129 Balls Vs SA at Johannesburg - Oct 2001
India got 279/5 in 50, Ganguly made 127 of 126 balls. When Ganguly got out, the score was 193-1 in 35.2 overs. Sachin was the last man to get out at 263. SA got 280 in 48.4 overs. Sachin bowled 9-0-51-0, second best in economy rate next only to Agarkar (10-0-45-1)

8. 141 of 135 balls Vs Pak at Rawalpindi, March 2004
India was chasing 329 and was 317 all out in 48.4 overs, 8 balls to spare. No other batsman made even a 50 (when chasing 300 ) and when Sachin was out, India were 245-4 in 38.4 overs. They needed 85 from 68 balls with 6 wickets in hand.

9. 123 of 130 Balls vs Pak at Ahmedabad, April 2005.
India made 315/6 in 48 overs (48 over match), again no other 50 score. Second highest was Dhoni 47 of 64 balls, (third highest was extras - 39). Pak made 319 in 48 overs. The three quicks (Balaji, Nehra and Khan went for 188 runs from 26 overs between them taking only 2 wickets). Sachin bowled 6-0-36-1. No Harbhajan and no Kumble.

10. 100 of 113 Balls Vs Pak at Peshawar, Feb-2006.
India were 328 all out in 49.4 overs. Pathan and Dhoni got 60 each. When Sachin was out when India were 305-5 in 45 overs. Managed only 23 in the last 5 overs.Pak scored 311/7 in 47 overs and won by D/L method. Could have been anybody's game. Sachin did not bowl.

11. 141* of 148 balls vs WI at Malaysia.
India made 309 /5 in 50 overs. Sachin was not out. Pathan was the only other 50 scorer. WI made 141/2 in 20 overs and won by D/L method. Again could have been anybody's game.

A little bit of support from other teammates would have made these innings called as 'match-winning'.

[eggman]

^^Wah!!!
Great great post. Real eye-opener!!!

5 Start post!!!Great work.
You should work in some stats company!!

[confused!!]

You have made me your fan Gagandeep..Absolute brilliant work..hats off

[aditya.shevade]

That has always been the case. Sachin scoring runs and getting no support. Sad thing.... No more comments, or war will emerge :D

[harryneopotter]

6. 146 of 153 Balls against Zimbabwe at Jodhpur - Dec 2000 (Game of Dougla Mariliar)[/B]
India made 283/8 in 50 overs. Sachin was the last man to be dismissed, score was 235/8 at 46.3 overs when he was out. Agarkar and Zaheer propelled India to 283 in the last 3.3 overs. When Sachin has scored 146 of 235 in 46.3 overs, you can guess what the other 8 great batsmen were doing against the World class Zimbabwe attack. Second Highest scorer was Zaheer Khan with 32.Zim got 284/9 in 49.5 overs.
[/b][/size]

if i rem correctly ..second highest scorer from india was Agarkar with a 19-ball-45 sumthing ........ !!!!!!!!!!!!

[gagandeep]

^^Wah!!!
Great great post. Real eye-opener!!!

5 Start post!!!Great work.
You should work in some stats company!!

You have made me your fan Gagandeep..Absolute brilliant work..hats off
Thanx for the appreciation, but I want to do IIT...:p

That has always been the case. Sachin scoring runs and getting no support. Sad thing.... No more comments, or war will emerge :D
Let the war begin....I'm ready. Thats why I posted here in Fight Club......:rolleyes:

if i rem correctly ..second highest scorer from india was Agarkar with a 19-ball-45 sumthing ........ !!!!!!!!!!!!
Nope, check this out: http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/64682.html. Also, Sachin was the guy who took the wicket of Andy Flower (77) who was then judged as the Man of the Match....

[harryneopotter]

i got confused when u said "doug marriliar" ... coz in the Doug Marriliar match .. agarkar scored 45 of 19 balls .... and Marriliar didnt played the match that u r talking bout. Anyways ... i appreciate ur effort .... and IMO Sachin IS the Greatest Batsman, watever the world say ............

[gagandeep]

^^ Sorry my mistake. Post Edited

Actually I was reminded of a match in which he had made Zimbabwe win against India in 2002.
This: http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/64753.html Douglas Marillier drived Zimbabwe to a really sensational win with a 24 ball 56**

[Hrithan2020]

For me,Sachin is the best odi player ever and second next to Bradman overall.

[pannaguma]

he is the most over-rated person in the world.........

[gagandeep]

he is the most over-rated person in the world.........
Prove this.....

And the credit of my Post #43 goes to my cousin.

[gaurav_indian]

he is the most over-rated person in the world.........

acha? toh bhai jaake jara 25000 international runs banao.
Baat karte hai.:mad:

[pannaguma]

^^WTF man, he has been playing since the age of 16. what else do you expect??? look at his average it comparable to others. [150test matches + 410odis]*good average =>> naturally a ton of runs

what i mean to say, is that he has only a good average not outstanding average, obviously having played for soo long, he naturally has broken all "run" records.........

And to prove he is over-rated:
1>i would rather rate sourav ganguly higher than him as a player,even if SG is a slightly lesser batsman, his leadership skills and determination make him much more valuable...........
2>if tendulkar is indeed the greatest batsman, why didnt he score a match winning knock in the 2003 WC final (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/65286.html).[after all it was his only WC final]

only thing that comes to mind is Ricky Ponting demolishing India........

according to me "greatest" is a heavy term, and most ppl are tossing it with little thought..........

[gagandeep]

^^WTF man, he has been playing since the age of 16. what else do you expect??? look at his average it comparable to others. [150test matches + 410odis]*good average =>> naturally a ton of runs

what i mean to say, is that he has only a good average not outstanding average, obviously having played for soo long, he naturally has broken all "run" records.........
After playing too much of matches, he doesn't have a GOOD average.......He has an excellent average. Even better than Dhonis & Yuvrajs you can name.


And to prove he is over-rated:
1>i would rather rate sourav ganguly higher than him as a player,even if SG is a slightly lesser batsman, his leadership skills and determination make him much more valuable...........
2>if tendulkar is indeed the greatest batsman, why didnt he score a match winning knock in the 2003 WC final (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/65286.html).[after all it was his only WC final]

only thing that comes to mind is Ricky Ponting demolishing India........

1) Watch this completely............http://youtube.com/watch?v=i5Fsnv6wHJo When I've said completely, you'll have to watch it completely. Especially when the discussion on WC 2003 final comes. (After 5:30..)

And then about leadership......Do watch what Harsha says on 7:20. "In every organisation, we've designated leaders and people who play the role of a leader.......

2) Do you expect him to perform in every match?? You've forgotten that he had the most contribution in getting India to the WC 2003 finals.

[gaurav_indian]

^^WTF man, he has been playing since the age of 16. what else do you expect??? look at his average it comparable to others. [150test matches + 410odis]*good average =>> naturally a ton of runs

what i mean to say, is that he has only a good average not outstanding average, obviously having played for soo long, he naturally has broken all "run" records.........

And to prove he is over-rated:
1>i would rather rate sourav ganguly higher than him as a player,even if SG is a slightly lesser batsman, his leadership skills and determination make him much more valuable...........
2>if tendulkar is indeed the greatest batsman, why didnt he score a match winning knock in the 2003 WC final (http://content-ind.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/65286.html).[after all it was his only WC final]

only thing that comes to mind is Ricky Ponting demolishing India........
wtf kid?
Are you out of your mind or what?Playing since 16 isnt that an achievement?Afridi do u know him?Hasan Raza these guys also made their debut at the same age.Whats their achievement?It takes a lot to continuously play at the higher level and maintaining the 50 plus average.
I can only laugh at those who always try to question sachin's commitment.And he always proves them wrong.:p

And about 2003 world cup.Wow sachin is a average player still you want him to win the finals single handedly?Double standard?This is the greatness of sachin.He has set his standards so high that everyone wants him to perform in every match.

[gagandeep]

@pannaguma: I've made some edits to my post.......So better reload and read them again.

[pannaguma]

wtf kid? Are you out of your mind or what?minding ur tongue will go a long way in avoiding you from getting shafted. even a child can start a flame war. WTF is ur problem, dont u understand what a difference of opinion means?? I have clearly stated my point of view and explained it .......

I can only laugh at those who always try to question sachin's commitment.where the hell did i post anything about his commitment? only thing i said was:he is definitely not the greatest .....

[gagandeep]

minding ur tongue will go a long way in avoiding you from getting shafted. even a child can start a flame war. WTF is ur problem, dont u understand what a difference of opinion means?? I have clearly stated my point of view and explained it .......

where the hell did i post anything about his commitment? only thing i said was:he is definitely not the greatest .....
And yeah, how the hell is Gaurav starting a flame war??

I need your comments on what I posted above. Reply me on that after seeing the video completely.

[gaurav_indian]

minding ur tongue will go a long way in avoiding you from getting shafted. even a child can start a flame war. WTF is ur problem, dont u understand what a difference of opinion means?? I have clearly stated my point of view and explained it .......

where the hell did i post anything about his commitment? only thing i said was:he is definitely not the greatest .....
tongue toh abhi maine apni use ki nahi hai.Karunga toh pata chalega.I was just replying to you in the same manner in which you did.So you better mind your own language,And rather than talking some BS without any proves and facts.It will be better if you back your opinions(which are different) with facts.Waiting for the facts.

Even shane warne has rated him the best batsman.:p

And mr plz carefully read post number 43 of this thread.:p

[gagandeep]

Even shane warne has rated him the best batsman.:p
Only Shane Warne???

Even Bradman, Brian Lara, Brett Lee have also said him to be the best batsman.

And yeah, that Ponting also once said that "Sachin is the toughest opponent against whom he has played......."

[gaurav_indian]

Only Shane Warne???

Even Bradman, Brian Lara, Brett Lee have also said him to be the best batsman.

And yeah, that Ponting also once said that "Sachin is the toughest opponent against whom he has played......."

hehe the list is endless Akram,Akhtar,Steve Waugh,.............................

But i would like to know the name of even and i repeat even 1 player who has the same thoughts like pannaguma.Any one?

[pannaguma]

And yeah, how the hell is Gaurav starting a flame war??well i guess you dont mind, me calling you a kid, who is out of his mind just cause you dont agree with my views?? Eh??:mad:

I need your comments on what I posted above. Reply me on that after seeing the video completely.will watch video in NU period. cant afford 30-40MB in non NU period.......:D

[gagandeep]

well i guess you dont mind, me calling you a kid, who is out of his mind just cause you dont agree with my views?? Eh??:mad:

Because I'm really a 14-year old kid......:rolleyes:

[gaurav_indian]

Because I'm really a 14-year old kid......:rolleyes:

He doesnt know that.A kid can back his claims with facts and proofs.:D

[pannaguma]

..........And rather than talking some BS without any proves and facts.is this a maths theorem to be proved?:confused: IMO ganguly>tendulkar. ganguly's comeback, and spirited performance in the last 15 months says a lot.

[gagandeep]

is this a maths theorem to be proved?:confused: IMO ganguly>tendulkar. ganguly's comeback, and spirited performance in the last 15 months says a lot.
Even I'm a Ganguly, Dravid fan and I oppose the insane promotion of young cricketers.

But you talked about leadership, thats why I posted that video. I admit Ganguly's captainship has been extremely good, probably many times better than Sachin's captainship but "There are officially assigned leaders but there are other persons too who actually work as leaders." And actually there is a lot of difference between LEADERSHIP and CAPTAINSHIP. Though I'm not saying that Sachin has better leadership skills than Ganguly, may be he has but he doesn't have anything to prove it.

Thats why I posted that video. Harsha has given an incidence of Sachin's leadership in WC2003 final before the Indian innings (after the enormous total by Australia) in the pavillion and you ought to watch Harsha telling that.

[legolas]

ganguly > tendulkar is like in binary world, 0 > 1 :D
both are good players... but ganguly is not even close in the race compared to tendulkar. what do you need to consider a batsman greatest first? tell the criteria, then may be we can convince with our arguments.

[amd64_man2005]

ooh..cummon..now dont start flame wars..both ganguly and tendulkar are indians and everyone has a right to support either of them..i for a change support ganguly..if evryun supports tendu then where will the other players go.. :D

let me state some facts here..now please dont firing on me coz its just my opinion..tendulkar is was and always be the greatest player of all times..

1)ganguly played more than a 100 matches less than tendu..and is 4000 runs less than him...
2)india was under ganguly for a period of 5 years..during which ganguly's form dropped considerably..i dont take it as an excuse for his bad perfrmance but then..he gave his heart to the team and led india to many groundbreaking victories when noun in the indian team was ready to hold the mantle in their hands..

3)ganguly was the fastest to score 5000,6000,7000,8000 and 11000 runs...

4)he is miles ahead of any indian left hander ever...

5)sachin(sum peaple may not agree) has somehow been bnefited by being a mumbaikar..saurav being a bong was left out of the indian team since his debut in 1992 after which he came back strongly in 1996

6)the rahul dravid we see now..is sumwhat(i mean very slighly) a product of dada's affection and confidence towards him..when he was dropped dada took him back in as a wicketkeeper and persisted till he was back in form..

7)his ouster from the indian cricket team was pure politics..he was surely going thru a lean patch..but there was no one in the indian fraternity yet who could replace him...his comeback.like the experts say is fit to put in the history books of growing students who need inspiration and grow a never-say-die attitude.

8)Whenever dravid plays badly noun questions his place in the team..but even after being the 2nd highest run getter in tests and odis..a couple of failures makes his stay in the team unpredictable..his recent endeavour at the kanpur test saw..the mastermind behind his ouster..mr dhobi..sorry dhoni..tongue in cheek..

best of luck for ipl to all the states..cheers

[anirudhasarawgi]

Sachin has played 5 World Cups and hasnt won any so how can we call him the greatest batsman. Whereas, Ponting has played 4 World Cups and has won 3.

Whats the use of 16000 runs when he cant win any world cup in 19 long years ?

[legolas]

@amd64_ i accept to every bit of what you had to tell about ganguly. personally its for the same reason, its not wise or illogical to compare and contrast two people. Ganguly's captaincy was one of the best India has seen where as Tendulkar has failed miserably when he had to face the press/deal with the critics/ perform and many many other stuffs that put enormous pressure.. I don't see why Ganguly is not one of the best. But, Tendulkar, he has the brains and balls devoted to this game ... (ok, may be not balls :D ) his shot invention, his placement, his spin (we dont see much today) are exquisite and inexplicable. blah blah blah... :)

@anirudhasarawgi, cricket has 11 players. what does winning a world cup have to do with being one of the greatest batsman? If we came till finals, then its only because of the captain or what? we have been in finals many a times and have proved to be the second best team. your argument is just another thoughtless whisper.
Pardon me, what do you do with venkatapathy raju and venkatesh prasad, pares mhambrey, abey kuruvilla bowling attacks?? when mcdermott (old), mcgrath, fleming, gillespie, lee are attacking on the other end?? If any, you should blame the selection committee for choosing such stupid incapable teams. Quit bt!ching 1 player because he dint play in the world cups.. ufff... what do you guys want to get pleased!! :D

[gaurav_indian]

Sachin has played 5 World Cups and hasnt won any so how can we call him the greatest batsman. Whereas, Ponting has played 4 World Cups and has won 3.

Whats the use of 16000 runs when he cant win any world cup in 19 long years ?

bhai tennis ka world cup nahi hai :mad: jo akele akele jeet jaaye :mad:
Ponting didnt win the world cup alone it was by his team.:p

[gagandeep]

@pannaguma

Did you see that video??

[anirudhasarawgi]

@legolas, get your facts correct - pares mhambrey and abey kuruvilla havent played any world cup.

venkatapathy raju and venkatesh prasad have good bowling stats

venkatapathy raju
Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10

Tests
28 51 7602 2857 93 6/12 11/125 30.72 2.25 81.7 1 5 1

ODIs
53 52 2770 2014 63 4/46 4/46 31.96 4.36 43.9 2 0 0

venkatesh prasad
Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10

Tests
33 58 7041 3360 96 6/33 10/153 35.00 2.86 73.3 1 7 1

ODIs
161 160 8129 6332 196 5/27 5/27 32.30 4.67 41.4 3 1 0

[gagandeep]

@aniruadhasarawgi

I would like you to go through this thread right from Post #1...........

[King-Of-Hearts]

Yes he is the best... :)

[ajayritik]

@aniruadhasarawgi
Let me just refresh you with some information regarding India playing World Cups. In the 1992 World Cup in Australia, India wasn't a team that great. It lost to Australia I think by 2-3 runs and there were some great players like Srinath, Venkatapathy Raju and Subroto Banerjee who messed up that match. I think Venkatapathy Raju is your favorite. Even he messed up that much.
In 1996 it was such a great decision of winning the toss and electing to field in semi finals against Sri Lanka which was also one of the reasons for India's exit. Not to forget after Sachin was dismissed I think he was stumped in that match the whole team crumbled. It was not like he didn't play well when it was required. If I'm not mistaken he was the highest scorer in that edition of world cup. And maybe you forgot about one bowler called Manoj Prabhakar who was smashed around the park by Jayasuriya. Please dont post Manoj Prabhakar's stats here. We know how great player he was.

In 1999 I would admit his form was little patchy and also his father expired middle of the world cup. In a crucial match against Zimbabwe your favorite player Venkatesh Prasad gave away some vital runs and I better not talk about his batting exploits in that match. Also to an extent was responsible Srinath's batting and I think Nayan Mongia.

In 2003 he was the highest scorer and got man of the series and again I want to admit that he didn't play well in the final but he played well in the other matches. How can we forget how Zaheer Khan bowled in that match? I think Indian team was scared to bat first winning the toss and hence elected to field first. What a world class bowling was it! I can't express in words. Everyone was hit around the park. Unfortunately your favorite players Venkatesh Prasad and Venkatapathy Raju retired by that time otherwise the score would have been easily 400.

In 2007 I admit again that Sachin's batting wasnt that good. But we got only three matches out of which we lost two. Again I don't understand why the great wall of Bangalore elected to bat first on that kind of track against Bangladesh.

[anirudhasarawgi]

Ok he is among the top three greatest batsman.

Will he play world cup 2011 at the age of 38 ?

[confused!!]

ganguly > tendulkar is like in binary world, 0 > 1 :D
both are good players... but ganguly is not even close in the race compared to tendulkar. what do you need to consider a batsman greatest first? tell the criteria, then may be we can convince with our arguments.

Even Ganguly himself said in an interview that he will always be second best to Tendulkar

[jamifahad]

R u kidding me? Sachin Tendulkar IS THE BEST..for himself. Look at his personal record and look at his match-winning scores. Then it will strike you that he has played for HIMSELF. HE HAS NEVER EVER PLAYED FOR INDIA..but HIMSELF.thats the bottom line.

[gaurav_indian]

R u kidding me? Sachin Tendulkar IS THE BEST..for himself. Look at his personal record and look at his match-winning scores. Then it will strike you that he has played for HIMSELF. HE HAS NEVER EVER PLAYED FOR INDIA..but HIMSELF.thats the bottom line.

ek aur aa gaya :rolleyes:

[gagandeep]

R u kidding me? Sachin Tendulkar IS THE BEST..for himself. Look at his personal record and look at his match-winning scores. Then it will strike you that he has played for HIMSELF. HE HAS NEVER EVER PLAYED FOR INDIA..but HIMSELF.thats the bottom line.
R u kidding me??....:D

First read the whole thread and then say.......

Match winning scores....

We also need a little bit of support of other team members to win a match which I think he hasn't got......

[legolas]

@jamifahad, so what else does he have to do?? he has to play for everyone, is that it?

[confused!!]

Jamifahad ji pagla gaye lagta hai

[harryneopotter]

hadd hai yaar ... kamaal ho gaya ...itni si baat pe itna bada thread bana dala ....arre dear digitians..Sachin is SACHIN, The Master and its as correct ,to say Sachin is Best, as to say that "Sun Rises in east and sets in West". No need for this long thread just to argue over an universal fact .

[gaurav_indian]

hadd hai yaar ... kamaal ho gaya ...itni si baat pe itna bada thread bana dala ....arre dear digitians..Sachin is SACHIN, The Master and its as correct ,to say Sachin is Best, as to say that "Sun Rises in east and sets in West". No need for this long thread just to argue over an universal fact .

abey chalne de time pass ho raha hai :p

[confused!!]

^^aur anti-sachin logon ki khinchai karke maza bhi aa raha hai..i m loving it

[gagandeep]

^^aur anti-sachin logon ki khinchai karke maza bhi aa raha hai..i m loving it
abh mast Anti-Sachin log nahi aa rahe.....:(
mujhe toh aditya.shevade ki khichayi karne mien mazaa aaya tha....:p :p :p

..i m loving it
McDonalds ka burger.........:lol:

[T159]

Burger is for hanging by the belly :D

[smit]

Since i didn't wanted to make another thread on this topic , i will be posting here

Sachin is the greatest cricketer & he will be one for many years to come , anyway the reason he is a great cricketer because i didn't play cricket , if i had played cricket i would have beaten him hands down by now :D:D

[gagandeep]

R u kidding me? Sachin Tendulkar IS THE BEST..for himself. Look at his personal record and look at his match-winning scores. Then it will strike you that he has played for HIMSELF. HE HAS NEVER EVER PLAYED FOR INDIA..but HIMSELF.thats the bottom line.
Anyways dude, if someone plays atleast for himself and does something big.....He has indirectly played for his country.......;)