Mac OS X Leopard “better and faster than Vista”

[aryayush]

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8100/macosxindexhero20071026au5.png (http://www.apple.com/macosx/)

Mac OS X Leopard “better and faster than Vista” (http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20071025/leopard-faster-easier-than-vista/)
“I’ve been testing Leopard,” reports Walter Mossberg (Wall Street Journal) and, “I believe it builds on Apple’s quality advantage over Windows. In my view, Leopard is better and faster than Vista, with a set of new features that make Macs even easier to use.” Among the more than 300 new features available in Leopard, Mossberg singles out as “marquee features” Time Machine, Cover Flow, and Quick Look.” And he was impressed that “every piece of software and hardware I tried on two Leopard-equipped Macs—a loaned laptop from Apple and my own upgraded iMac—worked fine, exhibiting none of the compatibility problems that continue to plague Vista.”

Leopard “hits all the right spots” (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/edwardbaig/2007-10-24-leopard_N.htm)
“With Leopard, Apple’s operating system widens its lead aesthetically and technologically,” states Ed Baig (usatoday.com). Baig “migrated to Leopard” from Tiger “without pain on a MacBook laptop and my own iMac desktop; there’s mercifully none of the software driver and other hassles associated with a Windows operating system upgrade.” Calling Leopard “one cool cat,” Baig praises Time Machine with its automatic backup and effortless file retrieval; the new videoconferencing features in iChat Theater; stationery, notes and To Do options in Mail; Cover Flow, Spaces, Stacks, and the ability to “highlight and copy any portion of a Web page inside the Safari browser and turn it into a live Dashboard widget.”

Leopard unleashed (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/main.jhtml?xml=/connected/2007/10/25/dlleop25.xml)
Writing for the Telegraph, Claudine Beaumont tells us that “Leopard is slick, shiny” and offers any number of features that deliver the “wow factor.” Like CoverFlow, which in Leopard allows “you to whiz through files and documents, with the album covers replaced by mini-thumbnails showing the front page of documents. You can hover over these thumbnails to scroll through multi-page documents; if it’s a movie file, you can even play the film clip in Finder.” Stacks “another useful addition to Leopard, is a virtual ‘stack’ of documents that lives in the dock area, giving you one-click access to files.” “For me,” Beaumont states, “the stand-out feature is Time Machine,” but she’s also impressed that with Boot Camp built-in, Leopard becomes “the first Apple operating system that will also allow you to install a Windows operating system alongside it.”

Lots of “new goodies in Leopard” (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/25/technology/circuits/25pogue.html)
Mac OS X “Leopard is powerful, polished and carefully conceived. Happy surprises, and very few disappointments, lie around every corner. This Leopard has more than 300 new spots — and most of them are bright ones,” declares David Pogue (New York Times). He points, for example, to two “routine-changing” features. Time Machine, which offers “the shortest setup of any backup system in history.” And Quick Look, which lets you “view the contents of a document’s icon at full size, right at the desktop, without having to open the program that created it.” Pogue says “it’s fantastic.”

“Great” (http://www.macworld.com/2007/10/features/leopard_time_machine/index.php)
That’s the one-word assessment Rob Griffiths (macworld.com) offers for Time Machine. “Perfect for nearly everyone,” Griffiths points out that “Time Machine attempts to turn the complex and sometimes confusing world of backup and restore into a simple, visual operation. Backing up is simple: attach a drive of sufficient capacity.” And when the fateful day arrives and you need to rescue documents from oblivion, “ you launch the Time Machine application—Apple has added a Time Machine icon to Leopard’s Dock—and simply move backward through time to find the files or folders you wish to restore.”

Mac OS X Leopard “fast and sleek” (http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_7310593)
After putting Leopard through its paces, Dean Takahashi (San Jose Mercury News) finds it is aptly named—”It’s fast and sleek”—and concludes that the latest version of Mac OS X “gives Apple [an] advantage over Microsoft.” It offers “more than 300 new features, making it the biggest upgrade in a long time,” and “a lot of the features allow you to do things more quickly and more easily.” That includes iChat, which, he says, “got a good makeover. Besides doing video chats with the built-in Webcams on Macs, you can now use them to share any kind of file with the person you’re chatting with. You can also take over that friend’s desktop in case you’re diagnosing the machine from afar.”

“Using the computer more pleasurable” with Mac OS X Leopard (http://reviews.cnet.com/macintosh-os/mac-os-x-10/4505-3673_7-32058772.html)
“The grace of Leopard’s interface enhancements makes productivity more pleasurable with a Mac, as more than 300 functional and fun features top off this update,” reports Elsa Wenzel (cnet.com). Awarding it an “Excellent 8 out of 10,” Wenzel maintains that Leopard not only “makes Macs more enticing than Tiger did,” but that it “makes it far easier to find documents and applications than Windows Vista. Leopard’s interface niceties made the daily mechanics of using the computer more pleasurable. Mundane chores, such as finding files and backing up data, become a visual treat.”

“Leopard leaps to new heights” (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9043838)
“What’s new in Leopard? A lot,” say Ken Mingis and Michael DeAgonia (computerworld.com). The pair walk you through a 12-page analysis of the newest version of the Mac OS, spending time on many of the new features introduced in Leopard, including Stacks, Quick Look, Spaces, Time Machine, and numerous others. From Leopard’s “unified interface” to major under-the-hood changes, to wholly new apps, Leopard is a substantial, albeit evolutionary, advance for Mac OS X that builds on a solid foundation and adds a modicum of eye candy to reinforce the notion that this is something new and improved. It’s also fast — especially impressive given the new graphics sprinkled throughout the OS.”

Leopard “a pleasure to use” (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/silverman/5256273.html)
Calling Leopard the “apple of my eye,” Dwight Sliverman (Houston Chronicle) tells us that as he’s played with the newest version of Mac OS X, “I’m constantly being surprised by smart, useful and convenient touches. It is a pleasure to use.” For example, he calls Spaces his “favorite Leopard feature, because it instantly multiplies your desktop real estate. Those who use portable computers will particularly appreciate it. On my MacBook it’s a godsend.”

Leopard makes “using a Mac both more productive and more fun” (http://laptopmag.com/Review/Apple-Mac-OS-X-v10-5-Leopard.htm)
Troy Dreier (laptopmag.com) gives Leopard 4.5 stars (out of five). Praising Time Machine, he predicts that “Leopard will be remembered as the OS that debuted Time Machine, the backup tool that changes everything.” Equally positive about Cover Flow, Quick Look, Spaces, Mail, Boot Camp, and iChat, Dreier concludes that “Leopard is worth the price for Time Machine alone, but the sheer variety of improvements and innovation inside this OS give you much more than your money’s worth.”

Time Machine: “So simple, there’s no Step 3” (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9044339)
In his in-depth review of Time Machine, Ryan Faas (computerworld.com) does some déjà-vuing of his own, conjuring up an early iMac commercial to illustrate how simple it is for customers to use Time Machine to back up the data on their Macs. Calling it “one of the most compelling new features added to Mac OS X in years,” he praises Apple engineers for creating “a backup technology that requires little or no configuration, performs backups automatically and invisibly, and makes restoring files from those backups as simple and intuitive as humanly possible.”

Leopard “the most polished and easiest to use OS” (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2207556,00.asp)
In his 4.5-star (out of 5) review of Leopard, Edward Mendelson (pcmag.com) maintains that Leopard is “by far the best operating system ever written for the vast majority of consumers, with dozens of new features that have real practical value.” Mendelson “found Leopard to be startlingly fast, brilliantly streamlined, and packed with conveniences and innovations. Leopard’s rich set of built-in software runs faster than I imagined possible.”

Leopard “something any Mac user will want” (http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20071030/TECHNOLOGY/110300048/1020)
After a “swift and easy” installation, Mark Kellner (Washington Times) found Mac OS X Leopard “something any Mac user will want to have.” “Offering better integration of e-mail with syndicated Internet news updates, a new backup feature likely to decrease the impact of hardware failures, and snazzy display features by the bushel, the $129 Apple Mac OS X Leopard upgrade is more than a reasonable purchase.”

Leopard offers “a better user experience” and “inherent reliability” (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9044878)
Laying “the foundation for the next generation of personal computing,” Leopard “redefines what personal computing looks like,” according to Michael Gartenberg (computerworld.com). And Gartenberg offers a litany of Leopard features by which he’s impressed. “Cover Flow, a feature first used in iTunes, lets you browse files visually and then see a file’s contents without opening it.” He argues that “Apple’s IM client, iChat, runs rings around what’s available for other systems.” He’s always used his “e-mail in-box as a to-do list,” Gartenberg admits, “and Apple’s Mail client makes that really work.”

“Leopard breathes new life into an aging Mac” (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/columnists/chi-mon_techbuzz_1105nov05,0,1599676.column)
“If you own a Mac, you’ll want Leopard,” writes Eric Benderoff (chicagotribune.com). Running Leopard on both an iBook and a MacBook Pro, Benderoff learned first hand “why Apple’s new operating system upgrade, called Leopard, continues to make Mac computers the easiest and most enjoyable to use.” Citing Cover Flow, Spotlight, Spaces, and Stacks to illustrate his point, he concludes, “I can tell you this: for $129, Leopard breathes new life into an aging Mac.”

“Mac OS X Leopard: A perfect 10” (http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20071126/tc_infoworld/93614)
So states Tom Yager (InfoWorld). “People buy Macs,” Yager reports, “because the platform as a whole is perfect, full stop. Leopard is a rung above perfection. It’s taken as rote that the Mac blows away PC users’ expectations. Leopard blows away Mac users’ expectations, and that’s saying a great deal.” Leopard, Yager says “is remarkable; it’s more and better software than anyone should sell for $129.”


The best operating system ever is finally here. Yippee!! :D

[Gigacore]

its not a best OS ever. . . it cant beat XP. . . . XP can be used by any common individual. . .but to use OS X we need to have MAC hardware. . . which all people cant. . . . .

but i agree its better than vista coz, vista is a resource hungry beast. . . . . Ubuntu GG is better than vista . . .

[Third Eye]

Agree with Gigacore.Its not the best OS. :lol:

[aryayush]

How good an operating system is is not judged by what machines it can be installed on. It's judged by what it does and how it does it after it is installed.

What you are saying is something like, "The Zune's operating system is crap because it cannot be installed on iPods, which command around 75% of the market." Just imagine how lame that sounds!

Mac OS X is designed for Macs and forever will be - like it or not. :)

[Gigacore]

lol thankx third eye

WHATEVER IT IS, ITS NOT THE BEST OS EVER

its best among the mac OSes, if it cant be installed on other machines then why should they compare vista with mac os x. . . MAD

[ray|raven]

lol thankx third eye

WHATEVER IT IS, ITS NOT THE BEST OS EVER

its best among the mac OSes, if it cant be installed on other machines then why should they compare vista with mac os x. . . MAD
Dude,please stop calling people names.
Last thing we want in the reviews board is a flame war.

Regards,
ray

[Gigacore]

did i call people name :D :(

[aryayush]

its best among the mac OSes, if it cant be installed on other machines then why should they compare vista with mac os x. . . MADBecause Vista can be installed on Macs and because it is the dominant player in the market.

WHATEVER IT IS, ITS NOT THE BEST OS EVERYeah, I can see that you are being very logical and reasonable. LOL!

[iMav]

relax guys give him a few days to spam the review section (like he did during the iphone launch) .... let him have some fun ....

he is so excited of using features that windows users have been using for ages :), let him also feel what all a computer can do and windows can has been doing dont take that excitement away from him

[aryayush]

LOL! This is funny:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7536/leopardwindowseastereggry2.th.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leopardwindowseastereggry2.jpg)

I'd thought they would remove it from the final build but apparently they saw no real need to do so. Good thing too. :D

[The_Devil_Himself]

Hmm....I like OSX leopard too but tell me arya How can I get one to install on my system?

[iMav]

by paying 60k to get a new sytem :lol:

[Charan]

Ho no here we go... :( .. arya pls post all reviews in one single therad.

[aditya.shevade]

Vista is crap. I liked Mac 10.4 a lot. Have not seen 10.5 yet.

It's way better than XP. Any *nix system is way better than XP.

[iMav]

Mac 10.4 is crap. I liked Vista a lot. Have not seen Windows Vienna yet.

It's way better than XP. Any Windows system is way better than *nix.

[New]

For me also xp is the most stable os:o Jai XP:D

[ax3]

@Gigacore ...... +1 .......... softy & hardy both made by 1 comp .... so kuch toh good rahega na .......


ps: good bole toh sugar, woh wala good nahi ......

[aditya.shevade]

For me also xp is the most stable os:o Jai XP:D

Funny actually. I had been using openSUSE (which according to many is not stable) for 6 months and did not have any problems. Computer never hanged, no freezes, execution time was very good, no worries of virus/spyware.

I had to install Win XP on the same laptop (original that came with the laptop). Within 2 days, I was fed up. I had faced 4-5 threats, the laptop had hanged 2 times. The execution time was something like 2 times that of SUSE.

@iMav, maybe 10.4 was crap but looking at Vista, I would say it was much better. Maybe 10.5 is even better.... I am waiting... need to get out of the college till I get my own mac. :-(

[iMav]

ur laptop hung 2 times ... my dad's hp never hung in 3 years ...

[ray|raven]

I had to install Win XP on the same laptop (original that came with the laptop).
@iMav
Dude,No Offence but...You blind?

Regards,
ray

[iMav]

may be ya .... side effects of multi-tasking :D

[ray|raven]

Wah! You miss a post and now you edit to say something else.
What happened to ur so called deal u wanted with aditya?

Regards,
ray

[iMav]

the deal's off yaar ... simple :D i didnt miss the post i missed the brackets :D

i read the first link given by u arya .... it says:

nothing revolutionary :lol: we all know that :lol:

and there author also says that it cannot co-exist with os x which is absolutely false and un-necessary fanboyism and partiality towards apple as we both know how false a claim that windows cant co-exist with mac is

[aku]

Well, all we all know...
Be it Leopard or Vista, none of them are revolutionary..
they are simply "evolutionary"

[aditya.shevade]

^^ :-d

[aryayush]

ur laptop hung 2 times ... my dad's hp never hung in 3 years ...That is, of course, a plain old lie but you know that there is no way for us to prove you wrong. It is only possible for Windows to go three years (three weeks, even) without hanging even once if it has remained shut down the whole time.

Ho no here we go... :( .. arya pls post all reviews in one single therad.Can't you see that that is exactly what I did! I do try to learn from my mistakes. :)

[iMav]

That is, of course, a plain old lie but you know that there is no way for us to prove you wrong. It is only possible for Windows to go three years (three weeks, even) without hanging even once if it has remained shut down the whole time.

Can't you see that that is exactly what I did! I do try to learn from my mistakes. :) it didnt else my dad wud have killed me :) my existence is proof enough

[aryayush]

Yeah, I totally buy that. :rolleyes:

[azzu]

where's GX_saurav ???
and After 5th day of installation my XP has became so slow .
switchng to LINUX is kool love this .
But No Os can Beat XP

[praka123]

XP is neither good for all.Linux that works!

[Gigacore]

Arya... i'm sorry if i was RUDE :(

But its still not the best OS ever :D

[azzu]

^^ rght

[infra_red_dude]

I think the first post should be in this section while all the subsequent posts should be moved to Fight Club!!!

[paradisevikas]

hi in my view vista still rocks its far much better than xp n much more powerful
as far as osx is concerned leopard ko to jungle me he rehne do
ha ha .....

[aryayush]

Arya... i'm sorry if i was RUDE :(No offence taken. :)

But its still not the best OS ever :DWhatever.

[The_Devil_Himself]

Best is yet to come(its always like that).

I wonder what's the name of next OS X.
OS X Garfield?

Totally unnecessary post

[aryayush]

The two and a half years between the debut of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger and today’s release of 10.5 Leopard feels long, not just because it’s been the longest-ever stretch between major Mac OS X revisions, but also because it’s been an eventful two and a half years.

How eventful? Think about this: When 10.4.0 shipped, it was PowerPC-only; Intel-based Macs existed only in secret Cupertino labs.

There are plenty of other writers who’ve written excellent, top-to-bottom reviews of Leopard as a whole. If you read no other today, read Jason Snell’s at Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/2007/10/reviews/leopard_review/index.php). (And, of course, stay tuned for John Siracusa’s, coming Sunday at Ars Technica, which will cover not just the new-to-Leopard UI minutia, but also the numerous significant developer-level additions — be prepared for a lot of Leopard-only apps from indie developers in the immediate future.)

My nutshell take is this: I’ve been using Leopard full-time for about three months, and there’s no question it’s a worthy update. Is 10.5.0 truly ready for production use, or would most users be better off waiting for 10.5.1? We’ll see. No one ever got hurt by waiting a week or two to install a new OS. But there’s no question that most of the new features and changes in Leopard are winners. There are some turds, too, but the ratio of improvements-to-regressions is pretty high by my score.

The most significant new feature in Leopard is Time Machine. That’s why the retail packaging and default desktop picture are Time-Machine-flavored, and a few years from now when we’re installing Mac OS X 10.7 Feral Alley Cat, it’s the feature we’ll remember when reminiscing about what was new in 10.5.

The most striking aspect of Time Machine is its UI. When it debuted at WWDC 2006, it immediately faced criticism that it was just downright gimmicky. It is in fact gimmicky, but, I think, that’s actually a good thing in Time Machine’s particular and unique case. Apple has made something so effect-laden and so extraordinary that users want to see it in action — the fact that that something is backups, which, let’s face it, is effectively a chore, is a noteworthy achievement. Making backup software that people can’t wait to try, and which, once activated, just automatically kicks in and does its thing on a regular schedule, is like making people want to go ahead and sign up for life insurance.

The argument for Time Machine’s game-like UI isn’t that it’s more usable, but that more people will use it. That’s actually more important in the case of backup software: there will be data saved that would otherwise have been lost if Time Machine instead sported a more traditional, straightforward visual appearance, because there will be some number of users who will have turned Time Machine on in the first place only because it looks so damn cool. It’s results that matter most, and the result of Time Machine is going to be that more Mac users will be backing up their data regularly than ever before. For some Mac users, who otherwise still wouldn’t be backing up regularly, it’s going to end up being the most important feature Apple has ever added to the Mac OS.

The design of Time Machine is the single most Apple-like thing in Leopard. No way would a UI like this have come from anyone else, including the old pre-return-of-Steve-Jobs Apple Computer — if anything, the old Apple of the 1990’s was more traditional than any other UI design company.



After Time Machine, it’s the little things that stand out most in Leopard. Quick Look, for example, is a joy to use. Just select a file in the Finder and hit the space bar. Boom, you have an instant preview. Hit space again and it goes away. (Apple’s choice of the space bar as the toggle is perfect.) It takes about 30 seconds of playing with Quick Look to wonder how you ever lived without it. Read more... (http://daringfireball.net/2007/10/leopard)

[Via Daring Fireball (http://daringfireball.net/2007/10/leopard)]

[aditya.shevade]

Good.... Can't wait.....

[aryayush]

For what? :)

[manishjha18]

those who want to use mac on xp machine -its easy--download hackintosh--
for education purpose only--it works--u have to download drivers separately--
its nothing but whole os without hardware checker and u would have to install drivers manuall

[The_Devil_Himself]

^^is it legal by any chance?

[aryayush]

Of course not. Not even close.

(And it is not as easy as he suggests. Plus, even after successful installation, it will be fraught with various issues.)

[iMav]

thats hwat os x is - fraught with issues ... stupid issues :D

[aditya.shevade]

For what? :)

For getting out of college, getting a job and getting my own mac.

[Desi-Tek.com]

leopard x86 version is now available in popular torrent site :)

[iMav]

^^ installing it isnt easy as of now ....

[manishjha18]

i think its legal--if u do for educational purpose only
i wd install it within 2 weeks--and wd give the updates--
anyway they can be found in torrents and you wd have to use acronis disk manager

http://forum.insanelymac.com/

[iMav]

1. its illegal for any purpose - if u nee find an excuse u can do so ;) but legally speaking it violates laws

2. leopard installation is very tricky as u have to manually patch it, there was a pre-patched version floating but that was a for a very few days and the torrent was pulled down .... may be steve jobs found out and was worried that the whole world wud come to know how crappy the os is :D

please remove the link it might get u banned :)

[MetalheadGautham]

whatever people say about Apple's OS for their Computer, its still the best thing their machine can have, as a MAC OS is designed to exploit every single electron, proton and neutron in a MAC. And its no use to talk about macs here in this forum, concidering hardly 0.1% of the indian computer enabled population use MACs. They are not even niche.

[aryayush]

It's Mac, short for Macintosh, not MAC. :)

And please stop the discussion that was going on prior to the post above mine. It is against the rules.

[aryayush]

Mac OS X Leopard “fast and sleek” (http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_7310593)
After putting Leopard through its paces, Dean Takahashi (San Jose Mercury News) finds it is aptly named—”It’s fast and sleek”—and concludes that the latest version of Mac OS X “gives Apple [an] advantage over Microsoft.” It offers “more than 300 new features, making it the biggest upgrade in a long time,” and “a lot of the features allow you to do things more quickly and more easily.” That includes iChat, which, he says, “got a good makeover. Besides doing video chats with the built-in Webcams on Macs, you can now use them to share any kind of file with the person you’re chatting with. You can also take over that friend’s desktop in case you’re diagnosing the machine from afar.”

“Using the computer more pleasurable” with Mac OS X Leopard (http://reviews.cnet.com/macintosh-os/mac-os-x-10/4505-3673_7-32058772.html)
“The grace of Leopard’s interface enhancements makes productivity more pleasurable with a Mac, as more than 300 functional and fun features top off this update,” reports Elsa Wenzel (cnet.com). Awarding it an “Excellent 8 out of 10,” Wenzel maintains that Leopard not only “makes Macs more enticing than Tiger did,” but that it “makes it far easier to find documents and applications than Windows Vista. Leopard’s interface niceties made the daily mechanics of using the computer more pleasurable. Mundane chores, such as finding files and backing up data, become a visual treat.”

“Leopard leaps to new heights” (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9043838)
“What’s new in Leopard? A lot,” say Ken Mingis and Michael DeAgonia (computerworld.com). The pair walk you through a 12-page analysis of the newest version of the Mac OS, spending time on many of the new features introduced in Leopard, including Stacks, Quick Look, Spaces, Time Machine, and numerous others. From Leopard’s “unified interface” to major under-the-hood changes, to wholly new apps, Leopard is a substantial, albeit evolutionary, advance for Mac OS X that builds on a solid foundation and adds a modicum of eye candy to reinforce the notion that this is something new and improved. It’s also fast — especially impressive given the new graphics sprinkled throughout the OS.”

[iMav]

Why Leopard Isn't Better than Vista (http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/operating_systems/why_leopard_isnt_better_than_vista.html)

Apple's newest operating system is at best an evolution from predecessor Tiger. Some of the criticisms leveled at Windows Vista apply to Leopard. Seriously.

I bought my copy of Leopard on Saturday from the local Apple Store. Granted, I've only used the software for two days, but it has made a remarkably fast first impression. There is much to like about Leopard, but this cat scratches—oh, am I wounded.

What's bugging me about Leopard is what bugged me about Vista eight months ago:

* Feature or UI changes made without really good reasons

* Application compatibility problems

* Diminished performance compared to the predecessor operating system

* Irksome sense the software shipped before being really ready

I tested Leopard on a MacBook Pro that Apple provided for testing Aperture: 2.4GHz processor, 4GB of RAM, 256MB graphics accelerator and 160GB hard drive. I kept the notebook longer for Leopard testing. No doubt someone will ask for the loaner back as soon this post is passed around Cupertino.

My problems with Leopard started fairly quickly. Apple's pre-Leopard launch marketing exacerbated the problems, because it so increased expectations about those 300 new features. Apple's past practice of delivering more than promised gave some confidence about Leopard. Sure, there are some truly whiz-bang enhancements, with some of the seemingly smallest having big impact (example: users can from the main Spotlight search window type in definitions to find words in the dictionary). But compatibility and performance problems are causing me way too much trouble.

Some quick examples:

* The new Apple Mail can no longer delete messages from my personal domain's IMAP server; they're piling up in the inbox

* Leopard is incompatible with my version of Cisco VPN. I did hunt down a compatible upgrade

* Safari crashes ... often enough

* Outlook Web mail works sometimes in Safari, but usually just hangs; it's A-OK in Firefox

* Internet connection is sluggish and routes slowly (connected through an Apple AirPort router); performance is speedy by comparison on Windows Vista or Tiger

Interface changes add unnecessary complexity to the operating system. Another added complexity: Like Microsoft, Apple has added new and annoying security prompts to the operating system. This morning, I downloaded an updated NewsFire RSS reader and got a warning popup asking if I really wanted to open this application—because it came from the Internet. Maybe Apple's user interface designers should watch their own TV commercials: "Security."

I'm going to give Leopard another day, but already I'm thinking about switching the MacBook Pro back to Tiger. Isn't that a story told and retold about Vista, where people went back to XP? It's a story other Leopard adopters may tell.

My point: Leopard is no better than Vista, in the sense that some—perhaps many—of the same migration complaints and problems apply. Windows' visibility and exponentially large number of applications amplify its complaints. There are more potential problems to have with Windows compared to Mac OS X. Besides, Microsoft is the successful company so many people love to hate. Criticism is easy, and it's frequent.

Leopard's problems would be a whole lot bigger if more businesses used Mac OS X. I'm simply one consumer user. By the way, I had no serious problems (other than Cisco VPN) migrating to Leopard's two predecessors, Panther and Tiger. My user experience, while anecdotal, shows the problems that can come as an operating system adds on features and its supporting ecosystem of software increases. Those 300 new features have their price in increased complexity and compatibility problems.

By the way, Cover Flow is the one Leopard feature I really like. Cover Flow lets me scan through documents without opening them, which is hugely convenient. But the one compelling feature won't be enough to stick with Leopard, particularly if personal and professional e-mail problems persist.

By comparison, Vista's shakedown is largely over. I have little to complain about and lots more to like about Vista than I did in February.

[a_k_s_h_a_y]

good... but who cares.. it does not run on a PC..lol

and vista is $hit any day ... so much resources ?? ( may be next version might be gud* unlikely )
i thought microsoft hired all the best brains..
may be all of them now either in apple or google... or ppl at microsoft are bored...

so its still XP..


unforutunately.. i guess all Apple APIs $uck.. so what's the whole point in being best OS.. lol

[cooldudie3]

I would say that Leopard rules! cant beat XP but it sure can beat Vista

[azzu]

^^ Well said
one question IMAv how do u got Leopard do u hav MAC??

[aryayush]

He hasn't "upgraded" to Leopard and he does not have a Mac.

[iMav]

He hasn't "upgraded" to Leopard not long my friend not long :twisted: the crappy 128kbps is that what has kept me on leash :twisted:

[aryayush]

* Diminished performance compared to the predecessor operating system * Safari crashes ... often enough * Internet connection is sluggish and routes slowly (connected through an Apple AirPort router); performance is speedy by comparison on Windows Vista or TigerI was willing to objectively consider this reviewer's view point despite the website this comes from, all authors and administrators of which seem to have a hard-on for Windows.

But it is impossible for me to do so after reading the three points quoted above. Every single review I've read of Leopard (and I've been reading many of them and for a few months now), including even the most critical ones, universally agree that Leopard is faster and more stable than Tiger on the same hardware and that Safari is screaming fast and stable. I've been using the developer preview builds for a few months now and upgraded to the retail version a day before it was released and I have the exact same opinion. My MacBook Pro feels like a completely different machine. It was very resposive earlier but now it's like it is on steroids or something. Milind will tell you something similar about his two Macs, one of which is a PowerPC Mac.

This "reviewer" is lying, plain and simple. There is no other explanation for it. You can lie to me and fool me about something I have little idea of, but you're on crack if you think you can somehow make me believe whatever you wish to about something I've used far more than you have. The operating system restarts in seventeen freaking seconds. That's not a joke! He started out with an agenda in mind and that was to prove that Vista is better than Leopard. Since he does not have any valid points whatsoever to make, he resorted to the same old FUD we are very familiar with. And of course, like is par for the course, iMav just has to report every piece of bullshit about Apple that ever hits the web. Disgusting.

[iMav]

iMav just has to report every piece of bullshit about Apple that ever hits the web. Disgusting. y u blaming me dude ... i didnt type it i havnt tried leopard yet dont vent ur OS's frustration on me man

[Abhishek Dwivedi]

yar kuch bhi kaho....vista is a res hog and mac OS X is ..hmmm....its got a lot of probs....so ::::

XP ROCKS...

chearsssss

[azzu]

^^ yo and Linux lack's software compatibility
so XP rocks again

[praka123]

:x Linux lack's software compatibility? NO,hardware vendors shud be accused as with what i hear with bad driver support in Vista also for Linux.Linux supports most h/ws now.

[aryayush]

Leopard “a pleasure to use” (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/silverman/5256273.html)
Calling Leopard the “apple of my eye,” Dwight Sliverman (Houston Chronicle) tells us that as he’s played with the newest version of Mac OS X, “I’m constantly being surprised by smart, useful and convenient touches. It is a pleasure to use.” For example, he calls Spaces his “favorite Leopard feature, because it instantly multiplies your desktop real estate. Those who use portable computers will particularly appreciate it. On my MacBook it’s a godsend.”

Leopard makes “using a Mac both more productive and more fun” (http://laptopmag.com/Review/Apple-Mac-OS-X-v10-5-Leopard.htm)
Troy Dreier (laptopmag.com) gives Leopard 4.5 stars (out of five). Praising Time Machine, he predicts that “Leopard will be remembered as the OS that debuted Time Machine, the backup tool that changes everything.” Equally positive about Cover Flow, Quick Look, Spaces, Mail, Boot Camp, and iChat, Dreier concludes that “Leopard is worth the price for Time Machine alone, but the sheer variety of improvements and innovation inside this OS give you much more than your money’s worth.”

Time Machine: “So simple, there’s no Step 3” (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9044339)
In his in-depth review of Time Machine, Ryan Faas (computerworld.com) does some déjà-vuing of his own, conjuring up an early iMac commercial to illustrate how simple it is for customers to use Time Machine to back up the data on their Macs. Calling it “one of the most compelling new features added to Mac OS X in years,” he praises Apple engineers for creating “a backup technology that requires little or no configuration, performs backups automatically and invisibly, and makes restoring files from those backups as simple and intuitive as humanly possible.”

Leopard “the most polished and easiest to use OS” (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2207556,00.asp)
In his 4.5-star (out of 5) review of Leopard, Edward Mendelson (pcmag.com) maintains that Leopard is “by far the best operating system ever written for the vast majority of consumers, with dozens of new features that have real practical value.” Mendelson “found Leopard to be startlingly fast, brilliantly streamlined, and packed with conveniences and innovations. Leopard’s rich set of built-in software runs faster than I imagined possible.”

Leopard “something any Mac user will want” (http://www.washingtontimes.com/article/20071030/TECHNOLOGY/110300048/1020)
After a “swift and easy” installation, Mark Kellner (Washington Times) found Mac OS X Leopard “something any Mac user will want to have.” “Offering better integration of e-mail with syndicated Internet news updates, a new backup feature likely to decrease the impact of hardware failures, and snazzy display features by the bushel, the $129 Apple Mac OS X Leopard upgrade is more than a reasonable purchase.”

[aryayush]

Leopard offers “a better user experience” and “inherent reliability” (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9044878)
Laying “the foundation for the next generation of personal computing,” Leopard “redefines what personal computing looks like,” according to Michael Gartenberg (computerworld.com). And Gartenberg offers a litany of Leopard features by which he’s impressed. “Cover Flow, a feature first used in iTunes, lets you browse files visually and then see a file’s contents without opening it.” He argues that “Apple’s IM client, iChat, runs rings around what’s available for other systems.” He’s always used his “e-mail in-box as a to-do list,” Gartenberg admits, “and Apple’s Mail client makes that really work.”

[anandk]

Apple Leopard and Windows Vista Much Alike.

The comparisons are already beginning but many are saying that Windows Vista and Apple's Leopard have much in common; glitches.

"Mac's Tiger and Windows XP are much more stable platforms" we hear, but this has come with time.

http://www.gameshout.com/news/apple_leopard_and_windows_vista_much_alike/article9788.htm

an interesting read ! :D should subdue certain quarters.

[ring_wraith]

Solution : Get a Mac and bootcamp XP.

No one needs Vista. XP for Gaming , Leopard for eye - candy filled everyday tasks.

[raptorz]

After reading the comment's in this thread, I feel most of the people here have a "Frog in a Well" mentality. Every frog thinks its well is the best.

Most of the people supporting xp, have never seen a mac.

I have been using XP since it came out, Vista since its beta days, Ubuntu for 2 years, and Mac OS X 10.4 for 4 months.

If you compare them, Mac really rocks.

Every OS has a learning curve. Because of its market share, windows happens to be the OS everyone is familiar with. It's natural, as most of them are biased towards windows.


There is no point in blindly saying that mac is ****. Get a mac, use it for a few days, then you will appreciate it.

[Pathik]

^^ Same durations for me but out of the four, I prefer Xp and Ubuntu the most,

[T159]

:x Linux lack's software compatibility? NO,hardware vendors shud be accused as with what i hear with bad driver support in Vista also for Linux.Linux supports most h/ws now.

Linux has the best compatibility.:)

Win XP gives dumb errors when something happens and u never get to the root cause of them easily.:mad:

But for linux even error messages are precise and u can get help within few mins on google.;-)

[aryayush]

“Leopard breathes new life into an aging Mac” (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/columnists/chi-mon_techbuzz_1105nov05,0,1599676.column)
“If you own a Mac, you’ll want Leopard,” writes Eric Benderoff (chicagotribune.com). Running Leopard on both an iBook and a MacBook Pro, Benderoff learned first hand “why Apple’s new operating system upgrade, called Leopard, continues to make Mac computers the easiest and most enjoyable to use.” Citing Cover Flow, Spotlight, Spaces, and Stacks to illustrate his point, he concludes, “I can tell you this: for $129, Leopard breathes new life into an aging Mac.”

[praka123]

“I can tell you this: for $129, Leopard breathes new life into an aging Mac.”
^^^that words are significant.but....then the flows found...wt abt them>apple will update or wht?

[aryayush]

10.5.1 has already been released to developers for testing and it has fixed all known bugs yet. :)

Note also that no important publication I know has had anything but kind words to say about Apple's latest cat.

[aryayush]

“Mac OS X Leopard: A perfect 10” (http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20071126/tc_infoworld/93614)
So states Tom Yager (InfoWorld). “People buy Macs,” Yager reports, “because the platform as a whole is perfect, full stop. Leopard is a rung above perfection. It’s taken as rote that the Mac blows away PC users’ expectations. Leopard blows away Mac users’ expectations, and that’s saying a great deal.” Leopard, Yager says “is remarkable; it’s more and better software than anyone should sell for $129.”

[desiibond]

“Mac OS X Leopard: A perfect 10” (http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20071126/tc_infoworld/93614)
So states Tom Yager (InfoWorld). “People buy Macs,” Yager reports, “because the platform as a whole is perfect, full stop. Leopard is a rung above perfection. It’s taken as rote that the Mac blows away PC users’ expectations. Leopard blows away Mac users’ expectations, and that’s saying a great deal.” Leopard, Yager says “is remarkable; it’s more and better software than anyone should sell for $129.”

perfect 10. hmm. I doubt that

If it's that perfect, why are we seeing blue death now. I though apple fanboys ridiculed windows about the BSOD. but now, "http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306857"

Yes. Apple released a fix now. but this is not the only problem. There are huge number of compatibility issues.

I agree that it's better than Vista (as of now) but it's not perfect OS.

Waiting for Vista SP1 and OS X 10.5.1 :-)

[Charan]

LOL how can some thing get a perfect 10 with flaws? um even if its getting "fixed". atlest we can see that there is that Blue screen error and firewall problem.

[iMav]

fbkma

[praka123]

Mac OS X Leopard “better and faster than Vista”
LOL! :p
Mac4Lin Leopard "better and faster than Original Leopard" ;)

[aryayush]

If it's that perfect, why are we seeing blue death now. I though apple fanboys ridiculed windows about the BSOD. but now, "http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306857"It has been explained pretty well by John Gruber and I posted it in another thread. The blue screen error occurs only when people install one particular hack that inserts files in a system folder that is strictly off-limits. It is completely their fault. I commend the fact that Apple still took it so seriously and posted a Knowledge Base article about it.

There are huge number of compatibility issues.Yeah, and you know that how? I loathe this kind of behaviour. Have you ever used Leopard? No, you haven't. I do and have been doing so for the past three months. It has almost zero compatibility issues. I have heard of some applications not working well but at least in my case, there have been no issues at all. In any case, it is pretty clear that the compatibility issues are few and far between. When an entire operating system is upgraded, a few third party applications are bound to get broken. No company can prevent that from happening. The good thing about the Mac community is that the developers are fast. Almost all the applications that had compatibility issues have already been upgraded for Leopard.

Waiting for Vista SP1 and OS X 10.5.1 :-)Come out from under that rock. 10.5.1 has already been released. I'm using it right now.

LOL how can some thing get a perfect 10 with flaws? um even if its getting "fixed". atlest we can see that there is that Blue screen error and firewall problem.Which firewall problem?

[Gigacore]

^ Yes leo's firewall claw has been patched...

Offtopic: Found this interesting :D

http://macnewsonline.com/wp/2007/07/09/5-leopard-gui-gripes/

[Charan]

Which firewall problem?
Cracks in the Mac OS X Leopard firewall (http://www.heise-security.co.uk/news/98156)

@giga.. those were for the beta build :p

[Gigacore]

@giga.. those were for the beta build :p

http://www.cs.utk.edu/~moore/opinions/how-macosx-sucks.html

http://themacsucks.com/joomla/content/category/1/17/32/

:D

[aryayush]

OMG! You seriously need to get a life, man. Fast.


It's free. Seriously.

[Gigacore]

^ i know that iLife Sucks.. u dont have to say it indirectly

[iMav]

It has been explained pretty well by John Gruber and I posted it in another thread. The blue screen error occurs only when people install one particular hack that inserts files in a system folder that is strictly off-limits. It is completely their fault. I commend the fact that Apple still took it so seriously and posted a Knowledge Base article about it. hmmm well in that case stop using all non-apple made softys on ur mac books it will ensure no bsods :lol:

Have you ever used Leopard? No, you haven't sam old rant arya ... same old rant ... have u used have u used it blah blah blah .... we used it and showed it how great it is :lol: dont worry leopard ka number bhi aayega ;)

[desiibond]

Yeah, and you know that how? I loathe this kind of behaviour. Have you ever used Leopard? No, you haven't. I do and have been doing so for the past three months. It has almost zero compatibility issues. I have heard of some applications not working well but at least in my case, there have been no issues at all. In any case, it is pretty clear that the compatibility issues are few and far between. When an entire operating system is upgraded, a few third party applications are bound to get broken. No company can prevent that from happening. The good thing about the Mac community is that the developers are fast. Almost all the applications that had compatibility issues have already been upgraded for Leopard.


almost zero compatibility issues. Looks like you dont' install any third party app. Yes. Do not install uncertified thirdparty app on vista. Do not use incompatible hardware on Vista. It will be a rocksolid OS.

coming to mac incompatibilities:

http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/compat.html

Take a look at this link. 22-page document.

[gx_saurav]

The blue screen error occurs only when people install one particular hack that inserts files in a system folder that is strictly off-limits. It is completely their fault.

Is there some system restore or recovery way similar to Safe mode of Windows with GUI?

Have you ever used Leopard?

If u say we have not used leopard from our limited knowledge of Mac platform & don't like us giving the verdict or saying something against it, then u have also not used Vista. :D

[aryayush]

almost zero compatibility issues. Looks like you dont' install any third party app. Yes. Do not install uncertified thirdparty app on vista. Do not use incompatible hardware on Vista. It will be a rocksolid OS.I have in excess of thirty third party applications on Leopard.

coming to mac incompatibilities:

http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/compat.html

Take a look at this link. 22-page document.It is a single page document and almost every single application has the comment "it is now Leopard compatible".

[desiibond]

I have in excess of thirty third party applications on Leopard.

It is a single page document and almost every single application has the comment "it is now Leopard compatible".

LOL. single page document. It is a single link doc. But take a printout and you get 22 pages. If I think like you, all ebooks are single page documents. It's single file :eek:.

Every single app????

Acrobat 8 ProfessionalCompatibility update scheduled for January 2008.
Photoshop Elements 4 and earlier"Likely to encounter issues for which there is no resolution."Pro video applications, including Premiere Pro CS3, After Effects CS3 Professional, Encore CS3, and Soundbooth CS3 Compatibility updates scheduled for December 2007.
AOL for Mac OS XVersion 10.3.7 is not currently compatible. AOL is working to fix issues
iPhoto 2Not compatible.
Epson

Epson maintains a Leopard Support (http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/SupportLeopard.jsp) page with information on and download access to Leopard-compatible drivers for scanners, printers, and all-in-ones. Among the products currently without compatible software are the V750 Pro, V700 Photo, V500 Photo, and V200 Photo scanners.

VPN Tracker 4Equinux says: "VPN Tracker 4 is not compatible with Mac OS 10.5 (Leopard), and due to fundamental changes in the operating system, we will not be able to patch this version." VPN Tracker 5, just now starting beta testing (http://equinux.com/us/products/vpntracker/beta/v5l.html), will be compatible.
M-Audio

M-Audio does not maintain a Leopard compatibility listing for its products (that we have found, at least), and users report mixed results with various pieces of gear. The company says:"
Due to the nature of software and driver development, we are not able to provide exact dates for when specific drivers will become available--but please rest assured that supporting Leopard is a top priority for us. As soon as Leopard drivers or updates for any product become available, our Web site will be immediately updated to reflect this.
If you choose to install Leopard on your system before your M-Audio product has been qualified for use with the new OS, please be aware that your M-Audio device may not function properly.



And the list goes on. The above entries are some of heavily used programs. I haven't mentioned all of them.

Arya, I certainly believe that you use mac only for its looks and nothing else

Nice column in pcmag by Oliver Rist

Leopard is the New Vista, and It's Pissing Me Off

I'm not sure what ticks me off more about Leoptard (I can't take credit for that nickname—some Brit coined it): the fact that so many of the semi-important changes don't work, the fact that Apple turned a stable OS into a crash-happy glitz fest, or that the annoying, scruffy Live Free or Die Hard actor infecting my TV (and our Web site, by the way) is pretending that Leopard is better than Vista. It's not better than Vista. Leopard is Vista. And Tiger is better than both of them!

Full column: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2223921,00.asp

[aryayush]

Arya, I certainly believe that you use mac only for its looks and nothing elseLOL! Yeah, I do. That is my prime priority.

I'm amazed by your insight! You have me all figured out. :lol:

[Yamaraj]

Macs* were 10x faster than Intel PCs in the past. And even with "Intel Inside", they're still better and faster than all other PCs. All hail Macs* and fanboys!

Besides, OSX cannot even legally be installed on non-Apple hardware - not even in a virtual machine. Talk about "evil" Microsoft and "incompetent" Linuxen.

* - Technically, Mac died the moment it switched to x86 "PeeCee" architecture. Now, it's just another IBM-PC clone.

[x3060]

what ever they may say . . i say mac is a class of its own . for simplicity and productivity . for only one product of their is the best in the world . . . final cut pro :-). its a class apart , nothing in the world comes close to it :-). well it works with Linux . i guess , but if you are a compositor and are looking for THE ultimate . the answer is simple , get a mac and FCP . its the best . the debate ends there .

since its about mac and vista am not putting Linux in to it :-). also i dont know about others , well they say max dont run so hot on mac , or is it maya ?. but i have not tried both on mac . but i have seen FCP and that product will never go from your mind :-).

[iMav]

oh ya buy a mac for 1 software it will never go from ur mind ... damn right it wont ... u just paid 70k-1lac to run 1 software :lol: :lol:

[x3060]

one software thats right . . :-). but that software is used by all the movie industry . . thats the truth . well if i had money , i would be running genuine maya and combustion in my macine win xp . thats all i use my machine for . by the way , you dont seem to like FCP do you ?. :-(... i got no objection for win or mac . i care for programs that runs on it . not a win or mac . cause am no system programmer . may be you are :-l

[infra_red_dude]

oh ya buy a mac for 1 software it will never go from ur mind ... damn right it wont ... u just paid 70k-1lac to run 1 software :lol: :lol:
Goto any News channel office and you'll know that they DO spend 60k+ for Macs just to run Final Cut Pro. When it comes to specialized tasks (video editing/photo/mixing etc.) the Mac has NO competition - No Windows, No GNU/Linux!

Why do you think that you represnt the whole world??! :D :lol:

[x3060]

yeah , its the truth . . that software is god of all compositing and editing softwares . . i think there is a Linux version . . but definitely in the field of editing . nothing beats mac .you need to move from that narrow mind mate . i love all o.s but i also accept the truth . just like windows is the god of games . and Linux is the god of freedom

go to apple site and check for final cut pro or studio "something " thats whats its called , it comes as a bundle . you will know what i mean :-).

[iMav]

Why do you think that you represnt the whole world??! i represent most of the news viewers ;) i dont care what they do behind the scenes which OS they use as long as i get my news (im a news junkie)

[infra_red_dude]

i represent most of the news viewers ;) i dont care what they do behind the scenes which OS they use as long as i get my news (im a news junkie)
See the "bolded" part there?? Yep, "as long as you get your news" is the point! You wouldn't want a BSOD in the middle of your news, rite?? :))

[iMav]

abey doordarshan bhinews detta hai .... and all the news readers chk out their lappy's they arent macs

aur mere sher abhi tu normal average user ki baat nahi kar raha linux software ke time tereko average user normal user yaad atta hai :D

[x3060]

correct ;-) and that too news taking for ever to render . . imagine editing with 2gb ram in win . . man , i hate my machine sometimes . . how i wish my machine supports 16 gb ram :-(. . . by the way , you are just trying to escape mate . i can sense that ;-)

[iMav]

dude u r justifying buying a mac for 1 application every1 is not a proffesional vdo editor ... escape get some sense in ur brains .... escape :lol: buy a 1lac machine for 1 software wen its of no use to me :? u alright :?:

[x3060]

by the way . since you brought up Linux . i can say . . any Linux user out there can be proud of himself . considering the fact that "you can actually build an o.s of your own and distribute it " imagine the feeling you will get when some one uses your o.s that you build . . win and mac dont give you that freedom

i justify my reason to buy mac . . cause i am me and not you ;-). my field is diff . there mac rule . . so how do you expect me to say that it sucks :-l. did i ever said win sucks ?

[iMav]

oh oh grudgy is here im outta here

PS: for some reason i fear grudgy more than raaabo i dont know why

[x3060]

and i did not force you to buy a mac . . i will if apple pays me ;-). but that aint gonna happen :-(. how i wish i get money for writing buy win . . buy mac , buy lin 1 lakh for win add another for mac and lin :-) :-)

[praka123]

^if ur in kerala,go to Apple shop near Kadavanthra Rajiv Gandhi Indoor stadium for a demo. :p lasergraphics is the dealer of macs here.

[infra_red_dude]

abey doordarshan bhinews detta hai .... and all the news readers chk out their lappy's they arent macs

aur mere sher abhi tu normal average user ki baat nahi kar raha linux software ke time tereko average user normal user yaad atta hai :D
You don't get it!! The news reader isn't the one "editing" the news footage!! Lolz... :lol: What you see gets edited behind the scenes!

And regarding the "not macs or OSS", do you think they don't haf backup laptops for news readers in front of them. Goto a news studio dude, you'll understand what I am talking about!!!

You really haf NO idea regarding anything else other than Windows and its domain. Seriously, if you get time then visit some studio. Get outta that closed mind and learn to appreciate things...

[iMav]

dude are u even understanding what im saying :?

http://www.thinkdigit.com/forum/showpost.php?p=687697&postcount=101

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ I thought we were talking about video editing and news!!!! I didn't know the topic was whether iMav should buy a Mac or not!!!!!! :lol:

[iMav]

not imav but ur average person ;) the 1 u always talk about when we are discussing OSS ;)

and yeah major recording studios use windows based systems too ;)

[praka123]

^yeah.hence asianet local channels(running Vista and XP) showing BSOD and "system had a critical error,please restart"-something like that.I really liked "rosebowl","jukebox" etc these channels are high quality,but hangs in an hour or so,bcoz of.....XP or VISTA!!!:D
yeah!definitely they use windows! :rolleyes: BTW,i understand many "quality" channels are using MAC more than any other OS!

[infra_red_dude]

not imav but ur average person ;) the 1 u always talk about when we are discussing OSS ;)

and yeah major recording studios use windows based systems too ;)
Lolz... :lol: You should be given an award for twisting, digressing and pretending not to understand things.

The average user does NOT edit videos sitting at home and sends it across the news studio for broadcasting!!

Show me one post of mine where I said "average user" should buy Macs for editing "news footage"!!! Just read all of my posts again. All the while I've been talking about news studios using Final Cut Pro for editing news footage! x3060 is talking about the movie industry. I dunno from where do you imagine things that never occurred!! :rolleyes:

At least in this domain (video editing/mixing etc.) the Mac is the winner and preferred by all. I don't say it, the industry does!

Edit: Oops... I forgot your award. Here's your medal :))

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en-commons/thumb/0/0b/300px-Medal-zwyciestwa-i-wolnosci_Polska.jpg

[iMav]

The average user does NOT edit videos sitting at home and sends it across the news studio for broadcasting!!
toh mere tau main bhi wohi bol raha hoon just coz of 1 application os x doesnt become better than vista - the application has a specific use in an ind that doesnt justify u or me buying os x or u or me buying macs :? u always come up with whats the use for average person what does this software give average user same way im saying that fcp is not meant for average user and this application doesnt justify buying mac ;) i mean dude shake ur brain a few times u might understand a few things ....koi bhi page pe sidha jump kar ke do post padhke reply karega toh tu kuch bolega aur doosra kuch bolega ;)

[infra_red_dude]

toh mere tau main bhi wohi bol raha hoon just coz of 1 application os x doesnt become better than vista - the application has a specific use in an ind that doesnt justify u or me buying os x or u or me buying macs :? u always come up with whats the use for average person what does this software give average user same way im saying that fcp is not meant for average user and this application doesnt justify buying mac ;) i mean dude shake ur brain a few times u might understand a few things ....koi bhi page pe sidha jump kar ke do post padhke reply karega toh tu kuch bolega aur doosra kuch bolega ;)
Seriously man! Mebbe I need to stoop to your understanding levelz!! I dunno why the specific case of average user! Does the title say: Leopard better than vista for "average user"!!?? Or does x3060 say FCP is best for "average user"!

The results don't change whether an "average user" uses a Mac or a professional user uses the same for multimedia work! Its all upto the indivudal whether he buys it for his/her use or not! You can't say "fcp is not meant for average user". Who issued this fatwa???

No more posts from me "making you understand what I am posting" (Din, I salute you! :)) )

[iMav]

No more posts from me "making you understand what I am posting" same here ;) but trust me u guys twist things to suit urself more than i do ;)

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ Thank you for maintaining peace, Sir :) I need no justification or certification for any of my posts in this thread. They are visible to all and they stay the same!

[x3060]

man , that guy deserves an oscar ;-) . .

[aryayush]

I don't want to indulge in a debate (specially now that I have far more interesting stuff to do) but just to set the record straight, there are only two Macs that cost upwards of Rs. 1 lac - the most top-of-the-line MacBook Pro and all configurations of the Mac Pro.

Most Macs cost less than Rs. 1 lac.

So, iMav, please stop repeating the stupid statement that you have to spend 1 lac bucks to buy a Mac. You can buy a Mac for as low as Rs. 40,000. In fact, if you want to consider the option of second hand stuff, I can even show you Macs in fine condition being sold for Rs. 25,000.

So, my advice to you is - cut the bullshit!

Oh, and just in case you did not know, a lot of PCs cost in excess of Rs. 1 lac too.

[drgrudge]

AFAIK, Except MacBook Pro (starts from $2k/Rs. 1.05 Lacs) or Mac Pro, all the Mac (except maybe top of the end iMac) will be costing less a hundred thousand bucks.

How much does a "Santa Rosa" Laptop cost?

But then you don't buy a Mac looking for Value for Money. Buy a Dell, Acer, HCL or Zenith instead.

Once you go Mac, you'll never turn back. :)

[MetalheadGautham]

actually, MACs are more like lifestyle gadgets. The Mac Boocs look only as good as some newer classy lappys. But they are still good because apple bundles really good apps for MACs, which are designed to completely blend with the system.

[aryayush]

But then you don't buy a Mac looking for Value for Money.Depends on how you define that phrase, actually. Macs are the most value for money computers IMHO. :)

[Yamaraj]

I don't like Apple's holier-than-thou attitude at all. Anyone complaining of Microsoft's systems and their EULA ought to take a look at Apple's hardware and software restriction policies. Mac OS is probably the only system out there you're not allowed to use inside a virtual machine. Pretty liberal, eh?

Sure it was different in the old days, when Macs used to come with one-eyed monsters (mice) and Windows 3.11 lookalike interface. There wasn't even proper multitasking support back then. It was expensive then, and maintenance cost was high.

You're not allowed to install OSX on a non-Apple machine precisely because it's "Yet Another PeeCee" now. They have resorted to using the same Intel architecture that was supposedly inferior to their PowerPC one - and yes, 10x slower. Ah, the propaganda!

I have nothing against people who want to buy Macs or even act like die hard fanboys. But it's very annoying when you bunch start acting snobby all of a sudden.

[gx_saurav]

At least in this domain (video editing/mixing etc.) the Mac is the winner and preferred by all. I don't say it, the industry does!

No, wrong. Have a look at the complete industry & you will find more companies using Windows based workstations then Mac.

It all depends on what application they use.

[x3060]

for compositing mac is a clear winner mate :-) . . after effects , combustion , fusion , flame , inferno . . nothing beats fcp . .

although fusion got a nice tracker and colour correction tool . its no way close to apples product . its a full fledge editing-compositing suite . nothing beats it in terms of features , fine tuning .

[abhilashkm]

Well..i guess the best OS is decided by what it does and where it is used...

Most of the OS do what it has to do..i mean.. be able to start ur h/w up and running and be ready to serve u. i think if this is taken into consideration, XP,Vista, Mac OS X 10.4, Mac OS X 10.5, Mandriva, Ubuntu and some other linux flavors are all good.

But, when it comes to using the resourcers(h/w) in an efficient way and making ur computer work at da pace dat u think (:D), and is bundled with packages and applications, has good technical support to back it, has good protection against da malware, spyware, trojens n worms, and has good stability and which helps u work on n on n on without freezing and give u enough freedom to add more applications, increasing the ability to take ur work, fun and life to a new level of comfort... then i guess there is only ONE clear winner... that is Mac OS X 10.3, 10.4 and 10.5... All 3 versions are too good. but da basic difference is da added feature in da newer versions and more n more new s/w being compatible wi da new 10.4(intel) and 10.5(intel)...

but all said...i love my Mac OS X 10.4 PPC for all my work and fun...

and i come to dis Windows XP only to play my FIFA '07... well..hope EA Sports makes a mac version of my favorite football game... and wat else do i use my windows machine for? to install and test and get a feel of all the new linux versions which i get free from da web :D

but again, for any useful purposes i go for da Mac....well..as da advertisement says, It just works!! i had not been a Mac fan till i dint get to use it..da first time i used it, i just liked it...but within 2-3 months, i knew my life(and work n productivity) cud've been a lot different if i had bought it some years ago...

anywyas...well...my vote is for Mac always..

well..u can read dis page i wrote some time ago...(b4 10.5 was released and Vista was just been on) ...its da 10.4 v Vista ( u all have read it, but this is a personal experience)

http://abhilash.km.googlepages.com/page2

@Yamraaj
Mac OS is probably the only system out there you're not allowed to use inside a virtual machine. Pretty liberal, eh?

hey, that aint true.. Mac never restricts that. tho there is no virtual machine s/w released by Apple for Mac.. that is true.. Microsoft has a Virtual PC for Mac which is really popular among the mac fans. But after da new Parallels s/w came out, Virtual PC is kinda outta market cos Parallels has clearly better support and value for money (but parallels is only for new intel based machines)

and one more thing to add here...

Apple has been trying to move to Intel based chips some 5-6 years ago.. jus da same time they released da Mac OS X (move from da gr8 OS 9). the only reason is not cos of a PPC v Intel war in terms of technical perfection. PPC is made by IBM (and Motorola combined i guess in old days).. but anywyas, apple had once shown dat da new wave INtel craze was actually cos of the "Megahertz Myth" where most Intel processors had huge MHz and da PPC n the Sun's processors has not much.. i mean..they did a test infront of huge crowd and showed dat in doing a task its not just da megahertz dat matter...well..the electronics guys know a lot abt...anyways, i'll tell wat da apple guys explained..it was da pipeline architecture..for most of da tasks done by any comp, a shorter pipeline is da best, and dats y PPC n Sun's (Sparc I guess) had some 860MHz and intel had some 1.4GHz and well..intel's was pretty slow..and yea for video decoding n all longer pipelines wud be better if there is no "gaps"(forgot da tech term here) in b/w...

so..well..why did apple move to intel finally? cos it wanted to increase its market..well..in my terms, it wud be reaching out to customers who wants better computer!! Only Intel (and AMD) can produce processors in large volume (industrially) in shorter time..a nd apple needed such a partner.. and everyone knows who is bigger? AMD or intel? surely Intel is clear winner when u consider the mass production of processors..thas wat Apple needed and also to get the Apple Macs popular, more n more ppl shud use it. and there r lotta s/w ppl use in a Windows based machine which do not support a Mac.. so, a move to intel wud help those ppl to install a Windows OS in an Apple Mac and work.. and well.. Wat i believe is, once u r given a choice to use Windows OS n Apple Mac in da same computer, u will buy it.. and in course of time, when u use it,YOU(the windows lover) will be surely using more of Mac than da windows finally removing windows from da comp..

and well...da pricing strategy..apple had followed da same thign.. Skimming!! (da economics guys know dis)...they market da products wi a huge rate and capture da top economy group frm da buyers..(they make only a few number of products) and then, they come to da 2nd level of economy adn finally reach everyone... they will increase da no. of products and also introduce new products of same type to spread it all over da market

da classic example of dat is an iPod.. and also how da pBooks n iMacs became a craze among the Media professionals!! Apple is growing guys!!