Please suggest a Lin friendly PC config + 3 Distros (multi boot) for School Students

[din]

Well, this may be lil strange topic, but I need your help !

For the people who read only the start and end words in a post - Suggest an economic Lin friendly PC config + 3 Distros (multi boot) for noobs.

Details .. Warning - Please keep a cup of coffee near you. Very long post :)

I am going to visit my high school after 15 yrs ! WOW. I am really old it seems. My school is in Wayanad, thats a remote area in Kerala state. When we were there, we had no power, no computers and internet ? Never even heard of that. Most of my classmates were from poor / avg families. But things have changed now. They have a computer lab with 15 PCs or so and a Smart classroom (with sattelite linking, instant interatcion etc etc). OK, ok, don't get angry and remind me this is open source section, no need of explaining too much on schools etc lol.

Ok, coming to the point.

I am sure whatever I do will not be enough for the school as I consider my school as the best in the world ! I am not in a position to offer something very big or costly. Anyway I am planning to get them a PC (need not be high end at all as it will be used for educational purposes only). I think just like PC = Windows for some, Processor = Intel pentium for them rt now ! Never even heard of AMD. Even the teachers. I am planning to buy an AMD, so first

1. Please suggest an economical Lin friendly PC config
(yes I know its wrong section, but can't split this topic in diff sections, please forgive me)

Now, I want to give em option to experiment on different distros. May be one rpm based, one debian based, one very user friendly etc. Like a multi boot option. So

2. Please suggest 3 (or 4 if possible) Distros which are different but useful for students to learn and experiment. I have these in mind - Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, then mint or Mandriva may be ? Planning live CDs already.

First, I tried multi boot lin long back, but that was just 2 distro and I am not even sure how many distro we can make multi boot without much complication. So please tell me whether it is possible, if so, which distros you suggest and if theres anything I should take care of while doing multi boot. Please keep in mind that there is no internet (I think so, now evenif they have it wil ldial up for sure) in school. So updating something online will be very near to impossible. Whatever I can install from my home and update - will be there. I want the students to experiemtn on different distros so they will know the difference, ease of use and they can make a choice of their own.

Do not want to offeer Win ! First - they can do most of the things in Lin and second - the curriculum is fully open source and lin. No win in Kerala schools now !!

Also I need to know something like Norton Ghost - for example, if the students experiment too much and theres no way to recover, something like ghost image to make all distros up again without much effort. Yes, I know thats not the right way, they should be able to fix it through Lin itself, but I am thinking of worst case scenario. Or ghost will cater for Lin partitions too ?

3. Please suggest some useful (I already got Edubuntu) CDs that will run on Lin which are good for educational purpose.

I am planning to go there may be after 3-4 weeks, so theres time. So please help me and suggest me. I love my school more than anything, so I want to give em the best I can. I am also planning to give them a very basic class / Q-A session on LAMP (if they know logic dev / programming basics etc) too. That I will manage.

Any other thing that you think which is related to open source / Lin and which are useful for high school students (age 13 -15) ? Please suggest.

Waiting for your comments / suggestions. Thanks in advance.

[Dark Star]

Ok . Here is my that will help you most :p Since you are 15 No gaming rig but still a dual core is recommended!

1. Cpu- Intel Core Duo E2180
2. Motherboard : Intel DG965Y or somewhah like that I mean 965 series with onboard Graphics.
3. 1Gb Ram . 512+512 DDR 2 667Mhz Kingston only!
4. Since you will be having more than 3 OS a 250 GB Sata 2 is recommended!
250GB Sata 2 Segate 7200.10
5. Any Cabinate you Like .. 500 Watt PSU. Go for Cooler Master.
6. 17" TFT LCD from Viewsonic or Dell.
7. Any Keyboard Mouse Kit you Like.
8. Sony Sata DVD Rw .. Sata only leave IDE atm.
9. UPS a good 1 from APC.. for healthy system!

All wil cost you under 27200 Rs. this is a good system . even if you plan a bi gaming you get 15+ FPS in games with low settings.. So enjoy..

As far as Distross.. Ubuntu Gusty [No doubt , A debian Based ], Sabayon 3.4f,[Gentoo Based] ,Fedora 8 [ Fedora based on .rpm packages]

Hope this helps :)

[mehulved]

You can get a decent AMD sempron based PC for <15K I believe depending on what hardware you need. But if you don't mind having an NVidia graphics.
As to distros check out this list http://www.livecdlist.com/?pick=All&showonly=Education&sort=&sm=1

Rather than backups go for dumb terminals or something. Get a decently powerful server and cheap clients. Serve all the contents via NIS/LDAP/NFS/Samba, whatever you need. There was a nice article on this but can't find it at the moment, unluckily.

[The_Devil_Himself]

@shashwat pant:thats a premium configuration dude.
my suggestions:
1.160Gb sata2 should be enough(i personally think 80GB would suffice).
2.cheap mobos like intel 946 should be more than enough.
3.a flat crt monitor(of course 17')
4.You can go for 1gb RAM as RAM is dirt cheap now.
5.Intel Core Duo E2180--best buy in this price range.


Do consult choto cheeta regarding configuration.He will help you a lot.

@din:You idea of using 3-4 distros to make students familiar with different flavours of LINUX is excellent.Keep it up.

[din]

Thanks a lot for teh suggestions friends.

@Shashwat Pant - Hmm, eventhough I want to give them the best, I can't afford that much :( I agree it is best config, but I do not think they will need that config. Thanks a lot for the suggestion but prefer an AMD based one.

@The_Devil_Himself

80 / 160 GB HDD is quite enough for 3 or 4 Distros ? No need of 250 GB right ?

[mehulved]

IMO, best would be to get a decently powerful PC and use it as a server, maybe one without a monitor, too. But go for one with a decent processor, a SCSI disk and decent amount of RAM depending on what you plan to use it for.

[The_Devil_Himself]

@din:yea man 160GB should be more than enough for 3-4 distros.250gb would be a waste of money.

And bose why don't you want to buy Intel based system.I think it will provide the best value for money.
Again do consult choto cheeta regarding hardware.


For your reference the following configuration is used in my LAB(Mostly programming and web browsing):
512mb RAm
40GB HDD
pentium 4 2.8Ghz
cd drive
17' crt monitor
600VA ups

We mainly use Linux(red hat) in our labs and it runs perfectly.

[QwertyManiac]

80 GB itself is more than enough for three distros, or even four. 20 each is more than enough. (With a common swap)

[The_Devil_Himself]

yea but the price difference between 80gb and 160 gb is not much(I think just 200-300 rupees).

[desai_amogh]

Ok . Here is my that will help you most :p Since you are 15 No gaming rig but still a dual core is recommended!



He is not 15 but he is visiting his school after 15 years..

I am going to visit my high school after 15 yrs ! WOW.

total cost he can afford for his pc is 15k .. he doesnt want gaming at all.. as its for school..
He is only looking for a AMD processor ... as nobody in his school has heard of anything besides INTEL..

once i got a powerful config under 12k from choto_cheeta with AMD X2 herez it

AMD X2 3600+ (1 MB) Rs. 2700/- + TAX
MSI K9AGM2 Rs. 2450/- + TAX (AMD 690V with ATi x1200)
2x1 (2 GB) DDR-II 667 MHz Rs. 3800/- + TAX
160 GB SATA-II Rs. 2000/- + TAX
Any Large Cabi with Zebronics 500 / ColorSit 500 watts SMPS Rs. 2000/-

Total 13648 Incl 4% VAT...
this data is around 15 days old.. so u can say its kind of latest..

u can use only one RAM stick of 1gb .. tht makes it around 1800 less .. pluss a monitor .. im sure u wont need a UPS as ur school LAB already has 15 comps on a centralized power system..
so tht shud come to somewhere around 15k approx.
hope tht helps...

[dOm1naTOr]

IF goin for AMD, dun go for ATI based mobo as the linux driver for ATI has many issues nd is hard to find.
Ill suggest this config:

AMD Athlon X2 3600+ : 2.4k [4000+ is for 2.8k] or Sempron 64 3000+ is for 1.1k
Asus M2N MX SE : 2.6k
1GB DDR2 667 transcent or Kingston : 1.4k
160GB HDD : 2.1k or 80GB for 1.5k
Zebronics low end Cabby with 400W : 1.1k
MS K/B nd mice : 0.7k
APC 500VA: 2.4k
17" Viewsonic non flt: 4.1k or 15" CRT for 3.3k
LG DVDRW: 1.3k
Creative SBS : 0.5k
-----------------------------------------------------------
17k with X2 3600+ or 14k with sempron, 80Gb nd 15" CRT

[infra_red_dude]

Din, first of all I must say that I felt very happy reading ur post about ur school and the desire to give something to it. Seldom, we find people like you :) Whats also commendable is that you wanna break free from the conventional computing components to make them aware of alternatives :)

Oh, mine's gonna be a looooooong post too! So plz keep coffee, tea, cigarettes, drugs (or whatever you use! :D)

1) I'd suggest you get an Athlon X2 with Virtualisation support (Plz goto the market for the prices).
2) A normal AMD/VIA chipset based mobo.
3) Minimum of 1GB DDR2 RAM
4) 160 or 200GB hard disk. I'd recommend an IDE hard disk, yes not SATA or SATA2. But if the teachers are competent enuff to install OS on SATA disks (which can be problematic sometimes) then you can go in for sata/2.
5) Standard KB, Mouse.
6) A 17 inch CRT monitor (yes, put these bucks you save instead of buying a TFT on RAM if you can; get 2GB)
7) A Standard UPS
8 ) A Geforce 6200 128MB (min.) GFX Card (Let them see Beryl/Compiz!)
9) DVD-RW drive
10) Good quality and affordable PSU + cabinet (look in the Hardware section)
11) Standard Speaker Set

This config shouldn't cost a bomb for you and yet perform well!

Now for the OS thingy. Dual Boot Between Debian and Sabayon.

1) Use Sabayon to show them about the eye candy in Linux (for all those Beryl/Compiz effects and other eye pleasing things)
2) Use Debian as the base OS. Install VirtualBox/VMware server/QEMU (or whatever you wish).

Let Debian be the boss here! Install Ubuntu 7.10 (when released) and OpenSUSE in the virtual machine. That way they'll learn to work on a Debian based distro (Ubuntu) and also an RPM based distro (OpenSUSE).

After you install, update and ready the OSs (make sure all the OSs are updated and haf all the necessary software installed including codecs etc.) then just burn the Virtual Machine Images on DVDs and give it to them. In case they fiddle around wid something in Ubuntu or SUSE, the teachers can jus delete the VM image and copy it from the DVD to restore it to Din-default settings! :D

That way, the students can experience the eyecandy (Sabayon), get a taste of Debian (Ubuntu) and also an RPM based distro (SUSE). So they haf everything and also not worry about screwing things up! That should wrap it up :)

[dOm1naTOr]

it makes more sense to go for an nvidia 6100 onboard gfx mobo than egtting a seperate via board+ 6200 card.
M2nMX SE: 2.6k
but
Via chipset mobo: 2k + 6200 card 1.8k = 3.8k
but the performance remains somewhat same if not into gaming.

Dun go for via board if not getting a card too, coz nvidia has excellent linux driver support nd its better to use ny nvidia display adapter, be its onboard or an add on card.

[infra_red_dude]

I suggested 6200 as I'm not aware how well the nivida 6100 is supported in linux. If its well supported then thats a very good option!

Thanks for pointing it out, Arvind! :)

[The_Devil_Himself]

nvidia has very good support for linux.Almost all nvidia gpu have linux drivers but it is not so the case with ATI,So ati graphic solution(onboard or dedicated) should be avoided.

[infra_red_dude]

Yes, its true that the driver support for nvidia is better than ati. But I'm taking about a particular product here: 6100 IGP. Its not a stand alone card but is an IGP. There are (or were) reportedly some issues wid this IGP and AIGLX. I dunno if its been fixed. Hence I expressed the doubt. Someone needs to confirm that this works widout any probs.

On the other hand a 6200 is separate GFX card and is well supported by all distros. There are no second thots about it. Hence I recommended that.

Can someone plz confirm if the nvidia 6100IGP works properly wid all distros wid the driver supporting AIGLX for Beryl/Compiz?

[ravi_9793]

Why this thread is in "open source".I think it better suit in "Hardware troubleshooting"

[dOm1naTOr]

i said dat coz i thought all nvidia GPUs has unified drivers[except 8]. The same driver for 6200 can be used with 6100 or 6150.

[praka123]

stay away from ATi & VIA for graphics.any nvidia card that suits will do.so the cheapest soltn is intel mobo&processor with onboard graphics.intel very well supports Open Source and Linux.
AMD too is on the way,but the benefit will be for future.

use a single distro.i think more distros and multibooting will be a mess! also that in a school lab.let them accustomed with basic debian/gnome and terminal.
may be to show off eyecandy etc one system may be used.

Hope the teachers will be versed in basic linux.

afaik there is no norton ghost like for Linux. diskdump (dd or dd_rescue) can backup whole partn as img.make sure u have to have a partition of same size or slightly higher for dd to work for whole partition.

but there are lota apps:
http://www.linux.org/apps/all/Administration/Backup.html
In UNIX,generally ppl trouble shoot the problem unlike format/reinstall routine as in windows.so find someone in teacher's who is really interested in Linux.

Debian bible is a good book for your schools lab.u can get it in mindstorm.
also provide them some rescue cd's for linux.giyf.

[Dark Star]

Ok here is a quick view.. X2 3600+ Brisbane
AMD 690 G motherboard. from Biostar Company
1Gb Ram Kingston DDR2 667
160 or 120 Gb Sata 2 Hard Disk
Cabinate any you like. 450 Watt PSU Cooler Master Recommended !
Sony Sata DVD RW
Keyboard Mouse kit any you like
UPS worth 2k

[din]

@mehulved

Thank you. But the thing is I will not have access to other systems. I mean I won't be able to change anything in the lab. So a server-client setup is not feasible, that is why I opt for a standalone PC.

@The_Devil_Himself

I have no problems with Intel at all. But I thought AMD will reduce cost and another thing is, the teachers, students etc never heard of AMD, for them processor = Intel Pentium ! So I thought of giving them something new. If theres a good Intel pro which is not costly and support Lin, np, can go for it.

@QwertyManiac

Thanks a lot. Sure, if price difference is 200 or 300, will go for 160 GB HDD

@choto_cheeta

Where are you ? Come n help meeeeeeeee . LOL

@infra_red_dude

lol, nothing great in that. As I mentioned before, comparing to the quality, sincerity and the commitment of those teachers towards students and community, my gift will be very close to zero :) But I am doing something that I can.

Great, I think I will go for the normal HDD as per your suggestion. I remember one of the teachers told me he couldn't install Lin as his HDD is SATA. So I think better not to make it complicated. Also, with the prices of ram shown in forum, I think I will definitely go for 1 GB DDR2 min.

Geforce 6200 128MB - That will be supported by all distros you specified ?

Just curious - why nobody is recommending Fedora as the rpm based one ? Its not good at all ?

@ravi_9793

I am sorry, but I apologized before your post ;) - In advance lol. As you can see this covers not only the hardware requirement, but other things related to open source / Lin.

@praka123

Thank you. As you already know, the default OS in schools in Kerala is Debian now. The dept provides CDs as well. So I want to give them something in addition to that / new. Thats why I thought of multi boot. That will also give a chance for students to experiment and try different types of distros. Meantime, thanks for the links and about the book. Will sure check it. And thanks a lot in advance for the downloading ;)

Additional questions

1. It is really tough to install Lin on SATA HDDs - at a noob point of view

2. Can I make different partitions and different swap for these 3-4 distros ? Or making swap as common is better ?

3. With the tempting price of RAM, I may go for 1 or 2 GB. So I think I can consider some gaming option for em as well. Any distro / site which is more into gaming (not exclusive gaming, but something (that need more RAM) that is good for students). Just a thought ..

4. Will there any major problems in multi boot (all Lin) ? Any chance of messing up very easily ?

Thanks again.

[mehulved]

I believe he/she would have tried installing an older version of linux. Any new version of linux supports SATA drives very well.
I have seen quite a few people come up saying "Linux is crap, the best distro red hat 9 doesn't install on my SATA drive but windows installs very well."

There's no real problem with multibooting unless you're going for shared /home,/boot and all. If you are doing that, the thing you need to look out for is that uid of different users don't clash between distros.

[infra_red_dude]

i think using virtual machines is a good option in case the kids mess it up. its the easiest way to restore the system. thats the only reason i'm suggesting only a dual boot and other distros as VMs. you can haf one common swap for both the distros.

1GB of corz is the minimum. if you can, then get 2GB.

regarding linux and sata, all newer distros will support it fine. however, i haf seen some people experiencing some probs wid sata drives. i suggested ide coz all probs (if any) haf been ironed out and there is no question of any installation prob. you can be sure on that.

as far as nvidia 6200 is concerned it is fully supported in all the distros i've suggested and give quite good performace wid beryl/compiz. i suggested a plain via chipset mobo for keeping the cost less (not the mobo wid onboard via gfx). i'm not sure how well the newer AMD chipset mobos are supported on linux (i've seen some people facing probs wid ACPI).

when it comes to games, its the type of game and its requirements that matter. since i'm sure you won't be running UT or Doom any distro is just fine.

imho, opensuse is a more comprehensive distro than fedora.

[The_Devil_Himself]

;)

1. It is really tough to install Lin on SATA HDDs - at a noob point of view
Most of the distros now fully supports SATA.So I think buying SATA is more advisable as SATA has definitely some performance gains.I can give you a complete list of distros I have successfully installed on my SATA hd without any problem.

2. Can I make different partitions and different swap for these 3-4 distros ? Or making swap as common is better ? Make different partition for every distro and let them use the same common swap partition.

3. With the tempting price of RAM, I may go for 1 or 2 GB. So I think I can consider some gaming option for em as well. Any distro / site which is more into gaming (not exclusive gaming, but something (that need more RAM) that is good for students). Just a thought .. I think some windows games have already been ported to linux(mostly the ones using OpenGL API's).correct me if I am wrong.

What kind of 'gaming options' you want?There are plenty of small but interesting games bundled with every distro.
As far as 2gb RAM is concerned I think it would be a waste of money.Tell me how many games have you seen which requires more than 1gb system RAM?You can spend the 1k saved on something else(something useful).

4. Will there any major problems in multi boot (all Lin) ? Any chance of messing up very easily ? There shouldn't be any IMO.But wait for some expert opinion.

Thanks again. No problem.You are doing something very noble and this is the least we can do for you.

[praka123]

multibooting-there is a problem of fsck running after some few boots.this is also when u boot each distro.i know tune2fs can be used to disable it.but in a n00b point of view multiple distro is a definite no no.you can show them some live-cd's with beryl or compiz enabled.isnt that enough?

@din:im d/ling debian etch 2nd DVD now.there is an update dvd also d/l`ded will take 4 dvds :? im running disk out of space with these d/l'ds.is it OK for me to write into some DVD media(i got tech-com)?
edit:im downloading i386 version

[din]

@praka123

I am really sorry for the trouble. I bought Moserbaer DVD and Sony CD last saturday but couldn't send :( . My fault.

Ok, if you are running out of disk space, please burn it. Np.

@The_Devil_Himself

Games - Yes, not hi-fi. As I mentioned, they are new to computers, new to linux. Something simple and basic.

And yes, if these small ones will work, then will not go for 2 GB RAM.

@infra_red_dude

Open suse has live and install CDs rt ? I downloaded one long back, but forgot which it was..

Lil confused now. If multi boot will create problem, then it will not be easy for em :(

@mehulved

Teacher tried install Debian in SATA, but thats 1.5 yr back, so not sure which ver it was. Also he was very new to Lin at that time, and may be thats y he couldn't.

[mehulved]

That happened cos the version before etch was released 3 years ago. And ofcourse SATA was unheard of then. Etch supports SATA without a hitch.

[infra_red_dude]

Din, you'll need to get the openSUSE live DVD. You can also install it.

[infra_red_dude]

So Din, what haf you decided? Did you enquire about the hardware prices?

[din]

Yes, got price list of most. Going to decide soon. Meantime, prakash helped me downloading the Distros, he will send it soon :)