Macs Really Do Run Windows Better

[aryayush]

Macs Really Do Run Windows Better
17-Sep-2007 @ 01:26 pm

Ever since Boot Camp appeared on the scene, there have been several comments about Macs being better Windows machines than Windows machines. The weird thing is it's actually true.

I won't lie to you -- I use Windows occasionally. It's important for me as a Mac developer to use Windows once in a while, because it's a fantastic lesson on how [to] do absolutely everything wrong when designing software. (For example, one of my top ten favorite Windows XP features is the one where it asks you to confirm your wireless network password by entering it twice when you join a network.) Read more... (http://stevenf.com/2007/09/macs_really_do_run_windows_better.php)

[Via stevenf.com (http://stevenf.com/2007/09/macs_really_do_run_windows_better.php)]


Awesome. An awesome read! And it is very well written. If for nothing else, read it for the humour. It is laugh out loud funny. :lol:

[narangz]

For starters, Windows vendors have discovered that they can save upwards of 1/1000th of a cent per unit by NOT INCLUDING RESTORE DISCS with the computer. What they do now is install the OS, and a hidden partition (6-10 GB or so) containing the restore data. Then there's usually some program you can run that lets you burn a restore disc your damn self if you want to.
to get system restore discs. I could also order them from Sony for TWENTY DOLLARS.


Yeah I hate this fact :mad: Perhaps its some drive against piracy :confused:

Well I always supported MS but this autopatcher issue has driven me mad.

You give Windows users a 255 character filename limit and this is what they do?

Wrong!!!!

I'm clicking away through the installers, trying to remember whether I just installed 01256339 or 12847214, so I don't accidentally delete one I haven't installed yet.

You could have renamed them into something which you could easily understand

There are at least three programs in the list (Microsoft Business Contact Manager for Microsoft Outlook for Business for Microsoft for Contacts for Microsoft, and not one but TWO entries for Flash Player 8) whose uninstallers can't be located when I try to uninstall them.

Sony's problem not MS problem

That's nerve-wracking enough, but then one of them straight up tells me "Installation failed", then, after I click OK to that, "Installation successful!"

Again Sony's problem :D

[aryayush]

The author did not say it was Microsoft's. Quit the fanboyism please, will you?

The article is about Macs running Windows better than machines from other companies such as Sony, Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. which are actually supposed to be Windows machines. It is not about Apple vs. Microsoft.

[narangz]

And have you ever heard about PCs which are assembled? Assemble a PC, install Windows from the disc & then install all the drivers from one single setup in the motherboard CD(Ofcourse if you don't have intalled separate graphics card or any other hardware. Then compare it with your Mac running Windows.

Fanboyism? Who's a die hard fan here? I wrote above that new policies like the autopatcher issue has driven me mad against MS. I wrote that because it was an individual problem of Sony. Come on man! Windows machines or PCs are not just Sony, Lenovo, HP etc.

[iMav]

the article seems toshow that sony vaio notebooks suck big time :)

[alsiladka]

I would like to make a few comment, but i hope no one considers me a fanboy of either Apple or MS.

I use Windows because some of the Windows Laptops are really light on your wallets.

1. I seriously Hate the OEM crap! I dont understand what they like in Norton to include the 60 Day trial or the 90 day trial. Dont they bloody understand that their laptop could not receive a worse start than with a Norton boot!! Any casual, non techie user is left thinking if what he bought is actually a fast machine or squib!

2. I seriouly hope the OEM's let you decide what all softwares to install. Only Dell comes close to this by letting you customize your system atleast a little when ordering it. They charge you a 1000RS just for a basic install ??!!! And if you would like to partition your system, which they highly recommend, you just have to pay 750rs more. Dell usa gives you a lot more choices on customization.

3. Apple systems are generally high end machines, which will result in faster windows than the normal machines. Also, getting Vendor specific machines would result in slower windows because of all the added crap. The comparision should have been made on an equally speced windows laptop with a retail windows installation.

4. He did not mention which machine was he using, becuase i was not aware of machines of today not carrying a burner with it. Nearly all the machines include a DVD burner.

5. Like the Bootcamp driver's DVD, nearly all the system vendors do provide a Driver's CD along with the motherboards. It makes the installations pretty simple, if you do not mind using old drivers. I generally prefer downloading my drivers from the original hardware makes, since the OEM's websites dont provide the latest drivers. He could have also used Windows Update for the drivers, since all the latest drivers are supported via Windows Update.

[goobimama]

First hand experience with a Sony Vaio. My friend bought one from the US of A. When I booted it, of course there were the usual Windows Pop ups like security, should I scrub your back? and all that nonsense and there were all these trial softwares popping up! And I'm thinking, Sony Vaio's are supposed to be like really good laptops....

Anyway, the reason he got it to my place was cause he didn't like Vista (can't argue with that) and wanted XP. So I boot from the XP disk and it does not detect the SATA HDD without which installation is a no-no. Now after posting here, I find out that I have to download some application, then the drivers, then "fuse" the SATA controller into the XP installation to finally get the thing running.

That's not all, XP is not fully supported by Sony...so even after installation, stuff doesn't work...

[iMav]

^^ news from redmond is that with SP1 downgrade will become easier than it is now :)

[entrana]

wow this is cool, now m$ is really gud for nothing, they cant even make their own systems better,

[iMav]

^^ its because of pressure form many vendors ... so they complied :)

[entrana]

true

[goobimama]

Whatever the case may be, the end user still has to bend down and...

[infra_red_dude]

unfair comparison but then, my god! did you ppl take the blog's post seriously??!! :D

[contactpraven2001]

that's true whatever is the force to make a really bad system in the end it is the user how have to suffer in case of m$ ........

[alsiladka]

wow this is cool, now m$ is really gud for nothing, they cant even make their own systems better,

Wov, the hardware vendors design crappy systems, but it is MS to blame. Now lets talk about fanboyism!! What is MS's fault over here, can you let me know?

[iMav]

arre if there is any word showing something bad alsong with Microsoft bole toh MS ki galti baki sab ek dum sahi hain ;) thats thinkdigit rules :) and if some 1 corrects them or puts things in perspective hes a fanboy ;)

[infra_red_dude]

arey yaar, why are you ppl getting irked up? :)

chill, how can you take such a lame comparison seriously???!!

[narangz]

^^That's right.... Its a lame comparison. It was more a humour post than a comparison :D

nd if some 1 corrects them or puts things in perspective hes a fanboy

Hehe :D

[aku]

@imav... well said man

[aryayush]

Point one: Microsoft is not to blame here. It is the hardware vendors such as Sony, HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc. who install all the trialware/bloatware that no one really needs and it just craps the system. It is their fault, not Microsoft's.

Point two: This is not an unfair comparison. The point the author is trying to make is spot on. Apple does not load their machines with any of the crap that other hardware vendors do. There are only two applications on an Apple notebook that are bundled as trial versions and none of these slow down the machine in any way. Uninstalling them is also a snap. When, and if, you re-install Mac OS X, you get the option of removing those applications too. Those two applications are the iWork and Microsoft Office suites. I hope you'll agree with me that these do not come under the category of crap and Apple does not bundle them for any monetary benefit or for the purpose of advertisement.
Apart from that you get Mac OS X (which itself has a host of useful built-in utilities that you have to install separately on Windows), the award-winning, semi-professional iLife suite, QuickBooks NUE, OmniOutliner and Comic Life. All are full versions, of course. You also get a set of DVDs for re-installing the OS and other applications, not a crappy restore partition.

Point three: Apart from the bloatware, the other thing that makes Macs (the notebooks, at least) better PCs than "PCs" is the trackpad. You just cannot beat the trackpad. There is no competition. Scrolling, dragging and right-clicking is a pleasure. :)

[shantanu]

hey hey ! no other BS discussion.. ! keep the thread to what it is.. ! please.. ! dont entend your Questions and Discussion to a level where it becomes fight !

Windows is good ! Microsoft is Better ! Macs are Best ! now please stay upto the nice level !

[gx_saurav]

2. I seriouly hope the OEM's let you decide what all softwares to install. Only Dell comes close to this by letting you customize your system atleast a little when ordering it. They charge you a 1000RS just for a basic install ??!!! And if you would like to partition your system, which they highly recommend, you just have to pay 750rs more. Dell usa gives you a lot more choices on customization.

You can always get a Windows Installation disk from somewhere like Vista DVD & enter your OEM key to activate, simple as that. :) Why bother with the crapware? Here is the thing, those crapware reduce the cost of Laptop or desktop. I won't mind having lods of crapware installed if it reduces the price by 5k, cos I know I will be reinstalling Window anyway.

You just cannot beat the trackpad. There is no competition. Scrolling, dragging and right-clicking is a pleasure. :smile:

Try playing games on the notebook

[aryayush]

Try doing that on any notebook's built-in trackpad.

Try not to indulge in conversation based on convoluted logic!

[infra_red_dude]

Apple does not load their machines with any of the crap that other hardware vendors do. There are only two applications on an Apple notebook that are bundled as trial versions and none of these slow down the machine in any way. Uninstalling them is also a snap. When, and if, you re-install Mac OS X, you get the option of removing those applications too. Those two applications are the iWork and Microsoft Office suites.......

...You also get a set of DVDs for re-installing the OS and other applications, not a crappy restore partition.
i agree to this point of yours. hafing a restore partition wid crapware and hence not bundling the media is the most foolish offering by any company.

Point three: Apart from the bloatware, the other thing that makes Macs (the notebooks, at least) better PCs than "PCs" is the trackpad. You just cannot beat the trackpad. There is no competition. Scrolling, dragging and right-clicking is a pleasure. :) i hafn't used a mac extensively so i'd refrain commenting on that one.

Try playing games on the notebook yaar, speak something sensible!

[iMav]

as far as the bloatware is concerned ... its business its not MS bundling it rather the company - HP; Dell; Sony; Acer who have tied up with the software providers like norton ... :)

[narangz]

You also get a set of DVDs for re-installing the OS and other applications, not a crappy restore partition.

Yeah I totally agree on this point... Creating restore discs yourselves suck! And paying to the manufacturer for ordering these discs is absurd.
Giving the discs alongwith the machine isn''t a costly deal. I have no idea why they are doing this.

Apart from that you get Mac OS X (which itself has a host of useful built-in utilities that you have to install separately on Windows), the award-winning, semi-professional iLife suite, QuickBooks NUE, OmniOutliner and Comic Life.

Well the PC manufacturers also bundle Office Trial but ofcourse don't provide any option during installation to de-select them. But when MS bundles such utilities with Windows they get slapped with Anti-trust cases and are called monopolistic.

Another point aryayush, is that Mac's cost a lot. And most people can't afford to buy that much costly Desktop PC's & Notebooks. Hence the performance of Macs running Windows is higher in those circumstances.

[iMav]

^^ all that is Microsoft's fault ... ;)

PS: not a question but an un-written rule of thinkdigit

[infra_red_dude]

as far as the bloatware is concerned ... its business its not MS bundling it rather the company - HP; Dell; Sony; Acer who have tied up with the software providers like norton ... :)
i guess everyone agreed to this point that its the manufacturer who is to be blamed not MS!

[gx_saurav]

Yeah I totally agree on this point... Creating restore discs yourselves suck! And paying to the manufacturer for ordering these discs is absurd.

This is India & you can get a DVD from anywhere, even the piracy market. Then u can simply enter your OEM key to activate Vista on the same computer.

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ when you are paying 25k+ for any system (desktop/laptop) why should anyone wanna download the contents of whole DVD or get it from a "piracy market". doesn't make sense at all. how much will bundling the media cost? i don't get the manufacturers foolish logic of not bundling the media. i understand, recovering from the recovery partition is easier than installing from the media. but i think they should provide both.

yaar, GX you are a senior member. at least don't post suggestions like these! ur intentions mebbe good, but its not less than promoting piracy. it mebbe perceived in the other way.

[╬Switch╬]

This is how I see it:
Even if you run Windows via bootcamp, it will run just as it should on any other assembled computer.Cause its not running through the mac OSX by emulation isn't it?
How does it make sense to say that just because a macbook has OSX installed in one of its partitions helps Windows preform better than it would otherwise.

[infra_red_dude]

How does it make sense to say that just because a macbook has OSX installed in one of its partitions helps Windows preform better than it would otherwise.
it doesn't make sense to say that and hence nobody said that!! :D you seem to haf missed something. read the article again. its all about crapware.

[gx_saurav]

i don't get the manufacturers foolish logic of not bundling the media. i understand, recovering from the recovery partition is easier than installing from the media. but i think they should provide both.

They should provide even I agree, but for most customers (Read: noob), recovering from a partition is easier then installation. All manufacturers provide a Installation CD/DVD for addition price, like Dell provides Vista Home premium DVD for additional $25.

[aryayush]

Another point aryayush, is that Mac's cost a lot. And most people can't afford to buy that much costly Desktop PC's & Notebooks. Hence the performance of Macs running Windows is higher in those circumstances.1. Even PCs costing in excess of Rs. 1 lac from other vendors come with the same sort of crapware that is mentioned in that article, those same "Intel Inside" stickers and that same restore partition. In case you did not notice, the machine the author used as an example was a Sony VAIO, a range that has a reputation of being even more costly than Macs are.

2. Steve Jobs once said, "There’s some stuff in our industry that we wouldn’t be proud to ship. And we just can’t do it. We can’t ship junk. There are thresholds we can’t cross because of who we are." Apple can also make really cheap machines but then they would have to employ these same dirty tricks that would ruin the experience for the customer and Apple "cannot cross that threshold because of who they are".

You see, it is all about the experience. The difference is: one company cares for it, the others don't. :)

[goobimama]

One more thing. Its not about Microsoft. They made the OS. No one is blaming them. At least I dont in this case. The case is the end user. Me. What do I get? Either I have to deal with the incompatibilities that arise from an assembled system, or the crapware that comes along with a branded machine. I dont care what they do up there, I want my things perfect down here.

And shame on you GX for supporting piracy...

[iMav]

gx isnt supporting piracy in any form ... u have already purchased ur 'key' so it doesnt matter from where u get the installation cd ;) coz the person u buy it from should provide u 1 if he doesnt u can get it from anywhere

[infra_red_dude]

They should provide even I agree, but for most customers (Read: noob), recovering from a partition is easier then installation. All manufacturers provide a Installation CD/DVD for addition price, like Dell provides Vista Home premium DVD for additional $25. then why provide optical drives? if company thinks that the user is incompetant to install OS then how can the company think that he'll be able to install some other software? how many user inputs do the newer OSs require? as for your "most customers (Read: noob)", since they are "noobies" they haf every chance of messing wid the recovery partition. at least in dell its not hidden.

this is stupid logic and $25 for media is crazy and exhorbitant. you pay for the OS then extra for the media!!! how much does it cost them to master the installation media in bulk??? i dunno why the companies don't get such a simple point.

[goobimama]

gx isnt supporting piracy in any form ... u have already purchased ur 'key' so it doesnt matter from where u get the installation cd coz the person u buy it from should provide u 1 if he doesnt u can get it from anywhere
Do you know how piracy works? If you buy a DVD from the local market, you are generating money in the sellers hands. This very money adds up and it keeping the piracy business booming. Yes, he is supporting piracy in some form. And that is not allowed on this forum.

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ yeah thats what i said. at least a senior member like GX shudn't gives advises like this. heck, he's also an MVP!!! :D

[iMav]

Do you know how piracy works? If you buy a DVD from the local market, you are generating money in the sellers hands. This very money adds up and it keeping the piracy business booming. Yes, he is supporting piracy in some form. And that is not allowed on this forum. gx isnt the 1 who is promoting it its the companies like dell and hp who are by not giving the installation cd along with the comp :)

[infra_red_dude]

arey yaar.. no use telling you!!!!

[iMav]

:D

[ax3]

@goobimama ......... right said frd ........ "PERFECT" is the word ......

@iMav ..... EGG-actly .........

[alsiladka]

then why provide optical drives? if company thinks that the user is incompetant to install OS then how can the company think that he'll be able to install some other software? how many user inputs do the newer OSs require? as for your "most customers (Read: noob)", since they are "noobies" they haf every chance of messing wid the recovery partition. at least in dell its not hidden.

this is stupid logic and $25 for media is crazy and exhorbitant. you pay for the OS then extra for the media!!! how much does it cost them to master the installation media in bulk??? i dunno why the companies don't get such a simple point.
25$ for a disk.

Dell charges around 1K for a basic install.
But here is the joke - they recommend that you go for a 2 partitions system. And you can get that for just Rs.750 more.

[goobimama]

gx isnt the 1 who is promoting it its the companies like dell and hp who are by not giving the installation cd along with the comp
Now what kind of a stupid statement is that? Seriously. There's no use arguing with you...

[iMav]

arguing is never of use :D ...

[gx_saurav]

And shame on you GX for supporting piracy...

Actually, you can also download Vista ISO from Windows Market place & try for 4 months legally. So, i m not supporting piracy at all. :)

this is stupid logic and $25 for media is crazy and exhorbitant. you pay for the OS then extra for the media!!! how much does it cost them to master the installation media in bulk??? i dunno why the companies don't get such a simple point.

Abe even I agree & hate Dell etc for doing this. Peace now :D

[goobimama]

Well could you provide a link to back your claim? Cause to me it seems like you have to "buy and download" the vista upgrade editions...

[aryayush]

Yes, you do. What he is saying is pure bullshit. One valid registration key only works with one copy of the OS.

[iMav]

now that is bullsh!t ... 1 copy of the OS doesnt mean a particular dvd or cd ... yaar arya kabhie kabhie toh tu kuch bhi bol jata hai :lol:

[infra_red_dude]

well its true that certain copies are locked. i've faced this in XP. my cuz bro has a toshiba notebook (i forgot the model). it was bundled wid XP. the disk got scratched and i tried to install XP wid my CD but his product key. it didn't work. he got the CD of a retail copy of XP from his office, but cudn't get it to work. so jus like you haf the oem royalty tag, the oem key won't work on all disks esp. on retail discs.

[iMav]

it totally depends though im sure contacting MS or toshiba shudv solved the problem :) which im sure u wudv tried but then tech support is weird ...

[infra_red_dude]

yeah obviously, since he's paid for it he shud get full support and he did get it. there was carry in warranty. so XP was installed at the service center wid their own XP disc. thats not the point. the point is that all keys won't work wid all copies. so i believe its always better to haf a recovery partition as well as the original oem media provided (by MS) so that we can haf a system sans crapware.

[iMav]

^^ i dont think its MS that doesnt give the cd along with the OS ... coz most of my frenz hav got cds and dvds and also some have asked and got them frm the vendors .... not sure whether its MS thats 'not' giving the cds or its the vendor

[aryayush]

You are the only one here who keeps dragging Microsoft into the issue. We are totally not discussing them here.

[infra_red_dude]

We are totally not discussing them here.
exactly, iMav!!! we are not saying anything. you are trying to defend MS even widout an issue!! :D

[aryayush]

What's that phrase... "inferiority complex". :p

[narangz]

I can't find Vista trial anywhere. This link:
Microsoft Products (http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/default.aspx?view=22&pcid=ea710cad-37b0-4975-bcd6-abfee19961df) has all the Windows products but trial is only available for Windows XP Pro.

What's that phrase... "inferiority complex".

Yes, Mac is inferior to Windows :D

Offtopic- Arrey Arya tu sota kab hai? Posting at 4:18AM. Wow!

[aryayush]

Aisa hi hai, yaar. When you live alone, you do get to enjoy some liberty. I like working at night. So, I just leave my Mac open and take breaks in between to browse the Internet. :)

[iMav]

What he is saying is pure bullshit. One valid registration key only works with one copy of the OS. wrong info

i was just trying to clear mis conceptions when u jumped in saying tis not lawsy like this or that ... inferiority complex for what ... the discussion was going where u were taking i was replying to stupid statements made by all of u :)

[gx_saurav]

What he is saying is pure bullshit. One valid registration key only works with one copy of the OS.

With Vista there is only one SKU. Means just one DVD. You can enter your OEM key which is tied to the hardware it was bundled with on a DVD. Simple....

You can move a retail key from one computer to another computer but an OEM key is tied to one computer only.

[Garbage]

With Vista there is only one SKU. Means just one DVD. You can enter your OEM key which is tied to the hardware it was bundled with on a DVD. Simple....

You can move a retail key from one computer to another computer but an OEM key is tied to one computer only.
can u please tell this thing to iMav ?? ;-)

[iMav]

^^ speaking from my own experience i have a hp which came with vista home premium pre-installed ... i have installed vista twice on it using 'another' vista dvd as i did not get any bundled dvd with the package :)

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ that has never worked for me in XP (as far as OEM keys are concerned).

[iMav]

:lol: worked for me

[infra_red_dude]

you haf a god-sent copy of vista :D

[gx_saurav]

^^^ that has never worked for me in XP (as far as OEM keys are concerned).
In case of XP, you need XP OEM disk from the manufacturer & OEM Key.

If u just have the key you can order an OEM CD. Else install using retail edition CD & call the tech support & give your old key & they will activate for u.

Microsoft solved this problem with Vista. Now one DVD fits all.

[infra_red_dude]

In case of XP, you need XP OEM disk from the manufacturer & OEM Key.

If u just have the key you can order an OEM CD. Else install using retail edition CD & call the tech support & give your old key & they will activate for u.
toh main kya bol raha hun bhai? main bhi toh wohi bol raha hun!!

[goobimama]

Where does one get this "Another" DVD? Please don't mention illegal methods..

[infra_red_dude]

this "Another DVD" can be downloaded off the net 2.6GB download or can be bought from the manufacturer by paying him $$$. Those are the only legal ways. And I remember someone saying that there's no link on MS' site to download Vista ISO. Lemme check it out.

[iMav]

i wasnt mentioning other means ... i had purchased another copy before i bought the lappy :)

the highlight on another was to tell that the dvd i used to install wasnt the 1 that i got along with the lappy :)

[goobimama]

Oh Wow! That's nice! So you buy a lappy, then don't have any restore discs so you purchase another copy just so you can use the lappy's product key...

[iMav]

^^ i bought the lappy after i had purchased a copy for my desktop :)

[Garbage]

^^ so, u r using ur copy for Desktop & Lappy also !! :-O

Is this legal ???

[goobimama]

^^ What he means is, he has a copy for his desktop, but his laptop didn't come with a product key. So he used his desktop copy, and activated it using his laptop key. Quite legal.

[shantanu]

no its illegal.. to use same copy on both machines !

[din]

iMav's lappy came with Vista pre-installed isn't it ? So assuming its legal copy, whats wrong in using different CD / DVD for installation but using the same product key that was there in lappy ? Not illegal isn't it ? Or I am confused ?

[ray|raven]

AFAIK OEM keys are supposed to be active on one installation at any given
point of time.Although his laptop came with its own legal copy,
using an OEM key thats already in use makes it illegal.

Regards,
ray

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ Yes, thats true. however, i don't think anyone here is talking about activating one 2 copies of windows with the same product key. what the discussion is about is using the same installation media but with the 2 different product keys.

[ray|raven]

Hmm,I Must have been mistaken,
Thanks for pointing that out.

Regards,
ray

[goobimama]

I thought the point of discussion was whether or not Macs run windows better :)

[aku]

^ yeah, thats what i'm wondering

[aryayush]

I thought the point of discussion was whether or not Macs run windows better :)Why would that be a "point of discussion"? The answer is pretty obvious.

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ haha.... :D

[i_am_crack]

offtopic:

Man.. believe me anything where mac and windows are involved. its kinda india vs. pakistan match...

5th Page and still on...

eBRo

[aku]

Who is India and who is Pakistan ???
lol!!!!

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Who is India and who is Pakistan ???
lol!!!!
India has more population than Pakistan . Therefore , Windows = India :)

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ hehe... what an analogy! :D

regarding the keys, i guess its pretty related to the topic. the article mentions an instance when he had trouble wid OEM keys on his sony vaio. so i guess the discussion was pretty much in the limits.