pc becoming gamer unfriendly

[Tommygecko]

the console gamer is more happy than a pc gamer.the games he buys he knows will run on his console and run well.however they have one problem,that some of the games they want to play may not be available on their console.this is where the pc gamers were at an advantage.but now it seems that after sometime games on the pc would run on a graphics cards with a specific manufacturer such as ati or nvidia.you can feel this trend as half life 2 and doom 3 have specifically been tweaked for ati and nvidia cards respectively.if this trend continues we might as well be facing the same problem as the console gamers in the near future.

[bharathbala2003]

@ tommy.. a console is totally diff from a PC.. a PC can do WONDERS in other stuffs that a console cant :D.. and PS2 or XBOX or GC etc are specifically manufactured ONLY FOR GAMING.. ITS SOUL purpose is to run games.. but a computers soul purpose is not.. and as far as Doom3 tweaks goes.. if u take a survey.. 90% of ppl prefer Nvidia GeForce and Ati Readon based cards.. that is why the companies give them full support.. n i don think a SIS or a Savage card could come anywher near a 6800 GT :wink:

[Serial_Killer]

I think pc gamer always wins bcoz ,u get more games compared to any console ,Graphics are awesome and FPS roxxxxx on PC

[infernus]

The PC wont become dead in gaming anywhere in the future. As long as people still love FPS games, there is no way the pc would die. Consoles suck at FPS games. Yeah, but still, I hate the dreaded upgrading cycle.

[Serial_Killer]

I dont understand why ppl say upgrading is painful ,Even the console ppl have to upgrade from ps to ps2 to ps3 ... , Moreover pc gamer can sell his old gfx card add some money and buy a new one so pc gamer is at advantage here.

[thegame_rulez]

I dont understand why ppl say upgrading is painful ,Even the console ppl have to upgrade from ps to ps2 to ps3 ... , Moreover pc gamer can sell his old gfx card add some money and buy a new one so pc gamer is at advantage here.
ya rite..how much wud you give for my xtremely fast (infact faster than a geforce 6800 ) geforce 5200..;);)
and btw ps2 ---->ps3 = 5-6 years
geforce 5200 ----------> geforce 6600/6800 = 5-6 months..:S
now watsupwidat..

[infernus]

I dont understand why ppl say upgrading is painful ,Even the console ppl have to upgrade from ps to ps2 to ps3 ... , Moreover pc gamer can sell his old gfx card add some money and buy a new one so pc gamer is at advantage here.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

So you keep spending 30k once in six months to upgrade your video card? Not everyone are born with a silver spoon in their mouth.
Console gamers upgrade from ps to ps2 to ps3, huh? Lemme see, that is about a 4+ years gap between em? And they cost 25k or so when they get released. That would buy you 3 years of playing the latest titles with no hindrances.

[thegame_rulez]

@ infernus..we seem to share some common thoughts..;) and i am sure many others will agree

[allwyndlima]

Lol.....i remeber i had started one same topic way back with the same intention but alas then realised that there was not end to it :wink:

Well now first to start off with Both are separate entities and have different purposes for itself.....where a persons sole purpose would just be to Play games and possibly watch some DVD Movies then u know what to go for a "Game Console" as the name itself suggests that its main priority being gaming.....btw a person who needs a Multipurpose thing like Browsing the net,Working on his Accounting stuff,listen to music,watch movies and yes of course play games.....in short needs all these things in a single package definetly looks no further and goes for a PC.....So ya see its clearly evident what choices u have for suiting ur own purpose....plus again if u wanna compare gaming levels on Pc and gaming consoles say PS2 then there are its Advantages and Disadvantages of its own Probably Ps2 accepts all games and Displays good graphics as the games made for it are perfectly made to run on it....whereas in case of a Pc thats not the sole purpose So one has to constantly loo out for Graphics card upgrade and other stuff but That gives a whole new Change and fleibilty for the PC as when a New game like Doom 3 is realeased they are first tested on its Graphics capability via the Use of Gfx cards and are hence tweaked accordingly to enchance its Performance and Graphics and make way for new Technology to enter in faster.....as for Consoles are concerned when once launched have to be tweaked in such a way that they atleats remain stable for sometime as there cant be any Graphic add-on in later stages :(

Plus when u say Doom 3 and Hl2 being tweaked for Nvidia and Ati cards it simply expands the rise in technology and resulting in a clear expansion for Hi tech hardware advacement....and so when u gotta have these games to achieve its sheer experience of realism (which i doubt Consoles now lack out) has to be done on the Best Graphics card upgrade and other materials as well :wink:

So the point of comparision is just Biased when it comes to Console and PC....both run on a diff purpose from itself and which one serves ya....well thats a matter of ur choice buddy!!!!! 8)

[Serial_Killer]

OK, firs thing U dont need a 6800ULTRA to play latest games ,a 9800pro is more than suffecient to play all the latest games at high settings .I know its costlier than console but not as much as u mentioned like 30k for 6 months and yeah as already mentioned PC has hell lot of other things .So IMHO PC upgrade is worth the pay .

[infernus]

a 9800pro is more than suffecient to play all the latest games at high settings.

But how much longer? In time more graphically intensive game engines and games would show up and you have to upgrade your pc all over again. And now the PCI-e is also making its entry. You have to upgrade even your Motherboard and Processors to get better perfomance. But it doesnt need to be upgraded as often as the Gfx cards.

Try to understand this:
In six months time, Nvidia and Ati would release another chipset. It will be the latest at that time. It is not badly required to play the latest games at that time, but a Geforce 6800 GT would suffice. So you would buy a Geforce 6800 GT at that time which would be priced less. You arent buying the latest. But still you are upgrading your gfx card every six months. Get it?

[Darthvader]

I dont think the current crop of games are better on pci-e cards. still have an agp so dunno no??

[infernus]

The current games arent better by that much on PCI-e cards. But AGP would die in 2 years or so and PCI-e will be common. You would have to dump your mobo with AGP to get a new one with PCI-e.

[allwyndlima]

But how much longer? In time more graphically intensive game engines and games would show up and you have to upgrade your pc all over again. And now the PCI-e is also making its entry. You have to upgrade even your Motherboard and Processors to get better perfomance. But it doesnt need to be upgraded as often as the Gfx cards.

Well actually ur right but the point being on how much of a hardcore gamer u are....if y dyn wanna compromise a single bit of Frame detail in Doom 3 then a biggest Gfx card upgrade is needed but then again if u are that regular kinda gamer and dun matter what all those detail and 3D Enigne means then a decent possible Gfx card could be sufficient :wink:

@darthvader....pal the Pci-E even though a new technology has a small but fair enough advantage over the Agp counterparts provided with a Good PCI-E Gfx card,good proccy and Ram they just blaze a good amount of FPS with all eye candy on and at high settings
Btw there was a Toms Hardware Review of PCI-E VS AGP cards where the PCI-E cards just posted way better frame rates for games then AGP ones (and yea the major game being Doom 3)....i'll just try ad get that link again posted by rohit 8)

Edit:Here got the link and see the results for urself
Pci-E Test: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041222/vga_charts-06.html
AGP Test: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041004/vga_charts-07.html

[infernus]

allwyndlima, that was a nice link you posted. It sure does show what a difference a PCI-e card can make, about 40 fps more to be exact, but i still doubt it.

[gamefreak14]

First and foremost - Playing games on a console is kiddish - admit it. No serious gamer ever plays with a gamepad. Theres no mouse aim. Its damn amateurish. Look closely at games made for consoles...It's not in-depth, theres no room for 'exploring'...
Second - From an indian context, most of us don't have the moolah to spend 20K for a gaming console.
Third - What are you ppl talking about?. A Geforce FX 5200 allows you to play any game in the market at a modest 3K. I'm talking medium res, with no bells and whistles. Unless you have a 21 inch monitor to play games - an 6800 GT will do you no good, other than giving you bragging rights. Right now, a 6200 AGP is available at a 100$. How about that?

[Serial_Killer]

ok u buy a 6600gt for 13k in india ,play all games at max for 1 yr then goto medium for another 1-2 yrs and if u want play at low at 1 yr more then buy ur nxt card ,so u'll spend 13k for 3 yrs or even more.Don tell me console gamers always play at max grafix cause ,ps2 gfx always suck and my 9800pro plays better than xbox .

[infernus]

First and foremost - Playing games on a console is kiddish - admit it. No serious gamer ever plays with a gamepad. Theres no mouse aim. Its damn amateurish

A gamepad? Kiddish? Aww, come on. The mouse is best only for FPS, Strategy, and RPG. This is the reason why all FPS games on consoles were a major disappointment. While the gamepad would work the best with fighters, simulation, adventure, driving(though not as good as Force Feedback Wheels) and everything else. If you ask me, The Gamepad is the best for all games except FPS, Strategy, and RPG. Then why do actually people buy additional controllers for playing games in their pc? Because it offers better controlling in some games.

Third - What are you ppl talking about?. A Geforce FX 5200 allows you to play any game in the market at a modest 3K. I'm talking medium res, with no bells and whistles.

The best part of Doom3 is lost when you play it in medium res, with no bells and whistles.

ok u buy a 6600gt for 13k in india ,play all games at max for 1 yr then goto medium for another 1-2 yrs and if u want play at low at 1 yr more then buy ur nxt card ,so u'll spend 13k for 3 yrs or even more

You think the gaming industry will keep pace with your card for so long? I dont think so. The XFX GeForce FX 5200 128MB was released in 13/02/2004. Now it cant even play Doom3 with above decent quality.

[Serial_Killer]

Yeah I agree with infernus on gamepad ,man simulations ,racing and third person stuff rockkkk on gamepad .I dont understand y did u call it kiddish ????

ABT the gfx cards, fx 5200 is released in may 2003 and even today u can play doom3 at lowest and hl2 on medium ,so its reasonable

[enoonmai]

I've been a PC gamer ever since 1996 and Wolfenstein 3D and discovered the joys of mouselook with Quake 2. Heck, I *still* play that game. :D A couple of months ago, a hands-on encounter with NFS Underground on the GBA-SP made sure I bought one of those. Last month, a freak, chance encounter with a relative made sure I got a PSTwo.

All my life, I was totally slamming the people who owned consoles and used gamepads and controllers for their games. I prided myself on being a true gamer, one that worked with mouseclicks and keyboard shortcuts. I still am pretty good with the latest games, not WCG Finals material, but still, good. I was of the opinion (and still am) that a PC owner has the best of both worlds.

He can use his PC for almost anything on the planet, and still, with a good video card upgrade, can play the best and newest games at ultra-high resolutions and all the eye candy. But the PSTwo changed all that.

I was ashamed that my GeForce FX5950U, for which I spent almost 25k, was performing pretty bad when compared to a friend's 9600 here. I've been playing NFSU2, POP:WW and POP:SoT on the PS2. Their PC counterparts are obviously great, no doubt about it, with ultra-high-resolution graphics and inherent 5.1 channel audio.

But the PS2 version is just as good, and for the first time in my life, I am actually surprised that I found it easier to play PoP on the console with the controller than with the keyboard and mouse. It was totally effortless!

And last week, I got down a 4 hour long session with Halo on the XBox, and I walked away with the opinion that the Halo: Combat Evolved I played on the PC totally paled in comparison with the XBox experience. In fact, I have spoken to a friend in Delhi who said he'd get me the XBox from Delhi cheap when he came into Bangalore in April.

I learnt a bitter lesson - If you're a true hardcore gamer, you will own a state of the art PC with a medium to high end video card, and both the PS2 and the XBox. It might sound stupid, but trust me, thats the only "feel-good" solution. Plus, what's the point of earning money if you cannot spend it on something that doesn't make you feel good? :D

[gamefreak14]

If you ask me, The Gamepad is the best for all games except FPS, Strategy, and RPG
You're right, I agree with you. That doesn't leave many games out there (in the other genres) to justify buying a console. But, a true hardcore gamer - needs both.
The best part of Doom3 is lost when you play it in medium res, with no bells and whistles.
You mean shadows? Fortunately for me, I had the option of running the game at all high @ 800 X 600. On playing @ medium, what I noticed was a little blurry textures...and oh..those shadows. Now how many of you would keep staring at shadows? First thing I did was disable shadows. The game was so dark, it didn't matter whether you played at high or medium, IMO.
The XFX GeForce FX 5200 128MB was released in 13/02/2004. Now it cant even play Doom3 with above decent quality.
It can. And does. You've no idea of the number of people playing D3 on fx 5200s. It's mainly the reason for it to be the most popular budget card, now overtaken by the 6200.

[enoonmai]

Man! :shock: Turn off shadows in Doom 3? That's just as bad as playing the game with the speakers/headphones off. Part of the scary aspect of the game, heck, most of it, were the scarily leaping shadows.

[infernus]

You're right, I agree with you. That doesn't leave many games out there (in the other genres) to justify buying a console. But, a true hardcore gamer - needs both.

Whose talkin about 'Gamepads justify buying console' thingy here? I said that coz u said gamepad was childish(bleah, choke)

You mean shadows? Fortunately for me, I had the option of running the game at all high @ 800 X 600. On playing @ medium, what I noticed was a little blurry textures...and oh..those shadows. Now how many of you would keep staring at shadows? First thing I did was disable shadows. The game was so dark, it didn't matter whether you played at high or medium, IMO.

:shock: Im with enoonmai here.

It can. And does. You've no idea of the number of people playing D3 on fx 5200s. It's mainly the reason for it to be the most popular budget card, now overtaken by the 6200.

Lemme know their framerates at High Quality, 1024x768, 4x AA, 8x AF, 32 bit . Now dont come and say, 'I meant at low settings". I already said the best part of Doom3 is lost when you play it in medium res, with no bells and whistles.

[Tommygecko]

i think you guys have failed to grasp my point.i meant not that the pc is worse than a console,but that if these games being tweaked goes on,one day you will find on the game packets,under system requirements-"only runs on an Ati" or-"only made for nvidia",just like in the console "for the ps2" or "for the xbox only" etc.then even the pc would be divided into sub categories.

[gamefreak14]

Man! Turn off shadows in Doom 3? That's just as bad as playing the game with the speakers/headphones off. Part of the scary aspect of the game, heck, most of it, were the scarily leaping shadows.
Initally the shadows were quite interesting, and really helped to enliven the atmosphere of the game. I also noticed that shadows brought down the fps considerably, especially when there was a lot of action. A couple of levels into the game, it didn't matter anymore. The 'lights off - <monster growl/laugh> - shoot-kill - lights on' routine was getting OTT.
Lemme know their framerates at High Quality, 1024x768, 4x AA, 8x AF, 32 bit . Now dont come and say, 'I meant at low settings". I already said the best part of Doom3 is lost when you play it in medium res, with no bells and whistles.
If by "bells and whistles", you meant 8x AF / 4xAA then I guess you are right. But who said that such insane levels of AF and AA is mandatory to enjoying a game in its full glory? Hell, you must've been downright depressed if you've played the GTA series on the PC.
Well I don't have any benchmarks, but I did get 30-35 fps. I think its pretty obvious that an FX 5200 is incapable of rendering any game at greater levels of AA/AF.
The crux of this debate, I believe, is in how you choose to play games. Some cannot tolerate medium settings. They should get a console too, as it offers them the best of both worlds. The others are much better off with their pcs.

[enoonmai]

Yeah, I get that part about it being OTT, all right. I was desperate enough to use "killmonsters" in one level because I was so d@mn fed up of the imp walking around like Jim Carrey in Ace Ventura, hissing at me while I hid in a crawlspace and kept shooting at it with a pistol. :lol:

I know a good friend of mine who's a Doom fanatic of sorts, plays the game on a 5200 at low-res and still has fun with it, so I guess any card that can run the game is OK for some, and so very obviously, he wasnt using either AA or AF. (Of course, he's gotten an XBox now and is eagerly waiting for April 4, so I wonder who the joke is on now. Probably me, I am always the designated joker. :D)

But I can never see the point in spending 35k on a GPU and have it go obsolete in a few months. I would rather play the game at low settings for some time and then upgrade to a mid end card later when I can afford it. I've already been burned once! :D

[anubhav_har]

PC games are great and better than console ones....

[Hells_Fury]

Nowadays, most of the games are released for the PC and for the consoles too.

[QwertyManiac]

Consoles r now leading coz they have an all game experience...

but i think ps3 and futures will change that

PC is game friendly enough xcept for gphx card upgrade...

[shaunak]

Concoles have their advantages and pc have their advantages.

you do not have to upgrade ur pc every month (unless you want the very best in eye candy). so spare the visiuals and save your money. after all the concole cant give u a multiplayer xperience can it?[unless u live in the usa or uk and will shell out for xbox live.]