Ubuntu: Taking Over the Linux World

[praka123]

Ubuntu: Taking Over the Linux World
Last update: 07-11-2007
Submitted by Matt Hartley (http://madpenguin.org/cms/index.php/?m=search&opt=search_proceed&nnet_author=1&nnet_catid=-&search_conjunction=AND&keywords=TWF0dCBIYXJ0bGV5&page=1)
(Column) - This just in: it's an Ubuntu future. Think I'm nuts? Take a cold, hard look around. Even though I'm a fan of other delightful distros like Damn Small Linux and Puppy Linux, there are other honorable mentions, such as Fedora (a fine distro) and OpenSuSE. At the end of the day, however, Ubuntu has won the hearts of common users. And that is not my opinion, this is simply a matter of numbers.
Now, for the biggest question: do high numbers mean that Ubuntu is the best distribution out there? Some will argue that this is an impossible point to make, as each person has different needs from their distribution. But for the sake of this article, we will be considering the average user, not the Slackware crowd, who is obviously much more comfortable within a command line environment than mainstream users.
Stable, Reliable, But Are They Moving Forward Quickly Enough? The three closest competitors to Ubuntu would have to be Debian (obviously, look at the development tree), Fedora (has a strong community) and SuSE (strong backing from Novell).
Debian, while strong and definitely dependable, has a much slower development cycle than many of us would admit. Then we have Fedora with strong functionality (dual displays, anyone?), but it has been plagued by numerous community relations issues that have been cited time and again within the various articles in the ever-growing inter-web.
Then finally, we have the strong OpenSuSE distro. SuSE 10 was strong, 10.1 was not too impressive, and I have not had enough time to take their latest release for a solid test drive, so I'm holding back on any opinions on that release until I fully test it. Like Fedora, SuSE was a solid base for the enterprise user. However, it still left a number of home users going back and forth with their ease of use, as Ubuntu has demonstrated.
There are plenty of areas where Ubuntu has fallen flat on its face, but for mainstream users, it has completely eclipsed the competition. And this remains a sore spot for many Fedora and SuSe users. My words to them: get over it, it's a different market.
RPM Based Distros Are Simply Not Popular With Newer Users. One final thing that I would like to point out is that with the exception of PCLinuxOS (based on Mandriva), RPM based distros are solid, but unfortunately, they lack hand-holding for beginners. Okay, now why do you care? Because the growth of Linux as a collective whole is simply not happening with your distributions any longer. Yes, you will always have your existing collective. But at the same time, recruiting new users will become increasingly more difficult with each passing year.
Now, please, feel free to politely disagree with me. But at the same time, I believe that recent events surrounding Ubuntu speak for itself.
In the end, I'm interested in to see if the flash-bang of beginner friendly distros will outlive the slow growth stability of Fedora, OpenSuSE and Debian. Each of these are great distros. Actually, I might even venture to say that I have never met a Linux distro that I didn't like.
Debian distros rocks because of dpkg + apt.Open Suse would have embraced dpkg and apt will gave Ubuntu a good competition.

[infra_red_dude]

hmmm.. i disagree to one point here made by the author. he saying we are talking about 'average user' and then says 'debian is a competitor to ubuntu'. all the 'average users' i've ever known or seen run away at the mention of 'debian'!!! so i don't see debian as a threat to ubuntu's popularity.

according to me the 3 distro are: fedora core, opensuse and pclinuxos.

btw, i dunno how old is the article.. coz the author says he's tried open suse 10 and 10.1.. but the current version 10.2 has been there since quite some months... he should've tested that and then written the article.

[praka123]

Debian aint that tough even Debian Etch got a GUI installer.those earlier installs are really tough as upto Debian Woody.Debian Sarge got new Debian installer(CLI) and With Debian Etch,the current stable-got a gui installer.I am using Debian Sid and i'd say most of what Ubuntu offers or more(full debian repo) are with Debian Sid/Lenny or Etch.Yes.Debian got a GUI installer and bleave it or not rpm package management su*ks when compared to dpkg.man dpkg will let know .

[infra_red_dude]

of corz thats true... but there's a misconception amongst 'average user' that debian is not for them.... and its not easy to convince them. we know its not difficult to install debian now. but most of the average users shy away at the mention of it. thats all i'm referring.

regarding dpkg and apt-get.. wel... its simply beats everything out there.... and has no competitors!!! :)

[gxsaurav]

regarding dpkg and apt-get.. wel... its simply beats everything out there.... and has no competitors!!! :)

I guess you have never seen or used the Slax Module approch. Thats the best.

Or Mac OS X apps

or Windows Installer 3.1 based installations

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Debian distros rocks because of dpkg + apt add to that synaptic and it they make a killer combo .

regarding dpkg and apt-get.. wel... its simply beats everything out there.... and has no competitors!!! :) yups , the best in the Linux world :)

[infra_red_dude]

I guess you have never seen or used the Slax Module approch. Thats the best.

Or Mac OS X apps

or Windows Installer 3.1 based installations
errr... no i've never seen or heard about slax or windows.. what is that? must be something really good.... modularity and windows installer 3.x... hmmm... must be a ground breaking technology for sure!!! :D :D

ps: i think we are talking about the 'average joe' here in the 'linux world'!!! :)

[kalpik]

Thread title: Ubuntu: Taking Over the Linux World
And GX posts:
I guess you have never seen or used the Slax Module approch. Thats the best.

Or Mac OS X apps

or Windows Installer 3.1 based installations
Why dont we just keep the discussion to Linux only? Or is it THAT hard for you to _not_ troll?

[praka123]

add to that synaptic and it they make a killer combo .

yups , the best in the Linux world :) there are better ideas for eg:Autoinstall which is not adopted.
and
Conary package manager which is used by ipath and Foresight Linux.
but they dont take off well.This system only updates those specific files in packages which need to be updated, in contrast to other formats like rpm and .deb which download whole packages.
Conary is a free software (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software) package management system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Package_management_system) created by rPath Inc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPath) and distributed under the terms of the Common Public License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Public_License).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conary_%28package_manager%29#_note-0). It focuses on installing packages through automated dependency resolution against distributed online repositories (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_repository), and providing a concise and easy-to-use Python (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Python_%28language%29)-based description language to specify how to build a package. It is used by Foresight Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresight_Linux), Oz Enterprise (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Oz_Enterprise&action=edit) and rPath Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPath).
Conary updates only those specific files in packages which need to be updated; this behavior minimizes bandwidth and time requirements for updating software packages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conary_%28package_manager%29

[aditya.shevade]

openSUSE 10.1 sucks.... 10.2 is way too much better than that.... And even after my complete devotion (I am not sure that this is the right word), to SUSE, I must admit, the new users are being attracted by Ubuntu....

[praka123]

Suse offers kde=eyecandy better than most distros.but now pclinuxos has taken over with Mandriva+suse as root?

[aditya.shevade]

But will it (PCLinuxOS) be able to keep holding? I mean, SUSE has been around for ages and looking at the changes made from 10.1 to 10.2... I would love to see what happens....

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Suse offers kde=eyecandy better than most distros.but now pclinuxos has taken over with Mandriva+suse as root?
Personally , i use Kubuntu n PCLinuxOS , both are great eye candy and with KUbuntu's debian base , package management is a breeze :)

there are better ideas for eg:Autoinstall which is not adopted.
and
Conary package manager which is used by ipath and Foresight Linux.
but they dont take off well.This system only updates those specific files in packages which need to be updated, in contrast to other formats like rpm and .deb which download whole packages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conary_%28package_manager%29 I find apt + synaptic sufficient , coz i've developed quite a proficiency in apt-get on CMD so i acn easily use it , i don't have the time(nor the zeal) to learn another package manager :)

[gxsaurav]

First off all, Slax is a linux. I hope you know?

Second, Ok fine...I will not talk about other OS.

But even in Linux, the package management of Slax is best.

[iMav]

well slax is a really good and light linux distro also the modules are very good and easy to install ...

[rocket357]

But even in Linux, the package management of Slax is best.

Someone's never used portage... =)

[infra_red_dude]

Someone's never used portage... =)
again.. i've seen 'average joes' shunning gentoo jus coz they heard somewhere that there are no binaries.. everything has to be built from source. but the beauty of emerge is only known to those who actually use it! :)

there are numerous misconceptions floating around when it comes to linux and new users....

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Someone's never used portage... =)
well , the first time i tried installing gentoo , it wouldn't run on my monitor , problem ? my monitor supported max 1024x768 , gfx card supported max 1280x1024 , gento switched to max resolution supported by card without checking the monitor !

u see , these are small things which i think , gentoo overlooks and is thus in my opinion is not meant even for the "power user"

[rocket357]

well , the first time i tried installing gentoo , it wouldn't run on my monitor , problem ? my monitor supported max 1024x768 , gfx card supported max 1280x1024 , gento switched to max resolution supported by card without checking the monitor !

u see , these are small things which i think , gentoo overlooks and is thus in my opinion is not meant even for the "power user"

I find it odd that I've run into this problem as well, only I seem to ALWAYS hit this issue when dealing with precompiled distros! (Gentoo hasn't ever done it to me because I write my own xorg.conf...dont' get that option with precompiled systems, usually, until after the install...and even then you can use xorgconfig or the like to restrict the max resolution *before you launch X for the first time*!!)

Point is, when the software does all the thinking for the user, then the user turns into a whiner that can't accomplish squat without a pretty GUI and an army of tech support specialists (not aiming that at you, personally, Zeeshan...I'm simply pointing out my thoughts on it). That's what I like about Gentoo...you can't BS your way through it. You either have the determination to learn it, or you don't. End of story.

[The Unknown]

First off all, Slax is a linux. I hope you know?

Second, Ok fine...I will not talk about other OS.

But even in Linux, the package management of Slax is best.
I don't think so. I have FC-6. As you know Redhat uses YUM which was earlier known as Yellow Dog Updater: YUP. They made some changes and made it yum. Now to enhance yum there are GUI tools like pirut (bundled with install), yumex (download from WWW) and many others. The package management is very easy even without GUI (i mean using Terminal).

[rocket357]

again.. i've seen 'average joes' shunning gentoo jus coz they heard somewhere that there are no binaries.. everything has to be built from source. but the beauty of emerge is only known to those who actually use it! :)

there are numerous misconceptions floating around when it comes to linux and new users....

Well said...there's nothing more frustrating in the world than a competent, intelligent user who could *easily* learn Gentoo or Slackware (and benefit from the amazing package management or administrative capabilities), but they don't because "Oh God, I have to *learn* something?!?"

Oddly enough, I ask the same user a question concerning their Mandriva install, and they're quick to brain-dump the gory details of the latest bug list...

I don't get it.

[gary4gar]

good this will promote sprit of competion and lets hope some consolidations also takes place :)

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Well said...there's nothing more frustrating in the world than a competent, intelligent user who could *easily* learn Gentoo or Slackware (and benefit from the amazing package management or administrative capabilities), but they don't because "*leOh God, I have to arn* something?!?" According to scientists , Sanskrit is a much more logical(and thus better language) than english , so i suggest why don't you *learn* the sanskrit language and make all your posts in sanskrit rather than using the crap english :rolleyes:

[din]

@Zeeshan

I have no clue what you meant. What I understood form the posts of Infra_red_dude and rocket357 is that

People who *can* experiment with Linux also not trying to do so coz they think they have to learn ! So they prefer the easiest ways.

For example, someone whos a shop keeper, we can't expect them to install softwares using text mode or finding the dependncies etc (I know exceptional cases, one of my friends a medical rep used to do kernal recompile, another person working in a bank, became an expert in Debian in Cochin, Kerala)

And regarding the happiness we get form experiments, nothing can be compared with that. I remember using RH 6.1, it was very tough to get the graphics mode, I could get it somehow, then it was like a dream to play movie in Linux, I tried a lot and (of course I didn't do any programming) and finally it worked. Even that made me so happy and I can imagine teh satisfaction we get when we do experiemtns with Linux.

Not everybody can do it, but those who can, why being lazy ? I thought thats what they both meant. Please correct me if I am wrong.

And yes, if he talk in Sanskrit, you will understand it ? But learning sanskrit and gettin a lot of knowledge is something bad or sounds funny ?

[Zeeshan Quireshi]

Well i HAVE experimented with quite a lotta linux distros and still continue to do so and have over the time developed a proficiency in degian's package management system , and that's what i said .

but rockets357 seems adamant on proving to me that Gentoo portage is better(i'm not saying it's better , or it's not , what i'm saying is that i can do my work with dpkg and apt so i'll try others when i need to do so)

[praka123]

there is a big difference btwn ports and dpkg ;)

[infra_red_dude]

And regarding the happiness we get form experiments, nothing can be compared with that. I remember using RH 6.1, it was very tough to get the graphics mode, I could get it somehow, then it was like a dream to play movie in Linux, I tried a lot and (of course I didn't do any programming) and finally it worked. Even that made me so happy and I can imagine teh satisfaction we get when we do experiemtns with Linux.
sniff... sniff... how true :)

i remember those dayz when i was new to linux... but i cud get along well coz i had sufficient dos knowledge and hence wasn't scared from using the CLI.... i had an Xwave XG sound card wid fm801 chip... somehow managed to install alsa and get it working... those dayz alsa wasn't bundled alongwid most distros... when i got Xwindows working first on my trident 9750 then on my nvidia tnt2... the joy of running sawfish smoothly... when i first compiled kernel for my needs... memories galore... :) those dayz only the 'fortunate' group hardware was kinda fully supported out of the box.... so getting linux to work completely on my 'not so fortunate hardware' was a big achievement for me!

well this ad perfectly fits in here:

xwave xg snd card - rs.5000
tnt2 agp - rs.9000
17" monitor, non-standard resolution - rs.15000
db15 bus joystick - rs.3000

getting linux to work the way you want on this hardware - priceless! :)

there are somethings money can't buy... for everything else (read windows, mac) there's mastercard!! :D :D :D

obviously u need money (credit card hereh..) to buy windows which has full driver support for all for this hardware!!! ;) hehe....

but things haf drastically changed.. ubuntu has always worked for me in modern times. no matter what hardware i've thrown in, it has detected if not installed the drivers automatically (i can do it!). linux has come a long way.. and yes i must say: linux is taking over the world :)

[praka123]

i think old times OSS sound system was the only way.alsa was yet to get developed as did by Jaroslav Kysela ;)
Also XFree86 was too messy :?:

[infra_red_dude]

^^^ yeah rite.. ask me... i know the importance of alsa!! :D :D

one thing i'd like to say... no matter how noob friendly and easy it becomes, but the charm of linux is still the terminal! :) nothing can ever replace it!!!

[Pathik]

@infra wen had u tried linux the first time and make all that h/w work?? I mean in wich yr? Nd wich distro???

[din]

Very true.

While at IBM training we were given terminals to access AIX and everything was in text mode. Chat, wall, the vi (no, we knew about pico after a long time), it was fun.

Then it was RH text mode boot. That green n black text with [OK] right to every line, then rpm-ivh, install, make, that was so nice.

I never recompiled a kernal, never done any system level programming, but text mode was pretty nice. As infra_red_dude said, "charm of linux is still the terminal"

Oh well, diverted form thread. Anyway gonna install Linux tomo (after a long time !) Will try Ubuntu first :)

[infra_red_dude]

the year was 1997 (when me was abt 12 years old or so).... the distro was red hat linux 5 (during that time, rhl was the only distro easily available)... i was so so so happy to get X windows and fvwm95 working on my system wid a trident vga adapter :) doubly happy to get the sound working... :) :)

then after that i upgraded my machine.... got a p2 machine... tnt2 and other stuff... getting linux completely work on it was hard.. but not harder than what i'd already accomplished!! :) the distro was slackware....

going thru man pages, guides etc.. made me use the CLI for installing and setting up hardware and various other things.... i used to think the batch programming that i did in dos was cool....but i was amazed at CLI's sheer power (bash)...that was the time when i fell in love wid the CLI... and i maintain this love even to this day.... :)

whether ubuntu takes over the linux world or linux takes over the world.. i'll never let go of my beloved CLI :)

@din
very true... even this day.. i prefer working wid vi over gedit or kate!

[rocket357]

According to scientists , Sanskrit is a much more logical(and thus better language) than english , so i suggest why don't you *learn* the sanskrit language and make all your posts in sanskrit rather than using the crap english :rolleyes:
Interesting...and yet, when one individual posts in "regional" dialect, people look down on it. Why don't you all post in Sanskrit, then? Just curious...

And if it means that much to you (I'd determined that learning the language wasn't a requirement because of the fact that these posts are predominantly English) I'll learn Sanskrit. I've been meaning to learn another language, honestly...just haven't devoted much time to it =) Just don't flame me if I say something retarded like "I am a Jelly doughnut" haha

but rockets357 seems adamant on proving to me that Gentoo portage is better(i'm not saying it's better , or it's not , what i'm saying is that i can do my work with dpkg and apt so i'll try others when i need to do so)
Sorry if I came across wrong...

Portage has it's pros and cons...just as any other package manager. If you're happy with dpkg and apt, then by all means, stick to what you like! *I* like portage because of the sheer control it gives you. Apologies if I came across rude...I didn't mean to imply that dpkg is "lesser" or whatever...if it floats your boat, use it.

Edit - My post was NOT directed to people who are actively experimenting and learning! You've stated, Zeeshan, that you've experimented with numerous distros...this is good! I'm not saying that "to be a competent Linux user one MUST learn portage"...that's complete non-sense and would make me out to be a complete elitist (which I don't consider myself to be). Besides, portage has gotten "soft"...haha.

Seriously, I didn't mean to offend you, Zeeshan!