Is America better than India??? [Archive]

sknowonweb

03-02-2006, 11:55 PM

Few years back media shouts "All politicians , ministeres must be graduates so that literates can handle the nation well, in an constructive path".
But the corrupted ones Got redhanded are literates and one is a Foreign univ's degree holder.
so its not the politicians part but the Peoples part.In a republic a citizen must get his rights as he is been governed by his representative and must aware he is an essential element in making the nation function properly.We accept our modern slavery position in different formats and just not took any big risk, The result is , everybody around us feel safer not to do any new thing.Then from where can we rise.
It is a shame till the nation has evil sides of the republican vote in Bihar and cannot save its Northern and North western states.Remember our security forces attrocities in manipur.(Thes kind of things drives us close to US !).
It is supposed that IIT's supply the nations top brains the will to serve for the nation,to start Commercial enterprises, to win the world with Knowledge. But it is a handful from IIT who do these things.
But any how the labour population of US is lesser than INDIA and it can be considered as Akkaraikku Ikkarai pachchai.("The land on the other side is always greener")

One better way to improve india is to stop viewing these masala films,avoi tv,Buy morethan one newspaper and never grab news but interpret knowledge, follow ur own rule,be honest, step out , Walk.

gxsaurav

04-02-2006, 12:47 AM

All comes to a few factors

1) The government employee are paid less salary, due to which they are forced to take bribes, after all the general usage items cost a lot, how many of u ever tried to find the cost of LPG Gas, or Wheat

2) Really really bad tax laws, they are not changed from 20 years, still using the law of that time, while the purchasing power of money is now changed a lot

3) We, The people, those who want to make some difference, & change something are either hailed back or never given a chance

Remember, a corrupt officer is also a human being, he takes bribes cos he needs money, he has desires, even beyond what he should have

nix

04-02-2006, 01:23 AM

the problem lies with the youth of india...none of us wants to enter politics. i know its hard to start from a scratch and it involves dirty work, but somewhere, we have to start. ppl like us in this forum can make a difference if given a chance. but those ppl just wont let anyone else in the chair except their own sons or relatives. exactly whats happening in my city.

__Virus__

04-02-2006, 05:15 AM

Dint read all the replies. We can surely be like them..keeping in mind it will never happen. Kill all those bast@rds, those politicians, those corrupt a$$es and surely ur post wud be worth ur point. Sad to say, its impossible.

rajesh_nk22

04-02-2006, 08:23 AM

NO, everything is possible, each of us can make difference. Have u read Kalam's speach, then u will understand what u can do for the country. Just by blaming others, we cannot make progress.
Its rightly said "Jab jago tabhi sabera", just keep this in mind, we have to change, "ye hindustan pahale soneki chidiya tha, aur ab bhi hai" , yaha kisi chij ki kami nahi hai, bas kami hai to soch ki, vicharonki, aur jisdin ye hame jan jayenge, tab hame duniyaki koe takat rok nahi sakegi.

hack expert

04-02-2006, 08:59 AM

well everything is indeed possible but the case in india is we do not follow the golden rule :Action speaks louder than words

all people do is talk about changing ,do this do that , netas give speeches not from their own mind but those prepared by their assistants .watz the use all energy spent only for talking .

well change can surely be brought if we try and i mean try not just talk about trying

QwertyManiac

04-02-2006, 11:57 AM

Exports. USoA has loads of mines, farms, etc and exports a huge lot it. thus thier currency is valuable. India has started booming and is evident from bush's statement of China and India as rising competitors. Thus i hope we develop sooner than expected by most of us.

and one more thing... stop reading/writing this stuff here and move on.. do your work.. not to sit and worry about india.. jus contribute to it :p

__Virus__

04-02-2006, 04:24 PM

NO I bet its just not possible. Listening to speeches and having that adrenaline rush until his speech finishes and then back to same routine. Its just like going on saying I can fly without wings, I have heard a speech by XYZ. Agreed, we all can make a difference, indeed very big difference but on words. What can we, as individuals do towards growth of country?? Pay our taxes? B loyal ? and what can we do as individuals? Can we eliminate that corruption, hell no. Can we drill this in peoples mind that we not only have to think for one cause, but India as a whole? hell no. Not 1 not 2 each and everyone from top to bottom has got real corrupt asses doods...it wont make ANY DIFFERENCE by just thinking. Just a very very small example. Right from a watchman in govt hospitals to wardboys in high schools and colleges to those hawaldars in police stations to those acps to those hr's in offices to those vp's to those managers to those circle inspectors...a$$oholic ba$tards. Everyone wants there work done, tend towards bribary..get their work done and what more do they need. Truth is hard to digest and facts just cant be denied. U might start ur loyalty towards India, I may start doing so, it just wont have any effect on those greedy lamers. How many cases havent we seen??? the stamp scam where in a booty of 32000 Crore was involded,,,, god damn those arzes 32000 crore??? what not cudhve been done with that amount??? Just think of all those umemployeed youths, how much benifit they wudve gotten with that money if govt had been easy on spending money on them. See we cant really question that scamster, the money got down the drain with his involvement and if not it wudve drained down the govt way. Just think about it..how much money dont they have?? cant they just comeup and spend it for good?? Another good example.... When there is a conferences to be held by any Politic Party, how much money dont they spend on all thoe guifications of roads ans ****?? cant they just spend it on unemployement and poor people??? what not wud they get??? its just like investing and earning later..they just wont do that..y wud they?? they are happy and thats it..Taken the example of america, will india ever provide free and compulsary education til class 12th??? simple answer no..so no education no labour and hence no technicians and hence digging own grave..Point in all this cr@p is that, we just cant be like america. Who wudnt want to??

esumitkumar

04-02-2006, 05:49 PM

Thats not true .. Infact the BRIC report mentioned that India's population will be a boon for development as India will have more working population than China and US in 2050 ..

BUt tell me it wasnt me ....if population is boom..then why countries like China are putting a stop to it.....I think you should see crunch of resources due to population.....what a bad infrastructure is there....

Some boons of more population :lol:

1. Every time you go to railway station to buy a ticket.....you find hundereds of ppl waiting despite 8-10 ticket windows........

2. Ever seen railway general compartment ......thousands of ppl fighting there.....for a place :shock:

3. Decreasing land space and water ........ no basic amenities

No power in villages..even in cities like Pune
we are getting power cut of 3 hrs..

This list is endless...............

You know resources increase by 1,2,3,4 that is AP...while population increases by 2,4,8,16,32,64 assuming each one has 2 children (while this is not true for most ppl .....who are illiterate) ........ so

IS POPULATION A BOON ?

(I agree India has largest working young ppl due to its population and most ppl are doing sasta labour work for videsis in IT, call centre etc )

__Virus__

04-02-2006, 07:12 PM

[quote]
BUt tell me it wasnt me ....if population is boom..then why countries like China are putting a stop to it.....I think you should see crunch of resources due to population.....what a bad infrastructure is there....

Some boons of more population :lol:

1. Every time you go to railway station to buy a ticket.....you find hundereds of ppl waiting despite 8-10 ticket windows........

2. Ever seen railway general compartment ......thousands of ppl fighting there.....for a place :shock:

3. Decreasing land space and water ........ no basic amenities

No power in villages..even in cities like Pune
we are getting power cut of 3 hrs..

This list is endless...............

You know resources increase by 1,2,3,4 that is AP...while population increases by 2,4,8,16,32,64 assuming each one has 2 children (while this is not true for most ppl .....who are illiterate) ........ so

IS POPULATION A BOON ?

(I agree India has largest working young ppl due to its population and most ppl are doing sasta labour work for videsis in IT, call centre etc )

:|

sujithtom

04-02-2006, 09:19 PM

What we see of India today is not the effort of the goverment but the Indians itself. The government is corrupt for ages and has contributed very very less to India.

it_waaznt_me

04-02-2006, 11:28 PM

Heh .. I cant find link to the relevant article by Geffry Sachs .. I'll type it when I reach home .. The essence is India will have more working population because of China's one child policy ..
And to the next part of your post you are mixing issues .. You start with assuming that every person is a parasite and he doesnt contribute to his surroundings ..
I'll write about it when I reach home ...

Sophie Matthews

04-02-2006, 11:45 PM

When i 1st arrived in India... i found it it much more unorganised as compared to UK.
The IG airport was very crowdy...
i've been 2 US twice for travelling and found it 10x times better than India.
India has to work well to make its presence felt

techpras

05-02-2006, 07:15 AM

Population will be a boon for India, if that population resources can be utilizied or managed by government correctly,

siriusb

05-02-2006, 02:05 PM

One another contributor IMO is women. Our customs, rich and grand as it may be, tend to lock women away or restrain them in some way. Another contributor is the under-utilization of rural people, them being the major part of India. If we can tap into these two resources, we would be outta here in no time.

kato

05-02-2006, 02:58 PM

dude but rather than blaming our own goverment have we ever done anything to stop. Dont we also jump traffic lights and when there is some accident we blame traffic police man. We say goverment aint properly handling the litter and garbage problem but we increase its amount by not throwing or disposing it at the right place. We say all officials are corrupt tell me dont we only ask them sometimes if we dont have a ticket(for example) we tell them we will give u so much amount and pls leave us.

Edit: Even i dont follow wat iwrote and blame goverment

goobimama

05-02-2006, 04:10 PM

I prefer India to the US...I live a much better life than americans....

As in, at the end of the day, I am happy (no stress, worries..)

Ramakrishnan

08-08-2006, 03:10 PM

Corruption Corruption Corruption Corruption

Pathik

08-08-2006, 06:52 PM

INDIA rox....

nix

08-08-2006, 07:19 PM

the biggest problem we're facing today is vote bank politics. ppl attitude must also change...we must not be silent if something happens, we must be united and think whats the reason for our problems...problems like kashmir...why only certain ppl are targeted there? what protection should be given to them? the general attitude of majority of the ppl there is pro pak...how can we change that? we must act before its too late.

Sykora

08-08-2006, 07:31 PM

It is a gross injustice to blame the government for _anything_ and _everything_ that goes wrong. India has too large a population, and is too soft-hearted to impose rules like that which China did. Unless India makes a gigantic quantum leap in technology, living standards for the masses aren't likely to rise. But this leap is not likely to happen, because if there's any development, the US will get there first.

Take, for example, the satellite recently launched by the ISRO. It disintegrated over the Bay of Bengal some few seconds after launch. 4 _billion_ rupees up in smoke. What is the necessity for that when people are starving? There are far better uses for that money. If the money was devoted to more mundane things, the population would feel more motivated to do the right thing, and avoid corruption.

Right now, I feel that the US is a better place, and I'll stand by that opinion.

mAYHEM

08-08-2006, 09:21 PM

The main problem is people{even myself} know their Rights but not their Duties.

mediator

08-08-2006, 10:42 PM

I agree with @esumitkumar....But cant see why no mention of bangladeshi influx is there?? Cant u see how much bangladeshi immigrants are there in delhi alone? Forget abt Bihar etc.
If population of india is 1 crore than in that more 10000 are bangladeshi immigrants. Because of these stupid nomads......rape cases,thefts,bribery etc and situation in bihar and west bengal etc is deteriorating.
Govt is doing nothing for it!! And man cant see why it is having big debates on pesticide containers like PEPSI etc. It is doing nothing to ban ALCOHOL/pan masala/cigarretes etc which cause more harm and permanent disease like cancer etc. Yea pepsi shud be banned too. Thus we need literate leaders who can raise their voice for the real cause.
So many terrorist attacks in India delhi blasts on Diwali I think u all firgot it+akshardham+mumbai serial blasts+many more+sacking of Indian embassy in unethicak way. But what India is saying ? -> Peace,peace and peace! Stupid Indian leaders! They all shud be killed and then we'll have real peace. I think if israel was in our place then paki wud have been already be toast!! And during this govt u can see alone how much penetration the terrorists have done in armed forces alone. All we can experience is violence everywhere in this UPA RAJ !!
Thus u an see how much backwards India will remain if thing like this continue and leaders like Arjun Singh keep on cropping up. Its because of ppl like us because of which India is surviving. But we dont need just SUrvival. Do we?

What we see of India today is not the effort of the goverment but the Indians itself. The government is corrupt for ages and has contributed very very less to India.

Contributed? How can u say so? They only deteriorated thing. The only person I know who held India's repte to sky is "Atal behari Bajpayee" and dont forget Abdul Kalam.

arunks

08-08-2006, 11:36 PM

india blows

Nemesis

09-08-2006, 03:44 AM

Thus u an see how much backwards India will remain if thing like this continue and leaders like Arjun Singh keep on cropping up. Its because of ppl like us because of which India is surviving. But we dont need just SUrvival. Do we?

Just curious - how have you aided the survival of a country with a billion people?

Calling Bangladeshi immigrants stupid nomads is extremely condescending in my opinion. Sure they don't belong here and their influx needs to be controlled but "stupid nomads" is a very extreme term. Also, what Israel is doing is absolutely retarded.

Those wondering why India not as developed as the US, consider these:

1. The United States was formed well over 200 years ago
2. During World War II, while other countries took a lot of damage, the US rose to power because other than Pearl Harbor, the war wasn't fought on US soil.

When the US was already strong enough to be a major force in WWII, our nation was still under British control. Yes, a burgeoning population has slowed our economic growth but we're still growing at a rapid rate while countries like the US are experiencing a slowdown.

It's wrong to assume that only Indian politicians are corrupt - even politicians in the US are corrupt.

gaurav_indian

09-08-2006, 04:00 AM

Well if a country like India has got politicians such as Mulayam Singh,Mayawati,Lalu in their Parliament then how will the country be developed.Imagine a situation where Mulayam Singh or Lalu becomes the Prime Minister of India(I can't stop laughing) but the truth is it can happen in India.Some of the ministers in India has criminal record but still noone is stopping them from entering into the Parliament.

mAYHEM

09-08-2006, 07:55 AM

mediator

09-08-2006, 12:19 PM

Just curious - how have you aided the survival of a country with a billion people?

Calling Bangladeshi immigrants stupid nomads is extremely condescending in my opinion. Sure they don't belong here and their influx needs to be controlled but "stupid nomads" is a very extreme term. Also, what Israel is doing is absolutely retarded.

Those wondering why India not as developed as the US, consider these:

1. The United States was formed well over 200 years ago
2. During World War II, while other countries took a lot of damage, the US rose to power because other than Pearl Harbor, the war wasn't fought on US soil.

When the US was already strong enough to be a major force in WWII, our nation was still under British control. Yes, a burgeoning population has slowed our economic growth but we're still growing at a rapid rate while countries like the US are experiencing a slowdown.

It's wrong to assume that only Indian politicians are corrupt - even politicians in the US are corrupt.

How do u think the natio is being survived because of us?? Imagine if all ppl in the country were corrupt. Who wud obey laws? Who wud pay taxes? Who wud send their children to army? And if the situation were to be like this.....how many IT company u think wud have entered INDIA? Why do u think the situation in bihar is deteriorating? And lack of governance is there? LAck of IT companies there? Everyone wud have been thinking of himself then.
We think of our nation. But do the ministers do? Only votes matter to them the most.

Well calling bangladeshi immigrants like that is not extreme when they keep on doing illigal things here. Do u know how much unsafe areas with bangladeshi encroachments is? Have u ever been in any one area? Do u know how rape cases, murders alone have been commited by bangladeshi's here alone? And how in numbers these nomads have tied up with Laskar e teiba and all jihadi groups? Have u ever read reports from top military brass?

I dont think even the time taken by US to become so advanced will be sufficient for INDIA to attain the same status. How much u think India is developed today? U live in a metropolitan. Have u ever been to any remote area? Just any? There may be few exceptional cases. BUt what I mean is these areas are far from advancing to status of metropolitans. And as the population + development in metropolitans increase the influx from all the neighbouring countries and stated will rise to seek employment and better civic amenities. Because of which problems of water and electricity will further deteriorate , more unemployment will be there and thus more murders/thefts/rape cases etc.

Thus rural areas will remain like that if this situation persists. People there will remain ignorant and rulers like raja bhayia, papu yadav will rise again n again telling all sorts of lies to ppl their to become their heroes and gain power.

I know abt development of USas u stated but do u know how much developed India got in last 15 yrs ?? It cud have been better if all states were rising parallelly and there was support from Indian leaders too. I saw a major devlopment in India during "Vajpayee's" Era.........but all I see now is violence everywhere.

U urself stated that war wasnt fought on US soil. BUt war is bein fought on Indian Soil for tha last 20 yrs or more and still India is advancing. It cud have been much better if Paki wud have been given an ultimate response ending kashmir problem. U know how much India spends to protect Kashmiri's? U know how little revenue comes from kashmir as compared to other states? U know much economical and manpower loss terrorists are causing to the nation? But what leaders are doing? PEACE,PEACEPEACE!! While pakis are laughing on us because of this.
Israel created a heck of scene their because it 2 soldiers were captured or killed. But what India does? On average 1 Indian soldeir is killed I think each day on the kashmir front alone. And still what all govt does is announces a package of 1 lakh for poor soldier's family and thats it. I hope u getting the picture. If u have anyone from ur family in army then u wud know.

And what Israel is doing is not retarded. Why dont u call Iran retared for saying things like "that it will destroy ISrael" publicly. I appreciaTE Israel for showing such guts. Being so small it is keeping its terrorist neighbours to their knees. Israel was the only nation that provided timely supplies of weapons to India at time of KArgil. U forgot that ...didnt u?
I know it shudnt kill innocent civilians....but why dont u say the same to hizbollah and all the terrorists. After all they started it first.

If war breaks out between India and pakistan because of pakistan dropping bomb on India and 1000s of civilians dying.....will u ask Indian army not to kill innocent people in Pakistan? Yeah Indian army will not kill innocents there and will do everything to prevent that, but it wont bother also if innocents are killed. In a war this happens and u cant deny the reality.

Accept the fact, India willremain backwards if things like this continues. DO feel proud and happy after such incidents of reservation,mumbai blast etc and govt doing nothing for it?

Sykora

09-08-2006, 01:54 PM

It cud have been much better if Paki wud have been given an ultimate response ending kashmir problem. U know how much India spends to protect Kashmiri's?

I wonder what you'd say if Pakistan _had_ given an ultimate response, that it would not settle for anything less than a complete tranfer of Kashmir to Pakistan. More fighting?

The same can be said of India. Indians feel that Pakistan is stubbornly not surrendering. I suppose Pakistanis would think the same of us.

War was not fought on US soil, but enough of them were killed in the Pacific.

While pakis are laughing on us because of this.

How do you know? They probably want to stop the fighting as much as we do.

And what Israel is doing is not retarded.

Oh? They're targetting Hizbollah attack stations, regardless of whether the splash damage kills civilians. This isn't retarded?

I know abt development of USas u stated but do u know how much developed India got in last 15 yrs ??

There were people poor then. There are people poor now. If we can launch satellites, no we are not developed.

mediator

09-08-2006, 03:04 PM

I wonder what you'd say if Pakistan _had_ given an ultimate response, that it would not settle for anything less than a complete tranfer of Kashmir to Pakistan. More fighting?

The same can be said of India. Indians feel that Pakistan is stubbornly not surrendering. I suppose Pakistanis would think the same of us.

War was not fought on US soil, but enough of them were killed in the Pacific.

How do you know? They probably want to stop the fighting as much as we do.

Oh? They're targetting Hizbollah attack stations, regardless of whether the splash damage kills civilians. This isn't retarded?

There were people poor then. There are people poor now. If we can launch satellites, no we are not developed.

I cud make a little of what u r trying to say! neways lets go....
How do u think Pakistan will give ultimate response? It lost 3 battles to us and now is stinging us like mosquitoes. It knows it cant win in fair battle face to face, man to man. So is taking path of cowardice and attacking from behind.

I never mentioned of Kashmir's surrender, but the terrorist activities associated with it and its consequences. Neways u said it.......interesting........so lets talk abt it too.
U say India thinks pakistan will surrender kashmir. U know in last major battle which India won....it occupied half the pakistan! Forget abt kashmir. But it then returned it away because of UN intervention. My dear India only hopes that PoK is returned back. India also offered to pakistan to make Pok as permanent border and setle kashmir dispute. But they didnt listen. Only pakistan dreams that India will surrender Kashmir. As for India it has the capability to get back PoK whenever it wants. India can do it in less than day. I think ur undermining the capabilities of our armed forces. But it needs govt orders for that.

War was not fought on US soil, but enough of them were killed in the Pacific.

Yea enough were killed! But were american civilians were too killed? Were their building damaged? Was their homeland damaged in anyway except the soldiers killed? I think u didnt get the picture !!

Its very basic of civilians killed in war. Thats why nobody wants war. If it thats simple the n there wud not be kashmir problem in first place. Think abt it! If pakistan nukes or India nukes will it kill armed forces only?
I donno why are u so much against Israel. But if u think differently then u'll see that if Israel be behaving like these hizbolah terrorists then the whole of lebanon and all wud be toast already !! It is doing maximum to ensure minimum civilian casuality and all armed forces do so except US u can say.

I dunno what u tried to said abt satellites stuff........but making satellites do make u technologically advanced. Did that reduce the illiteracy? or the immigration or corruption India has?

Please try to classify ur thoughts, make some distinction between technologically advancement and illiteracy. India being advanced because of unique capabilities of armed forces and satellites etc is very different from being backward because of illiteracy in major parts and no control over immigration.
U can say that external image of India is rising, it is getting on ther verge of development.
But what abt internal image? What abt rural areas and farmers commiting suicide each day?
See the picture clearly. These are 2 different things!!

Sykora

09-08-2006, 03:57 PM

Please try to classify ur thoughts, make some distinction between technologically advancement and illiteracy. India being advanced because of unique capabilities of armed forces and satellites etc is very different from being backward because of illiteracy in major parts and no control over immigration.

I never said that the two are the same. I said that the government is getting its priorities wrong. It should be targetting illiteracy rather than creating new war machines.

Development of a nation is not just the improvement of its image to the outside world. It is the increase in standard of living for _everyone_ .

I dunno what u tried to said abt satellites stuff........but making satellites do make u technologically advanced. Did that reduce the illiteracy? or the immigration or corruption India has?

No, it didn't reduce corruption or immigration. So we should address those issues directly, instead of launching satellites. (If you don't get my point about satellites, see my first post.)

It knows it cant win in fair battle face to face, man to man.

What is a fair battle? Do you know what it is? Have you heard the saying "All is fair in love and war"? If both parties are desperate for the win, then they will use _any_ means to do so. Since that has not been done yet, it implies that the parties involved are not desperate to win.

I think ur undermining the capabilities of our armed forces.

Not at all. If India mounts a major attack on Kashmir, they will take it, as you say. But then, as you also say, the Pakistanis, being unable to beat India in a 'fair battle', resort to terrorism and will use their Nuclear Capabilities to hit India where it hurts most -- The civilian centers. If this happens, India will use its nuclear capabilities to attack Pakistan. Then US will jump in to help Pakistan. Then Russia will jump in to help India. We get World War 3.

All nuclear capable countries know that all it takes to start WW3 is one strike. One bomb dropped in the wrong place. India knows this as well as anyone else, so in effect, it _can't_ retake Kashmir.

Venom

09-08-2006, 03:58 PM

having more success in technological path is a clear and strong indication of growing literacy :|

Sykora

09-08-2006, 04:04 PM

having more success in technological path is a clear and strong indication of growing literacy

Granted, but that growth is too concentrated. What I mean is this.

Those people who get past school and university are those who are responsible for growth. What is happening is that this group of people are being trained in very specialized areas to increase their knowledge.

However, not enough effort is being done in getting the majority of people to this level. For that to happen, technology is needed. I'm afraid that leads to a catch-22. :\

ilugd

09-08-2006, 04:17 PM

As far as i see it, i think the chalta hai attitude is the biggest problem. How many of us have interfered and tried to correct people who are lazy, corrupt or unfair. Unless each one of us takes it upon himself to cajole and correct people to make better and efficient use of their time in a honest and (atleast partly) selfless way) India is going to keep hobbling along in the same old rut of redtape , corruption and indifference/injustice.

Some fool said once, ask not what your country has done for you. Ask what you have done for your country. Can any of us answer that?

I am calling that guy a fool, because I for one cannot answer that question.

Ultimate Z Fighter

09-08-2006, 04:28 PM

Definately

mediator

09-08-2006, 05:05 PM

I never said that the two are the same. I said that the government is getting its priorities wrong. It should be targetting illiteracy rather than creating new war machines.

Development of a nation is not just the improvement of its image to the outside world. It is the increase in standard of living for _everyone_ .

Agreed! But plzzzzzz not like arjun singh's way.

No, it didn't reduce corruption or immigration. So we should address those issues directly, instead of launching satellites.

Agreed!

What is a fair battle? Do you know what it is? Have you heard the saying "All is fair in love and war"? If both parties are desperate for the win, then they will use _any_ means to do so. Since that has not been done yet, it implies that the parties involved are not desperate to win.

Bhai y did u bring love in between? Neways thats what I said Pakistan is stinging us from behind and is engaged in proxy war. And our stupid leaders dont do anything even after so many attacks in India, with so many ppl dying. Each year atleast 100 ppl are killed due to terrorist strikes and many jawans die.
Tell me which is better : Continuing the present scenario with more than 100 ppl dying each year and govt doing nothing or striking their nuclear installations,removing the fear of their nukes and then dealing with these mosquitoes. Yea I know paki may use nukes. But it will be for once n over . But if it does use , then my friend I fear Pakistan wont be visible on world map. No more deadly strikes will be there in India.
Let them get the real impulse of India's aggression.

If this happens, India will use its nuclear capabilities to attack Pakistan. Then US will jump in to help Pakistan. Then Russia will jump in to help India. We get World War 3.

Hahahaha this was nice. Neways if pakis use nukes...then believe me not even US will be able to save pakistan. Their game will be over. Neways I think there's not much time left when India will be developing its own missile shield.

Satissh S

09-08-2006, 07:00 PM

ahh. .
India is way better than any other country for the simple reasons that we enjoy freedom at its maxim here and also i cant tell otherwise as its our country as none of us will tell, well except for a few annoyances like ignorant politicians its fine as its now.

Maybe we should look to help people by donating something or somepart of our earnings to places such as cancer institute etc., rather than debating here :|

btw i feel most of you guys need girl friends :p

Sykora

09-08-2006, 07:21 PM

India is way better than any other country for the simple reasons that we enjoy freedom at its maxim here

That's a biased view. If you're rich, you can have equivalent freedom anywhere.

btw i feel most of you guys need girl friends
...

Satissh S

09-08-2006, 09:27 PM

That is not, freedom can be got from satisfaction, not necessarily richness. A self-sustained life == freedom. self-sustenance != being_rich.

Sykora

09-08-2006, 09:29 PM

In today's world, you can buy almost anything.

ssdivisiongermany1933

10-08-2006, 07:17 PM

No body can challenge the supermacy of Indian defence of forces they are best in the world . Army can easliy kick away pakistan like that it did in 1965,1971 and 1999 . Kargil was won in less than two months . No army in world can win kargil in such a less time . The indian army has both goodies of Israeli and former soviet Army which defeated nazis .And talking about America , India is certainly better than America . indians can survive in any condition . And after 20-25 years america will survive on Indian charity this is sure . The collapse of America is just on the bay

Sykora

10-08-2006, 07:44 PM

You're proud of your country, and that's a good thing. Now let's see then...

No body can challenge the supermacy of Indian defence of forces they are best in the world . Army can easliy kick away pakistan like that it did in 1965,1971 and 1999 . Kargil was won in less than two months . No army in world can win kargil in such a less time .
*coughs* Indian defence forces are nowhere near the best in the world. The US has the largest defence budget and China has the largest army. US military technology is way ahead of Indian, and most other country's technology. If it _had_ to win Kargil, the US army would have won in far short a time.

The indian army has both goodies of Israeli and former soviet Army which defeated nazis .And talking about America , India is certainly better than America .
That was then. During WW2, the US were only beginning to come into their strength. Things have progressed a long way since then.

indians can survive in any condition .
Hardly. Indians are, after all, only human, like everybody else.

And after 20-25 years america will survive on Indian charity this is sure . The collapse of America is just on the bay
Perhaps, but most certainly not sure.

Like I said, you're a true patriot, but try to keep a grip on reality.

ssdivisiongermany1933

10-08-2006, 09:21 PM

by the way it took USA to win iraq more than one and half months .which pretty shame for US army

well go and see the homework done by india in 1971 , specially "battle of Longewala" in rajasthan . No army in world can do it .visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala and see the supermacy of indians at battlefield . Indian army under british played a imp role in both world wars .

Jai Hind

mediator

10-08-2006, 09:34 PM

Like I said, you're a true patriot, but try to keep a grip on reality.

*coughs* Indian defence forces are nowhere near the best in the world. The US has the largest defence budget and China has the largest army. US military technology is way ahead of Indian, and most other country's technology. If it _had_ to win Kargil, the US army would have won in far short a time.

coughs*
On contrary, I think u dont keep check on reality!
And the reality is Indian airforce is the best in the world...i.e NO 1... not by quantity but by techniques and quality. I think u dont read army reports and news papers. In therecent Indo-US joint air excercises......US pilots experienced embarrasement and inferiority and when they saw the techniques of Indian pilots and that too in MIGs ...forget about Sukhois and Mirages.
One american captain himself said that we need to do more.
And as far as experience is concerned Indian armed forces do have more experience than any other nation's armed forces. We have deserts,snows and all sort natural calamaties taking place in India. And at that time only armed forces increase their experience.
Yea I agree as far quantity is concerned India is in top 5....believe me!

Indian Navy also enjoys the almost the same repute as airforce but is not the best.Same for Indian army.....but size of Indian army is way greater than US.

And dont think India doesnt have anything far superior to US.
We have the DEADLY brahmos missiles christened "fire and forget missiles".

by the way it took USA to win iraq more than one and half months .which pretty shame for US army

well go and see the homework done by india in 1971 , specially "battle of Longewala" in rajasthan . No army in world can do it .visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala and see the supermacy of indians at battlefield . Indian army under british played a imp role in both world wars .

Completely agreed!

Sykora

10-08-2006, 09:37 PM

by the way it took USA to win iraq more than one and half months .which pretty shame for US army
I knew you'd say that. First of all, it was a hesitant move, because it didn't have UN backing. Secondly, it wasn't only a US vs Iraq battle, it also had British, Australian and Japanese troops. Coordination wasn't at optimum. Besides, what makes you think India could have done any better?

visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Longewala and see the supermacy of indians at battlefield
That was 35 years ago.

No army in world can do it .
That's a short-sighted statement.

Indian army under british played a imp role in both world wars .
That's it isn't it? They were under British command. Individually, Indians are brilliant. But there is some friction in doing things collectively. Actually, the Indian army under the command of the british had some battles against the Indian Nationalist Army, headed by Chandra Bose, which invaded India along with Japanese forces. So you see, Indians were actually on both sides of the line, and spent their time defending. For India, this is important, but in the world scenario, not very.

The USAF is the largest and most technologically advanced modern air force in the world, with over 9,000 aircraft in service and about 352,000 men and women on active duty.

The US have the best air force in the world...

Actually, Israel has the best airforce in the world.

I freely admit that The indian military is among the best in the world. I also freely admit that it has a very good chance of becoming the _best_ military in the world in about 10 or so years. I am also saying that such is not the case now. Moreover, it shouldn't be that way. Do you know what Pakistan's National Budget looks like?

Let me show you :
60% - Defence
36% - Academic institutions producing knowledge for use by defence.
4% - Human Development

btw, these figures are about 2 years old.

Certainly this is a very drastic situation. While India is not near as bad as this, there are better uses for money going into defence.

US can afford their monstrous $419 billion defence budget because :
1) Their's is a fully capitalist economy. Thier government doesn't spend money on things which the Indian government does here. Private companies take care of it.

2) They already looked after public amenites, before they became a super-power, and have more or less.

Once again, I'll say. I'm not saying that India is not a very strong country. As far as I know, it is. What I _am_ trying to say is that there are also other strong countries, some a bit stronger than India is.

Third Eye

10-08-2006, 11:13 PM

India is the 12th richest countey in the world surpassing russia n austraila.

mediator

10-08-2006, 11:56 PM

That was 35 years ago.

Are u an Indian? Coz If u were u wud have understood things pretty easily.
What @ssdivisiongermany1933 meant was.... that India was so brilliant and that too 35 yrs ago....that it kicked paki @rse with such courage and mind. And US cudnt do it today also with advanced weaponry. I hope u got it now. Neways I shudnt have to write it......u shud have understood such an easy point.

And some times u say US is best and sometimes ur saying ISREAL is best. Please have a static opinion.

I knew you'd say that. First of all, it was a hesitant move, because it didn't have UN backing. Secondly, it wasn't only a US vs Iraq battle, it also had British, Australian and Japanese troops. Coordination wasn't at optimum. Besides, what makes you think India could have done any better?

Hesitant move u say? huh, Us was after iraqi OIL from the start!! It was its intention to do so and u say hesitent? Neways US sent its troops first and when its dead soldiers counts started increasing then only it urged Nato allies to step in..........It also asked India....I hope u dont know that ! i wonder what u wud have said if India was also in the same line with NATO allies then. And u say UN backing? Cmon man u living in dreams? UN is a puppet whose strings are controlled by US alone. If UN be alive actively then Iraq wudnt be destroyed in the first place, vietnam war wudnt be initiated.......Pakistan wud have been isolated completely and transfer of tech like F-16 fighters and other weaponry be banned already. But still US pledges support to that terrorist country. What UN is doing? If such an organization existed in real world then there wud be no violence like such. UN is just for name. Wake up!!
And besides if US is that powerful why did it need help frm other countires on IRAQ?

That's it isn't it? They were under British command. Individually, Indians are brilliant. But there is some friction in doing things collectively. Actually, the Indian army under the command of the british had some battles against the Indian Nationalist Army, headed by Chandra Bose, which invaded India along with Japanese forces. So you see, Indians were actually on both sides of the line, and spent their time defending. For India, this is important, but in the world scenario, not very.

So u saying Indian army did not gain any experience then?? We were 300 yrs under british rule....didnt we learn ENglish? I think that was only +ve development under british rule.....like abolishing caste system,purdah,child marriage and promotion of women education etc etc!!

US can afford their monstrous $419 billion defence budget because :
1) Their's is a fully capitalist economy. Thier government doesn't spend money on things which the Indian government does here. Private companies take care of it.

2) They already looked after public amenites, before they became a super-power, and have more or less.

Agreed! And India cant achieve such status unless there is no interference from politicians......but who'll correct them and bring us outta that misery and badluck......thats a different debate!
But still indian economy is rising. An american businessman and head of some company himself stated that " Its amazing that In such a vast country with such diversity....people sell stuff @1 cent and still make comfortablle money"!!

Let me show you :
60% - Defence
36% - Academic institutions producing knowledge for use by defence.
4% - Human Development

btw, these figures are about 2 years old.

And please dont post old statistics. We are talking abt latest developments and so please do post about latest statistics of advancements. We are not comparing the mights of the country that used to exist 2 or 10 yrs ago !!
My point is please read military reports actively and not once in 2 yrs!!

And yeah PLEASE quote my points too in ur next post......I'm also actively debating here. I also like to see my name in others posts. U r the only one who is getting famous here and getting embedded in everyone's post for corrections.

Sykora

11-08-2006, 08:40 AM

Are u an Indian? Coz If u were u wud have understood things pretty easily.
I resent that remark. I am an Indian, but I have travelled the world and am trying to bring that knowledge to bear. We are having a philosophical debate, let us both try to refrain from personal attacks.

that India was so brilliant and that too 35 yrs ago....that it kicked paki @rse with such courage and mind
Granted.

And US cudnt do it today also with advanced weaponry.
On what basis do you say that?

And some times u say US is best and sometimes ur saying ISREAL is best. Please have a static opinion.
Opinions are anything but static. They keep changing as the information available changes. Israel is the world's most targeted nation. They have many open enemies, and must protect themselves. This necessity has led them to train one of the best militaries in the world. However, they do not have the money to spend on exhorbitant budgets like the US do, also, they cannot spend on military research.

Hesitant move u say? huh, Us was after iraqi OIL from the start!! It was its intention to do so
Iraq was a mistake. I agree with that. I was talking about the military execution of the campaign, not the reasons for it. If UN backing had been there, more force would have been used.

And u say UN backing? Cmon man u living in dreams? UN is a puppet whose strings are controlled by US alone.

The UN Security council has 5 permanent members, of which only one is US. If you'll remember, UN backing was withdrawn because France and Russia refused to comply. It is not completely controlled by the US. Talks are on to get India and Japan a permanent seat, but frankly, I don't have much hope.

If UN be alive actively then Iraq wudnt be destroyed in the first place, vietnam war wudnt be initiated.......Pakistan wud have been isolated completely and transfer of tech like F-16 fighters and other weaponry be banned already.
The UN has obligations to _all_ member countries, including India _and_ Pakistan. This means it cannot isolate Pakistan so easily, because then, by the same token, it must isolate India, and that's not too easy. Terrorists are a nation unto themselves. They give up their allegiances when they resort to terror. They may say that they fight for such a cause, but the country leaders do not share their views. If General Musharraf had openly admitted that he advocated the terrorist attacks on India, then the Indian army would have crushed them a long time ago, as you have pointed out, they have done before. However, the Pakistan government condemned the attacks on India, so they don't have any obligation to the terrorists. The point being blown out of proportion is that many terrorists are mingling in Pakistan. They may as well be in India, but they feel that they are being wronged by us, so they take extreme action.

Its amazing that In such a vast country with such diversity....people sell stuff @1 cent and still make comfortablle money"!!
Things cost less, we pay less, but we also earn less. It balances out. Why do you think many young professionals want to work overseas? Because the pay is more, and they have more money to spend here, where things are cheaper. That is changing though, as you said, the Indian economy is doing much better.

And please dont post old statistics.
Give me evidence to suggest that these figures have changed drastically in the last 2 years.

And yeah PLEASE quote my points too in ur next post......I'm also actively debating here. I also like to see my name in others posts.
eh...sorry.

Third Eye

11-08-2006, 08:42 AM

man US destroyed iraq and you think US can't defeat pakistan.many iraqis are happy with us coz they get rid of talibanis.US can defeat pak easily if india allowed US to fight from our side.

Venom

11-08-2006, 09:07 AM

And I thought US and Pak have an alliance!

Sykora

11-08-2006, 09:39 AM

US's involvement with Pakistan started off as a friendly agreement to counterract the Indian friendship with Russia during the Cold War.
Besides, India and US did just cement a Nuclear Deal didn't they?

paul_007

11-08-2006, 04:57 PM

NO ,NO , NO america is NOT BETTER THAN "INDIA"

mediator

11-08-2006, 06:48 PM

Ahhhh! I'm quoted......I'm pleased!

I resent that remark. I am an Indian, but I have travelled the world and am trying to bring that knowledge to bear. We are having a philosophical debate, let us both try to refrain from personal attacks.

Chillax No personal remarks here.

On what basis do you say that?

Basis? Us soldiers are dying day by day there, funds are being spent on armed forces stationed in IRAQ. Does US has that much money & precious soldiers to waste? It cudnt even complete one of its aim...either of getting oil or capturing OSAMA being so advanced militarily,technologically. Do I need to explain more?

Opinions are anything but static. They keep changing as the information available changes. Israel is the world's most targeted nation. They have many open enemies, and must protect themselves. This necessity has led them to train one of the best militaries in the world. However, they do not have the money to spend on exhorbitant budgets like the US do, also, they cannot spend on military research.

So Isreal doesnt have money huh? And they cant spend on military research? I ask u on wat basis u say that? I told u to read army reports or atleast read from newspapers or TV news channels.
Ur statement is contradictory. Israel being the most targeted nation needs to develop technologically advanced weapons and does so. i think u really dont read news. If it stops doing so...it will be toast I think. Israel doesnt have enough manpower but it has technology and advanced weapons. And does spends a major amount of money on military research. Because of that it has become one of the biggest arms suppliers to India also.And thats where the major amount of its money comes from. Please refer to "Reuters" and other reliable sources for detailed enlightenment.

Neways u dont think India is targeted also? If Israel is targeted by small terrorists, then India is targeted by the father of terrorists -> "Pakistan". I think Israel was formed at the same time when India was partitioned and got independence. So India has also been fighting terrorism and continous wars since then. Israel and India are both on the same front, facing same problem, since same era. So u cant say Israel is better just because its most targeted....India is equally targeted if not by OSAMA then by LET and mujahedins and jaahil jehadis. Atleast Israel has open US backing. But same is not true for India where US stands equally for that terrorist country too.

This necessity has led them to train one of the best militaries in the world.

U said airforce first. Now u say Military. Did a day changed statistics and ur opinion? Now please dont say army and airforce are same thing!

Give me evidence to suggest that these figures have changed drastically in the last 2 years.

In last two years both pakistan and India have increased their defence spending with India almost doubling its defence bugdet.
I know the acedemic and human development budget of PAki willremain constant as they dont have any other industry other than terrorism. Now dont say you have travelled there also and that also has changed.

The UN Security council has 5 permanent members, of which only one is US. If you'll remember, UN backing was withdrawn because France and Russia refused to comply. It is not completely controlled by the US. Talks are on to get India and Japan a permanent seat, but frankly, I don't have much hope.

Hmmmm.....you talk like scientist who needs proof for his theory and then only will believe. Now please dont ask examples....Unexplained phenomenas in India and Indian yoga gurus are big examples.
And what cud UN do if France and Russia supported it? Did Un do anything for poor Vietnamese? or for India except condemning the attack when it was attacked by pakistan on Kargil? Did UN allow IRAQ operation or stopped US from attacking IRAQ? France and Russia were against it! So why cudnt US be stopped? Why is it that if US attacks afghanistan to curb terrorism then its OK, but not OK when India tries to push itself in beyond Line of Control? Why is it that US can take unilateral decisions on IRAQ and nobody can stop it? Why is it US dropped atom bombs on Japan and didnt get international isolation and so called league of nation was speechless? Only 1-2 days were remaining for japanese surrender and end of world war then such misery?
If you really have travelled then I wudnt need to answer such an absurd and obscure topic like "Might of UN". Paallllllleeeease Wake up! Do read news and travel little.

The UN has obligations to _all_ member countries, including India _and_ Pakistan. This means it cannot isolate Pakistan so easily, because then, by the same token, it must isolate India, and that's not too easy.

Why cant it isolate Pakistan easily? Just because US backs it? This again gives example how much UN is dependent on US! All the world knows about Pakistan now and even condemned it from atatcking India like that on KArgil and making statements like that it will use nukes if India attacks.
Father of paki nukes (AQ KHAN) has been found sharing nuclear secrets with IRAN. How can world trust such nation? What else evidence UN needs isolate Pakistan? Yu have travelled much....may be you can tell me!
And why will it isolate India? and "by same token"? What token dood? and what has India done for facing isolation? You say u r Indian and you say such fake stuff for your motherland? India has setup hospitals in war torn afghanistan and IRAQ, Helped vietnamese similarly......even cures pakistani citizns in its hospitals for free, initiates peace process each time even after another failure, donated such huge money package to Nepal and other neighbours in times of crisis...rescued Inonesians and thai people and srilankans at time Tsunami........LIST IS ENDLESS! Is that India shud get isolation for???? Enlighten me!

Indians ppl making money @1 cent show their business skills. And thats why foreign companies wanna do business in India because of reliability and good business.
Yea Indian economy is doing better but doing much better in BJPs time when violence was low. Neways Indians go abroad for making money .....agreed! But earning money there and spending here is different thing if u'll notice! Indians earn less in India and spend less with less prices of commodities. If u'll see that ratio wise then AMericans earn more....spend more too because of high prices of commodities. But still yeah Indians save less n comparison. AGain thats an internal problem for India as we discussed earlier.

eh...sorry.

Agreed! Keep quoting me!! I like that.

digitizen

11-08-2006, 07:54 PM

this is one topic which i always wanted to talk about . certtainly india is the better one . i din go through all the above posts . but here is my deal.

Sick of everyone talking america has developed a lot with in few years . who developed it native americans ???? a big no it was already developed spaniards and euopeans who settled there developed the country . where as the native americans never stood a chance . and talkabout standard of living being better than india . i will never agree with this there are places like harlem in america . india has different cultures so who ever rules the country has to take all this into consideration and dont forget we have different laws for different religions in certain things .

we have varied culture within a single state so talk about the whole country you find one culture in kanyakumari and a totally different culture in the north .
so any sarkar which comes into power should take all this into consideration . with all this problems and backlogs india has developed a lot . and india is the best place to live in this world .

Sykora

11-08-2006, 10:37 PM

Basis? Us soldiers are dying day by day there, funds are being spent on armed forces stationed in IRAQ
What were we talking about? I had to go back about 10 posts to find out :) You said that the US couldn't win the Battle of Longewala even today with advanced weaponry. And I asked you the basis for that statement. When did Iraq come into the context?

So Isreal doesnt have money huh?
Not as much as the US. Neither does the India.

What basis? Here : http://www.strategypage.com/fyeo/howtomakewar/databases/armies/default.asp . These are current figures. Open the American, South Asian, and Middle East pages and look at them side by side. The only column where India is larger than US is population. Well...look at the statistics yourself. One thing you can see is that Israel spends about 3 times less than India annually on defence. It has 10 times less GDP. Despite this, it has a higer land power and about twice as many AFV.

Nope, I can't type out the whole thing here. Go look at it yourself. Sorry.

Neways u dont think India is targeted also? If Israel is targeted by small terrorists, then India is targeted by the father of terrorists -> "Pakistan".

You seem very keen on calling Pakistan terrorists. The country of Pakistan can be called a terrorist state only if the government itself acknowledges and supports the attacks. So far as I know, there have only been headlines of "Pakistan condemns terrorist attacks" and stuff like that. Therefore, at least publicly, Pakistan is not a terrorist state. It has the unfortunate reputation of having had many terrorist within its borders, but it has tried to curb them, sadly without success. So technically, you have just as much right of calling Pakistan a terrorist state as they do of India. That's why the UN cannot isolate Pakistan alone. We are just squabbling over the same piece of land.

You say u r Indian and you say such fake stuff for your motherland?
Excuse me? What happened to the "Chillax"?

Indians ppl making money @1 cent show their business skills. And thats why foreign companies wanna do business in India because of reliability and good business.
Foreign businesses want to do business in India because labor is cheap. That is what the whole outsourcing jazz is about. Why pay an American if you can get the same job done by an Indian at a far less salary?

Why is it that US can take unilateral decisions on IRAQ and nobody can stop it?

Why indeed? Because if anyone stops the US, they will feel its displeasure most keenly. Let us say, for sake of argument, that India tries to stop the US from going to war. They even are willing to attack the US to stop them. What will US do? Not only will it bring the full force of its army to bear, it will also fight by information warfare. All American companies will immediately cease contacts with India. American companies will withdraw merchandise from the Indian market. They will fire all Indian employees. Thousands will be left jobless. They will seize the assets of Indian companies outside. They will block foreign trade to India.

This is obviously a worst case scenario. But you must realize one thing. No single country alone can hope to attack the US, and win. Only many countries together can do that, and that itself is an uncertainty.

this is one topic which i always wanted to talk about .
Good. Talk then, and make sure you have some fun while you're at it.

certtainly india is the better one . i din go through all the above posts . but here is my deal.
*sigh* I'm not going to argue with you if it means that I have to repeat everything I've said already.

i will never agree with this there are places like harlem in america
Definitely, there are places like Harlem in US. But not as many as in India.

As far as living is concerned, there are basically different sets of problems in India and US. It's just a question of which set of problems you'd rather tackle.

mediator

12-08-2006, 08:29 AM

What were we talking about? I had to go back about 10 posts to find out You said that the US couldn't win the Battle of Longewala even today with advanced weaponry. And I asked you the basis for that statement. When did Iraq come into the context?

Why did u go all the way back 10 posts? If u had read my post correctly u wud have saved urself of such burden. I didnt say "US couldn't win the Battle of Longewala"......read it again! I just gave comparison and that US cudnt complete even one of its aim of IRAQ or OSAMA still !

What basis? Here : http://www.strategypage.com/fyeo/how...es/default.asp . These are current figures. Open the American, South Asian, and Middle East pages and look at them side by side. The only column where India is larger than US is population. Well...look at the statistics yourself. One thing you can see is that Israel spends about 3 times less than India annually on defence. It has 10 times less GDP. Despite this, it has a higer land power and about twice as many AFV.

On the top of that page somewhere below "armed forces of the world".....itself is written "Data current to 2002-2003"!! ANd its about to be 2007!! Again I beg u to read news papers and updated miliary reports. I say it again n again but u still dont consider my simple request. I ope i dont have to repeat. Likewise I can direct u to page 30 yrs ago.....will consider that as news??

You seem very keen on calling Pakistan terrorists. The country of Pakistan can be called a terrorist state only if the government itself acknowledges and supports the attacks. So far as I know, there have only been headlines of "Pakistan condemns terrorist attacks" and stuff like that. Therefore, at least publicly, Pakistan is not a terrorist state. It has the unfortunate reputation of having had many terrorist within its borders, but it has tried to curb them, sadly without success. So technically, you have just as much right of calling Pakistan a terrorist state as they do of India. That's why the UN cannot isolate Pakistan alone. We are just squabbling over the same piece of land.

Hmmm.....seems ur a paki fan! There was a separate thread on this one after 7/11 mumbai attacks. But nobody there seemed to be interested to debate with me. Neways If a kidnapper/murderer/raper says he is innocent what will u do? Allow him to leave even if u have ample evidence against him??
Neways not Im only keen the world is keener to call it a terrorist nation. All the terrorist are majorly trained in pakistan under ISI support. Even US has evidence for it....will u ask the source now? Read newspapers and TV channels. U travelled much of world? Then travel to pakistan too if u have guts ? And if u cant travel there tell me a simple for y u cant or dont want to! A woman doctor was raped in Pakistan and what Musharraf said? I think u didnt read this one! Go ahead open old newspapers and read it!

Foreign businesses want to do business in India because labor is cheap. That is what the whole outsourcing jazz is about. Why pay an American if you can get the same job done by an Indian at a far less salary?

Again u mixed up thing! Working and spending in one country is different from working in one and spending in another. i wrote that....u didnt read that I think. Do americans work in India?? If yes, how many? Indians are given equal wages compared to Americans in US. I shudnt be telling u this....coz u travelled far and wide. My friends uncle is in US and earns $5000 pm as compared to $2000 on average for an american. So indian wage cheaper then?
U shudnt have mixed outsourcing with cheap labour! If Indians are given cheap wages abroad they wont go in first place. Why do they wanna go abroad? Higher wages? Think!
U shud say americans wanna do business in India because of cheaper labour, hardworkers and skilled talent.
Bush himself warned amercians to work hard or "Indians and CHinese will get ur jobs".

Why indeed? Because if anyone stops the US, they will feel its displeasure most keenly. Let us say, for sake of argument, that India tries to stop the US from going to war. They even are willing to attack the US to stop them. What will US do? Not only will it bring the full force of its army to bear, it will also fight by information warfare. All American companies will immediately cease contacts with India. American companies will withdraw merchandise from the Indian market. They will fire all Indian employees. Thousands will be left jobless. They will seize the assets of Indian companies outside. They will block foreign trade to India.

U urself indirectly are telling how useless UN is then.

This is obviously a worst case scenario. But you must realize one thing. No single country alone can hope to attack the US, and win

Russia can.......and i can bet on it. but it doesnt have the economy to support it.

*sigh* I'm not going to argue with you if it means that I have to repeat everything I've said already.

Similarly u read my posts from 7/11 thread first or i'l have to repeat the whole thing for calling paki a terrorist nation.

Sykora

12-08-2006, 08:50 AM

What @ssdivisiongermany1933 meant was.... that India was so brilliant and that too 35 yrs ago....that it kicked paki @rse with such courage and mind. And US cudnt do it today also with advanced weaponry.
On what basis do you say that?
That's what you said. What is this about Iraq? If you're referring to Iraq when you say "do it today", be more specific.

I just gave comparison and that US cudnt complete even one of its aim of IRAQ or OSAMA still !
Now who's not reading? I said US's objective was Saddam. And they did get Saddam.

Again I beg u to read news papers and updated miliary reports.
Since you're having so much fun disputing statistics I provide, you give me the current numbers, then we'll talk.

Hmmm.....seems ur a paki fan!
Nonsense. I am a citizen of the world.

Neways If a kidnapper/murderer/raper says he is innocent what will u do? Allow him to leave even if u have ample evidence against him??
No, but only if the judge is unbiased. In dealing with affairs between Pakistan and India, you call neither India, nor Pakistan, an unbiased judge.

If Indians are given cheap wages abroad they wont go in first place. Why do they wanna go abroad? Higher wages? Think!
Now you think again. I meant businesses want to do business _in_ India. Because the standard of living is lower here, things cost less here, so companies can charge less here. That does not apply to Indians working overseas.

U urself indirectly are telling how useless UN is then.
To some extent yes, because that's what happens if you have a super power -- It doesn't listen. But answer this : Why doesn't India right now, invade Pakistan and recapture the land? As you said, they have ample evidence against them. Why are they not doing it?

Similarly u read my posts from 7/11 thread first or i'l have to repeat the whole thing for calling paki a terrorist nation.
I wasn't talking to you. I have enough trouble going back over the posts in this thread, let alone going to another thread.

cyberpyrate

12-08-2006, 09:05 AM

The problem is entirely the people of india.

it is us who vote for the government and to a extent we help corruption rise.How many times have we tried to bribe a traffic cop to avoid the fine and the hassle of going to the 'THANNA' to get our liscence?

Sykora

12-08-2006, 09:19 AM

I suppose you could say that. What we should really try to do is to create a situation where following the rules is more profitable than being corrupt.

akshayt

12-08-2006, 10:19 AM

Avg standard of living is higher in America.
Your standard of living is higher in India. This means that educated and well off people are better off in India while America's common man is better off than India's common man.

eg: An engineer earns say 100,000$ over there. India : America PPC ratio is 1:8, what you buy in India in Re.1 comes for Rs.8 over there on average or maybe Rs.5, not fully sure.
Where an engineer over here can earn even 18lac an annum, that is more compared to 5-6lacs in America. The thing is that the in those 5-6lacs he can afford a home etc where in India 18lac is not enough to buy a home confortably, you loose years of money where as in America you only loose 1yrs' money

QwertyManiac

12-08-2006, 12:26 PM

Quote fights are read only by the quoters :D

mediator

12-08-2006, 12:52 PM

Now who's not reading? I said US's objective was Saddam. And they did get Saddam.

Do u really think US objective was Saddam? THere were no WMDs found in IRAQ. Then why is it US is not freeing Saddam? Even his sons were killed in IRAQ. Why is UN not doing anything now? Why American forces are still stationed in IRAQ?

Since you're having so much fun disputing statistics I provide, you give me the current numbers, then we'll talk.

Well i cant spoon feed u by searching the net and giving u details or links. Why dont u read news papers or TV channels? Is it something so hard I urged u for? If u want current numbers go ahead to the feedback sections of military sites.
You are asking like a child who want all the work done before last day of examination and doesnt want to read throughout the year. Well if u wanna link I can make a website and post a link to that. But will need a lotta time for that.

Nonsense. I am a citizen of the world.

Great!

In dealing with affairs between Pakistan and India, you call neither India, nor Pakistan, an unbiased judge.

Cool! U r the first one in the whole forums who is openly defending terrorists! What affairs? Kashmir ? I already talked abt it! and what affairs can be there if Paki keeps on breaking each treaty like the one it broke by attacking on kargil?
So many attacks in India.....mumbai blasts,airplane hijack (kandahar),airplane hijack of US (9/11). delhi blasts on diwali, blasts in Srinagar, parliament atatcks...list is endless. All have evidence pointing to pakistan. India just asked Pakistan to destroy these militants and even gave location for it......like giving step by step point to a child who is not listening and teacher doing all effort. And still u favour Pakistan? U love Pakistan?
And u didnt answer mah question. Given all the funds,high wages and all the pleasures of life will u still settle in Pakistan with ur family?

Now you think again. I meant businesses want to do business _in_ India. Because the standard of living is lower here, things cost less here, so companies can charge less here.

I also wrote that if wages are less here comparatively, then prices of commodities are also less here and by same margin. Didnt u get that? If 1/300 part of a wage of an american is spent on buying a chocolate then the same is true for an Indian in India.

That does not apply to Indians working overseas.

But Indians still get same wage as american counterpart in US. Why didnt u quote this one? PLEASE QUOTE me completely and not just the points in which u may find a flaw. See .......I'm covering u completely.

But answer this : Why doesn't India right now, invade Pakistan and recapture the land? As you said, they have ample evidence against them. Why are they not doing it?

Well thats because of the stupid leadership in our country. See.....how Pakistan was when attack on parliament was held. Musharraf's face was all covered with sweat in each interview after that. Yea I agree US tried to interfere and asked India to excercise restraint. But not only US asked .....the whole world....every nation in the world urged INdia at that time to calm down. If US alone wud have asked....I dont think India wud have calmed down. Even India's biggest friend Russia urged India to calm down at that time.
But seriously pakistan shud have been toast at that time....atleast terrorists wud not have guts or support to strike mumbai,delhi,srinagar like that then.

Do u really think India listens to US? Well during present era I cant say statically during this stupid govt.....but India previously....India didnt signed proliferation treaty,didnt send troops to Iraq and many more. US knows India can find alternatives therefore wants Indian company. It cant pressurise India in anyway. Well it can pressurise the UPA govt coz all the leaders are stupid and cowards.

And Please try to QUOTE me completely!

Quote fights are read only by the quoters

Atleast tell who's winning? Huh...just kidding!

QwertyManiac

12-08-2006, 01:04 PM

Who cares who wins, we eventually are at a loss here.

gxsaurav

12-08-2006, 01:25 PM

This thread is still going...lol

Anyway, since I m Indian, so India rox, however one thing for sure:mrgreen:

USA girls rock , we need open minded community like that in India too. Despite of having the largest population in the world, one most important thing sex education sux here

Tax system is much better in USA then India, people there want to pay taxes on time, it's like their duty, but in india nobady cares, except for the educated ones, however Tax rate in India is far better then in USA, they just exploit

ssdivisiongermany1933

12-08-2006, 01:42 PM

US is enjoying it's technology power stolen from Nazi germany after defeat of hitler .Even russians are better than their counterpart Americans .they launched first space station "Mir" and USA didn't even understand what space station is . The american Apollo programme was headed by Nazi scientist but was kicked away by US after programme was a sucess . Russians defeated Nazis otherwise the we could be have writing and speaking the german language and a United country was there in europe i.e "Germany" .The current cruise missiles are the descendent of V2 made in germany and there is lot of german technology .Americans didn't created anything they all got from others . and INdia much better than America .America is digging it's grave by irritating Arabs . Arabs showed their power in 9/11 . though i don't support it . US is fool . even in vietnam it was kicked very badly . US a looser . did it got USama and able to destroy al-qaida .

Sykora

12-08-2006, 07:08 PM

Do u really think US objective was Saddam? THere were no WMDs found in IRAQ. Then why is it US is not freeing Saddam?
Their _official_ objective was Saddam. Evidently he is being held for a trial on war crimes :) I am not saying what they did was right, nor am I trying to justify what they did. I'm just stating that for whatever reason, they did take Iraq. This proves their military might to some extent.

Well i cant spoon feed u by searching the net and giving u details or links
That's a very convenient way to say that you can't find any. I did research on the net and found links to, although not very recent, recent enough for our arguments. You are dismissing them as if they have changed drastically within the last few years. The changes are gradual for the most part, except in extreme situations like when somebody develops the atom bomb for the first time.

But will need a lotta time for that.
I'll wait.

Cool! U r the first one in the whole forums who is openly defending terrorists!
That's the same way it will seem to you. I am trying to put both sides into perspective. If you're so biased that you can't listen to a semblance of a neutral view, then I can't convince you, and won't bother trying.

All have evidence pointing to pakistan.
But India isn't doing anything is it? Is it trying to convince the UN or other major powers that Pakistan is a threat? Is it bringing up more firepower to the loc in order to prevent further attacks by pakistan? Why did it calm down after every world country told it to? If the evidence is clear, why should it excercise restraint?

And u didnt answer mah question. Given all the funds,high wages and all the pleasures of life will u still settle in Pakistan with ur family?
Of course not. Because I'll be going to the US :)

I also wrote that if wages are less here comparatively, then prices of commodities are also less here and by same margin. Didnt u get that? If 1/300 part of a wage of an american is spent on buying a chocolate then the same is true for an Indian in India.

An american in america spends the same fraction on a particualr commodity as an Indian in India. But if someone earns his money in america, while living in India, then that person is significantly better off than an indian in india. This is why many NRIs are returning to India after retirement. Because they have a large amount of savings _in dollars_, which when changed into rupees, is an enormous sum, approximately 46 times as much.

Who cares who wins, we eventually are at a loss here.
Actually we are all winners, because we broaden our horizons on an _extremely_ murky topic : international politics.

US is enjoying it's technology power stolen from Nazi germany after defeat of hitler .Even russians are better than their counterpart Americans .they launched first space station "Mir" and USA didn't even understand what space station is . The american Apollo programme was headed by Nazi scientist but was kicked away by US after programme was a sucess . Russians defeated Nazis otherwise the we could be have writing and speaking the german language and a United country was there in europe i.e "Germany" .The current cruise missiles are the descendent of V2 made in germany and there is lot of german technology .Americans didn't created anything they all got from others . and INdia much better than America .America is digging it's grave by irritating Arabs . Arabs showed their power in 9/11 . though i don't support it . US is fool . even in vietnam it was kicked very badly . US a looser . did it got USama and able to destroy al-qaida .
The Germans were brilliant, no doubt about it. However, no matter which means they use to get their technology, US does get it. That indicates certain mental ability.

nix

12-08-2006, 07:41 PM

^^i agree....survival of the fittest.

mediator

12-08-2006, 09:47 PM

This proves their military might to some extent.

Yeah to some extent only. They can only take down only small and powerless countries like vietnam and IRAQ. They have no guts to take down North Korea which openly threatens them. But India took down a competitor 35 yrs ago which is no match for us now.

That's a very convenient way to say that you can't find any. I did research on the net and found links to, although not very recent, recent enough for our arguments. You are dismissing them as if they have changed drastically within the last few years. The changes are gradual for the most part, except in extreme situations like when somebody develops the atom bomb for the first time.

Seems like u have a lotta time to search endlessly on the net to prove ur word in debate regardless whether the pages are obsolete or by some person instead of armed forces themselves.
Its the same case when 2 mathematicians A and B are debating on some formula and A is constantly trying to tell B to learn the existing facts and theorams first and solve latest problems first........ and B is giving A the links in books giving obsolete examples and saying these are the real things.

Dood I just cant understand why u r so stubborn about the links? Is ur whole personal world based "Online"? Cant u read latest military reports or atleast read newspapers/Tv channels. I tell a very popular newspaper "HINDU".....it gives army reports once or twice in a week. Read it.
Is it something hard I asked u for?
I dunno what will u do if u debate in face to face in real world. Will u give links to websites then also? Is there hope that u wud try to get updated details from reliable sources and say that this updated news from this newspaper on this this date?

I'll wait.

I thought so...u have all the time in the world to wait! Then keep waiting ....I'll make a link to my website...when I'll have time to satisfy ur "link" wish.

That's the same way it will seem to you. I am trying to put both sides into perspective. If you're so biased that you can't listen to a semblance of a neutral view, then I can't convince you, and won't bother trying.

Why? I'm trying to convince u. Trying to spoon feed u with every fact available to me!! And telling u again n again like 8 times now to have references like reliable news sources.
Neways U going US right? Try to convince americans too!!

But India isn't doing anything is it? Why did it calm down after every world country told it to? If the evidence is clear, why should it excercise restraint?

Again i'll have to spoon feed u with some facts! U think India didnt do anything? Why are seeing so much isolation and trouble at airports and everyplace else paki nationals are facing now? India dont need to do anything except take down militants coz as u see pakistan spends major part on training its jaahil jehadis. As a result pakistan's economy as can see is on downswing as in a terrible mess. A US scholar predicts Pakistan will disintegrate in next 10-20 yrs. What will pakistan do when it wont have economy to back military?
U can urself compare how much miser and poor pakistan has become since 1947 and India rising constantly. And u think India isnt doing anything. India is intelligent and knows where it'll hurt pakistan the most.

Is it trying to convince the UN or other major powers that Pakistan is a threat?

It has already proved to whole world and doesnt need to prove to puppet organization to do so. Neways yeah it has proved to US....so indirectly UN to.

Is it bringing up more firepower to the loc in order to prevent further attacks by pakistan?

U urself saying "further attacks by paskistan"....and u need unbiased view? Neways Pakistan cant attack India now....but India is doing enough to thwart the proxy war Pakistan is engaged in. Now dont ask what proxy war is!

Of course not. Because I'll be going to the US

Given Pakistan as only choice and no US. Then y wont u? U seem to like pakistan and trying hard to defend pakistan like a paki national with all absurd link and needing continous spoon feeding with facts.
Ur saying like that paki foreign minister who says paki searched the house of daewood and others only when India gave his hideout.

An american in america spends the same fraction on a particualr commodity as an Indian in India. But if someone earns his money in america, while living in India, then that person is significantly better off than an indian in india. This is why many NRIs are returning to India after retirement. Because they have a large amount of savings _in dollars_, which when changed into rupees, is an enormous sum, approximately 46 times as much.

Agreed! But again I told u thats a different issue.

The Germans were brilliant, no doubt about it. However, no matter which means they use to get their technology, US does get it. That indicates certain mental ability.

Agreed! US is a thief! Germans and Russians are orginals !!

Sykora

12-08-2006, 10:43 PM

You seem to be using the phrase "spoon feeding" quite a lot. Yes, I do read newspapers. I have seen army reports. What I haven't seen are detailed statistics. That kind of thing is found only in a) a library b) On the internet. Which one will you choose? No newspaper will give statistics to answer the question "Who will win an all out war between India and Pakistan?" So don't tell me to go read the newspapers/watch TV. I've done all that.

Why are seeing so much isolation and trouble at airports and everyplace else paki nationals are facing now?
You said Pakistan broke a treaty when it attacked Kargil. Why doesn't India mount a military offensive back instead of harrassing pakistani nationals, who _may_ be innocent?

Seems like u have a lotta time to search endlessly on the net to prove ur word in debate regardless whether the pages are obsolete or by some person instead of armed forces themselves.
1) Searching for information is not hard at all, I can't believe you've spent so much time and still not learnt to type search phrases in google. I got my statistics within seconds of typing "Who has the largest army in the world?" in google.
2) Do you really think The Armed forces themselves would release accurate data about their own operations? Grow up. It's giving your enemy intelligence on a silver platter.

It has already proved to whole world
Just answer one question : What is being done about Pakistan?

U seem to like pakistan and trying hard to defend pakistan like a paki national with all absurd link and needing continous spoon feeding with facts
I already addressed this.

mediator

13-08-2006, 12:10 AM

You seem to be using the phrase "spoon feeding" quite a lot

Thats coz u leave me no choice but to give all the facts for ur statements and even to prove Pakistan a terrorist country....which is a fact itself now!

What I haven't seen are detailed statistics.

Then us must not be reading properly. On contrary Newspapers do give facts and news channels too. Didnt u read the article that came 2-3 times now in several news papers comparing Indian and PAki military might? Now dont say which newspaper and when.....coz that will be "Spoon feeding again"!

That kind of thing is found only in a) a library b) On the internet.

Of course not! Where does news originate from? Tv channels give live news! And from this only it goes to internet. On contrary, Library doesnt give u news! It is best for refreshing history etc.

You said Pakistan broke a treaty when it attacked Kargil. Why doesn't India mount a military offensive back instead of harrassing pakistani nationals, who _may_ be innocent?

My GODDDDD!! Do u READ my posts correctly? Or just start writing after seeing the line which interests u the most?

And why will it isolate India? and "by same token"? What token dood? and what has India done for facing isolation? You say u r Indian and you say such fake stuff for your motherland? India has setup hospitals in war torn afghanistan and IRAQ, Helped vietnamese similarly......even cures pakistani citizns in its hospitals for free, initiates peace process each time even after another failure, donated such huge money package to Nepal and other neighbours in times of crisis...rescued Inonesians and thai people and srilankans at time Tsunami........LIST IS ENDLESS! Is that India shud get isolation for???? Enlighten me!

Seen this before? Does this refreshes u? Are trying to test my patience? Cant u read properly or having some problem reading?

Again i'll have to spoon feed u with some facts! U think India didnt do anything? Why are seeing so much isolation and trouble at airports and everyplace else paki nationals are facing now? India dont need to do anything except take down militants coz as u see pakistan spends major part on training its jaahil jehadis. As a result pakistan's economy as can see is on downswing as in a terrible mess. A US scholar predicts Pakistan will disintegrate in next 10-20 yrs. What will pakistan do when it wont have economy to back military?
U can urself compare how much miser and poor pakistan has become since 1947 and India rising constantly. And u think India isnt doing anything. India is intelligent and knows where it'll hurt pakistan the most.

This was from my previous post? And u still say why India doesnt attack pakistan? Do u ask same question twice in ur classes also?

And India treating badly to paki citizens? "Jal" paki band got famous here. "Paki national" got first prize in "Great Indian Laughter Challenge"......Paki nationals treated for free in India. What de heck..again IM "Spoon feeding u a lot"! Why dont paki nationals get famous there....why cant they stay outta India. On one hand they wanna get famous here and on other wanna destroy India. Are u still unbiased? Are u still a paki fan? It seems ur not an Indian after all......So much "Spoon feeding" i done and still u cant wake up. Indians are smart and intelligent who can analyse quickly and learn such facts. But I have to post more than twice for u!
Neways give me one example where a Paki national was harrased in India!

I got my statistics within seconds of typing "Who has the largest army in the world?" in google.

Hmmm.....Did I said anything different dear? Do u have problem reading what I write? I myself said India has second largest army in world....well u can find this on Net. U have enough time I see. Search for this also then.
Neways what did u find? Who has the largest army? and dont say US! That wud be hilarious!

Do you really think The Armed forces themselves would release accurate data about their own operations?

U definetily have reading problem. I think thats why u read once in 2 yrs like ur link. I didnt say data abt their OPERATIONS!! That was hilarious! Even a child can make that out from this post of urs! OPERATIONS......MY GOD....nice one!!

Go back again n read carefully line by line......all my posts. Then U'll save me time from rewriting the already posted stuff again.

Just answer one question : What is being done about Pakistan?

U travelled far n wide. Isnt it? U tell? Ur answer lies in my current post which also gives a link to my previous post. Because of your inablity to read carefully I had to write that twice for u! Are u making me write that again? That will be thrice....u'll break all the records then!! Are u an Indian .... coz no Indian has such record!

I already addressed this.

U didnt need to!! Neways are trying to avoid something??

Chill dood read my posts carefully line by line, letter by letter and save me from rewriting!!

E-PEACE!!

Sykora

13-08-2006, 08:47 AM

Thats coz u leave me no choice but to give all the facts for ur statements and even to prove Pakistan a terrorist country....
I leave you no choice...but yet you do not give the facts, calling it "spoon feeding".

So don't tell me to go read the newspapers/watch TV. I've done all that.
Then us must not be reading properly.
If I don't get the information you say is there, then I'm not reading properly, is that it?

coz that will be "Spoon feeding again"!
So much "Spoon feeding" i done
First you say that you aren't spoon feeding me. Then you say that you are spoon feeding me. Make up your mind.

I myself said India has second largest army in world....well u can find this on Net. U have enough time I see. Search for this also then.
I already did search. About 3 posts back. I found that you are wrong. Without searching for yourself, you're disputing my facts.

Who has the largest army? and dont say US! That wud be hilarious!
I have been saying in almost every one of my posts that the US has the most technologically advanced army in the world. Who's not reading? And why would it be hilarious? Because you don't agree?

Why are seeing so much isolation and trouble at airports and everyplace else paki nationals are facing now?
Neways give me one example where a Paki national was harrased in India!
Well?

Are u still unbiased?
Yes.

Are u still a paki fan?
Never was. You're jumping to conclusions. Evidently if I am unbiased, I must be a paki fan, because it is heresy to speak as if pakistanis are moderately blameless.

U definetily have reading problem. I think thats why u read once in 2 yrs like ur link. I didnt say data abt their OPERATIONS!! That was hilarious! Even a child can make that out from this post of urs! OPERATIONS......MY GOD....nice one!!
Why are you hinging on the word "Operations"? I merely said that the military of any country, will not give up to date statistics because it could be used against them. The only complete statistics you find are those which are a couple of years old. Instead of telling me your views on that, you harp on about the word "operations".

Indians are smart and intelligent who can analyse quickly and learn such facts. But I have to post more than twice for u!
Yes, you are posting everything twice. Even thrice, in some places. But why? Because you have nothing new to say. You keep telling me to go read the newspapers, I say that I have done that and you don't believe me. What else can you do but post the same stuff over and over again?

Anyway, I think we have exhausted the possibilities of this discussion. It's evident that I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me. Why don't we leave it that? It's been nice arguing with you on this topic, mediator.

Until the next Fight Club debate,

mediator

13-08-2006, 11:21 AM

Anyway, I think we have exhausted the possibilities of this discussion. It's evident that I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me. Why don't we leave it that? It's been nice arguing with you on this topic, mediator.

Until the next Fight Club debate,

Leaving so soon? Cmon lets argue a little more. R u avoiding something?

I leave you no choice...but yet you do not give the facts, calling it "spoon feeding".

Dood....How much more facts u want for calling paki a terrorist country?

First you say that you aren't spoon feeding me. Then you say that you are spoon feeding me. Make up your mind.

Huh? When did i say That I'm not spoon feeding u? Quote thta text of mine if it exists!! Waiting.......
I am constantly "Spoon feeding" u dear....like a teacher spoon feeding to a boy who doesnt wanna read properly or listen properly

If I don't get the information you say is there, then I'm not reading properly, is that it?

Do I have to post thrice now to make u see it? Please read ....pallleease.....u'll decrease Indian repo in US like this when u go there.

I already did search. About 3 posts back. I found that you are wrong. Without searching for yourself, you're disputing my facts.

Ur facts? U published that page? And given wrong facts? After ur constant request I did search a lot but didnt find any page except urs! So I think its really ur fact! As u urself said no army gives info abt its "OPERATION".

I have been saying in almost every one of my posts that the US has the most technologically advanced army in the world. Who's not reading? And why would it be hilarious? Because you don't agree?

Here we go....now u have classification problem toooooo!! ANd did i say nething different about US army? I think i'm debating with child now!
US doesnt have largest army! Now do I have to "spoon feed" u with definition of largest army? and its difference with technologically advanced?
U debate with me quite endlessly....which I appreciate and after so long u say such dumb stuff and making me rewrite again n again.

Well?

What well? Give an example i said! U dont have a word to support to support ur false statement like harrasing paki national....MY GOD! India initiates peace process each time and u say that yet again?

Well i give u example where Indian nationals are harrassed. The news is 2-3 days old from Times of India. Indian civilians who accidently cross border and miltary men who r captured there....meet with 3rd degree torture. There eyes balls are taen away and punctured.....then their linbs r destroyed one by one and finally the man is shot dead!
That kinda treatment is not given even to paki military men.

Are u still unbiased?

Yes.

Anyone can make out that ur not Indian after all after such debate! and still trying to defend terrorists. Nice....keep defending PAkis! U'll leave peacefully then in US.

Neways give me some points where u may keep urself unbiased for Pakis!!

Why are you hinging on the word "Operations"? I merely said that the military of any country, will not give up to date statistics because it could be used against them. The only complete statistics you find are those which are a couple of years old. Instead of telling me your views on that, you harp on about the word "operations".

Agreed...So u shud have said data statistics instead of "OPERATIONS". Military may give a few details about the type of weoponry it possesses but will not ever reveal abt its operation! Now u have writing problem toooo?

Please I urge u to read correctly first, Define ur thoughts , classify them correctly and write them correctly!!

Yes, you are posting everything twice. Even thrice, in some places. But why?

Coz u r asking same thing more than twice. I wrote that...u didnt read that again? I cant answer anything different for a same question being asked again n again. And ur not quoting me completely either! I told u to do so!

That wud help u read properly and will save u to question samething more than twice now!

You keep telling me to go read the newspapers, I say that I have done that and you don't believe me.

How can I believe u. U write so much contradicting points to ur statements. Already posted a few of ur contradicting pts in my previous posts.
U say military doesnt reveal its military statistics and u post that link....the only link that exists on web. And that doesnt look professional either. May be its made by u all alone!

Neways quote all my unquoted points from all my previous posts in ur next post. U'll find some more questions to ask! I know u wont be able to question them but still try to quote them and write "Agreed" after that!

Sykora

13-08-2006, 11:51 AM

R u avoiding something?
Yup. Arguments that fall on deaf ears and go nowhere.

Do you read the newspapers? : http://www.hindu.com/2006/08/12/stories/2006081208000100.htm

Why are seeing so much isolation and trouble at airports and everyplace else paki nationals are facing now?

Neways give me one example where a Paki national was harrased in India!

Well?

What well? Give an example i said! U dont have a word to support to support ur false statement like harrasing paki national
Looks like you are not reading my posts either. First you say that paki nationals are facing much trouble and isolation at airports and everywhere. Then you say that aren't. You are contradicting yourself. I have your own word for it.

Coz u r asking same thing more than twice.
Again you are not quoting me in entirety. I said that you have nothing new to say, and that's why you are saying the same thing again and again. I am not asking you more than twice for the same thing. I am asking you for new information, which you are not giving, tellling me to go find it for myself. Why can't you give me the information? Is it so hard? As you said, if it does exist, then surely you can tell me where. All newspapers have websites, and search engines. Look them up.

Anyone can make out that ur not Indian after all after such debate! and still trying to defend terrorists. Nice....keep defending PAkis! U'll leave peacefully then in US.
I thought we agreed not to make personal remarks. Evidently you didn't read, or forgot.

How can I believe u.
Because we both want the truth. If you are not willing to believe me, no matter how much I say, well...I told you we exhausted the possibilities of this argument.

The news is 2-3 days old from Times of India. Indian civilians who accidently cross border and miltary men who r captured there....meet with 3rd degree torture. There eyes balls are taen away and punctured.....then their linbs r destroyed one by one and finally the man is shot dead!

Here is the search page, find the article. I couldn't find it. : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/
If indians know that Pakistan is an unruly country giving horrendous treatment to indian nationals, what are they doing crossing the border?

mediator

13-08-2006, 01:29 PM

Looks like you are not reading my posts either. First you say that paki nationals are facing much trouble and isolation at airports and everywhere. Then you say that aren't. You are contradicting yourself. I have your own word for it.

DO u term extreme checkup of Paki nationals at airports etc as "harrasment"? My GOD!! When u'll go to US and will checked up extremely...will u call Indian embassy there and say that ur were harrassed? Again ur facing classification problem!

I thought we agreed not to make personal remarks. Evidently you didn't read, or forgot.

And what's so personal in this?

If indians know that Pakistan is an unruly country giving horrendous treatment to indian nationals, what are they doing crossing the border?

ANd who do u think these Indians are? Rich,literate ppl? They basically village people who ignorant of such stuff! Cmon man dont u know such basic thing! Ur saying like Indians wanna cross the border intentionally.

Again you are not quoting me in entirety. I said that you have nothing new to say, and that's why you are saying the same thing again and again. I am not asking you more than twice for the same thing.

So u agree u are asking twice for the same thing.Atlast u confessed!!

Again you are not quoting me in entirety. I said that you have nothing new to say, and that's why you are saying the same thing again and again.

Well I'm! What new will I say? Shud I change the topic and say something different? Well I'm not saying samething again...but answering ur stupid same questions again and again!
Well if u ask 2+3 = ? then I cant answer that differently each time can I?Can you? Well u can ask that q again n again like ur doing throughout the posts.....Like why ISnt "India isnt attacking pakistan then"!!

Why can't you give me the information? Is it so hard? As you said, if it does exist, then surely you can tell me where. All newspapers have websites, and search engines. Look them up.

Again? What abt paki being terorist? Again "spoon feed" you now? U r saying like give a website that proves 2+3=5, And u wont believe until I do so!
Hilarious!

Do you read the newspapers? : http://www.hindu.com/2006/08/12/stor...1208000100.htm

The report says "Unconfirmed reports said seven people, including two Britons, were arrested "some days ago" in Karachi and Lahore."
If the above incident happened do u know what wud have happened to Pakistan! Analyse ur thoughts now and classify them. If the same thing was to be happened for India instead UK and US...Do u think that musharraf freak wud tell anybody?

I told you we exhausted the possibilities of this argument.

Well this argument may have more possibilities. But u urself is having reading,writing,classifying problems and cant question something different. Thats why I think u r asking samething again n again as I replied to all ur posts already!

Read,Write,classify correctly and Save me from rewriting by doing so. Thats all I ask from u! Is it really that hard?

Sykora

13-08-2006, 02:16 PM

You really think International politics is as straightforward 2+3=5 don't you? Or all those other analogies you've given like Mathematicians and Teachers and Students and babies and all that. It's not. If that's the dream you're living in, wake up.

ANd who do u think these Indians are? Rich,literate ppl? They basically village people who ignorant of such stuff! Cmon man dont u know such basic thing! Ur saying like Indians wanna cross the border intentionally.

Finally we come to the point which I've been trying to make. Instead of spending so much on defence and offence, the indian government should devote resources to educating these people, who have the capacity to make such mistakes such as cross the border into a hostile country.

Again? What abt paki being terorist? Again "spoon feed" you now?
No. This time, I spoon fed you. You told me about an article in the India Times, so I found the site, and asked you to find the article, because I couldn't. You still haven't found the article. I am trying to present my arguments clearly, giving proper evidence. You asked before once how I would argue in a real debate. I would print my evidence and hand it over. You would not get anywhere if you said "Go read the newspapers, it's there everyday", or "The conclusion is obvious, all evidence is clear". If you think it is clear, you must back up your claims with evidence. As you have not done so with hard facts, instead saying "It's sooo obvious" or "My GODDDDDD you don't read anything", I cannot believe anything you say. Instead you are stressing that I am incapable of reading, classifying my thoughts and putting them down in writing, making you write the same thing again. Let me say it again, and next post quote this point : I think the reason you are posting the same thing over and over again is not because I am asking the same question more than twice, but because you have nothing more to say, no more evidence *to present here.*

I will admit that there is a lot of terrorist activity happening in Pakistan, and that there are many terrorists living in Pakistan. What I do not accept is that the Government of Pakistan is openly supporting the terrorist activity.

I showed you the report, and instead of quoting the entire passage, you quoted the one sentence which had the words "unconfirmed". Do you watch TV? Did you see the CNN-IBN report which said that 1 of the 24 arrested in Britain was an Indian working for Jet Airways? Evidently not. Keep an open mind. It may look like I'm supporting Pakistan, but I'm not. I've admitten in many places that the Indian approach to certain issues was good or intuitive, but you must have missed them.

I think we have diverted the topic however. This started out as a debate on which was better, India or US. It has turned into an India-Pakistan debate, one which, as you have forcefully pointed out and I have freely admitted, I don't have much experience in.

I believe we were discussing military might. I told you once before that unless there is a huge leap in technology, the military might of different countries usually stay in the same order. Note I said "usually", because I don't know if there are exceptions. At the end of the Cold War, the US had the most advanced military in the